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brndnms <brndnms@bellsouth.net> wrote:

At 12:11 PM 2/24/2005, Jacob Israel wrote:

 

Brandon,
 
You HATE the Word of God, don't you?


On the contrary!  I love it!  It seems it's you that hates it as you are constantly trying to change it.

 


You wrote:
 

"True!  But the subject was speaking in tongues in v. 34."

 

No.  The subject about "speaking" never changed throughout the entire chapter. 


And that subject was tongues.

 

Note that in 1 Chronicles 14, both prophesy and speaking in tongues are referred to as "speaketh" ["laleo", Strong's #2980] and that both prophesy and tongues are referred to 14 times.  The subject is not tongues, but "laleo", or speaking, and the different manners of speaking.

 

Paul specifically stated throughout this chapter that "speaking" by prophesying was preferable to "speaking" in tongues.  He continually referred to both as "speaking".  Even though speaking in tongues was not prohibited, it was restricted in some ways:
1Cr 14:39
 


 

Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

 

Paul calls BOTH "speaking":
1Cr 14:3
 


 

But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men [to] edification, and exhortation, and comfort.


They are!  But tongues is the subject and prophesying is only contrasted to it.  
 

Not only are tongues not the subject, but the point of the entire chapter is that speaking by prophesy is preferable over speaking in tongues:

1Cr 14:4 He that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

1Cr 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongue, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongue ...

1Cr 14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

1Cr 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that [by my voice] I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an [unknown] tongue.

1Cr 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

 


 

He specifically says that women CANNOT speak:
 
1Cr 14:34
 


 

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.


No he doesn't.  As you can see Paul is saying "allow your women/wives to be in silence..."   It seems that some husbands were not doing that.  This is addressed, not to women, but to men.  They were shirking their duty obviously and having their wives do their responsibility.  The subject was speaking tongues and they were the ones to do it.  It was their duty.
 

 

BUT, this says "but [(women) are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law".  It's the women not the men who're commanded to be under obedience "as also saith the law".
 

And he specifically said that men CAN speak:
 

1Cr 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.


But in v. 38 they are not to speak without an interpreter.  Do you have an interpreter when you speak?
 

When I speak in tongues [read: a foreign language], yes, I do have an interpreter.  But men do not need an interpreter when they speak by prophesy.  And neither do women--because they're not allowed to speak by tongues nor prophesy.


 

In these two verses, Paul contrasts "ei tis" [#1536] "any man", with "gune" [#1135] "a woman of any age, whether a virgin, or married, or a widow".


No he doesn't!  v.35 clearly shows that the man is the husband of the woman.  Therefore the context shows that only married women are spoken of here because only husbands were allowing their wives to do their duty.
 

Here again is the definition of "gune" from which "women" was translated:

1) a woman of any age, whether a virgin, or married, or a widow

2) a wife

a) of a betrothed woman

And here again are nine different translators who all agreed that it means "women" and not "wives":

NLT - 1Cr 14:34 - Women should be silent during the church meetings. It is not proper for them to speak. They should be submissive, just as the law says.
New Living Translation � 1996 Tyndale Charitable Trust

 
NKJV - 1Cr 14:34 - Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says.
New King James Version � 1982 Thomas Nelson

 
NASB - 1Cr 14:34 - The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.
New American Standard Bible � 1995 Lockman Foundation

 
RSV - 1Cr 14:34 - the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says.
Revised Standard Version � 1947, 1952.

 
Webster - 1Cr 14:34 - Let your women keep silence in the churches; for it is not permitted to them to speak: but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
Noah Webster Version 1833 Info

 
Young - 1Cr 14:34 - Your women in the assemblies let them be silent, for it hath not been permitted to them to speak, but to be subject, as also the law saith;
Robert Young Literal Translation 1862, 1887, 1898 Info

 
Darby - 1Cr 14:34 - Let [your] women be silent in the assemblies, for it is not permitted to them to speak; but to be in subjection, as the law also says.
J.N.Darby Translation 1890 Info

 
ASV - 1Cr 14:34 - let the women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but let them be in subjection, as also saith the law.
American Standard Version 1901 Info

 
Vulgate - 1Cr 14:34 - mulieres in ecclesiis taceant non enim permittitur eis loqui sed subditas esse sicut et lex dicit
Jerome's Latin Vulgate 405 A.D. Info

 

 

 


 

Men can speak by either prophesying or speaking in tongues, but women cannot


Paul says ALL could prophesy (1 Cor 14:31).  

 

No, Paul says that ONLY men can prophesy in the "ekklesia", and that "all" may prophesy" "ONE BY ONE":

1Cr 14:31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

 

 

 

and also must "be under obedience, as also saith the law [read: Torah]".


So show me the Law in the torah that says a woman cannot speak.

 

What part of the Torah says that, Brandon? 


That's what I'm asking you to show me John.  Of course you can't show any such verse because there is none.

 

Or do you also believe Paul was a false apostle


No, I just believe  you are a false teacher and twist Paul's writings to your own destruction.

 

and just made this up about women being "under obedience"?


If anyone made up anything it's you and the "law" that says women can't speak in the ekklesia.

 

 Which chapter and verse is Paul quoting here?


He's not!  But you can prove me wrong by showing he is.

 

Let's compare what you write to what Paul wrote:


1Cr 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

Do you deny that Paul claims that "the law" also says that women are commanded to be under obedience?

 

 



1Cr 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual [gifts], but rather that ye may prophesy.


1Cr 14:2 For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.


1Cr 14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men [to] edification, and exhortation, and comfort.


1Cr 14:4 He that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.


1Cr 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongue, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongue, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.


1Cr 14:6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongue, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?


1Cr 14:7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?


1Cr 14:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?


1Cr 14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.


1Cr 14:10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them [is] without signification.


1Cr 14:11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh [shall be] a barbarian unto me.


1Cr 14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual [gifts], seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.


1Cr 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue pray that he may interpret.


1Cr 14:14 For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.


1Cr 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.


1Cr 14:16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?


1Cr 14:17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.


1Cr 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongue more than ye all:


1Cr 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that [by my voice] I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an [unknown] tongue.


1Cr 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.


1Cr 14:21 In the law it is written, With [men of] other tongue and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.


1Cr 14:22 Wherefore tongue are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying [serveth] not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.


1Cr 14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongue, and there come in [those that are] unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?


1Cr 14:24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or [one] unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:


1Cr 14:25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on [his] face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.


1Cr 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.


1Cr 14:27 If any man speak in an [unknown] tongue, [let it be] by two, or at the most [by] three, and [that] by course; and let one interpret.


1Cr 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.


1Cr 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.


1Cr 14:30 If [any thing] be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.


1Cr 14:31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.


1Cr 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.


1Cr 14:33 For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.


1Cr 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.


1Cr 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.


1Cr 14:36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?


1Cr 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.


1Cr 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.


1Cr 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.


1Cr 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order.
 

 

TRAITOR McCain

jewn McCain

ASSASSIN of JFK, Patton, many other Whites

killed 264 MILLION Christians in WWII

killed 64 million Christians in Russia

holocaust denier extraordinaire--denying the Armenian holocaust

millions dead in the Middle East

tens of millions of dead Christians

LOST $1.2 TRILLION in Pentagon
spearheaded torture & sodomy of all non-jews
millions dead in Iraq

42 dead, mass murderer Goldman LOVED by jews

serial killer of 13 Christians

the REAL terrorists--not a single one is an Arab

serial killers are all jews

framed Christians for anti-semitism, got caught
left 350 firemen behind to die in WTC

legally insane debarred lawyer CENSORED free speech

mother of all fnazis, certified mentally ill

10,000 Whites DEAD from one jew LIE

moser HATED by jews: he followed the law

f.ck Jesus--from a "news" person!!

1000 fold the child of perdition

 

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