"I am a fervent advocate for equal rights for men and equal responsibilities for women. I am not an opponent of egalitarian feminism, a neo-Nazi, a newcomer to working to eliminate the evils of male-bashing, or a proponent of male privilege, nor do I yearn for a return to the Neolithic Age." Hugh Nations
To this question there has been no answer!
To this question we need an answer!
From email@example.com Tue Apr 15 10:02:58 1997 Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 15:44:11 -0500 (CDT) From: hugh nations firstname.lastname@example.org
clip --- I am a fervent advocate for equal rights for men and equal responsibilities for women. I am not an opponent of egalitarian feminism, a neo-Nazi, a newcomer to working to eliminate the evils of male-bashing, or a proponent of male privilege, nor do I yearn for a return to the Neolithic Age. Semper fratres, HUGH NATIONS, esq.
Nobody is trying to deny you the right to live your life the way you describe above. But it sounds an awful lot like you are trying to tell the 85% of us North Americans who are Christians how to live our lives in a way which is completely contrary to our First Amendment Right to free exercise [of religion], in which the vow the woman takes upon marriage "to honor and obey until death do us part" is an indellible ingredient. It does not leave a bit of room for "egalitarian feminism".
If you could point to a culture or society in history, or in the world today, which has thrived with this novel ideology, it would be greatly appreciated if you could point it out. We, on the contrary, can point to a country which has had quite a few problems trying to adapt to this radical minority view -- the US. Since the 1960s when the Supreme Court crafted the concept of gender equality out of the innocent term equal protection:
2) the murder rate tripled while the "clearance rate" for murders declined from 90% to 60%
3) the value of the dollar declined almost to a quarter of its previous value by the Consumer Price Index and by 11 times by the "gold standard" (from $38/oz to $420/oz)
4) we spent more for welfare than the entire asset value of every Fortune 500 corporation and every acre of farm land combined, yet the poverty level increased from 11.1% to 15.1%
5) the percent of the world's autos supplied by the U.S. declined from 60% to 20%
6) the prison population increased four fold to a rate 4 times that of China, 8 to 10 times that of many European nations, and 14 times that of Japan
7) the average weight of an American increased 25 pounds
8) GDP per worker declined 70% by the gold standard
9) the "Personal Savings" rate declined to less than 2%, versus 25% in Japan
10) the public debt increased 8 fold AND the U.S. is the largest debtor nation in world history
11) abortions increased to more than 1.6 million per year and STILL illegitimacy increased five fold
12) cocaine use rose 45% in spite of the "drug war"
13) criminal justice system expenditures increased 10 fold, crime increased, and we now spend more to fight crime than we do for national defense
14) the trade deficit increased from "in the black" to $123 Billion "in the red"
15) government spending as a percent of the average American's income exceeded 42%, and is rising, compared to 27% in Japan and 32% in the U.S. 3 decades ago
16) drunk driving arrests increased 5 fold while the motor vehicle fatality rate increased from 30% lower than Germany's to 45% higher
17) health services costs increased 8 fold and the paperwork required to meet government regulations costs 3% of GDP
18) SAT scores declined 75 points, putting the US in 27th place out of 31 nations in the IAEP math comparisons
19) the percent of children living without fathers increased from 12% to 39%
20) the amount of time PER DAY that children watch TV increased from 5 hours to 7 hours
21) the number of the world's Top 40 Banks which were U.S. declined from 22 to only two (with assets of $200 Billion while 24 were Japanese with assets of $10,000 Billion)
22) we have 60 times more lawyers than Japan while Japan has 4 times as many engineers
23) the ratio of manufacturing employees to government employees declined from 2.5:1 to less than 1:1
24) total US "Personal Savings" are $212 Billion while Japan has $21,000 Billion (that is $21 Trillion) just in their "Postal Savings Accounts"
24) "a 560% increase in violent crime, a 419% increase in illegitimate births, a 3000% increase in single-parent households, and a drop of almost 80 points in SAT scores." (source: The Guardian)
25) unsubstantiated child abuse reports increased 8 fold and unsubstantiated sexual abuse reports increased 28 fold
Feminism doesn't work.
Your thoughtful response is invited.
From email@example.com Tue Apr 15 11:23:39 1997 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:53:36 -0500 (CDT) From: hugh nations firstname.lastname@example.org To: Fathers Manifesto email@example.com Cc: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: Re: Egalitarian Feminism
Dear John... Unfortunately for me, the piquant response I had planned for your latest missive had to be discarded when I encountered your last sentence, requesting a thoughtful response. I will not skewer someone who makes that request. Unfortunately for you, I also find it difficult to take seriously anyone who suggests it is an appropriate marriage vow for one spouse to promise to obey the other. When I married, I sought neither lackey nor bond servant, but a partner. When I expected obedience, I turned to my dog -- and seldom got it even there, I might add. And that doesn't even begin to address the problems I had with the cat. Good luck in your quest to find an adult female, fully functional mentally, who will promise to obey you. Semper fratres, HUGH NATIONS, esq.
On Tue, 15 Apr 1997, Fathers Manifesto wrote:
Your characterization of the family (as defined by the Bible, God, and Jesus Christ) as making the mother a "lackey [or] bond servant" is poignant. Nobody wants to deny you the right to that belief.
But the 85% of us who are Christians, and the 2% who are Jewish, and the 1% who are Islam, and the Buddhists, Hindus, Confucius, Shintos, Catholics, Greek Orthodox, etc., don't share your belief that placing the father at the head of his household makes the wife a "lackey [or] bond servant" any more than Vice President Al Gore is a "lackey or bond servant" to Pres. Clinton.
On Tue, 15 Apr 1997, hugh nations wrote:
Dear John... 1) Vice President Al Gore took an oath to obey the Constitution of the United Stats, not his partner in governance; 2) I find repugnant the concept that the power of government should be used to enforce a religious vow. If such vows need enforcing, the enforcement should come from the faith; 3) I have devoted much of my life to the cause of men's liberation, John. Your intemperance, your woman-bashing, your bizarre vision that to liberate men one must enslave women is a threat to something I have spent the past quarter-century working on; 4) One other thing. I do not find the words "Christian" or "Republican" anywhere in the words "father" or "men." I am both a man and a father; please do not seek to impress upon me in those roles your bigotries and your hatreds. Semper fratres, HUGH NATIONS, ESQ.
From email@example.com Tue Apr 15 12:50:33 1997 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:36:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Fathers Manifesto firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: Egalitarian Feminism To: hugh nations email@example.com
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. 1) The vow that a wife makes before God "to honor and obey until death do us part" is more important and sacred than the oath any Vice President took to obey the Constitution. 2) Nobody is proposing that the "power of government" be used to enforce this vow, but you are avoiding the previous question "Do you think they should be denied their First Amendment right to "free exercise [of religion]" because you view it this way? " Your failure to address this question could be (mis)understood as "yes". 3) Most women do not view marriage as "enslavement" Hugh. Most women gain a 72% increase in their standard of living, and they appreciate it. Most feminists view marriage as "enlsavement", but they are a radical minority (perhaps 2% or less of the population), and we should not cater to that minority. 4) Christianity is love, Hugh, not bigotry nor hatred. It works. 2 millennia of Christianity is now threatened by several decades of "egalitarian feminism" which, if you observed the statistics attached to the first post, has proven to be disastrous. Again, thanks for your courteous reply.