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Andy Anderson

 

 

 
 
You're a bit light on an effective exegesis, and heavy on the ad hominems, character assassination, and innuendos, wouldn't you say?
 
To infer that Pastor Findlay was discredited because his very conservative congregation didn't like what he said about Paul is about like criticizing Newton for observing gravity because his peers disagreed.  Even you acknowledge that normal "churches" don't even know what the House of Israel is, so this is a disingenuous argument.  Then to infer that Mrs. Muriel Schmidt has been discredited by mere association with Pastor Findlay completely undermines your credibility.
 
You didn't comment on the following quote from your "well known [but as yet unidentified] CI gospel broadcaster", so please permit me to:
 
"The most important thing which you need to understand about these people is that the reason they have no use for Christ Jesus is that they have no use for reconciliation, atonement, imputation, or justification; in short, they have no use for salvation.  And the reason they have no use for these fundamental acts is that they have no concept of personal sin or alienation from God.  In this thinking, they are Talmudic Jewish to the core.  They consider themselves by physical birth to possess covenantal relationship with the Eternal.  While they give lip service to the law of Moses, they in actuality are not trying to be saved by keeping the law of Moses, because they do not consider themselves to be in need of salvation.  This is because they do not consider themselves to be capable of sin.  These people are nothing more nor less than Pharisees.

 

Their hatred of Paul is, fundamentally, a hatred of the truth.  The teaching of Paul focuses upon the fact that every descendant of Adam requires justification, yet the law is unable to provide justification. Consequently, it is necessary for man to receive the imputation of a righteousness which is foreign to himself.  By analogy, every descendant of Adam is born hopelessly in debt.  Through keeping the law, the very best man can do is to keep from sliding further into debt; there never is a surplus with which to amortize the debt.  But in actuality, no man faithfully keeps the law, so the indebtedness always is increasing."

 
The term "hatred of Paul" is inflammatory rhetoric which nobody who can defend his position needs to resort to.  When someone spews out such rhetoric, most people close their ears and hear no more.  But permit me to correct some of his other misconceptions.  It was Jesus who condemned the Pharisees for using their "traditions of the elders" to obscure and obfuscate God's Law, but it's a misinterpretation of what Paul wrote which enables people like the above to make such claims, and claim that "God's Law was nailed to the cross". 
 
Furthermore, what he ignores is that Jesus' mission was to "redeem" the House of Israel to God's Law, which he erroneously refers to as "the law of Moses".  He infers that Israelites can sin and get away with it by being "saved", which is exactly the opposite of what the critics of Paul have said (and exactly the opposite of what Scripture says). He sets up a straw man argument so he can knock it down, maybe because he doesn't *understand* this point, or maybe because he's simply disingenuous (again).
 
What he's preaching is exactly what the Pharisees were preaching, which according to Jesus is 180 degrees contradictory to God's Law.
 
Now you can accept the following, or you can research it to see if there's a shred of truth to it:
"Paul focuses upon the fact that every descendant of Adam requires justification"
This statement is positively in error. It was Paul himself who equates the Ishmaelites [descendants of Hagar] as "begotten after the flesh" and the Israelites [descendants of Sarah] as "begotten after the spirit".  It was Paul himself who quotes the Old Testament Scripture that God HATES Esau [and his descendants the Edomites].
 
Edomites and Ishmaelites are "descendants of Adam", but by no stretch of the imagination can you infer that Paul would even hint that they would ever "receive justification".
 
This unidentified pastor wrote:
 
"They consider themselves by physical birth to possess covenantal relationship with the Eternal".
Again, note that it was Paul who equated Israelites to spirit and Ishmaelites to flesh, and who noted that they were under different covenants, with only the Israelites being under the everlasting covenant.  But it was also Paul who noted that *just* being an Israelite was necessary but not sufficient to be *redeemed*.  Note that the Assyrians, Babylonians, Egyptians, Syrians, and Hittites were also Adamites, and it's ludicrous to suggest that Jesus came for them.
 
It was also Paul who went to great lengths to explain that only Israelites would be [or could be] redeemed, and who outlined all the other requirements that Israelites must first meet.
 
Even if Paul's critics may have stepped over the line in their enthusiasm, the last thing they can be accused of is being jews or Pharisees.  If anybody fits that category, it's those who'd misquote Paul as having said ALL Adamites can be "justified".
 
 

 

 

----- Original Message -----
From: Andy
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 4:41 PM
Subject: The anti-Paulists

 
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:8 (KJV)

Heresy and apostasy has arisen on many of the Christian Israel/Identity lists, and most of these people who are aggressively promoting this vile, stupid, blind and foolish anti-Paul agenda, are of the serpent seedline persuasion. This small group of anti-Paulists has been attacking the Apostle Paul and any and all possible allies to his good name and testimony in the Holy Bible, including but not limited to the Apostle Luke. The Apostle Luke was even recently called an apostate by one such anti-Paulist, who sometimes calls himself John W Hendrickson (unknown because he refuses to identify himself clearly), and who may be just another of the persona’s of Paul Tronvig. The attack is serious, it has been methodically pursued for quite some time by a relatively small group of people, not all of the CI faith, some not even Christian, who are aiding and abetting this effort to cause division, and to strike such a blow to the Christian Israel Identity faith as to split it asunder.

 

At the heart of this effort are a group of anti-Christian and anti-Paul sites where some who I used to think of as Christian, draw information from to attack the faithful in the Word on our CI mail lists. We will get to more names shortly, but first let me tell you that there is a playbook for attacking the Holy Bible in subtle and diverse manners, it is of some 2,700 pages in length, and there may be more that hasn’t been revealed. I have a copy of that file and have started to share it with others, it is 10 Megabytes in size and I am sure, continuing to grow in the hands of Muriel Schmidt, who is either materially assisting or coordinating this effort against the Apostle Paul. Their distorted vision is being crafted with a consensus by Muriel Schmidt, John W Hendrickson, Paul Tronvig (a die hard Nazi until a year or so ago) and others to follow an exhaustive and methodological path to wear down and weary the faithful with their canned attacks that takes serious time to defang and debunk.

 

As witness, I recently asked John W on the House of Israel group about something that he had posted just days earlier and quoted it back to him, but he didn’t recognize it, most likely because it had come from another source as a cut and paste attack. The anti-Paulists aren’t serious in debating you or me; they are stealing our time while they confide to one another that they haven’t found anyone worthy of them yet to do a peer review of their self declared accomplishments! This file I now have proves conclusively that once an error in their statements is identified and corrected, with appropriate citations and proof, that they neglect the correction and resume using that error in presenting the same argument afresh to other parties. They are not innocents in search of the truth, they seek not to raise the Word, but to raze it to the ground and grind it under their Judaizing heels.

 

Muriel Schmidt admits that she has been against the Apostle Paul and his writings since 1960. The massive file that she has collected is being used as a resource and blueprint to test, probe, weary and drain the time and energy from those whom they challenge to answer questions, as if these anti-Paulists were allegedly, sincerely seeking the truth. There is a sharp, clear difference between their honey smooth words to us and what they share among themselves. Muriel Schmidt approached me to assist in copying these files to CD-ROM for her, I declined, but another was found and got so disgusted by what he was seeing and reading as the project unfolded, that he refused to aid this unholy effort any longer. In one thing I give Muriel credit, it wasn’t she who has been directly haranguing and arguing with everyone else though she isn’t shy to encourage others.

 

Moses wrote about a third of the Old Testament, Paul wrote about the same in the New. Both either murdered someone or were accessories to murder. Moses killed an overseer who was beating an Israelite, Saul held and watched the cloaks of those who stoned Stephen to death. King David sent Uriah the Hittite to his death so that he could unlawfully and deceptively have his wife, whom he lusted after. His son Solomon showed a distinct lack of Godly wisdom for a long period in his life where he married aliens and allowed these foreign wives to erect temples and shrines in groves for the worship of their false gods. The Bible isn’t a story about saints only, it is about us, sinners who are confronted and humbled by our merciful God, who changes us so that His glory will be magnified in our hearts and among His people, and from this we learn how great His love is. The anti-Paulists appear to have a fundamental error, in that they think by race and not grace, their acceptance by works without faith is assured. Here is how one well known CI gospel broadcaster who is long familiar with them, put it:

 

The most important thing which you need to understand about these people is that the reason they have no use for Christ Jesus is that they have no use for reconciliation, atonement, imputation, or justification; in short, they have no use for salvation.  And the reason they have no use for these fundamental acts is that they have no concept of personal sin or alienation from God.  In this thinking, they are Talmudic Jewish to the core.  They consider themselves by physical birth to possess covenantal relationship with the Eternal.  While they give lip service to the law of Moses, they in actuality are not trying to be saved by keeping the law of Moses, because they do not consider themselves to be in need of salvation.  This is because they do not consider themselves to be capable of sin.  These people are nothing more nor less than Pharisees.

 

Their hatred of Paul is, fundamentally, a hatred of the truth.  The teaching of Paul focuses upon the fact that every descendant of Adam requires justification, yet the law is unable to provide justification. Consequently, it is necessary for man to receive the imputation of a righteousness which is foreign to himself.  By analogy, every descendant of Adam is born hopelessly in debt.  Through keeping the law, the very best man can do is to keep from sliding further into debt; there never is a surplus with which to amortize the debt.  But in actuality, no man faithfully keeps the law, so the indebtedness always is increasing.

 

 

Much of the trouble that this group causes is that they waste your time by their incessant carping over what is to the rest of us, quite obvious and perceptible. The anti-Paulists seem to have all sorts of time to dispute, quibble and wrangle over the smallest matters, making me wonder if they actually have teams of people attacking the lists we use. In my viewing so far of well over 1,100 pages of their notes, indeed they do cooperate with each other in these attacks. It isn’t though just a matter of bringing sound truth to rebut their attacks, but it is a matter of recognizing that we have been targeted and are under assault by unbelievers and enemies of Jesus Christ, who all the while falsely proclaim the same beliefs as ours; yet they constantly attack the Holy Bible in their alleged quest for the truth. The first person I took note of was Paul Tronvig, who was until a year or so ago, an ardent non-Christian Nazi. He was introduced to me via a well known CI speaker and writer, and since then the rising pattern of vagueness, circular reasoning, poor reference of resource citations, and quibbling over clear statements by these people, has continued. They steal your time and soon, others who would post don’t or won’t because of the futility of dealing with these deceivers. Being blind, they want others to go into the ditch with them, so don’t let them try to take the proverbial mote out of your eye when the beam is squarely in theirs.

 

The slippery slope of compromise and confusion has regrettably been crossed by some who ought to have been better prepared for their debate, as this partial response by John Knight to just one of several well noted and eminently qualified CI protesters, who objected to these endless unholy discussions on one CI list notes:

 

There's no doubt that those who distrust Paul are causing you some heartburn.  Your suggestion, though, that they're the ones who're being adversely influenced by jews suggests to me that you really haven't grasped the significance of their points?

 

Either that, or you're using this ancient jew tactic yourself [inferring someone is an "anti-semite"] in order to keep from thinking about the excellent critiques they've posted to this forum, or to prevent them from continuing their discussion?

 

 

Those who are experienced and are as armored sheep in the flock have no real worry regarding them, but these heretics and apostates among us seek small niches to probe and drive a wedge into, and they also confound and confuse those new or yet still weak in the faith so that they can be reasoned with in a scientific or philosophical, Gnostic and Judaizing manner so that they will hopefully follow or accept these false shepherds on the CI lists. Remember the parable about the sower of seeds and how the birds came to take some away so that nothing grew, the similarity is the same. These anti-Paulists are also being entertained by some of us as if they were honorable and wise, and if we only learned to search more deeply with them, that we might better see the merit of what they maintain is the truth. Remember, they want to strike such a blow as to drive a wedge and split the faithful in CI asunder, here is one such statement by Muriel Schmidt to another of the CI faith proving this:

 

Obviously, such an exclusionary stand on such a central subject as Biblical Canon would create a firestorm of controversy, possible backlash and ultimately a huge and deep division within the CI community.

 

The ever humble Paul Tronvig wrote one pastor to badger and admonish him, saying:

If you cannot refute my numerous posts on Paul quickly and easily, you must stop promoting his gospel or you are taking the enormous risk of working for the Antichrist. (It just gets worse from there – Andy)

 

Muriel Schmidt wrote her pet wolf Paul Tronvig, who uses the alias Wolfgang and Wolfy, the following:

Greeting… am sure you have saturated the recipient with plenty about Paul being an Edomite??? I am not staying in touch whatsoever with Eli after hearing from you on his squishiness… (A nice sweet grandmother with fangs like this, needs to be watched carefully! – Andy) Here is another post from Muriel:

 

Muriel Schmidt <muriels@arkansas.net wrote:

Thanksgiving  greetings..  here is what you might be  interested in knowing  how Wolfie and I  feel about Arnold.   He talked  DOWN  to me   as if  a  woman  does not  need to have an opinion..   you are wasting time on him..  and   today,  TIME  is  very precious.. . in my opinion.  of course,  ms

 

One more post regarding how some are measured twice before the proverbial slice is the following:

 

            Subject: A Close Look At Deuteronomy 23:7

AI  hope you can  put  some  sentences  on  this topic,  for Scott is  getting "THE TREATMENT:,,  and  I am  grooming him   for  the saul' / paul  routrine..  thanks ,,  ms

 

One of their fellow travelers known as adsurf 20, is noted here as he pontificates and divines about the meaning of scripture:

 

I came across this most interesting prophecy in Zechariah chapter eleven tonight. As I was reading it, my heart was pounding and I had goosebumps.  I see PAUL of TARSUS all over this following prophecy and will show you how and where.  The funny thing was, as soon as I had finished reading it, and received the revelation from Yahveh about its meaning, "a pastor" from the Church of Christ, wrote me a slightly nasty email, telling me to "stop thinking and dreaming." I found the timing to be very odd, considering the magnitude of this prophecy! … The bible version I'm using for this is: Sacred Scriptures Family of Yah Edition

 

It might be better to find oneself in a den of thieves than among these scorpions, adders and wolves, in my opinion for you might still escape with your life from thieves, but among these, they will have your very soul for they will settle for nothing less.   

 

Pastor Jeff Weakley puts it very plainly in this fine statement where the issues really lay before us:

 

It has been brought to my attention that many Identity groups (such as these yahoo groups) have been infiltrated by serpents pretending to be children of God. This is nothing new. These tares almost always teach a form of Judaism (Pharisee-ism, Sadducee-ism, Gnostic-ism, etc.) and they go to great lengths to attack God's Word.
    Lately, the attack upon Scripture has been focused on rejecting the writings of Paul.  It seems the serpents would have us believe that Paul's writings conflict with the rest of the Scriptures.  Mature Christians are never taken in by such dribble but the serpents are not out to snare the mature.  The serpents have 2 other goals in mind.
First, they seek to ensnare the babes in Christ among us.  (They like opponents who are unable to defend themselves.)  Second, they seek to prevent truth seekers from examining Identity by passing themselves off as the typical Identity believer, thus making us (as a whole) look like idiots.  How often have I tried to share the "Tribal Truth" with a Judeo-Christian only to hear "Are you the guys who believe this or that?"  Of course their brother serpents in control of the media are a great help to them in this misrepresentation of the Identity message.
    For the sake of any truth seekers who are giving this a fair read I wish to say that the anti-Paul crowd does NOT represent Identity.  They are even unable to follow their own views to a logical conclusion.  Let me explain.  IF they were right (and they're not) and Paul was not a true Christian, we would have to reject all his writings.  So we would have to scratch Romans, I & II Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, I & II Thessalonians, I & II Timothy, Titus, Philemon and Hebrews right off the bat.  It would not stop there.  We would also have to reject Luke's Gospel because although Luke wrote it, it was really Paul's Gospel.  As Luke worked with Paul in his evil deeds we would also have to reject Acts (which was written by Luke and shows Paul to be a real Christian).  We would also need to reject Peter's writings (I & II Peter) as Peter classified Paul's writings with the "other Scriptures" in II Peter 3:15-16.  Next, we must reject the Gospel of Mark because it was really Peter's Gospel (Mark was just the writer) and Peter can't be trusted if he thinks that Paul is OK.  But now we must also reject the Gospel of Matthew and John's writings because both Matthew and John viewed Peter as a Disciple of Christ.  So there goes all 4 Gospels and I, II & III John and the Book of Revelations.  Let's see what we have left of the N.T. ?  James and Jude alone.  But wait. Peter James and John were pillars of the (early) church (working
together).  Can we really trust James if he could be mislead by both Peter and John?  So you see that when their dribble is actually applied they must reject all the N.T. except Jude.
    The Holy Spirit gives true Christians a love and hunger for God's Word.  We read the New Testament and the Holy Spirit says "Amen".  This reveals the problem with the anti-Paul serpents.  They are NOT born again and do not have the Holy Spirit.  Oh "yes" they have "A spirit" but it's not the Holy Spirit. 
    As Christians our new nature wishes to seek peace.  We do not seek conflict.  Yet we are commanded to reprove the works of darkness (Eph.
5:11).  We are not allowed to sit by and let these serpents spew forth their venom unopposed.  When you read their trash SAY SOMETHING!  Take a stand for our God and Savior, Jesus Christ and defend His Word.

 

A fine Christian Israelite writes also:

If there's one person the Jews hate more than Jesus, it's Paul. When Paul left the Pharisees, the Jews persecuted him. In every city Paul preached in, the Jews would organize a mob and try to kill him. Today's Jews blame Paul for proselytizing Gentiles and building the Christian Church. "By their fruit ye shall know them"...I'd like to see Paul Tronvig's ministry produce one-zillionth the fruit that Paul the Apostle did...That would indeed be a miracle..!

 

Here is a partial listing about who the people are believed to be actively assisting this effort, based on the 2,700 page file they maintained:

 

Muriel Schmidt – Master or Mistress of Ceremonies for this circus of confusion

Paul Tronvig, alias Wolfgang and Remember the Alamo

Dream Visions has a web site critical of Saul/Paul at http://www.netfaith.net/whoispaul (They call us mainstream Kristians)

John W Hendrickson, usually goes by John W

John Knight (Fathers Manifesto, etc.)

Nikki at yahsway4me.com

Sherry Shriner at sherryshriner.com

The Yahoo group SaulPaulandSatan

The Yahoo group False Apostle Paul

 

How I received this information and why is something I feel a need to explain. Over the past several months these anti-Paulist posts and attacks had been increasing, with my concern growing such that I made mention to Pastor Dan, who is a frequent recipient of these anti-Paulist messages, as are Eli James and Carl Klang, why Pastor Dan was reposting them without apparently reading them several months ago? Certainly these would strike any Pastor as bizarre if he were to read them. In South Afrika, Dr Finlay who is regarded as a very fine thinker by these anti-Paulists lost a large number of his flock when he went publicly anti-Paulist, and no wonder. Here is a portion of the message from a concerned Christian Brother that I received after posting some sharp rebuttals of the anti-Paulists:

 

Muriel Schmidt had befriended me, and was trying to win me over to the anti-Paul arguments. About 2 months ago, she sent me over 400 emails. They represented a collection of the emails between members of the Paul/Saul research group on yahoo lists. She asked me to paste them altogether, and burn it to a CD. While pasting, I started reading them, and finally decided our 'friendship' was not worth aiding this unholy effort. The material was very slanderous and destructive. As you know, this group wants to convince CI to remove about 14 books from the NT--the epistles of Paul, Timothy, Titus, and the gospel of Luke. It's not beyond them to malign more of Holy Scripture. I wrote back to these individuals telling them I thought they had no business critiquing Paul if they didn't even understand the milk of the gospel. They seem to think salvation comes by obedience to the Law. They are a distinctly Jewish sect of CI. Emails sent to-and-fro clearly indicated they were planning 1) publishing a large commentary on Anti-Paul. 2) turning this commentary into the footnotes of a new study bible they hope Identity Christians will adopt. I see this especially dangerous since so many Identity Christians are like me--babies---and are first drawn for carnal (often) reasons. This is real poison they are concocting. I wouldn't be surprised if they threw in a few 'sci-fi' stories and canonized them as well. George Udvary has been rewriting the Bible on his desktop, and recently joined the Paul/'Saul group. He is their author for this 'new' Bible. Needless to say, I had enough, and wrote them that I could not send them copies of their CD, and I wouldn't help them any way, shape, or form in the future. About that time, Scott Michaels sent an email which got to me even more upset. Scott bragged how such an anti-Paul book could literally split CI, leaving it an ash-heap.

 

Interestingly, none of the individuals in the Paul/Saul group call themselves 'Christians' or even like CI much. Below are some emails I saved that may shed more light on this den of thieves:

 

reply...  no about  100 more, but  will hold until you say I should send..  Will  all of this go on ONE  CD????  

These guys doing the discussing are  really  using all   their  info   and  the 
Arnold Kennedy  from new zealand  is  not  for  the  2 seed line,  and neither is  Neimela  ( retired  Navy colonel in  Virginia).   so  there are more points here  ===..  John knight asked me  where we should  take this,  and I suggested just start a new  site and keep  the  group  with  those who are in agreement,  as  there is not enough time to go around convincing  folks against  their wills... 

This is  no time  for  missionary work. .  We  passed the HUNTING  period, and are now in the FISHING  closer to  the  topics.

I realize  that this is   really big  chunk  ..to chew on.. I have  been unhappy with Paul since  1960..  so  it is  not hard for me  to  see what is going on...

George  Udvary  is  completely  on board..   I have some tapes from  Rev.  Dr.  W. R.  Finlay,  of  Johannesburg,  S A .   who was  strong against Paul, and  will send your  some, as he  is a  fine  thinker..  Another  top  writer  who was a close friend  of  Finlay  == and you may have seen  some of  this writer's books as he is a top Israalite..   Richard Kelly Hoskins....   He  almost had a   full nervous breakdown as a result of  the  antonistic  folks  who resented  his  anti Paul materials..\\

this is not a new project..  it is just that the Evangelicals  with their Scofield bibles  are in full  swing  right now,  with  the jews as the  chosen  people,  and   all hands on deck to help israel...  This is what damage  can be charged  directly to Paul...

in my opinion.  ms

Both of these pastors  are Identity, and do not think  that  it is just mongrelizing  the  name. . There is too much  t hat the Saviour taught  that  Paul   overlooks,  negates, and brings in  the  universalism..so it is difficu8lt  to  discuss  that as  the Pauline Christianity  just  gets put up front,   (  in error)...

I will send you a copy   of a book  that is  very  easy reading, and its title,  The Dead Sea Scrolls  Dece[topm///  ..   You will find it  worth while, and not  tedius  study.
   Keep it for your own library...   by the authors of " Holy Blood,  Holy Grail"...  a few years back.

 
At 12:09 PM 12/24/2004, you wrote:

 

so far the word document is 1057 pages long...I got about one hundred more emails to paste...you must have a lot remaining...???

 

Also on 12/24

 

The real estate deal  will be closing  the middle of January and I  plan to  help  George  with his  work on the Identity Bible..  this  is something  that will fit with your  heart and  head  as  he is  sincere about  the wrong parts of the  scripture and  his  material will make  those corrections  that  we all   look ahead  to  have.

in his  HOLY Name,..ms

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jacobisrael/message/399

From:  scott michaels <scott_24002@y...>
Date:  Sun Jan 2, 2005  6:25 am
Subject:  Re: [jacobisrael] Re: Who killed Jesus


Folks,
I think that up to this point in this most

excellent debate-discussion on the authoritativeness

of Paul and Luke that we have now established enough

grounds for reasonable doubt to place their writings
under serious suspicion. The very fact that no seal of
approval, any mention, outside of one questionable
one, was given or made by Yahshua or by the apostles,
concerning Paul and Luke, is enough in and of itself
to view Paul and Luke, who seem to come out of no
where historically speaking, with suspect intentions.
This is indeed a very serious state of affairs for the
subject of Bible Canon and demands an ongoing analysis
and eventual decision by the CI body as to Pauline and
Lukean inclusion in Holy Writ. Perhaps even a kind of
"internet council" could make a preliminary
declaration on the matter before a future physical
council would be convened to formalize any final
decisions, if such a meeting would even be viewed as
necessary, in these days of chaos. Needless to say, a
careful examination of the reasons presented by the
early church fathers for the acceptance of the
writings of Paul and Luke would be critical for any
formalized decisions forthcoming.
Obviously, such an exclusionary stand on such a
central subject as Biblical Canon would create a
firestorm of controversy, possible backlash and
ultimately a huge and deep division within the CI
community.
As tragic as such contentions would be, all
true Truth seekers acknowledge the age old conviction,
"The Truth against the world." May the Father guide us
all in the seeking of and the accepting of His Truth.

Scott

P.S. Many thanks go out to all participants on both
sides of the debate for their excellent presentations
and civil behavior within this most potentially
heated, controversial, discussion.

 


 

Muriel does much to fan the fires. She also is generous with her money. I don't think any of them are FBI/etc. But, Muriel always acts like Wolfgang (ironically his real name is Paul) in WA is the ringleader. I was given his phone number and tried talking to him about salvation. He hung up on me. But, he did mention he never has been a Christian, and before CI was a national socialist of some type. He's well educated, and owns a hotel that doesn't get much business. That's where I think he gets all of his wasted time. He admitted to me he uses 'reason' to dissect the Bible, but never once mentioned his own salvation or the holy spirit guiding him, prayer, etc. This guy is a big fake, and it's not hard to tell by his own barren branches. As an 'ex-national socialist' it's apparent where Wolfgang is coming from. He's more like a 'church of the creator' infiltrator than an FBI agent, but what's the difference????? 

 

The Paul/Saul group has been as methodological as a group can be on the internet. I agree with you. I do think they are attacking CI lists, as a prep to their upcoming published material(s). Unfortunately, it seems to have infected others since the arrival of Wolfgang to the scene, and now I fear it may be here to stay. You are soo right that the next thing around the corner is 'sci-fi'/Holy Grail/self-delusional imagination books taken as 'inspired text'. Anything is possible with their appetites.

 

I still have the collection of their pathetic research. If it would help you tear apart their arguments, let me know, and I'll send it to you. PS> they are probably able to overwhelm the lists because they're just cut-and-pasting old arguments/debates from the Saul/Paul yahoo group. That's probably one reason Muriel wanted me to turn all her saved emails into a single CD. She said copies would be circulated between anti-Paul advocates, and I should get ready to "collect a percentage from the proceeds from sales"...

 

It's too bad this kind of energy can't be spent on researching the strengths and weaknesses of 'dispensationalist'....The silver lining-- while an anti-Paul movement in CI may further discredit us, hampering efforts to reach the larger Christian community, it will separate the goats who hate the gospel from the sheep who know Christ. However, I also think we reap what we sew. CI tends to be preoccupied with genealogy and not as focused as we should be on Christ's atoning sacrifice. Have Identity preachers properly cared for their flocks? If CI doesn't now the 101 of the gospel, then how can we brave the storm? These anti-Paulers are baby antichrists, compared to what lays ahead.

 

I also agree with you that anti-Paul advocates are squarely anti-Christ in nature.

 

There you have it, the lines are drawn and in the twilight of her life, the grand Dame of CI is seeking a palace coup against the Holy Bible. It is said that she is handing out money to those who sing her tune, and if so, may her money perish with her, but to the Glory of God may the Truth win out. Those who say that Paul, Luke and every apostle who supported them are apostates, are just plain wrong. You have the facts before you, choose you now whom you will serve, and decide that those chosen by God to be His Apostles are indeed genuine in their collected testimony and proof, or these anti-Paulist fools two thousand years hence who strain at gnats while swallowing camels.

 

One last thing, Muriel Schmidt recommended a book above, it is by the same authors who wrote that Jesus Christ was just a mortal, had children by Mary Magdalene and these are the alleged heirs of the Church today. The fellow who twisted this story for the two authors in Holy Blood, Holy Grail confessed in court to making this all up. You can read about it in Cracking Da Vinci’s Code by James L Garlow and Peter Jones, pages 112-113, Victor Press, © 2004, and available at Wal-Mart. If there was such a clever story in the Dead Sea Scrolls Deception, by these same authors and of which I have a copy, then why didn’t it pan out after the release of the Dead Sea scrolls in the early 1990’s? It didn’t pan out because it isn’t true and Muriel Schmidt is deceived.

15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
Joshua 24:15 (KJV)

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Hebrews 6:4-6 (KJV)

4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
1 Timothy 1:4-7 (KJV)

With friends like this, who needs the Jew?

Vaya Con Dios, Andy

 

 

 

TRAITOR McCain

jewn McCain

ASSASSIN of JFK, Patton, many other Whites

killed 264 MILLION Christians in WWII

killed 64 million Christians in Russia

holocaust denier extraordinaire--denying the Armenian holocaust

millions dead in the Middle East

tens of millions of dead Christians

LOST $1.2 TRILLION in Pentagon
spearheaded torture & sodomy of all non-jews
millions dead in Iraq

42 dead, mass murderer Goldman LOVED by jews

serial killer of 13 Christians

the REAL terrorists--not a single one is an Arab

serial killers are all jews

framed Christians for anti-semitism, got caught
left 350 firemen behind to die in WTC

legally insane debarred lawyer CENSORED free speech

mother of all fnazis, certified mentally ill

10,000 Whites DEAD from one jew LIE

moser HATED by jews: he followed the law

f.ck Jesus--from a "news" person!!

1000 fold the child of perdition

 

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