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Allo genos

 

 

We should also point out to others on this forum the discovery made in Malachai 4:1 in the Greek Septuagint regarding "allo genos":

Sir Lancelot Brenton's translation of the Greek Septuagint:

http://www.ccel.org/bible/brenton/Malachi/4.html


 
KJV:  For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the ***proud***, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
 
 
Greek Septuagint:  For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the ***alien***, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

http://apostolicbible.com/downbook.htm

allogenos.jpg (84025 bytes)

The following confirmation that "allogenos" means "aliens" and not "proud" is directly from a Greek speaker whose own translations have been changed only recently from "aliens" to "proud".  Why this sudden change in the definition of an ancient Greek word which dates back 5,000 years?:

ATHENA MACKELLER <minerva24@verizon.net>

May 11, 2007 11:49 AM

Re: NIEMELA ADMITS HE NEVER STUDIED GREEK

 I was raised in a  Greek household, I learned to read, write, and speak Greek before I learned English, I have  an ancient-Greek Bible.  I have several Greek-English Lexicons, so I will consider myself fluent enough in the Greek language to enable me to give the PROPER definition of "allogenos", and it does NOT in any way, shape,  or form,  correspond to the INACCURATE ''definition'' of the translation that the kike/mamzer/jig joo "moldesley" so vehemently and INaccurately espouses......

 

"Allogenos" "allogenos"  "allos"....OTHER....."genos"....NATION, RACE

"One of ANOTHER RACE, NATION, a FOREIGNER, a STRANGER".

The Greek words "xenos", "allotrios'' also mean the same, as do the Greek words "allotrios, paroikos, heteros, parepidemos", which have various meanings, from foreigner, stranger, another of a different kind, pilgrim, or sojourner."

 

SYNONYMS for "allogenos" are "allophulos" one of ANOTHER RACE, NATION, "xenos"....stranger, foreigner, another of a different kind".

 

The ANTONYM for "allogenos" is OIKEIOS..(oikeios) which means "RELATIVE", and the word "sumpolites" "sumpolites" means fellow-citizen.

 

YiaYia

 

 

The Hebrew word from which "proud" was translated is "zed", Strong's #2086, which appears 13 times in Scripture, 12 times as "proud" and once as "presumptious".  The Greek phrase from which "alien" was translated is "allo genos", an entirely different concept than "proud".  If the Greek Septuagint was translated from the original Hebrew language, then whatever word was there could not possibly have been "zed", or it could not possibly have meant "proud". 

H2086

ze^d

zade'

From H2102; arrogant: - presumptuous, proud.

Since NONE of the original Hebrew text survives, we will never know what Hebrew phrase or word or concept the ISRAELITES considered to be "allo genos" in Greek.   The sense of this phrase is "other race", making "alien" the most likely translation.

To attempt to characterize this phrase, let's consider the following 13 verses which contain "zed":

Psa 86:14 O God, the proud are risen against me, and the assemblies of violent men have sought after my soul; and have not set thee before them.

O God, transgressors have risen up against me, and an assembly of violent men have sought my life; and have not set You before them.

Psa 119:21 Thou hast rebuked the proud that are cursed, which do err from thy commandments.

You have rebuked the proud; cursed are they that turn aside from Your commandments.

Psa 119:51 The proud have had me greatly in derision: yet have I not declined from thy law.

 

Psa 119:69 The proud have forged a lie against me: but I will keep thy precepts with my whole heart.

 

Psa 119:78 Let the proud be ashamed; for they dealt perversely with me without a cause: but I will meditate in thy precepts.

 

Psa 119:85 The proud have digged pits for me, which are not after thy law.

Transgressors told me idle tales; but not according to Your law, O Lord.

Psa 119:122 Be surety for thy servant for good: let not the proud oppress me.

 

Pro 21:24 Proud and haughty scorner is his name, who dealeth in proud wrath.

[Psalms 21 ends at verse 13 in the apostle's bible]

Isa 13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogance of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

And I will command evils for the whole world, and will visit their sins on the ungodly: and I will destroy the pride of transgressors, and will bring low the pride of the haughty.

Jer 43:2 Then spoke Azariah the son of Hoshaiah, and Johanan the son of Kareah, and all the proud men, saying unto Jeremiah, Thou speakest falsely: the LORD our God hath not sent thee to say, Go not into Egypt to sojourn there:

that Azariah son of Maasaeas spoke, and Johanan, the son of Kareah, and all the men who had spoken to Jeremiah, saying, It is false! The Lord has not sent you to us, saying, Enter not into Egypt to dwell there [note: proud is completely missing from the apostles' bible, and this chapter is not online in Brenton's translation]

Mal 3:15 And now we call the proud happy [actually, blessed]; yea, they that work wickedness are set up; yea, they that tempt God are even delivered. [note: even the KJV translated "ashar" [#833] as "blessed" 7 times, and as "happy" only twice, once in this verse and once in another verse, indicating their tendency to alter meanings of words to conceal the huge impact this verse has on the spirit and intent of the entire Holy Bible. Had they been consistent and translated it as "blessed", then they would have to question why they translated "allo genos" as "proud" rather than "aliens"--or "strangers" as Brenton translated it].

And now we pronounce strangers blessed; and all they who act unlawfully are built up; and they have resisted God, and yet have been delivered.

And now we pronounce strangers blessed; and all they who act unlawfully are built up; and they have resisted God, and yet have been delivered.

Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

For, behold, a day comes burning as an oven, and it shall consume them; and all the aliens, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that is coming shall set them on fire, saith the Lord Almighty, and there shall not be left of them root or branch.

For behold, a day comes burning as an oven, and it shall consume them; and all the aliens, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that is coming shall set them on fire, says the Lord Almighty, and there shall not be left of them root or branch.

Psa 19:13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.

And spare Your servant from the attack of strangers; if they do not gain the dominion over me, then shall I be blameless, and I shall be clear from great sin.

It's not until we get to the last verse, where this noun is changed to a pronoun, and the word "sins" is added by the translators, that we understand that the KJV translation is in error and the Greek Septuagint is correct.  When a noun is arbitrarily converted into a new meaning and the translators need to resort to adding words and thoughts which aren't there to make it fit their preconceived biases, we know they misunderstood or mistranslated this word, and the Greek Septuagint is correct.   While the Apostles' Bible is not consistent with the translation of this word in EVERY verse, this translation of Psalms 19:13 is proof enough that the word which was originally there MUST have meant "aliens" and not "proud".

 

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THE GREEK SEPTUAGINT  IS IN  THE GREEK LANGUAGE.

 

ANYONE WHO QUOTES ANY PART OF A VERSE IN ENGLISH   SAYING IT IS FROM THE GREEK SEPTUAGINT  IS  A LIAR.

 

Would you buy swamp land in Florida?

 

Well then don't listen to someone who quotes you from the  "Greek Septuagint" -- a document written in ancient Greek -- using ENGLISH words.

 

THIS IS AS PHONY AS SOMEONE TRYING TO PAY YOU WITH A   $3   BILL.

 

Those who translate the Bible into modern English, must be FLUENT in the ancient Greek and ancient Hebrew,   familiar with the CULTURE  of the day (to know what idioms and references were used to express ideas)  and   WELL-READ in the ancient language.

 

 

EVERY  RECOGNIZED TRANSLATION   REJECTS  what the Christian Identity Heretics are trying to say.

 

THERE ARE NO -- NO --  RECOGNIZED TRANSLATIONS BY QUALIFIED EXPERTS WHO AGREE WITH THE CI HERETICS.  NONE.

 

 

You can compare different translations of the same text at:

 

http://www.BibleGateway.com


EXAMPLES OF WHY AMATEURS CANNOT RE-TRANSLATE THE BIBLE IN THIS WAY:

 

You see the word "operation."  What does that mean?

 

       a)    A computer process?

 

       b)    A medical procedure?

 

       c)     A military campaign?

 

       d)     A covert intelligent action?

 

       e)    The use of a machine?

 

       f)     Driving a vehicle?

 

AN AMATEUR CANNOT LOOK AT A WORD IN THE ORIGINAL AND KNOW HOW TO TRANSLATE THAT WORD.   Only someone who is fluent in the original language AND WELL-READ IN THE CULTURE OF THE ERA can correctly translate the passage.

 

 

Jon Moseley



 

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Niemela
Sent: May 10, 2007 9:52 PM
 ?

JOHN> et.all..I was wrong when I noted that the Greek word allotrios (alien strangers) was in the Septuagint version of Malachi 4:1...It is rather the Greek word, Allogenes which does apply to kinsmen strangers...Hence the implication for these words of verse 1 could very well apply to Israelites as you noted..  I note that our alien contestant, Moseley had stated that there was no Greek/English version of the Septuagint...He apparently has not been introduced to the Lancelot Brenton Version....but, like the jews of old, they too could not face the wording of the Septuagint from old times, and as a result, they started work in 500 A.D. on a Hebrew version of the Bible...and it became the corrupted Masoretic Text....which was first given to the Pope in 913 A.D..   and now, we suffer with this Talmudic influenced rendition of the Bible....Note too, that when the quotes of the Lord and His disciples are found in the New Testament, they DO NOT FOLLOW the wording of the Masoretic Text of the SAME Bible...rather they become direct quotes from the Septuagint....JRN

----- Original Message -----

From: Jon Moseley

 

 

- Hide quoted text -

ONLY AN IDIOT WOULD DO THAT.

 

THE CONCORDANCE IS NOT A TRANSLATION.

 

YOU CANNOT READ THE GREEK SEPTUAGINT IN ENGLISH.

 

There  IS NO  Greek Septuagint in English.

 

YOU MUST READ ONE OF THE PROPER TRANSLATIONS OF THE BIBLE.

 

Jon Moseley

- Hide quoted text -

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Niemela
Sent: May 9, 2007 11:12 PM
 

John..I recommend going to the Septuagint and reading Malachi 4:1 there...It refers to "aliens" as is noted,  thus the verse is not applicable to the Israelites as is assumed. What the Septuagint Greek uses is the Greek word, "Allotrios" (see p.1130) to depict this "alien" people being referred to in Malachi 4:1...Which makes much more sense, as we know from what the Lord says about those who will be removed before the harvest, the Tares--burned as Malachi also depicts....-such a conclusion or similarity derives from what Malachi 4:1 has to say..JRN

- Hide quoted text -

----- Original Message -----

From: Jacob Israel

 

Dear Colonel,
 
Thanks for making those many great points.  I would like to clarify one point about the following observation:
 

<<<I do not think that the Greek word "allogenes" was a creation of the Septuagint translators, and this inference by your friend would imply that the Septuagint is not proper...But, it is far more accurate in its Greek which has not suffered the dramatic changes that Hebrew has gone through....>>>

It was my observation, not his, that this word was a Greek approximation of a Hebrew word which we don't know for certain what it was.  When trying to translate from one language to another, even languages which are very similar, there are always many words where there is literally no direct one to one comparison, and the concept must be approximated.  There is a Greek word, "tuphoo" [#5187] which DOES mean "proud", so if "the proud" is who Malachai 4:1 is referring to, then this should have been the word they used.
 
It was his observation that this is a combination of "allo" and "genos", that Brenton translated it as "aliens", and he speculated that it might have been translated from "nikro".   100% agreed with your concerns about how the Masoretic jews messed with Scripture, particularly when it comes to Scriptural references to race:
 
http://fathersmanifesto.net/allogenos.htm 
 
Strong's Concordance lists this word as "zed", and assigns the number "2086", which makes it appear that it doesn't have any relationship at all to "nikro", #5237 http://fathersmanifesto.net/stranger.htm
 
In looking at the context of the 13 instances of "zed" in Scripture, most of them suggest that this could ALSO mean an Israelite who was a "stranger" to another Israelite as you suggest, rather than an "alien" as Brenton suggested.  But then we come to Malachai 4:1 where it says that all the "zed" will be "burned [ ] up" according to the "LORD of hosts":
 
Malachai 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
 
If they were really just fellow Israelites who were traveling in or guests of other Israelites, why would the "LORD", want to "burn them up"?  It doesn't say that these guests or visitors were evil or had done wrong, as far as I can see.
 
If we can prove that "zed" was actually "nikro", then we can PROVE just how far the Masoretic jews twisted the Word of God.
 
Sincerely,
 
 
 
John Knight





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From: ricniemela@earthlink.net
 

John, et.al...

 

I find that your friend, Bet is a bit off in depicting the proper use and source of the Greek word, "Allogenes"...which speaks to and refers exclusively to a Kinsman, a stranger who is kin, but still a stranger to another Israelite...In Stongs Concordance, this word "allogenes", # 241, which means, according to Strongs, "foreign, not a Jew --stranger.   It is a compilation of the Greek word, "allos", #243 which translates as "else, different, another." Strongs does not associate it with race or nationality. The other half of the Greek word "Allogenes" -- "genes", is taken from the Greek word "genos", #1085 and refers to "kin" or a born country-man which is tied together to form the word "Allogenes" to depict a kinsman stranger as opposed to an alien stranger...

 

An alien individual/person is depicted in the Greek language as being an "allotrios", #245 in Strongs..which depicts it as being: "from 243, anothers, i.e.,not one's own, by extension, foreign, not akin, hostile, alien, (man's, men's), strange.

 

From Strongs we can determine that the Hebrew words for alien strangers, "nokriiy" and "Zuhr", racial strangers and alien to the nation of Israel can be directly translated into the Greek word,  "Allotrios"...properly..  

 

But, we must recognize that we are dealing with some deceit in our Bible translations, especially when we consider the grossly mistranslated Masoretic Text of our OT...

 

The original KJV has suffered from using the Masoretic Text uncorrected and this has led to considerable mistaken interpretations and doctrinal issues...  How, some would ask.. Well consider this mistranslation alone -- that of the Strangers depicted in Isaiah 56: 3 & 6 where in God is speaking and advising that the Israelties show favor to the son of the stranger...(There are a number of other similar mistaken translations)

 

If we look in the Hebrew Old Testament text of the Masorettes, we find that  they used the Hebrew word "nokriiy" for this particular stranger that Isaiah 56:3 & 6 are recording. (See Strongs) .and as a result, one would assume that God had somehow "changed" His own laws and requirements as to the Israelites and their association and relationship with alien strangers...as the assignment of the Hebrew word "nokriiy"   by the Masorettes would seem to infer that God no longer cared if the Israelites comingled with the aliens.....

 

Really, a gross error, but probably purposeful by the Jewish Masoretes in their 500 years of re-creating a Hebrew language Bible, far different than what the Greek of the Septuagint has to offer...Remember, the Septuagint was created in 285 B.C. from the Old Hebrew, sans vowels, and from the oldest texts and scrolls...Few of which were available after 70 A.D.  to the later Talmudic Masoretes who began their work in 500 A.D..They had the Greek Septuagint to use, but failed to follow its verses, as many of them were so conflicting with their own Jewish demands and hopes...and they added vowel points as well, often erroneously.. Changes to the original texts, which are proven by the OT words found quoted by Jesus and His disciples in the current NT...these translations are from the Septuagint, the Bible that Jesus used and thus, "authenticated." 

 

Now, if we go to the Greek of the Septuagint and check how these sons of the stranger in Isaiah 56 were depicted, it shows the word properly to be "allogenes", a Kinsman stranger, which would be in agreement with how God had insisted that no alien stranger be permitted near any religious functions or the temple--only a kinsman stranger was permissable, and hence we find that both the Greek and the Hebrew were quite specific in how they depicted a "stranger"..each having at least 5 different words to depict a "stranger."  The Laws were very explicit on this point, yet we find that the "Universalism" of the Catholic Church has led to the mistaken assumption that all are acceptable to God....when they are NOT!  And He has so advised!

 

This multiple wording for strangers is contrary to the English which uses only one word, "stranger" collectively..for any type of Stranger, a subterfuge which has led to such confusion..and our current multiculturalism, diversity and rampant ecumenism!!   And verses like those in Isaiah 56 improperly translated are to blame, but in the end, it is the deviant Jewish Masoretes who were responsible, and or their subsequent allies in crime.

 

I do not think that the Greek word "allogenes" was a creation of the Septuagint translators, and this inference by your friend would imply that the Septuagint is not proper...But, it is far more accurate in its Greek which has not suffered the dramatic changes that Hebrew has gone through....Remember too, that Hebrew was no longer a common language in Jesus' time...It had even died out in Jerusalem by the time that the Septuagint was written, in 285 B.C..so I would submit that we must remain tied to the Greek which was the language mostly in use during those times...  Latin, however,should not be considered as valid, and its use only adds to the confusion of translations...for example, the English word, "Gentile", taken from the Latin word " Gentilis" simply means "non-Jew."  But, somehow,  we find this word Gentile injected into the Bible as far back as Genesis!!  When Latin had not yet been formed as a language!!  Further, the word Gentile has been used as a term to depict "pagans, nation(s), heathen, another, people, a total of 557 times in the Masoretic Text...giving multiple "options" to the translators...when it really meant nation(s)...

 

Such a misuse of Latin is another of the Bible's problems and we should recognize that our Catholic friends as well as the Masoretes had their own purposes in skewing the Word....and changing doctrines..

 

Thanks for Listening...

 

JRN

 

 

 

Thanks for making those many great points.  I would like to clarify one point about the following observation:

<<<I do not think that the Greek word "allogenes" was a creation of the Septuagint translators, and this inference by your friend would imply that the Septuagint is not proper...But, it is far more accurate in its Greek which has not suffered the dramatic changes that Hebrew has gone through....>>>

It was my observation, not his, that this word was a Greek approximation of a Hebrew word which we don't know for certain what it was.  When trying to translate from one language to another, even languages which are very similar, there are always many words where there is literally no direct one to one comparison, and the concept must be approximated.  There is a Greek word, "tuphoo" [#5187] which DOES mean "proud", so if "the proud" is who Malachai 4:1 is referring to, then this should have been the word they used.
 
It was his observation that this is a combination of "allo" and "genos", that Brenton translated it as "aliens", and he speculated that it might have been translated from "nikro".   100% agreed with your concerns about how the Masoretic jews messed with Scripture, particularly when it comes to Scriptural references to race:
 
http://fathersmanifesto.net/allogenos.htm 
 
Strong's Concordance lists this word as "zed", and assigns the number "2086", which makes it appear that it doesn't have any relationship at all to "nikro", #5237 http://fathersmanifesto.net/stranger.htm
 
In looking at the context of the 13 instances of "zed" in Scripture, most of them suggest that this could ALSO mean an Israelite who was a "stranger" to another Israelite as you suggest, rather than an "alien" as Brenton suggested.  But then we come to Malachai 4:1 where it says that all the "zed" will be "burned [ ] up" according to the "LORD of hosts":
 
Malachai 4:1
For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
 
If they were really just fellow Israelites who were traveling in or guests of other Israelites, why would the "LORD", want to "burn them up"?  It doesn't say that these guests or visitors were evil or had done wrong, as far as I can see.
 
If we can prove that "zed" was actually "nikro", then we can PROVE just how far the Masoretic jews twisted the Word of God.

 

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