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U.S. News: Thread #203319


'Expel All Illegals'


1 Oct-18   From: Dayhawk Kim   To: ALL

Chertoff: 'Expel All Illegals'

More in Communities
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bulletYour American I.Q.? Take the Citizenship Test

The Homeland Security chief said the "catch and release" program has not worked and proposed stemming the tide of illegal immigration by setting up a guest worker program and expelling every single illegal resident. Do you think this solution will work?

"Return every single illegal entrant. No exceptions!" Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff told the Senate Judiciary Committee Tuesday, proposing long-term goals on stemming the tide of illegal immigration.

"Brute enforcement" alone is not the answer, Mr. Chertoff said, adding that companies must comply with workplace laws and the U.S. should create a guest worker program.

Almost 900,000 Mexicans caught entering the U.S. each year are returned immediately, but others have simply overwhelmed the existing system with sheer numbers.

"Today, a non-Mexican illegal immigrant caught trying to enter the United States across the southwest border has an 80 percent chance of being released immediately because we lack the holding facilities," Mr. Chertoff said.

Those who are released rarely return to attend deportation hearings. And shortage of officers increase the likelihood that they will never be caught.

The guest worker program would authorize temporary immigrants to work for six years in the U.S. before returning to their home country and reapplying for the benefit. Those who are already here would pay a fine before being allowed to apply.

But Congress is not prepared to take on any comprehensive immigration reform this year and instead plans to add money for more officers and more beds at detention facilities.

It is unclear whether Cuban immigrants would still receive special benefits under what became known as the "wet feet, dry feet" policy, which allows Cubans who reach U.S. soil to pursue residency within a year of arrival.

How do you think the U.S. should approach illegal immigration?



[Views expressed are those of the author(s) and do not necessarily reflect those of CompuServe, Netscape, any government, agency, or news organization.]


horizontal rule

Edited 10/18/2005 6:47 pm ET by Dayhawk Kim

2 Oct-18   From: carldezur5000   To: Dayhawk Kim
All Illegal's should all be deported or expelled.
3 Oct-18   From: grsb174   To: Dayhawk Kim
Absolutely. They are making our health care go up by getting everything free, giving birth here and that is free........ doing jobs that citizens could do. Just doesn't make sense that they are just finally getting around to doing something.
4 Oct-18   From: hbsch   To: grsb174
I agree 100%. Most of these people that come here come to get a free ride & contribute nothing. Let them apply legally & go through screening to see if they can contribute other than going on welfare or getting free medical care.
5 Oct-18   From: chrisd19   To: Dayhawk Kim
Yes! key word,(ILLEGAL).Why should that even be a question?They burden the economy,they keep wages down for legitimate citizens,and the people who harbored them should be arrested. chris
6 Oct-18   From: dhs121968   To: hbsch
SURE, SEND THEM BACK AND THEN START PUTTING THESE AMERICANS TO WORK WHO ARE ON THE WELFARE,IF THEY CHOOSE NOT TO DO THE JOB,CUT THEM OFF!!!!!!



7 Oct-18   From: ritexcorp   To: Dayhawk Kim
Anything that anyone in the Bush regime, the Bush mafia proposes, chertoff this means you, must be taken with a fistful of salt, because they are only interested in ripping off the american public. Sure, lets expel all of the immigrants, forgeting tht we are a country of immigrants, how much is that going to cost, and has anyone thought it through as to the benefits? Sure its going to cost over 200 billion, who is going to pocket that money? The border is like a sieve. So you propose that we undertake this big deal and the results are sucked under like quicksand to no avail. What an obscene proposal. Lets see how chertoff fares after the next hurricane rolls through. Lets hope that the response will be better than Katrina. Whats Chertoff still doing there anyways, He is of the same ilk as Brownie.
8 Oct-18   From: Pegifer1   To: ritexcorp
Anything that anyone in the Bush regime, the Bush mafia proposes, chertoff this means you, must be taken with a fistful of salt, because they are only interested in ripping off the american public.

Oh - get a grip - They don't rip off the American public any more than any other administration does. That's Government.

Sure, lets expel all of the immigrants, forgeting tht we are a country of immigrants,

We are a country of immigrants who came to this country to be a part of this country. They learned our language and became citizens. Not so with Mexico.

What an obscene proposal.

Since 9/11, it doesn't make any sense at all to keep ILLEGAL (key word) aliens here. I know that now we are supposed to call them "undocumented workers" but they are still ILLEGAL.

9 Oct-18   From: 112002.1377   To: ritexcorp
As an arch leftest liberal your thinking is as usual defective. Yes this country is a land of imigrants who prior to 1880 build this country with a musket and an ax in that there was no welfare program to fall back on if they decided that they did not want to work. This country was build by hard working people that are a drastic contrast to the low life immigrates today. 56% of all California's state tax dollars goes to social services for Illegal Mexican Nationals. The big excuss is that we need new imigrantes to take the low end paying jobs that Americans will not take. However, people like you and Bush fail to realize is that the Mexican National working at McDonalds making $8.00 / hour has 7 children and grandparents all living in a welfare paid for house with tax payer dollars, so that hamberger at McDonalds really costs the tax payers $187.00 each. It would be more tax effective to pay everyone that works at McDonalds $100.00/hour and send the Mexican Nationals home.

You are also mistaken with regard to stopping illegal imigration: The Republicians including Bush support it in that they all want the cheap labor for big business and the Democrates support illegal imigration in that they all become good democrates whereby they can live off welfare beneifits forever.

The principle moto of a left wing liberal like yourself is to re-distribute the nations wealth from the people that worked hard for it to the people that are doing nothing.

Answer: Pull all the troups out of Europe where they are hated and put them on the Mexican border where the real threat is.

 

 

 

10 Oct-18   From: karen1dec   To: Dayhawk Kim
The key word here is "illegal". Yes they should all be returned to their homelands immediately. In another article a statement was made that they should be allowed 5 years to return on their own. NO! We are just giving them 5 more years to hide deeper.

Living in a border state I see how many illegal aliens are coming across the borders and taking jobs not to mention all those loitering around street corners waiting for someone to offer them a job. This state fenced off an area where illegal aliens can wait and try to find work. The state is even paying for security to oversee the area to prevent fights and make sure it satays clean. Put that security on the border. It's a game for them to buy a late model car for cash and not insure it. Half the accidents involve an unlic., uninsured illegal. It infuriates me to see them get back in a car and drive off under these circumstances when they wouldn't even think of letting me do the same thing. And of course forget about showing up in court. It has happened to me and I ended paying for the repair of my car and prayed my rates wouldn't go up any higher because illegals don't have to follow the same rules we do.
It isn't just Mexican illegals coming across the southern borders. We see them from Columbia, El Salvador and there have even been those from the Middle East and other countries come in through Mexico.
Most work for cash and don't pay taxes but they can get medical care and schooling for their children regardless of legal status. Some of them find a way to qualify for food stamps. Making bogus SS cards and papers are big business.

I guess it even offends me that most of the signs on stores and in businesses are in Spanish as well as English. This is America. English is our language and 9 out of 10 Mexicans that can't read or speak a word of English are illegal. Just yesterday I was at the grocery store and after rattling off all the sales in English I got the Spanish version.

Then you do like Castro and empty the jails and sent them to us.

We need to secure the borders and send all illegals home no matter how long they have been here ILLEGALLY - no matter what job they may have had had for 10 years ILLEGALLY. It's the law and our country is breaking it. We are accused of violating rights. ILLEGALS don't have any rights if they are here ILLEGALLY.


11   From: ALL   To: ALL
12 Oct-18   From: marktfremont   To: Dayhawk Kim
How do you think the U.S. should approach illegal immigration?

Give any and all illegal's an "about face forward march double time"back to where they ccame from,no exceptions!

 

Mark Fremont

13 Oct-18   From: MMikeJBenNB   To: Dayhawk Kim
We should aggressively deport ALL illegal immigrants. If we did that, employers would be FORCED to pay better wages. Before you say that illegals only take jobs Americans and legal immigrants refuse to take, take a look at the roofing industry. It used to be a good-paying, unionized trade. Now, with almost all either illegal immigrants or homeless, it is mostly scab and low-paying. The warehousing industry, which I used to be a member of, has suffered the same, for the same reason.

Having said that, the government MUST start prosecuting employers who hire them, as they are the main reason people come here illegally in the first place. They are trying to find a better life.



Michael J. Benardo
A Roosevelt Democrat and proud of it.
San Francisco, Cal.
14 Oct-18   From: thinkso13   To: Dayhawk Kim
Yes! The time is long overdue to solve this problem. The penalty for illegal entry should be immediate expulsion, No Exceptions! I favor a 3 strikes policy. The penalty for the third illegal entry should be death with no possibility of appeal. In addition a huge fine should be levied against the country of origion for each third time illegal entrant. US employers found to habitually hire undocumented workers should have buisness liscences permanently revoked, again NO Exceptions! All bilingual programs should be scrapped immediately. Legal immigrants should be required to learn basic english within one year. The flood of illegal immigration would surely slow to a trickle if policies like these were put into effect and if the world believed we would enforce them strictly.
15 Oct-18   From: grsb174   To: 112002.1377
Are you not paying attention. Bush is the one who will not do anything about the illegal immigrants. You must be so far out to the right you can't hear or read.
16 Oct-18   From: moviecash   To: Dayhawk Kim
Send them back immediately. Raid the delis and the manufacturing plants and send them all back. I am tired of all the lucy and larry liberals that say we are a county of immagrents. Immagrents that learned to speak the language. We didn't need to press 1 for english of 2 for spanish. This is America we speak english. Andrew Dice Clay said it best, if you can't speak the language get the fck out of the country, I agree,
17   From: ALL   To: ALL
18 Oct-18   From: thewizard69420   To: Dayhawk Kim
As I understand things, most some illegals come here with the intention to escape a hostile government and way of life and they come here to become Americans and make a dream a reality for their families. This I can accept, and believe we should accommodate people like that. That continues to build America. We should speed up their transition into becoming productive members of our society.
Also as I understand things, some illegals come here with the intention of staying for a wile and accumulating money and then returning to their country of origin with the money to build their lives where they came from. This I find unacceptable, for it drains our nations economy and resources, and causes all kinds of bad will. This behavior is destructive. Overall we should do something that takes these differences into consideration, but I would not favor the "guest worker" portions of a plan like in the original post for I think it will legalize the abuse of our borders and our resources that seems to have so many Americans upset.
Alan G
19 Oct-18   From: debbadr   To: Pegifer1
I think it is a practical proposal that we implement guest worker program, provided
they require them to learn english, file taxes for five years before they will be
eligible to apply for green card.They will be given green card only if they prove that
they did not misuse their stay by applying for welfare. They will be fined severely if they have felony conviction and have been involved in criminal activities.
You cannot deny that people are coming to this country for an opportunity to work and
make a living for themselves and their families. If you provide them benefits to be legit, they will convert in mass scale. They will be given free ESL courses to learn english. They should be given free medical care and it should be paid by the employers who want to sponsor them and take the responsibility that they will be not be a burden on the society.
20 Oct-18   From: Neutral   To: chrisd19
\\They burden the economy,they keep wages down for legitimate citizens,and the people who harbored them should be arrested.//

You are exactly right Chris. But that's the way Bush wants it in order to maintain cheap wages for the rich and corps., and eliminate the so-called middle class.

21   From: ALL   To: ALL
22 Oct-18   From: fuzy1two   To: carldezur5000
All Illegal's should all be deported or expelled. >>>>>>

I AGREE,BUT WITH NO GUEST WORKER STATUS EITHER. COMPANIES NOT COMPLYING OR HIRING ILLEGALS SHOULD FACE STIFF PENALTIES. IF TAKES JOBS AWAY BECAUSE OF CHEAPER LABOR, AND INCREASES PROFITS THAT DO NOT "TRICKLE DOWN" IN THE ECONOMY DUE TO CHEAPER LABOR. IT'S JUST A WINDFALL, NOTHING MORE. WITH THAT SAID, IT HAS PLACED UNDUE BURDEN ON HEALTHCARE AND SCHOOLS ALL ACROSS THE UNITED STATES, ALONG WITH THE COURT SYSTEMS, FOOD STAMP PROGRAMS AND OTHER AID TO AMERICAN CITIZENS. I REALIZE THAT THERE ARE SOME THAT DO NOT FALL INTO THIS GROUP, HOWEVER, THOSE ARE FEW IN COMPARISON TO THOSE THAT DO. SEND THEM BACK, AND THE SOONER, THE BETTER.!!!!!!! SORRY FOR THE "SHOUTING" AS IT IS CALLED ON THESE BOARDS, BUT IT'S HIGH TIME MOST AMERICAN CITIZENS BEGIN TO SHOUT ABOUT THIS PROBLEM. SHOUTING IS THE ONLY WAY TO GET THE ATTENTION OF OUR "BELOVED" LEADERS IN THEIR INFINITE WISDOM. HA HA!!!

23   From: ALL   To: ALL
24 Oct-18   From: fuzy1two   To: moviecash
Send them back immediately. Raid the delis and the manufacturing plants and send them all back. I am tired of all the lucy and larry liberals that say we are a county of immigrants. >>>>

WELL, THIS IS ONE DEMOCRAT WHO SAYS SHIP THEM ALL BACK. IT'S TRUE THAT THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED ON THE BACK OF MANY IMMIGRANTS, HOWEVER, THOSE PEOPLE ADHERED TO THE RULES AND REGULATIONS PUT IN PLACE, AND BECAME A PART OF THIS CULTURE, LEARNING THE LANGUAGE, LAWS, AND MAKING A SOLID CONTRIBUTION. THEY DID NOT WANT A FREE HANDOUT, ONLY A HAND IN BUILDING THIS COUNTRY. THAT SAID, IT IS NOT ENTIRELY, EVEN REMOTELY TRUE, WITH THE VAST MAJORITY OF IMMIGRANTS HERE TODAY. THEY ARE HERE ILLEGALLY, TAKE THE MOST FREE GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS AVAILABLE, DO NOT SPEAK MUCH ENGLISH, AND PUT A STRAIN ON HEALTHCARE, SCHOOLS, COURTS, AND OTHER GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS. SEND THEM BACK FOREVER UNLESS THEY PLAY BY THE SAME RULES AMERICAN CITIZENS MUST PLAY BY, AND THE SOONER THE BETTER. THE COST OF SENDING THEM BACK WOULD APPEAR TO BE MINUTE IN COMPARISON TO THE LONG TERM COSTS OF CONTINUING ON THE SAME ROAD AS TODAY. SEEYALATERBYE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

25 Oct-18   From: colleenann77   To: Dayhawk Kim
GIve them two choices. Leave on their own or be shot. Either way they are gone...


26 Oct-18   From: oafishcad   To: Dayhawk Kim
This is just another example of the Bush administration talking out of both sides of their mouth. They know most Americans-Liberal and Conservative- want ILLEGAL immigration stopped. Bush and his pals on the other hand do not want it stopped, since he's proposed amnesty and a guest worker program, and his corporate buds love the cheap labor and how it drives wages and benefits down. What to do? Same as they always do-have some member of the administration start talking tough, while simultaneously doing nothing to stop ILLEGALS from entering. Maybe Chertoff wants what he says, so what? It ain't gonna happen. Everyone welcomes legal immigration, ILLEGALS are not the same, they come here as criminals-and have my complete empathy, but sorry, the USA has the right to make laws and has the right to secure borders.
27 Oct-18   From: oldster51620   To: grsb174
<<Are you not paying attention. Bush is the one who will not do anything about the illegal immigrants. You must be so far out to the right you can't hear or read.>>

A little context please -- these people didn't start coming when Bush was inaugurated.

28
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29 Oct-18   From: debbadr   To: colleenann77
****GIve them two choices. Leave on their own or be shot. Either way they are gone...

You are saying that because they are not of your kind.........

30   From: ALL   To: ALL
31
Messages 203319.31 through 203319.33 were moved to 203359.2
34 Oct-18   From: denaa123   To: Dayhawk Kim
I completly agree. My parents immigrated legally in the 80's and they had to go through so much to be able to stay here and earn a living. It is unfair to LEGAL immigrants that illegal ones are able to stay in this country without having to go through all the hassle and emotions that come with trying to get a green card. That is the only way this country should work. Those who work for it can stay. Those who dont, are OUTTA HERE.
35 Oct-18   From: jcasimir1   To: ALL
flash -- to all jingoist chauvinist exclusivist xenophobe america-firsters:

as franklin d. roosevelt opened an address to the daughters of the american revolution:

"my fellow immigrants:"

rant on about immigration reform as much as you like. never happen. u.s. business will not allow it, and the u.s. economy cannot manage it. your prosperity depends critically on the 11 million or so illegals in the u.s.

per business week, these folks harvest half of our food, process one-third of our meat, provide one-third of our food service, take care of one-third or more of our housekeeping and janitorial work, and do at least one quarter of our needle trades and lowest-wage unskilled manufacturing jobs.

whether you've noticed or not, the american work force is aging, the labor supply shrinking, advanced degrees diminishing, talent thinning, and population growth flattening. unlike europe and japan, which face stagnation and economic contraction, the u.s. is still able to attract large numbers of immigrants who are expected to maintain economic, population, and market growth and raise the levels of talent available in every sector.

from high tech IT to low end services of every description, american business is inalterably opposed to anything but token immigration controls, meantime supporting amnesty for those illegals already here. since we remember whose contributions support the incumbents, it's reasonable to expect that neither congress nor the administration will even nip at the hand that feeds them.

so save your breath. never happen.

it might be instructive to remember where we came from. the selfishness, arrogance, and intolerance i see in some of these posts flies in the face of the very american values that brought people here in the first place and gave them homes.

oh. except half of my ancestors, who were none too happy to see the british buy nieuw amsterdam out from under them, but they seemed to do OK nonetheless.

meantime, welcome to the new world a todo el mundo.

kind regards,

casimir

36 Oct-18   From: deadgopper   To: Dayhawk Kim
-How do you think the U.S. should approach illegal immigration?-

This issue has been predicted to be one of main GOP platforms in the upcoming election - a political stunt. If Bush/Homeland were serious about porous borders, they would have sealed everything up after 9/11. The GOP are putting the face of evil on the Jews..I mean, immigrants.

37 Oct-18   From: 103662.413   To: dhs121968
To stop it all that is necessary is to threaten to shoot them if they re caught crossing the border.

You may have to shoot a couple a couple but the word will spread like wildfire. I you think that

is extreme what would you if one entered your home?

38 Oct-18   From: jamesc748   To: jcasimir1
as franklin d. roosevelt opened an address to the daughters of the American revolution:

"my fellow immigrants:"

None of my fellow conspirators that I know of are against legal immigration. They are against illegal immigration. You are misstating the argument and arguing with your misstatement. The good news is that you are winning.

rant on about immigration reform as much as you like. never happen. U.S. business will not allow it, and the U.S. economy cannot manage it. your prosperity depends critically on the 11 million or so illegals in the U.S.

I happen to disagree. Though I could be wrong, I believe the American people will eventually force politicians who want to get re elected to seal the borders. Some businesses will not like it but will adjust. My prosperity also depends on radicle Muslims not slipping across the border and blowing me up. My prosperity also depends upon illegals not draining government resources without paying taxes for them.

per business week, these folks harvest half of our food, process one-third of our meat, provide one-third of our food service, take care of one-third or more of our housekeeping and janitorial work, and do at least one quarter of our needle trades and lowest-wage unskilled manufacturing jobs.

What does that have to do with them breaking the law? If buisnesses were dumping toxic waste in the lake to save some money and pass on to a cheaper product would you support that?

whether you've noticed or not, the American work force is aging, the labor supply shrinking, advanced degrees diminishing, talent thinning, and population growth flattening. unlike Europe and japan, which face stagnation and economic contraction, the U.S. is still able to attract large numbers of immigrants who are expected to maintain economic, population, and market growth and raise the levels of talent available in every sector.

Actually, there are something like 2.3 children per American household. It takes 2.2 to sustain the population. Also, fewer Americans are dying prematurely so it is not possible that the workforce is "aging". Europe is facing a stagnated economy due to excessive socialism and taxation stiffing the free market system. I am not sure why Japan would be stagnating. How can predominantly low skilled, uneducated illegals, most of whom can't even speak english, "raise the levels of talent in every sector?"

from high tech IT to low end services of every description, American business is unalterably opposed to anything but token immigration controls, meantime supporting amnesty for those illegals already here. since we remember whose contributions support the incumbents, it's reasonable to expect that neither congress nor the administration will even nip at the hand that feeds them.

How can predominantly low skilled, uneducated illegals, most of whom can't even speak english be filling "hi tech" positions causing companies to oppose reform on that basis? The lower end jobs I can understand. True, politicians depend on money to campaign, but they depend on votes to stay in office. The same grass roots effort that put the republicans in power, both on the federal and state level, can have a similar effect on immigration reform.

so save your breath. never happen.

I am optimistic that it will happen. But then if I was pessimistic all the time I would be a liberal.

 

it might be instructive to remember where we came from. the selfishness, arrogance, and intolerance I see in some of these posts flies in the face of the very American values that brought people here in the first place and gave them homes.

It might be instructive to remember that laws were made for a reason. I'm pretty sure if someone broke into your house and stole your possessions, you would want to make sure that the law was enforced. It might also be instructive to remember that if a group of illegals can cross the border, a jihadi with a suitcase nuke can also. It might also be instructive to remember that thousands of non-white, non-Americans either get naturalized or obtain work visas every year. Legally.

oh. except half of my ancestors, who were none too happy to see the British buy nieuw amsterdam out from under them, but they seemed to do OK nonetheless.

If you don't want the British to buy something, don't put it up for sale. Guess who no longer owns Jaguar?

 

 

39 Oct-18   From: soundnfury   To: ALL
Great discussion here.

I live in Los Angeles, a city with a huge immigrant population. There are a few things to consider about this issue:

#1
As with any supply and demand, why are so many people coming over the border? It's not just Mexico, either...there are many reports of boats docking with hundreds of Asian people stowed in the holds.

Should America work on making these people's home countries stable enough that the population would rather stay than leave?

#2
Why are American businesses continuing to hire these people? Because they're cheap slave labor, that's why. Why pay an American citizen union wages to perform manual labor when you can pay a tenth of that to an illegal immigrant whom you can control, because you can threaten to report them to INS if they get out of line?

So should the Federal Government tell US business leaders whom they can and can not hire? And what is the penalty if they do not comply?

Furthermore, what's stopping these businesses from relocating to the home country and paying slave wages there?

When will America learn to support itself? Our infrastructure is collapsing--we don't make anything for ourselves anymore (look at you clothes, your food, your house...how much of that was made by American citizens?)

#3
What about the immigrants who are here now, who have become citizens (legally), and who now vote for pro-immigrant policies in elections?

Should the Federal Government go against the will of the democratic people who happen to believe in giving immigrants a chance? (since many of the voters are recent immigrants themselves?)

Do we need to impress upon the recent immigrants the effect they and their families are having on the beautiful land of opportunity that they have come to?

#4
Why aren't more citizens of America willing to take on the low-paid, manual labor jobs that immigrants routinely take? Go into any high school, and ask the kids there what they're going to do when they graduate (assuming they graduate). How many of them will say "pick fruit for a dollar a basket seven days a week" or "clean toilets in office buildings from 6pm-2am" or "bus tables on the weekend while my friends are partying"?

Should parents and teachers lower kids' expectations, or require teenagers to work these low-skill jobs? Does anyone remember having a paper route?

Personally, I dug ditches, removed asbestos, and gardened my high school to pay for my tuition (private school). After that, I had a paper route to get a little extra money (which I occasionally gave to my single-parent mother to help her make ends meet). In college, I flipped burgers at the school cafeteria to pay rent (it was a great job, actually...I got paid dollars above minimum wage, earned meal tickets for any food on campus, and got to work with my college peers). Of course, now I'm a bum and rely on wifefare for life.

#5
FYI, many Hispanic immigrants are socially conservative (and devoutly Catholic), and have been known to vote Republican on many issues (anti-abortion, gay repression, etc.). To remove them from the country (or piss them off) also means attacking a large base of voters.

What politician is willing to take a chance on alienating a huge demographic of aliens (at least the legal voting ones)?

#6
If it's so easy to get into this country for a barely-educated Mexican, how easy is it for a terrorist to hop the border?

#7
What about the large numbers of Canadians who immigrate to America? Are they OK because they're white and speak English?

*******
Personally, I don't think we'll ever solve this issue until America collapses as the lone superpower (coming soon), so that another country is more attractive to immigrate to than the US.

Realize, the "cooler" or "better" we are as a nation, the more people want to be a part of that.

Does anyone know how socialist nations (e.g., Scandinavia) handle immigration? It seems there are better places to go if you want free meal ticket.

Thanks for reading.

SNF

40 Oct-18   From: lorraine305   To: Dayhawk Kim
 If the homeland securtiy chief is so determined to expel ALL illegals from this country he should have rejected the idea that those so called militia men went to only the Mexican border and not the Canadian border.

This is the reason as to why they will never be able to expel all illegals because the focus would be on the "Browns" and they would immediately scream discrimination, and they would be just in doing so.

 How often is it that the news reports someone illegal coming across the Canadian border as oppose to the ones coming across the Mexican borders including the dead bodies that the find in the process?

41 Oct-18   From: oafishcad   To: jcasimir1
You are mixing apples and oranges. No one is against immigration. I realize that you are so far above your fellow Americans that you think we are against immigration and immigrants-we are not. We're against the CRIMINALS who are illegally in the USA. To say they are anything other than CRIMINALS is incorrect. Their first act upon entering the USA is to break our laws. But you are also right that reform will never happen.
42 Oct-18   From: GREAT GRANNY   To: dhs121968

HIP,HIP,HOORAY,I'm with you.
43 Oct-18   From: jammerman101   To: ALL
If they really wanted to do anything about illegals they would go after the employers that use them starting with public officals . These people are really caught in the crossfire . They are poor , and know they can make money for their families here . Contractors often hire them by the truck load . Being illegals they are exposed to all kinds of abuse , yet they come , putting their trust in god . They are hired by the rich to tend lawns and be maids . Anything you don't want to pay a fair wage for they will do . Several factories here have been busted trying to use them . O'Sullivans the company that makes ready to assemble furniture , maybe your computer desk , or entertainment center . Con Agra foods is a classic . They do chicken , and no longer felt like paying american wages or insurance .

I don't blame hungry people for coming here looking to work , I blame greedy americans , and companies for trying to get something for nothing . These people end up being slaves by american standards . They work without insurance , and for far lower wages than an american could . They deserve some respect in my book ,,,unlike the companies that hired them , and if the fines are small enough why would it stop???

44 Oct-18   From: angrrrd1   To: ALL
...without immediate revolution, America is dead.
45 Oct-18   From: delsol3851   To: Dayhawk Kim
I THINK THAT US HOMELAND ALWAYS LOOKS AT INMIGRATION AS A PROBLEM

WHEN IN REALITY THEY SHOULD WORRY ABOUT OTHER ISSUES. I AGREE WE HAVE A

PROBLEM BUT WHY DON'T THEY EVER SEE THE BENIFITS. FOR INSTANCE EVERY ILLEGAL WORKING IN THE

U.S PAYS TAXES THOSE TAXES THAT ARE BEING TAKEN OUT ALL GO FOR US FUNDS SOCIAL SECURTY,

EDUCATION,WELFARE ETC.THEY ALSO CONTIBUTE GREATLY TO THE US ECONOMY THEY BUY HOMES,CARS

CLOTHING, ETC. IF THEY THROW THEM OUT WOULD'NT THE US BE IN DEBT WITH THE AMERICANS?

THEY SHOULD REALLY CONSIDER A REFORM FOR INMIGRANTS REGARDLESS OF THEIR NATIONALITY.

WHY IS IT THAT MEXICANS ARE THE FIRST TO BE NAMED. WE HAVE PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD,WE HAVE RUSSIANS,POLISH,CHINESE ,JAPANESE,DOMINICANS,SALVADORIANS,GUATEMALENS,ETC.

WHEN THEY SPEAK ABOUT ILLEGALS THEY SHOULDN'T REFER JUST TI ONE MINORITY

46 Oct-18   From: oafishcad   To: jammerman101
The people who come here illegally have my empathy. They still are criminals, and should pay the price of their criminality, as should those who hire them. Our porous borders not only make us less safe, they drive down wages and benefits for those here legally and help insure that countries where these people come from don't have to change and become more equitable, because the stopgap of America is always available.
47 Oct-18   From: delsol3851   To: hbsch
I don't agree. They pay taxes ,purchase homes,cars in one way or another they end up contributing
48 Oct-18   From: armnpet   To: Dayhawk Kim
As I was reading the forum, I was quite disturbed to see that almost all of them says either get rid of them (illegals) by anyway possible including shoot to kill them. Before we say that I think we must remember how we Americans, our fore fathers build this country and declared as a country. Did we not built this country by invading the land and killing many American Indians. Did we not practically stole this land by force and stick our flags, putting boundries around and called our land and so proudly, United States of America? DO NOT get me wrong, I am 100% against the illegals. But we ourselves once was total illegals with weapons of mass destruction (I mean compared to arrows and bows). NO NO NO, we were not just illegals, we were INVADERS who killed innocent people. I know we tried to make friends to some and we succeeded but many failed. Yes I am talking history, U.S. history.... I am merely suggesting , instead of making a big lame argument or critisize the government or employers, find a practical solution and provide them to your government or make a civil organization to lead your opinion to change. After all this great nation is of people, by the people and for the people democratic country, isnt it? I dont have a real good solution for the illegals, so I vote for someone who I think is going to use their brain and intelligence to fix problems...and I just hope they do the good job....
49 Oct-18   From: delsol3851   To: moviecash
Learn to spell correctly then make an opinion
50 Oct-18   From: oafishcad   To: moviecash
<<I am tired of all the lucy and larry liberals that say we are a county of immagrents>>

Reagan gave illegals amnesty. Bush wants to give illegals amnesty-are those the lucy and larry liberals of whom you speak? Seems to me it's the two faced conservatives who actually bend the US over and grease us up for more illegals.

51 Oct-18   From: rohanco   To: Dayhawk Kim
I believe undocumented immigrants should be allowed to gain legal status and to apply for citizenship at a later date. Most of the letters are blatantly racist and it shows. I am sure most of these letters were written by Anglos and maybe some minorities but very few, if any. Get used to it folks, because whether you like it or not, Spanish is the second language in this country. I
hope all you hate mongers remember that if you ever need help one day that the person who helped you might have spoken Spanish and was from Mexico or from some place else other than here.
52 Oct-18   From: motu9   To: Dayhawk Kim
All ILLEGAL aliens should be deported and there should be no question. If they are here legally that is different. In order for anyone of them to be allowed to stay, they should have to pay taxes just like every other worker does. I don't think they take too many jobs away from the Americans, but these jobs could be given to welfare clients so they don't get a free ride either.
53 Oct-18   From: vantulsa   To: Dayhawk Kim
The Rich want all those cheap workers here that's why nothing is being done about it. Plus If we give them citizenship....Mexicans vote primarily Republican...thus dis placing the black population which votes mostly democratic. NEw world order....little at at time at any cost.

Short term gains without considering the long term consiquences. That's the USA's biggest problem across the board.

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55 Oct-18   From: TROOPER   To: ritexcorp
I would respond to your post but you are obviously too narrowminded to be reasonable.
56 Oct-18   From: martinez5757   To: Pegifer1
Ok lets expel all illegal aliens, you white folks forget you're not the type to get out there and pick all crops these people come here to do, by this I mean black folks too. So you say put the citizens currently on welfare to work, like this is going to happen? Chertoff, doesn't know or has a clue of how it is to live like an illegal alien or any of you folks that talk more than you chew.
57 Oct-18   From: martinez5757   To: 112002.1377
Hey bud I don't know what nationality you might be?

I'm from El Salvador, been in this great nation for over 35 years now. When I came to the US I didn't speak a word of english, now years later I've worked all of my life, speak english and write it better than the average native US born citizen.

 I'm referring to your posted message, even online they have spell-checking free software, use it.

By the way, I came here as a legal permanent resident thanks to my father that immigrated all of us eight children in compliance with U.S. Immigration laws.

58 Oct-18   From: memshui   To: Dayhawk Kim
Let's start with all the Europeans that came here to steal the land & resources and called themselves "American." Now they're calling natives of the continent aliens while they are from across the ocean from another country entirely. Taught American history isn't really American history but European history while true American history tends to be hidden for the truth in the brutal treatment and theft by White Europeans. This will someday be revealed just like their treatment of Africans and what an embarrassment that will be for all of the arrogant generations of Europeans who went to their graves haughty in their ignorance of their true legacy. What a sick, sick people the future is going to see!
59 Oct-18   From: Neutral   To: Dayhawk Kim
\\ How do you think the U.S. should approach illegal immigration?//

The first move, or lack of one, should be to wait until the Bush administration is out of office and let the next one handle it. Everything this administration has touched in nearly five years has turned into sh-t.

60 Oct-18   From: wrs   To: memshui
This story of them only doing jobs that American citizens don't want is a lot of liberal CR-P. They're working in the aircraft industry, electricians, bricklayers, carpenters, etc. all skilled work. It's very simple. If you want to come here, you obey the laws of this country. We have in place legal methods for foreign workers to come here to work. HOWEVER, these ILLEGALs choose to disobey our laws. Many of them are criminals and when they commit crimes here, they flee back to Mexico and we don't even know they're here in the first place. Gather them ALL up, return them to their native country, and then process them LEGALLY to return. That garbage about we earlier immigrants coming here doesn't hold water. I came in through Ellis Island, and had to meet all the health, mental and financial tests. These wetbacks come in and we support them with out tax dollars. Throw the rascals out!!!! You gutless people are afraid if we export these illegals, we'll wreck the Mexican economy....GOOD! Then perhaps they'll get busy and insist on decent government instead of the bandits in power now!
61 Oct-18   From: martinez5757   To: karen1dec
It is people like you that make this world a worst place to live. First of all, you don't even have a clue of all the tasks and duties these illegals you're talking about contribute to this nation. So you say they don't pay taxes? how would you know?

The fact is all illegals pay the same amount of taxes as any legal worker here in the U.S. with the exception they, the majority don't file for income tax refunds like you or me do. Where is all the tax monies they paid?

You might try to get in touch with the IRS, but I bet it is in the billions, who is benefiting here? You seem to be a smart subject, can you figure it out?

"morons" is a word that is not used often enough........

62 Oct-18   From: martinez5757   To: marktfremont
First of all why don't you try learning how to write and then maybe jump in these forums, idiots....
63 Oct-18   From: marktfremont   To: rohanco
hope all you hate mongers remember that if you ever need help one day that the person who helped you might have spoken Spanish and was from Mexico or from some place else other than here.

 

Doesn't change the premise of this thread one bit,you're missing the point entirely.

 

Mark Fremont

64 Oct-18   From: bayoukey   To: Dayhawk Kim
there are no jobs americans won't do..only employers who will not pay a living wage, taxes, or abide by goverment regulations. These are who the laws should target first and foremost
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66 Oct-18   From: pkj81   To: Dayhawk Kim
Absolutely!! Send them home! They are a drain on our economy, our health care, our welfare, our resources (key word here is OUR) not theirs. Why is it that they can just drop in from Mexico or where ever and have a baby and that baby is a US citizen???? Of course they have no money so they are automatically signed up for welfare ...where they sit for the next 5 years having more "free" babies.

How many more gangs do we have b/c of this? How many more prisoners do we have b/c of this? How much more do we pay for auto insurance b/c of this? They don't abide by the rules.. They dont have car insurance, etc...

It is out of hand and it is ridicoulis... The United States needs to close its borders like every other country has done.

The cuban immigrants need to be sent back to cuba... The "wet feet/dry feet" policy is stupid.. Who is the genius that came up with that one??

When Jimmy Carter let them all in here...it took one year for them to ruin Miami and they own the Miami Airport now... Not bad for coming here without anything!!!! AMERICA------WAKE UP!

I resent having spanish along with the english on food/instructions etc...... This is America....the language is ENGLISH.... like it or LEAVE IT!!

67 Oct-18   From: karen1dec   To: martinez5757
First of all, you don't even have a clue of all the tasks and duties these illegals you're talking about contribute to this nation. So you say they don't pay taxes? how would you know?

Contribute? They take jobs from American Citizens. If you didn't have a job and an ILLEGAL (any other country) that was working a job you would like to have, you might change your tune.

How do I KNOW that a lot don't pay taxes? Because they work for cash. I have had them walk into my office to apply for a job (with an interpreter) and offer to take the job for half of what it pays if I will pay cash. I do not hire them but I have no control over who other legitimate business hire.

I contracted for a roof for my company. $56,000 plus supplies. It was a legitimate roofing company. The day they started the roof the bilingual foreman showed up with 4 non-english speaking Mexicans. In the course of conversation with another employee I was told they were illegal and they were getting paid 50 dollars a day (cash)and those days were10 hours long.. Let's see for 5 days each laborer made 250 for the week x 4=1,000 plus the 1,000 the roofing company paid for insurance to cover them on our property. Now I'd say by using slave labor and after a minimum of expenses he pocketed at least 52 grand on one job.

I hired a legitimate company to do our lawn once a week. Thats 700 a month and of course 3 non english speaking Mexicans show up and it takes about 2 hours. They make 5 dollars an hour. They might do 5 to 8 lawns 24/7-365. Slave labor-getting paid cash - no taxes paid.

Now in Texas we have thousands of Mexican ILLEGALS but there is little doubt that there are illegals here from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi, Columbia, El Salvador, Haiti, Cuba to name a few. Last year several Middle Eastern types were caught being smuggled in.

It is people like you that make this world a worst place to live

Then so be it. I would rather live in a country that is free of ILLEGALS where I might feel a little safer from terroists or Cuba's empty jails.

68 Oct-18   From: sgtrockgomez   To: Dayhawk Kim
why don't you all of you white and black folk go back where you came from. If you don't like it here just leave.And,please take all your weapons,machinery and diseases with you. Oh yea, take your jealous,greedy god with you.

Thank you very much

 

69 Oct-18   From: mmacampuzano   To: 112002.1377
I believe imigrants are coming to the United States because they want to live a better life. When they come from their countries they work hard for their money here to help support their families back home . I say this because my own family is from Mexico. I have been their and have seen how hard life is their.
70 Oct-18   From: Lachoy2   To: Dayhawk Kim
Of course the illegal immigrants should be expelled. This is not even a question we should be asking. As American citizens we should be asking why it hasn't been initiated and demanding to know why financial institutions are giving illegals mortgages and some states are issuing drivers' licenses for them. Why are their children considered legal citizens? Why are they receiving free medical care, education, shelter, food etc.? Why are employers blatantly sending them to our homes to undertake contract work that our own people should be doing? Why are we, as consumers, not asking who is putting the roof on our house or putting the new addition on our home? If we want to be serious about this, then we should refuse to let any contractor/company show up with Mexican labor and allow them make a profit with them. If the person doing your yard work can't speak to you in your language, then he doesn't need to be doing your lawn. There are plenty of US citizens who are willing to perform these services, regardless of what the government and business people want us to think. My personal indignation hit the fan when our local Walmart started making announcements in Spanish!!!!!!!!! An employee who was stocking at the time I first heard this was almost amused at my shock. She agreed it was not her favorite thing, but I suppose those of us who sit around complaining about this aren't making enough of a scene at these institutions to make a dent in this mess. How about making a pact with yourself that you will make a noise with any business that supports the bilingual policy in their stores? This may not put a stop to the practice, but it may just slow it down or force some hands.

Bush just signed a new bill that will supposedly strengthen the border etc. The big "gotcha" here is that he still clings to the so-called "guest worker" program that you, I and every damned illegal on the street knows is a joke. There was an immigration attorney on our local news who admitted that no illegal will leave after a three year stint here. A woman called into a C-Span segment on illegals the other day with a sad story about her two years of pursuing disabled status, without medical coverage and her run in with an illegal who was presented with a bill in the emergency room. The Mexican laughed and then explained that she was illegal and was under no obligation to pay anyone anything. The woman on disability was required to be billed, I know this truth only too well because this same scenario has happened to me repeatedly. Illegals sucking up resources that I had to do without for two years on disability and then "copping an attitude" about their elevated status. Just poor, sweet, hard-working immigrants who want to be Americans? LOLOLOLOLOL! Oh Please. They're leeches and they need to be extracted. No guest workers, no Spanish language pandering, no health coverage, no jobs, no freebies, no more invasion and no more humiliation at the hands of our own government officials. Let's wipe the smirk off the illegals' faces.

71 Oct-18   From: jbdancers   To: Dayhawk Kim
The surging tide of Mexican/Latinos is drowning these United States! I think we have waited too long to rid ourselves of their overwhelming presence. Consider how we are forced to read Spanish on aisles at stores, while store loud speakers give announcements in Spanish. Every product you buy has instructions written in Spanish. My God!!! This is the United States of America! I feel like I am living in Mexico. As a Texan I feel the battle at our beloved Alamo is being fought all over again and we are losing "Big Time"...again! I have Mexican friends that I adore. They all speak English. If we weren't at war, I think our troops are needed at the Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California borders. Illegal immigrants would suffer serious consequenses. Mexico's Vincinte Fox gets anything he wants when negotiating with the USA...he gives nothing!! He could stop mass immigration if he wasn't so anxious to rid Mexico of his own people! Our government is to blame for continually kissing his behind ! It is a shame private citizens in our border states have had to resort to militia tactics trying to protect their own property and the property of others!! And we are trying to "stop their efforts"??!! As I said, it is too late to rid ourselves of the hundreds of thousands of illegals. We don't even arrest those who hire them. It will take a tougher government than we have had over the years. Thanks for listening.
72 Oct-18   From: brumley876wm   To: chrisd19
I WILL GO ALONG WITH THE ARREST CHRIS.

SEND THEM BACK SO I MAY HAVE MY S S CHECK THAT I PAID IN TO FOR 42 YRS.

 

DON

73 Oct-18   From: ppamjo2   To: ALL
I agree 100%! Get them out of here.... Too many of these people are getting across the boarder and getting the easy life... If they want to become a citizen of the USA then they should go through the proper channels.

I think that it is a real shame that so many of these people come in to our country and do not even take the legal way to gain citizenship.

I think that anyone that wants to get the US citizenship should go through a background check just to rule out sny possible threat to bring harm to others.. All countries should do this... I hope that the boarders do a better job at keeping aliens out...

74 Oct-19   From: guyanesegurly   To: Dayhawk Kim
No i think it is unfair for them to be deported because they came over here for a better living.... TO APPLY legally they would wait years up to 15 years to just get a visa den 5 years after that to be a citizen some people dont realize how hard it is to get availibilty to get here and for them its a must the living in third world countries is somthign that most americans even the low income have never felt and to give them a chance takes a life time i think they should go easy on illegal immagrants that are here already because they escaped their life to a better one to just put them back in the same postion that is not fair ... i know some illegal immagrants that do everythign to try get a visa or citizenship and their getting denied... and they work for there money and striving for a better living but americans that doesnt have a open horizon dont see that they just see that they are illegal immagrants and they have no right being here wasting there money but look at it as your helping someone's life.
75 Oct-19   From: bjgomul   To: 103662.413
Thank goodness I live in Florida where a new law was just passed stating that we have the right to shoot anyone who comes into our home uninvited.
76 Oct-19   From: jcasimir1   To: oafishcad
<<We're against the CRIMINALS who are illegally in the USA. To say they are anything other than CRIMINALS is incorrect.>>

just to be picky-picky, they're not criminals until arrested, prosecuted, and convicted, then to be incarcerated or deported. now they're mostly just sent back across the border to enter again.

nonetheless, point well taken. but 11 million people is a lot of criminals. the economy has come to rely on them (see previous post). most important, per guest worker legislation now pending, in somewhat similar democratic and republican versions, current illegals will stop being considered criminals upon establishment of proof of residence, verification of employment, and payment of a not insubtantial fee.

this amnesty is of course opposed on the grounds that it excuses unlawful behavior, and supported as a means to keep a useful labor force here and at work, while restricting and prosecuting further illegal aliens.

whatever compromise passes, whether we like it or not, michael chertoff's new policies notwithstanding, they're here to stay.

kind regards,

casimir

77 Oct-19   From: harsheditor   To: Dayhawk Kim
I agree, for reasons of national security, that we must control our borders. I disagree, however, with many of the comments I read stating that illegals are a burden on our economy.

It is true that the vast majority of them pay no direct taxes other than sales tax. Their employers, however, cannot deduct wages paid to the illegals and thus are forced to pay income taxes at a higher rate than the illegals would pay if they were paying taxes. It could be correctly said that illegals pay taxes in the form of low wages. Additionally, because illegals have little hope of American home ownership, they rent and pay property taxes as a part of that rent and provide profit vehicles for American landlords who in turn pay both property and income taxes.

The loudest debates over both legal and illegal immigration occur during periods of economic recession. At those times illegal immigrants might really be taking jobs some Americans might wish to have. I would have to check my numbers to verify accuracy, but offhand I would estimate that our economy is actually in recession less than ten percent of the time. The other 90% of the time our robust economy is able to offer full employment to both citizens and immigrants.

Immigrants are not taking jobs people on the welfare roles would perform. Separate welfare from unemployment insurance. Welfare is given to our lowest earning (or no earning) societal segment, which is, in my opinion, did little to prepare for productive life and continue to use that same lack of ambition during what should be their productive years. I have been an employer and know people can be divided into two groups, one that wants a paycheck and the other that wants a job (paycheck of course included). Only members of the second group typically learn the skills to progress through the ranks, pay levels, and classes of society. Welfare is something we actually pay to our least ambitious people to stay out of our way. Putting such people to work accomplishes nothing. Using illegal immigrants is a much more attractive alternative to the completion of our most distasteful and sometimes most dangerous tasks. These people are obviously sufficiently ambitious to move to follow their dreams and find work. In this regard they are typically the best their countries have to offer.

Medicaid and our government-sponsored hospitals are where the burden can fall. We get stuck with the bills when illegal aliens have babies or break their arms. They don't qualify for many other programs because their illegal status precludes application for most other types of aid. My response to this perceived burden is "so what." It is not that I want to pay for the undeserving, but this is built in to their low wage structure. As already stated, they do pay taxes both directly and indirectly. This and their low wages are part of that bargain -- and is part of the system we created. When we started denying illegal immigrants social security cards, and when we criminalized hiring them, it became impossible for employers to directly tax illegals and offer them insurance. The medical care provided to illegal immigrants is actually a subsidy paid to the citizens and legal residents who hire them. It comes back to society at large in the form of lower prices facilitated by these subsidies and by the higher taxation rates paid by the employer instead of the employee. In a complete examination of things, it all comes out in the wash.

We don't need new laws to stop illegal immigration. If we really want to stop illegal immigration, all we need to do is enforce the laws we already have. Illegal immigrants are subject to deportation at any moment, and employers of illegal immigrants are subject to a ten thousand dollar fine, per illegal alien, for hiring them. We will never have to enforce these laws, however, because our market economy will do it for us. If we reach a point at which unemployment often endures beyond unemployment insurance, and our own citizens cannot change their unemployment status via domestic relocation, wages will go down and our own citizens will be willing to work for the wages we now pay illegal aliens. If that happens, employers will jump at the chance to hire legally instead of illegally, because they reduce their own income tax burden by doing so, while eliminating the risk of prosecution they endure while hiring illegals. If our economy reaches these levels, we automatically solve the problem of illegal immigration by removing the attraction of available jobs. We need neither to create new laws nor enforce the ones we already have. The solution is built into a free market economy governed by the laws of supply and demand.

I consider myself a fairly ambitious American citizen, and I've completed three college degrees to prepare myself for productive life. My stand on illegal immigration is fairly simple: until I see an illegal immigrant doing a job that precludes the realization of my ambitions, I just won't worry about it. Think the issues through before reacting to the words illegal and alien. Think past the rhetoric of politicians who use the gut level reaction to those words to justify their inability to manage their economies. Illegal aliens are dreamers sufficiently motivated to face the dangers of illegal entry and sufficiently motivated to face the fear of strange places where they usually don't even speak the language. How many of us would face the same dangers and brave the same fears to work (and work hard) for what we, as a society, are willing to pay them? As a rule, these are people worthy of true respect and not the scorn we typically pay them. I fail to see any real justification for our negative reactions and rhetoric. I simply fail to see the problem.

78 Oct-19   From: jcasimir1   To: jamesc748
too little, too late.

catch up with congress. per pending guest worker legislation, in somewhat similar democratic and republican versions, current illegal workers will be permitted to stay upon proof of residence, verification of employment, and payment of a not insubstantial fee. further, the bills provide that any further illegals will be apprehended and expelled.

i do reasonably expect that laws against burglary will be enforced, although i'm fairly well insured, and the cops rarely recover burgled goods. current immigration laws are not being enforced, perhaps cannot be enforced, so they change.

whether we like it or not, it is the 11 million illegals -- a large number to catch and deport -- whom the economy has come to depend on. without them, the crops rot in the fields, the chicken doesn't become mcnuggets, hotels can't make beds, shirts are not sewn, restaurants can't cook shrimp with lobster sauce, and so on.

also catch up with demographics. economic growth depends on population growth. a replacement birth rate, 2.3 children per household, is not growth. (see BLS and SSA for detailed data.) europe and japan have recognized this too late, and indeed their human services are hard pressed to keep up with a growing population of the old, and a shrinking population of the productive.

as to skills, ask intel, microsoft, IBM, any enterprise depending on technology, how difficult it is for them to recruit qualified people. H1-B visas have been severely restricted, to the point that perfectly legal foreign talent is being kept out. (see INS for specifics.) fewer american-born people are getting advanced degrees in the sciences and engineering. in fact, the majority of those credentials are now going to the foreign-born, some of whom stay, many of whom return home to their own high-tech industries.

"predominantly low-skilled, uneducated...most of whom cannot even speak english." well, except for the irish, that describes the people who came here for low-wage work, built the country by hand, and in spite of resistance from not only the anglo-saxon establishment but the people who arrived a few boats before, brought forth generations of highly skilled, highly educated entrepreneurs and professionals. so there's not only hope but precedent.

besides, the irish became cops and firemen. only a minority turned into corrupt democratic machine politicians. and not all of them drink to excess.

oh. rest assured that any jihadis intent on doing us harm will most likely enter legally with their papers in order, as the perpetrators of 9/11 did. there are much more efficient ways to stop terrorists than by sealing the borders. also, suitcase nukes would not be carry-on or checked baggage.
yeah, well, my ancestors' government sold out to the british for some nutmeg plantations, but they did OK, even after their human resources import business was shut down.

meantime, i do see a lot more jaguars in town, and fewer mercedeses, supposedly because of quality issues, probably caused more by inept german management and featherbedding german workers than by turkish guest laborers.

kind regards,

casimir

79 Oct-19   From: menchaca55555   To: dhs121968
GOOD ANSWER, I value your thoughts and your opinion on this matter, I totally agree with you 100 percent.
80 Oct-19   From: menchaca55555   To: marktfremont
RIGHT ON THE MARK, MARK, I agree with you totally 100 percent. HOOAH!!!
81 Oct-19   From: kell4276   To: ritexcorp
Anything that anyone in the Bush regime, the Bush mafia proposes, chertoff this means you, must be taken with a fistful of salt, because they are only interested in ripping off the american public.

hey sweets..no one has a problem with LEGAL immigrants. Its the illegal ones that are reaping the benefits of our tax dollars while our own legal citizens get pushed aside. Wake up already! K

82 Oct-19   From: laurdolphin36   To: ALL
I HAVE TO SAY THAT IT IS REALLY RIDICULOUS TO SPEND BILLIONS TO SEND IMMIGRANTS BACK TO THEIR HOME LANDS, ESPECIALLY THE MEXICAN PEOPLE SINCE THEY DO ALL THE AGRICULTURAL LABOR THAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO DO BECAUSE IT'S TO HARD OF WORK. THE MEXICAN PEOPLE COME ACROSS SPENDING SO MUCH OF THEIR HARD EARNED DOLLARS THAT THEY REALLY DON'T HAVE, TO PAY THE COYOTES TO BRING THEM ACROSS, SO WHAT IT REALLY COMES DOWN TO IS THAT YOU ARE ALLOWING THESE COYOTES TO BECOME MORE AND MORE RICH AS THE YEARS PASS AND THEN YOU SPEND OUR HARD EARNED TAX DOLLARS TO SEND THEM BACK HOME WHEN THEY ARE CAUGHT. THE LOGICAL RESPONSE TO THIS PROBLEM IS TO ISSUE THEM A NUMBER LIKE A SS NUMBER SO THEY WOULD HAVE TO PAY TAXES, WHICH BY THE WAY WOULD BE A BENEFIT TO US TAX PAYERS AS WELL AS THE GOVERNMENT. THERE ARE SO MANY PEOPLE CHEATING THE GOVERNMENT BY SELLING THEIR SS #'S AND THEIR IDENTIFICATION TO THESE IMMIGRANTS THEY ARE GAINING ALL THE SS THAT THE IMMIGRANT IS PAYING IN AND ALL THE BENEFITS FROM THE EXTRA TAXES THEY ARE PAYING ACCORDING TO THE IRS BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE THEY MADE SO MUCH MORE INCOME THAN THEY REALLY DID. GET IT. SO HOW HARD IS IT TO GIVE THESE HARD WORKING IMMIGRANTS A LEGAL CHANCE TO WORK HERE? IT'S NOT LIKE THEY ARE GONG TO TAKE OVER THE USA. THINK OF WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THE AGRICULTURE IF THERE WAS NO IMMIGRANTS TO DO WHAT THEY DO. THE NUMBER COULD BE ISSUED FOR ONLY CERTAIN TIMES ECT. I'M SURE SOMETHING COULD BE FIGURED OUT. THEY ARE NOT GOING TO STOP COMING, THEY DO THE HARD WORK NO ONE ELSE WANTS TO DO AND ALL WITHOUT A SINGLE COMPLAINT. SO WHAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH THAT. I'M SURE THEY WILL CONTINUE TO SPEND BILLIONS ON RETURNING IMMIGRANTS TO THEIR HOMELAND THAT IS SO STUPID. THINK OF THE MONEY THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO BE GIVING TO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE SELLING THEIR IDENTITIES ILLEGALLY TO THESE IMMIGRANTS. THEY ARE GETTING AWAY WITH IT AND THE GOVERNMENT KEEPS SENDING THE ILLEGALS BACK AT THE COST OF THOSE OF US WHO WORK HARD FOR OUR MONEY LEGALLY!
83 Oct-19   From: The Wop   To: Dayhawk Kim
Illegal immigration is very costly to the U.S. economy--we must draw our line in the sand, or our national border will mean less than nothing. A guest worker type program might indicate our largesse while at the same time discouraging slackers and extended families.
Mexicans and Canadians are fine--
Just not in my welfare line.

N.I.M.B.Y.-->Not In My Back Yard

84 Oct-19   From: The Wop   To: grsb174
WRITE ON! and DITTO!
85 Oct-19   From: kell4276   To: laurdolphin36
IT'S NOT LIKE THEY ARE GONG TO TAKE OVER THE USA.

dude, they multiply like rabbits..give it a few years :)

JK..

K

86 Oct-19   From: laurdolphin36   To: kell4276
I SEE PLENTY OF AMERICANS WHO MULTIPLY LIKE RABBITS AND EVEN TAKE ON MORE THAN ONE WIFE....
87 Oct-19   From: laurdolphin36   To: Dayhawk Kim
I HAVE TO ADD THAT I VOLUNTEER FOR THE RED CROSS AND IN SEEING WHAT HAS HAPPENED DURING THE HURRICANES, AND WHAT IS GOING ON AFTER, THOSE BILLIONS THAT HAVE BEEN WASTED ON SENDING IMMIGRANTS BACK MIGHT HAVE BEEN AVAILABLE FOR ALL THE PEOPLE NOW SUFFERING BECAUSE THERE IS NOT ENOUGH MONEY TO HELP THEM. MAYBE THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD CONCENTRATE ON MORE FUNDS DIRECTED TOWARDS NATURAL DISASTER RELIEF! OR MAYBE AS SOME OF YOU HAVE REPLIED WHY DON'T WE JUST SHOOT THEM. NOW THERES THE ANSWER TO EVERYTHING!!!!!! IDIOTS!
88   From: ALL   To: ALL
89 Oct-19   From: doha1973   To: grsb174
As we bring troops home from Iraq, they should be posted along the borders to

assist in the control of illegal entry. This could free BP agents to return to the towns and cities and begin collecting and deporting all illegals.. The holding of hearings before deporting is unnecessary and wasteful. If they don't have the

necessary papers of a legal alien they should go immediately! If they are not

Mexican, so be it. Let Fox worry about illegals in his country for awhile. He doesn't mind supplying them to us.

90 Oct-19   From: laurdolphin36   To: doha1973
WHY DON'T WE JUST BUILD A WALL JUST LIKE IN BERLIN. I THOUGHT WE WERE A FREE COUNTRY.
91 Oct-19   From: piratewench69   To: ALL
As someone who lives in one of the border states and has seen the impact of illegal immigration, I'd like to put my thoughts into the fray here.
The first, overriding factor is, yes, "illegal". We have laws regarding the procedures for entering this country for purposes of work and residency. Circumventing those laws makes the person a criminal, albeit an unconvicted one until caught, tried and convicted, as in any other crime. The motive is immaterial.
Two, sure, illegals are coming here for a better life. Everyone works toward a better life, don't they? If we are going to simply accept hordes of people with no skills because their quality of life is less appealing than ours, than I propose we start with refugees from corrupt and starving AFrican countries. At least they can present real evidence of hardship. Of course America is a country of immigrants. The difference is that previous generations of all backgrounds came here legally, and didn't live off the largesse of the state.
You really think that illegals pay their fair share? Think about it. They are employed illegally. Their employer is either knowingly employing them by paying them under the table, or is pretending to not know their status and is paying into tax and social security programs using a fake ss number that the employee provided. This of course, is assuming said illegal is working at all. Bear in mind that every illegal female that gives birth in this country is now the mother of an American citizen, which the state/country is obliged to care for, as it is a minor. This is the very easiest route to get aid and stay here, and illegals take full advantage of it. Hospitals along the border have closed due to the influx of illegals who cross to give birth without the money to paid for services. The wait in an emergency room in many areas is now in the range of 12 hours minimum, due to the fact that illegals use hospitals for every ailment, and of course don't pay.
Overbreeding is a serious issue. If you can't afford to feed, clothe and house a child, don't have it. Don't expect that everyone else should pay for it. Schools are packed with children of illegals. These children frequently do not speak English, and so require even more tax dollars to educate than an English speaking student. They qualify for lunch programs, breakfast programs, after school programs.
Our jails are packed with illegals who have been arrested for violent crimes. Incarcerating them costs the taxpayers a huge amount of money. Many many more are roaming the streets as members of violent gangs.
The notion that illegals perform jobs that no one else will do is ludicrous. Who did these jobs before the influx of illegals? The real fact is that people who employ illegals do it because it is CHEAP. Americans have become too lazy to mow their own lawns or even take care of their own children, but they don't want to pay decent wages for the work, so they hire illegals who will work cheap. If we weren't forking out so many tax dollars on benefits and costs for illegals, we could afford to pay proper wages for citizens to do the work. If you are hungry or are the parent of a hungry child, no job is too demeaning if it will buy food.
Jobs, benefits and everything else that goes with being an American are the rights of Americans, not anyone who jumps the border looking to play the system.
Sorry for rambling on :-)
92 Oct-19   From: dhs121968   To: laurdolphin36
FREE TO WHO,THE ILLEGALS?
WHERES THE MINUTEMEN?
93 Oct-19   From: ssmthrch   To: Dayhawk Kim
GO IN ALL HOMES & GET ALL OF THEM.Wednesday, October 19, 2005
94 Oct-19   From: javnma   To: karen1dec
Not so, the type of work these people do your average american citizen won't even touch.. instead they will line the offices of the welfare office and expect a hand out from our dependent government! that is where the government wants the citizens of the United States of America ,to depend on them... these offices are full of lazy white average drug addict recovering alcoholics(they don't want to work)... and they are the ones crying the most.. this nation depends on cheap labor ,how do you think the rich man got where he is today,and that isnot by paying fare wages!
95 Oct-19   From: C'estmoi   To: carldezur5000
I read thousands of americans were offered a job for two years, a place to live, transportation to and from the job site, and food. That is aside from being paid a good salary. This is New Orleans. The people that are working are the Mexicans and Central Americans. They are cleaning up N.O. so that the poor put-upon blacks can go back to a clean non-poisonous environment

One black man said "I can't go back now, it's contaminated. I will live in a good hotel and get vouchers for food from FEMA. This big fat lazy person was in a casino, buying almost a thousand dollars in chips ( I said 1000 dollars) That thousand dollars won't go far in the casino.

Kick the illegals out????? Who will put New Orleans back together again?????? The lazy, "gimme something for nothing" black men????? I don't think so. I volunteered to help, and found many black men doing nothing all day, just sitting around till the next meal is served.

I am disgusted. Will anything make those men GET OFF THEIR LAZY ASSES AND WORK? I don't think so when Fema is there to throw money at them

96 Oct-19   From: unidosss12   To: ALL
The answer to the problem might be to actually determine what exactly is the problem. I don't pretend to know just because I've heard this or read that. It sounds like so many other solutions to mystery problems that have created new and bigger factually based conflicts. So then managing those conflicts becomes the focus and whatever the perceived problem was is lost, muddied, in short a non-issue because it only existed in the minds of a narrow minded segment of the population and their political wing. Wait a minute, sounds to me like this immigrant proposal could really be opportunity for me to show my patriotism and throw my support at the polls to the genuises who are behind it. or maybe I could do some primary source research and form my own opinion. not just take a label and find a couple of examples to reinforce the label of economic draining, job pirating, non-english speaking, hard working, family oriented, tax paying(with no chance of receiving a refund), spiritually based, dependable, wonderful additions to fabric of this country not excuses for my own lack of achievement.

But if trying to turn back the hands of time works lets get those gas pumps to go below a buck a gallon again. It's not going to happen. At know time in history has a wave of immigration or migration lead to the downfall of this country nor will it know. It has shown to cause growing pains and over time when the rhetoric, resentments, and prejudice subsides acceptance and the benefits of the largest minority in OUR country will start to be realized.

97 Oct-19   From: johmygosh   To: carldezur5000
I totally agree all ILLEGAL aliens should be expelled promptly, no hearings, no delays, no appeals, EXPEL PROMPTLY same day as caught. What other country in the world allows Illegals to flood their country. My suggestion also is to flood Mexico with American illegals and then we shall see what Mr. Fox does. Our education system, the welfare system, the Health system, indeed all our facets of daily life are affected by these huge numbers of illegal aliens flooding our country. Is it any wonder that hispanics are now the largest minority here? Duhhh!!!!
98 Oct-19   From: Pegifer1   To: debbadr
I think it is a practical proposal that we implement guest worker program, provided they require them to learn english, file taxes for five years before they will be eligible to apply for green card.They will be given green card only if they prove that they did not misuse their stay by applying for welfare.

Sounds like a good plan. Welfare should be TOTALLY out of the question for anyone who is not a citizen.

They will be fined severely if they have felony conviction and have been involved in criminal activities.

At that point they should be sent back, permanently!


They should be given free medical care and it should be paid by the employers who want to sponsor them and take the responsibility that they will be not be a burden on the society.

Why should they be given free medical care? If they want to come here for a better life that is understandable. However, they should not get more benefits than our citizens. Ludicrous

99 Oct-19   From: nadicicer   To: karen1dec
I think most of you are just prejudice, arrogant, ignorant etc....pick one. I totally agree that this nation was built by immigrants. Take a look around, the whole freaking world revolves around immigration and trade. You're worried that they're sucking up our welfare etc. 3/4's of them can't even get welfare and most of the americans on welfare for whatever reason stay on it because they don't WANT to work! Maybe if we were'nt so lazy our jobs would't be given away. We take so many things for granted until we're in jeopardy of losing them. My family are LEGAL immigrants however, I've heard stories of young children being brought here to the "land of the free" against their will by their family (illegally). Then they grow up here and have to pay for the mistakes that they had nothing to do with because you're jealous?! Send them back to what? This is now the only home they know. I think i'm for that little working program. It's better than ya'll doing s@#t complaining about it.
100 Oct-19   From: C'estmoi   To: kell4276
Wake up and smell the coffee. Without the illegals, nothing would get done. New Orleans would be a wasteland because the people that lived there do not want to be and work in the contamination. It's ok with those poor black men to be put up in good hotels, meals paid for, until the work is done. Only then will they go back and continue to live off the black women, or more now, white women.

I wanted to be a permanent part of Red Cross, but after volunteering and working with them, decided I against it. What a bunch of incompetents.
101 Oct-19   From: dhs121968   To: javnma
Thats why the welfare dependant need to be made to do the work or lose their food stamp card.

102 Oct-19   From: Pegifer1   To: martinez5757
Ok lets expel all illegal aliens, you white folks forget you're not the type to get out there and pick all crops these people come here to do, by this I mean black folks too.

What makes you think I'm white?

So you say put the citizens currently on welfare to work, like this is going to happen? Chertoff, doesn't know or has a clue of how it is to live like an illegal alien or any of you folks that talk more than you chew.

Anyone collecting welfare that is able to work, should work. Or be cut off from the freebies. While complaining about living like an illegal alien, remember - life won't get better sitting on your butt!

103 Oct-19   From: englishgirl01200   To: grsb174
Some Citizens do not want the jobs that illegal aliens are willing to do. I am from England but I was unaware that healthcare in the USA was free....I myself have been sick here before and I had to pay upfront before a doctor would see me so how do you figure that they get free health care. I belive that if they are only here to try and better their life and are not here hurting anybody leave them alone.
104 Oct-19   From: Sassylassy   To: Dayhawk Kim
>>How do you think the U.S. should approach illegal immigration?<<

First, we need to enforce our laws, which means CONGRESS, who has a legal obligation and duty to protect and defend our borders needs to get off their arses and DO SOMETHING!!!!!

Second, if there were stiff fines for any companies or individuals caught employing or housing illegals, to include not providing any government or public services, especially free medical or education, it would start making a huge dent for those already here or considering entering our borders illegally!

Lastly, American citizens need to get off their duff and stop whining about it and become proactive! That means getting the word out to your representatives, school board, governors, mayors, etc., and saying ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, and that anyone who is not going to take their oath of office seriously will not be elected, period! The oath of office extends to constitutional promises, and if they cannot support either federal and state constitutions or laws, then they are not fit to serve!

105 Oct-19   From: brownie007o   To: Dayhawk Kim
I personally think Congress should put in some over time addressing this problem It is something that worries the whole country and would make all Americans feel much better. We must address this problem. Not addressing it will be a disaster waiting to happen. Our Congress will be held liable if its not done. World Trade center attack will be nothing if nothing is done. This are my thoughts on the matter.
106 Oct-19   From: jamesc748   To: jcasimir1
catch up with congress. per pending guest worker legislation, in somewhat similar democratic and republican versions, current illegal workers will be permitted to stay upon proof of residence, verification of employment, and payment of a not insubstantial fee. further, the bills provide that any further illegals will be apprehended and expelled.

If those bills are passed and the aliens comply with it then they will not be "illegal" will they. If the American people are happy with it the politicians will remain in office, if not, then they will be fired by the electorate. All of that is fine with me.

i do reasonably expect that laws against burglary will be enforced, although i'm fairly well insured, and the cops rarely recover burgled goods. current immigration laws are not being enforced, perhaps cannot be enforced, so they change.

If you expect burglary laws to be enforced, why not immigration laws? Just because some people get away with breaking a law doesn't mean we should abolish the law. And all sorts of laws having nothing to do with immigration change all the time. I don't see the relevance of this paragraph.

whether we like it or not, it is the 11 million illegals -- a large number to catch and deport -- whom the economy has come to depend on. without them, the crops rot in the fields, the chicken doesn't become mcnuggets, hotels can't make beds, shirts are not sewn, restaurants can't cook shrimp with lobster sauce, and so on.

Again, I never said we shouldn't have some sort of guest worker program. You are misstating the argument and arguing with your misstatement.

also catch up with demographics. economic growth depends on population growth. a replacement birth rate, 2.3 children per household, is not growth. (see BLS and SSA for detailed data.) europe and japan have recognized this too late, and indeed their human services are hard pressed to keep up with a growing population of the old, and a shrinking population of the productive.

Actually, yes it is. 2.2 children per family is the minimum to sustain population. 2.3 and above are population growth. Read the last Cencus.

as to skills, ask intel, microsoft, IBM, any enterprise depending on technology, how difficult it is for them to recruit qualified people. H1-B visas have been severely restricted, to the point that perfectly legal foreign talent is being kept out. (see INS for specifics.) fewer american-born people are getting advanced degrees in the sciences and engineering. in fact, the majority of those credentials are now going to the foreign-born, some of whom stay, many of whom return home to their own high-tech industries.

I don't dissagree but I don't see your point either.

"predominantly low-skilled, uneducated...most of whom cannot even speak english." well, except for the irish, that describes the people who came here for low-wage work, built the country by hand, and in spite of resistance from not only the anglo-saxon establishment but the people who arrived a few boats before, brought forth generations of highly skilled, highly educated entrepreneurs and professionals. so there's not only hope but precedent.

Again, I agree, but I don't see your point. Name one illegal immigrant that has started a corparation.

besides, the irish became cops and firemen. only a minority turned into corrupt democratic machine politicians. and not all of them drink to excess.

What does that have to do with anything. I never said all Irish dring to excess.

oh. rest assured that any jihadis intent on doing us harm will most likely enter legally with their papers in order, as the perpetrators of 9/11 did. there are much more efficient ways to stop terrorists than by sealing the borders. also, suitcase nukes would not be carry-on or checked baggage.
yeah, well, my ancestors' government sold out to the british for some nutmeg plantations, but they did OK, even after their human resources import business was shut down.

The chances of mulims coming in to attack us will be much slimmer, but not completely impossible, if we do something about illegal immigration.

107 Oct-19   From: Sassylassy   To: oldster51620
>>A little context please -- these people didn't start coming when Bush was inaugurated.<<

Exactly what do you think the word "AMNESTY" did for our borders when he was slinging it around during his first presidential campaign? The same way illegals poured into this country when Reagan used it! The word Amnesty used in any election for the sole purpose of procuring votes should be considered a crime IMO! 

108 Oct-19   From: kdsmith952   To: ALL
Illegal is unquestionably the operative word here, but maybe it sounds too pat, we should simply say that illegals are here criminally. If I was to commit another type if crime, say robbing a bank, I am not rewarded for doing so. The Bank isn't going to say, "You must have really needed that money, so here have some more." Doing anything but expelling all illegals is rewarding them for committing a crime.
109 Oct-19   From: clambert101   To: Dayhawk Kim
send them back where they came from get them out . take the americans that are on welfare and offer them the jobs that the mexicans are doing if they refuse cut off there welfare
110 Oct-19   From: vflsun   To: Dayhawk Kim
If you go back to the beginning the only true Americans are Indians.
111 Oct-19   From: idafernl   To: Dayhawk Kim
As a citizen who lives within 40 miles of the border with mexico I am completely convinced that the people of this country don't have a clue as to what is happening at our border's. I frequently speak with members of the border patrol and have been told by every single one that if it were not for the politicians they could do their job effectively. They stop the people, they arrest the people, they feed the people, they then bus them back to the border and let them go knowing well that they will catch some of them the next day coming across. It is a joke and a pure waste of tax payers money. The reason they don't want to stop the border crosser's is easy. Pure economics. If you take away the cheap labor the companies who hire them will be forced to hire workers at a higher cost. This in turn will cause the economy to slow down. The people I know who are here illegally all say the same thing also. Your government knows we are here. They say their employers know they are illegal and that they filled out forms provided by the government saying they were there and paying taxes. None of this makes any sense to me except for one reason. Economics, pure and simple.

For example. I know a person who has been in the United States illegally for over fifteen years. This person owns three homes and a business here and employs eleven people. This person pays taxes like we all do but cannot come forward for fear of deportation. What would the government gain by sending a hard working person like this back. Nothing, absolutely nothing. My point is simple. It is a whole lot cheaper for the politicians to tell the citizens they are doing everything they can to control the tide coming across than to really try to shut down the border. In the mean time there are people coming across who have only one motive for being here and that is not to work. It is to harm us in some way.

The politicians need to realize that money and greed are not reason enough to allow this continual flow across our borders.

112 Oct-19   From: marcelhjr   To: Dayhawk Kim
I say, let the minutemen take care of these Mexicans at the border, they have guns. And I"m sure they know how to use them.
113 Oct-19   From: worker136   To: ritexcorp
Bringing up the over used argument that we are a nation of immigrants obscures the fact that these illegal aliens are a severe drain on our country.

Those of us whose ancestors were immigrants are largely descended from those who either came legally, through the front door, or before there were laws on immigration. So these were not people who broke laws of two countries to get here. These were also people who came prepared to work hard for anything they wanted. When my people came to the USA it would never have occurred to them to claim they had a right to healthcare, welfare or that this country should change its language to suit their convenience. They came prepared to work and to try to fit in. And they came with the consent of the country.

For years the US had a fairly liberal open door policy. By what logic do you say that a country that has opened its doors cannot close them again? Part of our legal immigration policy has been that we accepted people with a useable skill. These illegal immigrants usually have no such skills. Those who have skills tend to stay and work where they are. Haven't we seen what a burden these underskilled, under employed people are on Mexico? Haven't we seen the trouble they have with their economy? Why should we want to take this burden on ourselves? If Mexico needs help, perhaps it should begin by improving their educational system. I wonder how many votech schools are in operation in Mexico. Does it offer any encouragement to students to stay in school? Exactly why should we make Mexico's problems our problem?

114 Oct-19   From: worker136   To: vflsun
Really, there were people here before the Indians. Very different physical types of whom few physical remains have been found. Possibly killed off by the migrating Indians or from natural causes before the Indians.
115 Oct-19   From: Chas47707   To: ritexcorp
You fail to mention that most of our ancestors came to this country by legal means and at a time when this country needed immigrants. There is a conspiracy between liberal Democrats and Republicans to keep the flow of illegals coming and as Americans we need to fight both political parties to restore integrity to our borders. I say expel all illegal immigrants and force the Mexican government to deal with it's own problems as we deal with our own. We will continue to accept legal immigrants from all countries at a controlled rate. No special deals for anyone.

As for the response to hurricane Katrina, much of the blame must be laid at the feet of the totally corrupt and incompetent governments of New Orleans and Louisiana. Has anyone noticed how much more efficient all agencies operating outside the New Orleans area have been? It's no coincidence. Yes, Brown is an idiot but the fact that you do not parcel blame to Nagin or Blanco negates anything you have to say on the Katrina issue. You're just another Liberal idiot.

116 Oct-19   From: yosemite85   To: idafernl
I don't live anywhere near the border and have very few immigrants in my area. However, when I was in San Diego someone told me a similar story that you tell. It would seem the border guards will often catch the same people several times and return them. More interesting, they also told me and I don't know if it is true, that we pay Mexico so much money to take back each and every immigrant we return. If this is true, why would Mexico even try to stop the influx.
117 Oct-19   From: taliaNkheldar   To: dhs121968
some states have a program that rewards those on welfare if they have a job. and that includes helping with child care.

but it seems that those kids in daycare are in a way worse off. since it promotes being separate from their parents. it is harder it seems for the kids to relate to the parents and the same way parent to kids. since they are not with each other for most of the day. maybe just a couple of hours per day do they see each other.

and some states if not all are putting limits on how long one can be on welfare. 5 years is the max for it. one can stop it at any time and keep the remainder of it for later times when they again are having troubles.

 

 

a reply to:

 

 

SURE, SEND THEM BACK AND THEN START PUTTING THESE AMERICANS TO WORK WHO ARE ON THE WELFARE,IF THEY CHOOSE NOT TO DO THE JOB,CUT THEM OFF!!!!!!


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119 Oct-19   From: taliaNkheldar   To: thinkso13
are you also referring to the classes that teach a foreign language in schools too??

 

 

a reply to:

 

 

All bilingual programs should be scrapped immediately

120 Oct-19   From: fjoisil   To: grsb174
U.S. has make a mess ,now it is out of control.It is getting so English is a second language now. Our system is broke.

We are so far behind in the ways we are running this country.
121 Oct-19   From: dhs121968   To: taliaNkheldar
my state has a program for child care its called the 4c program and you know what
people us and abuse it too.kids need to be around other kids,they learn more that way.
and 5 yrs is to long to be on welfare
122 Oct-19   From: mjw0123   To: ALL
They should all have to go. They get way too many rights that even real citizens are denied. I actually have a ex brother in law, who is illegal, who works for cash, and who just got full custody of my neice because of a bunch of other lying illegals. They were all in the court room, all admited they were illegal in front of some police and a JUDGE, and in the end they got a 3 year old and told that if they got caught and deported then the first thing to do would be call my sister so she could come get the baby, what a crock.
123 Oct-19   From: rrtatlow   To: ritexcorp
>>Anything that anyone in the Bush regime, the Bush mafia proposes, chertoff this means you, must be taken with a fistful of salt, because they are only interested in ripping off the american public.<<

You are one sick pup!
124 Oct-19   From: sharksrevenge11   To: Dayhawk Kim
The stuff that I love is.I work at a hospital in Calif.

I love to see the Illegals come into our Emergency room.For FREE services.Hurt from some sport they are playing.

What is sad is how they cant afford to pay the bill.But find some way to buy there $150.00 Soccer uniform.Pads, Cleats,Shin guards.

They Rape our system.Why cant they at least learn the language.And stop destroying any complex they live.Have some respect.

Live like Dogs get treated like Dogs!

125 Oct-19   From: rparris24   To: rrtatlow
Talk about some ignorant people, you and others like you take the cake. If you hate this country so much, why the heck dont you move to another country. I have never read such stupid crap that you and others like you dish out. Take a look around. Open your eyes, and get off your hard-headed butts. We dont need illegals, we dont want illegals. They are ILLEGAL (for those too stupid to understand what that means, it means they are not here legally). Or do you go around breaking the laws of the United States and get away with it. Heck no, if you or I break the law, we get arrested. They dont. Deport them all and fill the jobs with welfare recipients. Im getting tired of the people who are here legally and work in the system, getting taken advantage of by having to support financially every little cry baby who sucks our money away.
126 Oct-19   From: dhs121968   To: sharksrevenge11
So working in a Cali hospital then you should know the women come there have their
babies,it becomes American citizen and then they get all the gov.aid they need,right?
How often do you see this?
127 Oct-19   From: UserPop2525   To: angrrrd1
>...without immediate revolution, America is dead.<

Without immediate revolultion........nothing will happen. Get a grip.
128 Oct-19   From: scottzephyr   To: dhs121968
wrong !! God says HOLD OUT YOUR HAND TO THE POOR'

and we need t hem to help pay into SS so we can draw better checks :)

129 Oct-19   From: cjanettescovill   To: dhs121968
I feel the same as you - send them back and get people on welfare to fill their jobs, no ifs, ands or buts!!!!!!!
130 Oct-19   From: UserPop2525   To: martinez5757
You made you point about what kink of jobs "illegals" take, but you missed the bigger point of this thread. You say that "illegals" are okay because they pick fruit and no one else wants to pick fruit. That is no different to me than saying "John robbed a bank to get money for his sick kid, so that is okay". Why is one okay and not the other? Both are violations of laws. We are a nation of laws. They should be enforced or eliminated, not ignored. Entering this country without permission, like every other country on earth (including Mexico), is against the law. As a society we have decided that we don't want open borders. If you want to change that, change the law, but don't get upset because people who break the law get caught.


131 Oct-19   From: oafishcad   To: jcasimir1
<<just to be picky-picky, they're not criminals until arrested, prosecuted, and convicted, then to be incarcerated or deported. now they're mostly just sent back across the border to enter again.>>

Actually anyone who engages in criminal activity (such as criminal tresspass) ia a criminal, whether or not they're convicted. The activity itself is what makes one a criminal-not the conviction.

As for amnesty-we already HAD amnesty-under Reagan, remember? A "ONE TIME ONLY" amnesty. Well, so much for honesty in politicians. After THAT amnesty we were supposed to have much better border security. Didn't happen then, won't happen now. Amnesty is just a BS way to excuse illegal behavior.

As for the economy is dependent on them-Bulloney. Yes prices would go up if all the illegals were deported (which will never happen), But no, we are not dependant. That's just another argument from the apologists who want illegals here, for whatever reason. Many industries where there used to be decent paying jobs with good benefits are now low paying jobs with no benefits. It isn't the economy that's dependent, it's people who want the US economy to be done on the cheap who are dependent.

132 Oct-19   From: cjanettescovill   To: ritexcorp
Operative word here is "ILLEGAL" not ALL immigrants. Let the illegal immigrants wait in line like all decent people would. and
the slow response of our govt to Katrina was that looney govenor of Louisianna and that wacko Mayor of New Orleans. (explain all the empty buses just sitting there while New Orleans drowned - he had 5 days advance notice of Katrina)
Isn't it funny how the police commendeered those brand new cadillacs - or were they just doing their jobs!!!
133 Oct-19   From: panicked1   To: karen1dec
I totally agree, also, I never quite understood how "illegals" have any right to any benefits here in the states. You should have to be a citizen of the US to get any benefits. I live in a town that has been literally overtaken by imigrants from India, Pakistan and such countries, they do not want to live as American's they just want to work the system for all they can get. Most of them do not even try to learn english and could care less, yet when I had to go to social security office to get a replacement card I was the only american in the damn place other than the workers .
134 Oct-19   From: karen1dec   To: nadicicer
First of all you seem to assume that when the term Illegal Alien is used it is only in reference to Mexican illegals. Not so. Potential terrorists can slip across the southern border more easily than one of Mexican descent. The ones from the Middle East have the money to pay smugglers and the paper forgers whereas most of the Mexicans don't have that kind of money In Texas we see the greatest concentration of Mexican illegals that get this far and stay. But they are coming from Columbia, El Salvador and Argentina. Some of these people are coming here merely to sell drugs. They are coming from Nigeria, Yemen, Iraq, Iran. They cross our borders 24/7 - 365 days. a year. Just because you read that a truck load was stopped doesn't mean that's the only time anyone tried or didn't succeed. There are thousands a day coming in and we have no idea where they are or what they are doing. Add to these the ones coming here from other countries on school visa's, visiting visa's and then just disappear. Does the World Trade Center ring a bell? You have to stop ALL of the illegals from coming in and find the ones all ready here and then work on a good legal immigration process.

Yes this country was built on immigrants but I believe even they had to enter the country under some type of legal process. I have absolutely no objection to having naturalized American citizens that agree to obey all the laws I do and that come into this country using the system. They are usually the most staunch supporters of our Nation because they had to give something back to be here. We can avoid a lot of the potential terrorists, the criminal element and the ones that would rob us of our country. Jealous? Of what. I think it's the other way around. There are more trying to get in here than out. I'm not sure you understand the gravity of the problem-they aren't just Mexican illegals.

I have little respect for our welfare program and think it should not be a lifetime benefit. The able bodied should only be allowed so many weeks and then they better have a job. You say 3/4 can't get Welfare. Well apparently there is a 1/4 that is. They can't be refused medical treatment so if they don't have the money to pay they still get treated and the tax payer pays. We pay for their education because the law says, they need to be schooled. We pay their insurance rates because they can't get insurance because they are illegal. Castro cleans out his prisons and send them here and we pay to put them in our prisons and take care of them. I for one am tired of paying. Enough is enough
135 Oct-19   From: orphanannielou   To: Dayhawk Kim
All illegal Mexicans should most definitely be sent back to Mexico - IMMEDIATLY! As it stands now, almost HALF of the Texas are illiterate unemployed Mexicans holding all of us Americans back, including holding back our children in school.

I also think that all of the displaced Louisiana refugees should be sent back. The Louisiana kids that have been segregated into my daughter's junior high and causing gang problems, and bringing more crime into our area.

What should we do with them? Ask George Bush who is sending billions of American dollars worth of aid to other countries but doesn't give a rat's ass about his own country. Louisiana could be rebuilt (including dams, etc.) in no time at all with that kind of money, and then everyone can go back home to start their lives over.

 

 

136   From: ALL   To: ALL
137 Oct-19   From: Cora   To: Pegifer1
>>>>>>>We are a country of immigrants who came to this country to be a part of this country. They learned our language and became citizens. Not so with Mexico.<<<<<<<

Very good point! They also send most of their money back to Mexico. How does this help our economy?

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141 Oct-19   From: pseudolous49   To: jcasimir1
Casimir has hit it right on the head. Those of you who have not read his comment ,do so before moving on. # 35.

For every illegal alien in the States there is some AMERICAN willing to give them a job or a home to live in ' Off the books". You can't blame a poor person who WANTS to work from going somewhere that will pay him more money than he gets in his own country. That's called survival.

You can place the blame on US employers and slum lords who give them jobs and housing to evade tax, health, and employment laws to maximize their profits an thereby keep from having to pay Americans a decent wage and benefits.
No illegal jobs , no illegal housing, no illegal immigrants, its that simple.

And while your looking to place the blame MR. and Mrs, America look at yourself. You are BUYING the products that these people make or harvest . Why, because they are cheaper. When a head of lettuce costs you $2.75 rather than $1.39 at the market you will be the first to complain.

SO long as there exists opportunities in the US for undeclared labor, you are going to have immigrants. So long as America is willing to exploit these people they will make themselves available . They haven't much choice.

This country has as history of exploiting labor that dates back to slavery and was only changed by the Union movements of the early 20th century. Irish and Chinese immigrants built the first transcontinental railroad. Yet there were signs all over this country "No Irish Allowed" in boardinghouses and stores. We thanked the Chinese laborers by deporting them back to China once the railroad was completed.

Congress tried to keep out people from Southern Europe , Italy , Greece , and the Balkan States by strict immigration quotas in the 20's and 30's claiming these people were undesireable aliens and anarchists. Yet fully 20% of the men who served in World War II in the American armed forces were of Italian descent.

We still exploit labor sending our manufacturing to China, Malaysia, India, and other third world countries where people are paid subsistence wages and work in shops where you would not board your dog. That 's why you can buy a Blouse for $15.00 or $20.00 dollars and not $40.00 to $75.00.

As for learning to speak English etc., you people have a romanticized view of your ancestors. Many of them refused to send their kids to "American " schools w hen education was not mandatory .Some lived in their own communities or ghettos where only Yiddish , German, Italian, or other languages were spoken. Many churches had services only in the native tongues of the people in the area . This was true of rural areas as well as urban. There are many communities of German , Dutch, or other nationalities where English was a second language. This is nothing new.

Many voted without being able to even read the ballot. Ward healers and politicos would haul them in by the hundreds by promises and bribes and teach them how to mark the ballots. They were the fuel that ran machine politics. Read some HISTORY

142 Oct-19   From: a10softball   To: karen1dec
Just because this is America we all must speak English? Last time I checked we here in America have no official language.
143 Oct-19   From: Cora   To: thinkso13
>>>>>>The penalty for the third illegal entry should be death with no possibility of appeal.<<<<<<<<

In the Carolina's we are having trouble with the Illegal immigrants driving while they are intoxicated. My niece and her two year old son were killed by an illegal immigrant, driving while he was drunk. He got three years and deportation after his release.

Guess what? He is out of jail, did 18 months, and he is still living here. My brother has put out a reward for anyone that can help catch him so he can be deported. I doubt very seriously that he will ever be caught. He has probably already bought a new ID.

I don't mind saying that I don't like having them here.

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145 Oct-19   From: karen1dec   To: a10softball
Well just call me silly. I thought that since we were American's and our national language appears to be English that anyone living in this country should be able to speak and understand English. I would also think that should I live in another country like Italy, I would be foolish to expect them to speak English and not Italian. Being able to fluently speak 2 or more languages is a big gold star in my book. So I do think if you are going to live in a country that is primarily English speaking then you should be able to speak it.
146 Oct-19   From: sonlygonly   To: Dayhawk Kim
Yes indeed, Let me add just a little . They won't learn english, they bring the gang mentality with them, and most annoying of all they have the nerve todisplay the mexican flag on their cans or truck like this is something great. If mexico is so great why in the "H__LL are

they in the U.S.A. Go back to what you are so proud of.

 

147 Oct-19   From: bmillsdi   To: Dayhawk Kim
Also, we should rescind citizenship rights of any child birthed here by an illegal!!!
148 Oct-19   From: BlueBlood   To: grsb174
grsb174: Are you not paying attention. Bush is the one who will not do anything about the illegal immigrants. You must be so far out to the right you can't hear or read.

BlueBlood: Even a pub like me can see that. Maybe someone slapped him along the side of the head and he's beginning to wake up. It bothers me Congress says we can't get to this legislation this year.

149 Oct-19   From: pleasurzzze   To: Dayhawk Kim
read your article with interest. I used to live in Miami.. and understand how the CUBANS are rated as special. AS the cuban migration was in the 1980s and Castro has done little to change his ways, im wondering what day Congress will get to gether and put limitations on how special Cubans are.

They are the only country that doesnt have to go thru the same immigration processing and wait as persons from other countries. In realities, the cubans at this time in 2005 may be in less or no danger compared to many other countries where persons seek visas, and exile. Cheschenians being one that have extreme and dangerous living conditions.

I think the USA and our Congress may benefit be redefining our immigration policies to something like this:

TO remain a free society, we have to think of the people as a whole, and what is the best remedy of this big picture. !

Visas to travel and visit as a tourist. Set the dates and expiration date

visas to study, and then return to home country after graduation. Expected graduation date is the date of expiration per the student.

visas to work temporarily in the US on specific projects .Set expiration dates.

Citizenship evaluation based on something MORE THAN JUST DROPPING A BABY from your body while over in the USA. I think the born in the USA is a misnomer especially for all the mexican women in labor crossing the border.That should be an exception to the rule. There has to be more value to becoming a US citizen than your placenta!

citizenship based on contribution to betterment of our society, education, tax based. Applications reviewed in a timely manner and processed within a year of application.

make it formidable that you come to contribute to america not to just take up space. You have to pay taxes,, train, educate yourself and family. build a business that is legal . contribute to the betterment of economy.

you dont get a free ride cause your daddy made it here first.Why does the whole family get to be citizens if dad came and worked a year? Why are you leaving your own citizenship? Can we afford to relocate entire countries into ours and still maintain a quality existence?

Make people who are forgeiners pay for their own language classes and other necessities to adapt to oursociety. Schools and states are taxed with paying for all these low income people who cannot afford to pay for themselves.

how can they contribute to society if they cannot speak and understand our culture and language?

EXAMPLE: in south fl, most of the cuban kids and haitains cannot speak , read or write in english. primary school is slowed down and deprived of proper coursework while teachers struggle with children who do not understand the language.

WHy are our tax dollars paying to assimulate them?LET THEM ASSIMULATE.. but they have to pay taxes or something to participate.

ALSO social security... why are cubans able to collect social security they are not us citizens. Why are forgeiners applying for social security numbers?

There should be an immigration number assigned to passports or visas used.

NOT SOCIAL SECURITY FOR FORGEINERS.ITS FOR AMERICAN CITIZENS RETIREMENT AND DISABILITY.

If its an identifying factor. that forgeiner should be tracable by their assigned immigration number not by our social security system.

Drivers licenses by state should be directed to be issued to recognize temporary forgeiner status. Not a full state identification.

That would help police during routine traffic stops to find persons who visas may have expired.

Procedural things need to be changed in light of threats of terrorism . the undocumented need to be found and documented and put on a longer wait list for failing to meet the REQUIRED AMENESTY given in the USA.

there is nothing wrong with sending those back who did not comply. Do we get off on traffic tickets when we speed or run the red light?

No we are ticketed even if we didnt mean it..

There should be strict requirements and standards for health related issues.

people traveling from infectious areas should be tested or quarantined for awhile and if necessary denied access until the incubation period clears.

That is in old laws anyhow, just not applied. Center for Disease control 1960s.

I suppose there can be an appeal to every rule. I think we need more people and a faster way to process . I WOULD SAY FLAT ACROSS THE BOARD.. those forgeiners who are living here and DID NOT FOLLOW THE AMENESTY PROCEDURES should be sent back. and thats that.. they had their chances!

 

150 Oct-19   From: BlueBlood   To: thewizard69420
the wiz: As I understand things, most some illegals come here with the intention to escape a hostile government and way of life and they come here to become Americans and make a dream a reality for their families.

BlueBlood: You understand wrong. Most come here for more money. Most do not bring their familys but send the money back to their own country.

the wiz: This I can accept, and believe we should accommodate people like that. That continues to build America. We should speed up their transition into becoming productive members of our society.

BlueBlood: We do accomadate people like that. We have a process for people to come to this country. Those that enter illegally circumvent the process. When a illegal comes in an takes a job; that is a job that an American doesn't get. It also let's a crooked employer hire a worker at a lower wage and pay under the table which in turns gives him a unfair competitive edge. It also lets him not pay a fair wage and in many instances he pays no benifits.

151 Oct-19   From: dhs121968   To: scottzephyr
I DO EVERYDAY THAT I GET UP OUT OF BED AND GO TO
WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
152 Oct-19   From: modboy32   To: Dayhawk Kim
i believe that if your not a u.s. citizen born citizen then you need to leave especially at this time when we cant turn the corner without having to think if the immagrant were looking at is the next terrorist to harm our country
153 Oct-19   From: BlueBlood   To: oafishcad
oafishcad: Everyone welcomes legal immigration, ILLEGALS are not the same, they come here as criminals-and have my complete empathy, but sorry, the USA has the right to make laws and has the right to secure borders.

BlueBlood: I rarely agree with oaf but I do on this issue. I keep getting calls for donations for the Republican party and I tell them "not this year or again until something is done about illegal immigration"

154 Oct-19   From: kevinl826   To: ritexcorp
I agree 100%. The Bush administration NEEDS to be expelled!! Everything they do and have done is illegal.
155 Oct-19   From: watash2   To: BlueBlood
It isn't really the illegals who are tearing down our country and our way of life that so many have fought for. It is the d___ politicians that are the real enemies to all of us. They are the ones that are letting all of this bull____ go on and on. I say that we should expel all the illegals and pack in all of the blind politicians along with them. Let them go and mess up some other government if they were to live so long in another country with their sneaking ways and lying mouths.
156 Oct-19   From: BlueBlood   To: soundnfury
soundnfury: Personally, I dug ditches, removed asbestos, and gardened my high school to pay for my tuition (private school). After that, I had a paper route to get a little extra money (which I occasionally gave to my single-parent mother to help her make ends meet). In college, I flipped burgers at the school cafeteria to pay rent (it was a great job, actually...I got paid dollars above minimum wage, earned meal tickets for any food on campus, and got to work with my college peers). Of course, now I'm a bum and rely on wifefare for life.

BlueBlood: ROTFLMAO

157 Oct-19   From: Chas47707   To: pseudolous49
"This country has a history of exploiting labor". That about tells me what type of person with whom we are dealing. Really, as if you can name a single country or even a single civilization in ancient times that did not exploit labor, as you say. Are you really just a stupid clod or are you just pulling our chain?

Now if you can say something like: the United States, as all known countries, has a history of exploiting labor. And if you can add that one of the reasons we have so many immigrants is that we exploit labor a lot less than do the countries from which people are emigrating we can say that perhaps you have a shred of honesty. And if you care to mention that many Chinese workers were not deported and that the reason they were here was because of poor conditions in their own country. The same might be said for the Irish who were being brutally mistreated and subjected to genocide in their own country by British conquerors. To think the United States is in any special class regarding exploitation of labor requires a great deal of ignorance. Just drive down to Tijuana or Ciudad Juarez and see how the working class lives.

158 Oct-19   From: BlueBlood   To: watash2
watash2: It isn't really the illegals who are tearing down our country and our way of life that so many have fought for. It is the d___ politicians that are the real enemies to all of us. They are the ones that are letting all of this bull____ go on and on. I say that we should expel all the illegals and pack in all of the blind politicians along with them. Let them go and mess up some other government if they were to live so long in another country with their sneaking ways and lying mouths.

BlueBlood: I'll go along with that. Now all we need to do is find the Red countries and the Blue countries.

159 Oct-19   From: campy700   To: Dayhawk Kim
The term "illegal" says it all, yes, criminals should be put out immediately. Mexico is a big country, they should put forth effort there to change "their" country to where they would want to stay. Not change "our" laws. It took a revolution on our ancestors part to change this country, well, if they don't have the grit and backbone to change theirs....I don't feel sorry for them. Sorry! There are some things they have to do for themsevles. The borders should be closed to all seeking a permanent place to live until this country has time to heal and take care of its own, about 5 or 10 years sounds good. Wherever there are a lot of south of the border immigrants, there is a surge in crime. That is the country Bush should be trying to re-organize, not someone on the other side of the world. The illegals from Cuba and Mexico are far more destructive to the Americans. And no baby born of illegals should be given American status.....absolutely not!! And the taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for the little border hoppers. My ancestors and my husbands ancestors came througth the front door to this country the way it is supposed to be, and they got jobs and worked and PAID TAXES like an American, not a continueous drain on society. The crime rate didn't go up in their communities when they moved here..........

J. Campanella

160 Oct-19   From: airubil   To: ALL
NICE THOUGHT. A BIT LATE, THOUGH. IF & WHEN IT HAPPENS, BEWARE OF A FEW UPSET INDIVIDUALS.
161 Oct-19   From: sparklekat6   To: campy700
Yes thats a really great idea. Mexicans should change their own country. The problem is Mexico is more corrupt than the Bush administration (I know its hard to believe). The only way Mexico could change is through civil war. And if the 50 states in this country agree to bare the burden of the refugees from that war, I'm all for it. But some how I think us border states are gonna get stuck with several million Mexicans in Red Cross shelters. Thanks, but no thanks!!
162 Oct-19   From: BlueBlood   To: Dayhawk Kim
Dayhawk Kim: How do you think the U.S. should approach illegal immigration?

BlueBlood: Deport them all. Confiscate all properties of employers who hire illegals. Make a qouta system for migrant workers and permanent workers. Build a huge wall along the borders with electrification. Build a zone between Mexico and the wall and anouther behind it with barbed wire fencing and plant land mines between the two areas and on a random basis fire a few machine guns into the zone. If they still make it through sign them up into the army and send them off to war in Iraq, Afganistan or wherever needed. If they survive give them citizenship.

163 Oct-19   From: jssjms2   To: Dayhawk Kim
Illegal latin ladies are HOT sweet vary hard working gals. What would our packing plants do without them. heck lets just annex mexico .They are all hear already anyway.national security what a big joke.If your expecting the bungling us goverment to take care of you your going to be in deep ****.you better stock up on servival stuff .lets just keep on leaving the hard working jesus loving latin people alone.And concentrate on securing our nucular reactors and such.Lets concentrate on islamic extreamists/terrorists and leave good people alone.Lets just give whatever is left to halaburton&bush the biggest embezzelars in history.Sorry the USA has been outsourced.O ya and bs the republicans want the cheep labor for thir new corporate/facist halausaburton. osamageorge I wonder what book he will read the next time were being attacked .In lue of launching f 16s or some sort of appropeite defences.So they will just keep waging the dog and you all keep listening.riged eletronic voting machines=no free elections.soon more big disasters and marshall law.the osamabushalusaburton plan.
164 Oct-19   From: jssjms2   To: Pegifer1
They are the biggest ripoffs ever bar non.
165 Oct-19   From: jssjms2   To: ritexcorp
finally a sane informed person .THANKYOU
166 Oct-19   From: morganhors   To: Dayhawk Kim
I agree that they should all be sent back.

I am single and have no children. I was born and raised in the US. I have been paying taxes to support federal assistance programs for 23 years. I am a full time student in college and, because of my class schedule, can only work part time one or two days a week. I applied for several grants and scholarships but was denied. When I tried applying for federal assistance, I was denied it because I have no children. I started at Texas Work Force and was told that they could not help me because I was over the maximum income requirement. I went to apply for food stamps and was told that they could not help me I was not able to work enough hours to qualify for assistance. She then told me that if I were and illegal immigrant they would have been able to help me by placing me on their program. I find it very offensive that I can not get assistance because I was born here and have paid taxes to support these programs but some one who should not be here at all can get all the help they want.

 

167 Oct-19   From: slspeights   To: morganhors
I THINK THEY SHOULD BE SENT BACK IF THEY ARE ILLEGAL.CAN'T WE AS A COUNTRY GET TOGETHER AND PETITION OUR GOVERNMENT.
168 Oct-19   From: morganhors   To: dhs121968
There is a verse in the Bible that says that if they do not work, neither shall they eat. I am glad that some one else agrees with me on the subject of putting some of those lazy a%$ to work and quit giving them every thing.
169 Oct-19   From: colbiedotcom   To: karen1dec
They way I look at it, they are taking ALLLLLL OF OUR JOBS...I even have a cousin who I FIND SICKLING that will hire a illegal immigrant before a american man only because he wants to have more $$$$$ for his pocket...And the funny part is in kentucky where they get caught for drugs or anything the cops turn their backs on the illegal immigrants just to KEEP GETTING THE FEDERAL FUNDING.....ITS A MESS the way I see it..IF US TRUE AMERICANS WOULD ALL write our government or report illegal hiring then maybe it'll fade...BUT WE ALL NEED TO DO OUR PART if you want to hold to a high paying job...
170 Oct-19   From: lennytht   To: Dayhawk Kim
THANK GOD SOMEONE IN GOVERNMENT HAS SEEN THE LIGHT AND REALIZE AMERICA CAN"T TAKE ANY MORE PEOPLE. WE ARE FULL, OR SOCIAL SYSTEM WILL FAIL FOR EVERYONE IN THIS COUNTRY IF WE DON"T STOP LETTING EVERYONE IN. IT"S ABOUT TIME WE START THINKING ABOUT AMERICA>IF WE DON"T NO ONE ELSE WILL.. LET"S ELECT THIS MAN PRESIDENT HE MAKES MORE SENSE THEN BUSH AND RICE. BUSH AND RICE IS A JOKE TO THE WORLD AND THIS COUNTRY<THAT IS ANOTHER STORY FOR THE RECORD BOOK ON THE DECLINE OF AMERICA. 
171 Oct-19   From: manwithnoname324   To: Dayhawk Kim
What do these illegals give us? what do they contribute to the country?...German Scientists during world war two gave us considerable brain power...they helped us develop and implement the atomic bomb....what we get from illegals is cheap labor, a form of TB tha cant be cured....and a whole lot less room...the US has finite space!..its not an infinite range of land...or the biggest welfare building in the world, or the biggest toilet....its time to stop the in rush of non producers and send them back home...we have done enough, and we've had enough....time to draw the line. If you can contribute....you stay...otherwise...go back home and do the best you can. One country cant just pick up and move into another country.....learn the language, offer a good service besides ignorence and cheap labor..and we can use you...otherwise...go back we have had enough and we are tired of taking on your tired, poor, hungrey etc....we are like that now ourselves!...it has to stop somewhere...it can stop at the border..
172 Oct-19   From: atheistgal1   To: karen1dec
All I am seeing here is "Mexican, Mexican, Mexican". Does anyone realize that there are hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens that are absolutely NOT from Mexico? So, do they go home as well? The store owners that set up shop, get work permits, pay taxes, etc... even though they are not LEGAL, they still contribute. You still buy your beer or cigarettes or gas or food from their stores. Do they go home as well? So, is everyone so pissed off that there are so many "illegals" here that EVERYONE, without fail, that is not a LEGAL citizen or visitor MUST be sent "home" ? What about the thousands and thousands of people that have been here 15-20 years, that DO contribute, that DO work within the "system" as it were? Do they just LOSE the property they have worked to buy, lose the store they worked so HARD to open, lose the whole LIFE they have achieved here in the U.S. because some bigots want them gone? Why do you think so many people COME here? They lack the ability to scratch out a living at home. The land of the free and home of the brave, eh? So you are all saying we are only free if we get rid of the dirty Mexicans? I hate bigotry. That is all I am seeing here. Stupid, red-neck, bigoted, close-minded simpletons that can't accept that the WHITE race is not the ONLY race worthy of STATUS in the United States. Oh, and yes, I am a WHITE person, born and raised in the U.S. I simply choose not to be as close-minded and utterly racist as most of the respondents here have been.
173 Oct-19   From: dualcg   To: ritexcorp
"Sure, lets expel all of the immigrants, forgeting tht we are a country of immigrants " Yes, we are a country of immigrants and there are two kinds of immigrants -LEGAL and ILLEGAL. Legal means they obeyed the law and went through all the paperwork to get here. Illegal means they broke the law and simply invaded. The way we have been treating the illegals as honored guests is a slap in the face to people like my step daughter who has been waiting five years and gone through tons of paper work to come here legally. She is still waiting. I say round up the illegals and send home with a message to their own government that if they return it will be considered an act of invasion with consequence for that government to follow. Also send to jail anybody who has helped them get here. Then lets honor the LEGAL immigrants who are taking part in making this a great country.
174 Oct-19   From: atheistgal1   To: debbadr
The more I read, the more pissed off I get. Ok, you say we are built on a foundation of immigrants that came here and learned... did you say... "English"??? English is NOT the native language of the United States. There are MANY dialects of ... NATIVE AMERICAN languages. No, the illegal immigrants DID ABSOLUTELY NOT come here and learn the nation's "native" language, so get off THAT particular soapbox now! It makes you look ignorant and stupid and foolish all at the same time... oh, wait... you ARE ignorant and foolish and stupid if you believe that forcing people across an already taxed southern boarder will "help" the economy. Get real!!

Also, someone said something about them coming here and making a fortune and going home is WRONG... HELLO!! What do you think all these companies were doing with workers in Iraq?? They were sending US citizens to do jobs in FOREIGN COUNTRIES (read that THEIR citizens could have damned well used that money themselves), making up to and over an estimated million dollars in one year, then coming home and retiring on that money. Yet, you people see nothing wrong with THAT, do you, because that is OUR side doing that. Because we, the arrogant U.S. did it, so it MUST be ok. Jackasses need to get your heads out of the sand.

175 Oct-19   From: Lachoy2   To: karen1dec
The key word here is "illegal". Yes they should all be returned to their homelands immediately. In another article a statement was made that they should be allowed 5 years to return on their own. NO! We are just giving them 5 more years to hide deeper.

Living in a border state I see how many illegal aliens are coming across the borders and taking jobs not to mention all those loitering around street corners waiting for someone to offer them a job. This state fenced off an area where illegal aliens can wait and try to find work. The state is even paying for security to oversee the area to prevent fights and make sure it satays clean. Put that security on the border. It's a game for them to buy a late model car for cash and not insure it. Half the accidents involve an unlic., uninsured illegal. It infuriates me to see them get back in a car and drive off under these circumstances when they wouldn't even think of letting me do the same thing. And of course forget about showing up in court. It has happened to me and I ended paying for the repair of my car and prayed my rates wouldn't go up any higher because illegals don't have to follow the same rules we do.
It isn't just Mexican illegals coming across the southern borders. We see them from Columbia, El Salvador and there have even been those from the Middle East and other countries come in through Mexico.
Most work for cash and don't pay taxes but they can get medical care and schooling for their children regardless of legal status. Some of them find a way to qualify for food stamps. Making bogus SS cards and papers are big business.

I guess it even offends me that most of the signs on stores and in businesses are in Spanish as well as English. This is America. English is our language and 9 out of 10 Mexicans that can't read or speak a word of English are illegal. Just yesterday I was at the grocery store and after rattling off all the sales in English I got the Spanish version.

Then you do like Castro and empty the jails and sent them to us.

We need to secure the borders and send all illegals home no matter how long they have been here ILLEGALLY - no matter what job they may have had had for 10 years ILLEGALLY. It's the law and our country is breaking it. We are accused of violating rights. ILLEGALS don't have any rights if they are here ILLEGALLY.

I live in Florida and am seeing the same disregard for the law here. It's bad enough we've had to hand Miami over to the Cubans, now the the Mexicans are taking over in my area. I knew we were in trouble when, as you mentioned, I noticed that all the major chains are now displaying everything in Spanish. When I heard our governor (another Bush loser) was pushing for drivers' licenses for illegals, I emailed his office with my objections. I received an email from his rep telling me that it was being done for *MY* own good, so that when I'm hit by an illegal, they would be able to track him down. I replied that if this country and Bush's brother was implementing the existing laws, there would be no problem. I never did get a reply. :) Asses! Walmart, which opened only a few years ago, is now making announcements in Spanish and I'm sick to death of being boxed into aisles with Spanish flying here and there all around me. Your post speaks for all of us who are paying the price for corporate greed and zero % representation. Have you noticed that commercials playing on English language tv stations are now being "sprinkled" with Spanish? Sneaky isn't even close to the word I have for it. Am I the only one who find this offensive? Where is the outrage? I completely agree that these people are not to be tolerated in any manner and any work program is just another name for amnesty. Call me a racist and I'm happy as a lark, because I know I'm striking fear into a few illegal hearts. The next time you see a store with Spanish subtitles, file a formal complaint in the form of a letter and encourage others to do the same. Push against the tide. While you're at it, why not get in touch with immigration in your state and ask the dope at the other end of the line about those illegals being fenced. Find out who you should be issuing a complaint to with regards to them being picked up and deported. If we all make a huge stink, they can't hide.
176 Oct-19   From: oafishcad   To: vflsun
<<If you go back to the beginning the only true Americans are Indians. >>

Since there were hundreds of different tribes, many times warring with one another, there was no "America". The "Indians" had no immigration laws, so no immigrants were "illegal". For a long period of time the USA had no immigration laws, and during that time no one coming here was illegal. We now have laws that forbid immigration without going through proper channels, if you do not, you are a criminal.

177 Oct-19   From: creek1954   To: Dayhawk Kim
The idea isn't all that bad from my perspective. WHY should AMERICA be expected to basically have open borders that can be crossed at will by FRIEND or FOE ???. Send every last illegal person back to where they came from. Then when you apply you must bring something of worth to AMERICA , such as a clean bill of health. {verified by doctor here], you should not be a criminal on the run, [verified by international police records/ data base, and /or any other means possible], you should not be able to get free health care when "millions" of elderly, poor and middle-class bonafide Americans go without!!! You should be treated fairly by all if you truly come to America out of love and respect for our culture and laws. If you come here do not expect everyone to like you.But do expect people to give you a chance if you exhibit true grit and aren't afraid of hard work.In a nutshell: if you aren't very happy to come here and become a true american stay where you are. WE DON'T NEED YOU... you need us.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

178 Oct-19   From: taliaNkheldar   To: mjw0123
clarify your statement please. are you also including the legal ones too in your words?? or just the illegal ones?

 

 

a reply to:

 

 

They should all have to go.

 

179 Oct-19   From: cyberspirit55   To: Dayhawk Kim
Yup, expel all illegals. They're costing us more than it will to get rid of them. They pay no taxes, social security, (That's why SS will go broke, if anything)and they can't vote one way or another in our system, plus our companies are hiring them because they're cheaper labor, and they don't have to pay benefits. Not because Americans won't work. Americans are more than willing to work. And those foreigners who are legal are helping their illegal buddies to get here, and then they hide them. Some illegals are buying ID's off of those who went back. When illegal's get hurt or sick, those of us who have medical insurance are more than likely paying higher prices to make up for those who don't have benefits. And the more of this we let go on, the less Americans will have. All of the things we let go by without banning together and seeing something done about it is slowly stripping our country of rights, privileges, and last but not least, freedom. When we're weak, powerless, and bankrupt, the eagle will have been plucked like a chicken. And we have stood by and let it happen. The result of all of this will be that we're just another starving 3rd world country with a handful of elitists in the driver's seat. We're on our way down hill folks. Let's put a stop to it now.
180 Oct-19   From: taliaNkheldar   To: karen1dec
thing is, not every one speaks the same version of english as the next person does. plus. our english is NOT the same as it was when this country was first formed. it has over the years picked up words from other languages. as well as new words being created for the language.

 different areas has different words to describe at times the same object, person, or action. plus each area has a different dialect too.

 

 

a reply to:

 

 

Well just call me silly. I thought that since we were American's and our national language appears to be English that anyone living in this country should be able to speak and understand English. I would also think that should I live in another country like Italy, I would be foolish to expect them to speak English and not Italian. Being able to fluently speak 2 or more languages is a big gold star in my book. So I do think if you are going to live in a country that is primarily English speaking then you should be able to speak it.

181 Oct-19   From: karen1dec   To: atheistgal1
Try reading all my posts. I have been trying to tell people that it isn't just Mexicans coming across the southern borders. Try Columbia, El Salvador, Argentina, Iraq, Iran, Saudi, Philippines, Nigeria, India. It's easy for anyone to get to Mexico from any country and from there just step onto American soil. Not long ago a truck was stopped that was trying to smuggle several young men of Middle Eastern descent. Does that make you feel safe? They are coming to our country where they can deal and sell drugs, launder money or buy weapons not just take low paying jobs. Anyone that believes otherwise is living in a state of fantasy or in a nice quite Midwest town that doesn't see the real problem. This isn't a few now and then - this is hundreds every day 24/7 365. Just because you read of a bust now and then in your State it is not telling the story. Visit a border state and just take a good look at what you see.

Most Illegals head to big cities where they aren't as noticeable. Illegal Aliens also include those that come here with a visa that says they want to be educated here. In one case several men were here to go to school and they flew planes in the WTC. Remember them? Our flight school taught them well. They were illegal aliens and they weren't Mexican. These people come in and disappear and our immigration authorities make no attempt to find them nor do they have any idea how many are really here. They don't stand up to be counted during a census.

And yes - if they are in this country ILLEGALLY regardless of what they have what they do or what country they came from they need to leave and follow the laws we have in place to migrate here legally. They are our laws and we aren't enforcing them because we have too many "candle burners" who aren't affected feeling sorry for what amounts to criminals. They are breaking the law. Now if that makes me a bigot well - that's your opinion. I am tired of paying for illegals breaking the law. Anywhere else it is aiding and abetting a criminal and our own government is doing just that.

I have no objection to someone coming to our country to live that follows the process. More power to them. But if they have to sneak into our country - then they all ready prove themselves to be sneaky and untrustworthy. Do you want them for you neighbors? I'm sure a few hundred would be making their way to your town within hours.

For the record - the company I work for employees a lot of Tex-Mex. These are Mexicans by heritage but born in the States. They get paid a fair wage and enjoy all the rights, benefits and every other American Citizen does and THEY don't want the illegals here that are Mexican. Now what does that tell you?

So tell me what town you are in and I'll post a sign in downtown Houston and tell them how welcome they are in your town to get jobs, free medical and if your real lucky they won't cause any problems. Then we'll see who the racist and bigot is Ms. Atheist

182 Oct-19   From: karen1dec   To: taliaNkheldar
 not every one speaks the same version of english as the next person

Very true BUT you can comprende' yes? You can order a meal in English of some form and expect to be understood without having to point to the menu unless it's a Mexican restaurant . Mispronounce a spanish word and they glare at you. Even the restaurants that are French, Indian, Thai, Chinese, Japanese or any other ethnic food tries to have a server that at least understands and speaks some form of English although I have had non-english speaking servers in places that weren't strictly Mexican food. Ask a Mexican server what a certain food is and they have to call the manager to answer. You might call it a Taco but it's really a taquera. I have learned more Spanish from eating out and shopping than I could have ever learned in school.

And frankly I have a hard time trying to understand what my Dr. even says is wrong with me. They are here legally - they are very good Dr's. but for crying out loud - most of the patients in my area are english speaking and I don't understand. You'd think if they were going to work here they would make a better effort to learn the language better. Think about you being in Germany and seeing a Dr. with extremely broken english and want to know if you have a cold or tuberculosis. Since I choose to live here I don't think it's asking too much for others that live here to learn the language here instead of me having to take classes in several languages. Whatya think? Too much to ask?

 

183 Oct-19   From: oafishcad   To: atheistgal1
<<All I am seeing here is "Mexican, Mexican, Mexican".>>

My wife is half Mexican.

<<Does anyone realize that there are hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens that are absolutely NOT from Mexico? So, do they go home as well?>>

Yes

<<The store owners that set up shop, get work permits, pay taxes, etc... even though they are not LEGAL, they still contribute. You still buy your beer or cigarettes or gas or food from their stores. Do they go home as well?

Yes

<<So, is everyone so pissed off that there are so many "illegals" here that EVERYONE, without fail, that is not a LEGAL citizen or visitor MUST be sent "home" ?>>

Yes

<<What about the thousands and thousands of people that have been here 15-20 years, that DO contribute, that DO work within the "system" as it were? Do they just LOSE the property they have worked to buy, lose the store they worked so HARD to open, lose the whole LIFE they have achieved here in the U.S. because some bigots want them gone?

Yes, they are criminals.

<<Why do you think so many people COME here? They lack the ability to scratch out a living at home. The land of the free and home of the brave, eh?>>

They should stay home and change the system where they live, be it Mexico, China or Haiti. Or Russia, Iran, or Saudi Arabia. Or wherever. Or they can apply and come here legally. Legal immigrants are welcome, illegal immigrants are criminals-do you understand the difference?

<< So you are all saying we are only free if we get rid of the dirty Mexicans? I hate bigotry. That is all I am seeing here. Stupid, red-neck, bigoted, close-minded simpletons that can't accept that the WHITE race is not the ONLY race worthy of STATUS in the United States. Oh, and yes, I am a WHITE person, born and raised in the U.S. I simply choose not to be as close-minded and utterly racist as most of the respondents here have been.>>

You're the only one who said Dirty Mexicans. Would you allow someone who climbs in your bedroom window to stay if they're able to hide for a week? They're still there illegally. Would you call them an "uninvited houseguest" like people call illegals "undocumented workers" ? A criminal is a criminal. They all have my complete empathy. I'm sure I'd love to come to the USA if I was stuck in Guatemala with a dirt floor. There are legal ways to come here. Those who do not are criminals whether they're here for a day or 20 years. By the way I made my living back in the 80s picking grapes-that's right a WASP picking grapes-and everyone I worked with was also American born-in Upstate New York. So the "No American will take those jobs" line is Bull. Pay people decent wages and they'll work. America has a right to keep out anyone they want. If you think we should have open borders, allowing in terrorists and persons with avain flu and TB and driving down all worker's benefits and wages, and driving up the cost of healthcare and education, work to get your Senator and Congressperson to change the law. Until then Illegal aliens are criminals. The USA allows more people into our borders legally than any other nation on earth.

184 Oct-19   From: karen1dec   To: Lachoy2
You know the sad thing is that most people do not realize how serious the problem is. It isn't just Mexicans in our country illegally. There are just more Mexican's concentrated in the border States.

People are not considering the other nationalities that are part of the problem too. Terrorists have an open door from the South. People are here on vistor, business and education visas and they disappear into the cities and INS doesn't have any idea where they are or why they are here and make no effort to find them when that visa expires.

I have a friend who is Cuban and she flew her mother here for a visit. She had to pay for "papers" and a visa in Cuba, fly to Cancun and get a flight there to Houston. Same trail getting her back to Cuba. She could have just as easily not gone back and no one would have been the wiser.

Why can't people see this? Are they so naive? Do they not realize these illegals are hurting our economy more than helping it? It's just a matter of time before there is another attack on American soil and I'll bet it will be someone here on an expired education visa or came into the country through Mexico. It wouldn't surprise me If Osama was sitting in Vegas and came up through Mexico to get there.

185 Oct-19   From: brightmakesright   To: ALL
I wonder if so many other countries are that unpleasant to live in, that their citizens have to inundate the United States. If it gets much worse here, Canada may become even more of the destination than it already is.
186 Oct-19   From: pookrmn2   To: Dayhawk Kim
hello? tell me again what the term "illegal" means.
187 Oct-19   From: danahgraham   To: ritexcorp
<<Sure, lets expel all of the immigrants, forgeting tht we are a country of immigrants>>

Do you get the distinction between legal and illegal immigrants . . . . . or not.

<<how much is that going to cost, and has anyone thought it through as to the benefits? Sure its going to cost over 200 billion, who is going to pocket that money?>>

If we're not willing to pay the price of enforcing the law, change or repeal it. Right now, they're illegal and they should be deported, along with their kids born here and misguidedly given citizenship: if they're the children of illegals, they go -- hasta la vista, adios muchachos.

Dana

188 Oct-19   From: oldster51620   To: Sassylassy
<<Exactly what do you think the word "AMNESTY" did for our borders when he was slinging it around during his first presidential campaign? The same way illegals poured into this country when Reagan used it! The word Amnesty used in any election for the sole purpose of procuring votes should be considered a crime IMO!>>

No argument from me. My only point is that, since the economies of Mexico and the US diverged, the problem has become more and more acute, irrespective of who is in the White House.

189 Oct-19   From: kell4276   To: C'estmoi
Actually they hurt legal taxpayers more than they help them

http://www.vdare.com/guzzardi/health_care.htm

It's ok with those poor black men to be put up in good hotels, meals paid for, until the work is done. Only then will they go back and continue to live off the black women, or more now, white women.

Whats that got to do with anything?

190 Oct-19   From: oldster51620   To: taliaNkheldar
<<thing is, not every one speaks the same version of english as the next person does. plus. our english is NOT the same as it was when this country was first formed. it has over the years picked up words from other languages. as well as new words being created for the language.>>

So what? It's still not Spanish. English should be the official national language and no government material (other than possibly tourist info) should be printed in anything else.

<<different areas has different words to describe at times the same object, person, or action. plus each area has a different dialect too.>>

This is true of *any country: North German is quite different from Bavarian German, etc. I fail to see what this has to do with the matter of illegal vs legal immigrants.

191 Oct-19   From: kell4276   To: laurdolphin36
I SEE PLENTY OF AMERICANS WHO MULTIPLY LIKE RABBITS AND EVEN TAKE ON MORE THAN ONE WIFE....

maybe so..but they pay taxes :)

192 Oct-19   From: montyk68   To: thinkso13
 I favor a 3 strikes policy. The penalty for the third illegal entry should be death with no possibility of appeal.

 

I think Hitler would have loved those sentiments. Just shoot them is the answer according to you? Forget about the conditions and situation that brought them here from their own country or the conditions or situation that induces companys to use their labor?

For starters are you ready to pay three times what you are currently paying for groceries as we eliminate 99% of the farm workers and pay higher wages?

Are you ready to pay more at the store for items that are no longer made for $10 in labor and parts and sell for $20 and are now made for $25 in labor and parts and sell for $50?

You may be right. We may still be able to buy cheap items. But they will not be made in the US anymore. THe companies will have moved off shore, maybe to Mexico to set up their plants. They can still have cheaper labor and they wont be paying US taxes.

OH by the way. About the loss of tax revenues from companies that leave the US, and all the other legal people that lost their jobs and are unemployment now, (probably in the double digits and rising), will you be willing to pay more taxes out of your paycheck to make up for that loss in tax revenue?

Yep Shoot em. lol. After you shoot yourself in the foot by expeling them all and not giving any consideration to the economic consequences.

And when you start shooting all these people coming from other countries what do you think those other countries are going to start doing to Americans in their countries in response?

 

193 Oct-19   From: montyk68   To: Dayhawk Kim
How do you think the U.S. should approach illegal immigration?

Maybe for the sake of clarification I can alter your question a bit. How do you think the US should approach illegal workers? How do you think the US should approach legal workers?

And your question just raises a ton of more questions for me based on the responses I have seen here. I am amazed at so many responses of outright unbridled venom, spoken from an emotional base, that has no understanding or comprehension about the results for which they are asking for here. The degree of lack of thinking displayed is disturbing. The lack of understanding about the immediate economic impact to our nation and in turn the impact it will have on our standard of living is completely missed. The lack of understanding about what will happen to jobs and the unemployment rate does not seem to be even imagined. The rise in prices for food and goods as a result, no one even seems to think about.

First. Shoot them if they return three times? Can no one really see the consequences for that behavior? If we go shooting them, what kind of response is the rest of the world going to make? How safe would it be for Americans to step outside of our own borders?

Second. So all illegal aliens are removed from the nation tommorow. Then what? There are tons of jobs is assumed. Yet why would there be tons more jobs? Many of those companies, in order to produce goods to compete in the world market will no longer be able to make a profit. What motivation is there to remain in the US if they cannot make a profit, but they can move their entire operation to another country, say Mexico for instance and continue to be profitable. The result would be that all the other employees in that company are let go, and on unemployment.

If the company stays, and pays the higher wages, then they have to charge more for the item that they make, toaster, shoes, shirt, whatever. That means that when you go to the store you are going to be paying more of your money for those items.

There is no doubt that you will immediately be paying three times what you currently are paying for produce. Grapes, corn, peas, carrots, you name it in vegetables. Triple the prices you now see at the store because we got rid of 99% of the farm labor and are paying higher wages to farm workers. So the company to stay in business instead of going bankrupt has to charge more to stay solvent.

 

Third: Those that are opposed to "guest workers" is very interesting. Prior to Bush there were nearly 400,000 LEGAL visas given to workers to come to the US and work and return home. The Bush administration cut that number to 60,000. Now 400K is ridiculously low to start with when you consider by conservative estimates there are some 10 million illegal workers in the US. But the number 60,000 is nothing short of a joke. Illegal workers do not go home. They stay in the US because they do not want to pay the "coyote" to smuggle them back into the US at a going rate these days of between $1,500 and $2,000. WHile the legal visa workers or "guest workers" return home to Mexico with their families.

It should be noted also here, that those on legal visas can apply for a tax return for money with held for taxes and social security. While the 10 million or more illegal workers are not entitled to file for a tax return or get any money back. The age old argument that the illegal workers do not pay any taxes now is patently false. There may indeed be some who avoid paying taxes because their employer does not require it. But if that company is caught violating the tax laws they could lose their entire business. Much more serious consequences than a fine for illegal workers. The vast majority of those employing illegals with hold taxes. And all that money remains in the US. Do the math yourself. Billions of dollars into the tax revenue of this nation and social security. Get rid of all the illegals and that billions of dollars vanishes. No small wonder Bush cut the number of legal visas or "guest workers" from nearly a half million to 60,000. So the money would stay here and not be returned. Economic facts.

Fourth: With the loss of tax revenue from the companies that left the US so they could stay in business and remain competitive in the world market, the loss of tax money from the illegals, the loss of all the taxes from those who were legally employed, add the cost of double digit unemployment and EVERYONES taxes are going to increase at once. A bigger chunk is going to start coming out of the paycheck of everyone that manages to keep their job.

 

I recognize a problem. However the solutions that are suggested are ludicrously short minded. The solutions suggested here, shooting them, no guest workers, or immediate deportation of all of them, is a recipe for an economic collapse in the US, because you have no understanding of the impact that it would make on this country or you yourself individuallly in taxes and prices that you pay.


194 Oct-19   From: Thekat87   To: debbadr
Hi debbadr,

Well,,,, finally someone on this subject makes some sense. I agree with you completely.

195 Oct-19   From: sandyeggo4me   To: Dayhawk Kim
I live in San Diego and this sounds easier said then done. You wouldn't believe the things these people go through to get into our country. In some areas, they go through deserts with nothing but rocky (and I mean nothing but huge boulder-type) mountains. The temperatures reach over 110 degrees and they have to hike through this for miles. As soon as the border patrol catches them, if they are from Mexico, which most are, they are sent home. The ones from Central America or other countries, are caught and released with a ticket to appear in court. The ones they caught and sent home to Mexico are back again sometimes the next day. If you've ever been to Mexico, you've seen that a lot of these people live in cardboard homes and have no way to feed their families. So they keep coming back no matter what the consequences. The only solution I see is make Mexico the 51st state which would give us a much smaller border to protect between Mexico and Central America. Better yet, instead of helping countries like Iraq improve their conditions, why not end the corruption in Mexico and help our neighbors build a better economy so they don't have to come to our country for the means to feed their family. Sending them all home or helping them either way is a pipe dream. What would you do if you had no way of feeding your family?
196 Oct-19   From: thinkso13   To: montyk68
To montyk68; I suggested nothing like Hitler. He persecuted innocents. I propose punishing lawbreakers, Illegal has to equal criminal even in your mind. Conditions and situation in their country of origon has NO bearing on our country's laws. My Irish ancestors emigrated because of famine and political persecution. In spite of that they filled out the paperwork, waited their turn and did it LEGALLY. I respect today's immigrants who do likewise. I support punishment for those whose first act in coming to the USA is to break our law.

Talk all you like about eliminating agriculture jobs. My ag employer laid me off when I refused to learn a foreign language (spanish) to keep my $9/hr job in the country of my birth and hired illegal immigrants to replace all who felt as I did 7 yrs ago. Last year the building supply firm I was working for went out of buisness because our competition hired illegals and my employer would not......Hence we could not compete pricewise with those whose labor base was illegal.

There will always be economic trade offs for any govt policy. Your predictions of economic doom scare me much less than the Drugs and gangs now imported across our boarders do. Higher prices and taxes would be largely offset by reductions in healthcare, education, and law enforcement costs for 11 million illegal aliens.

Last, folks in other countries will treat us much the same as they always do. They will be jealous of our wealth, hate us for our freedom,  rob us if they can, cheat us when they can't and laugh at us for being unable to speak their language. Most of all they will beg for our foreign aid and our tourist dollars. My vision of the future USA is a nation of mostly law abiding citizens. I fear yours is a picture of anarchy and lawlessness controlled by third world rejects and hoodlums.

197 Oct-19   From: drewmer   To: Dayhawk Kim
Yes. All illegal immigrants should be expelled. there is a system that must be followed to move to any country and rules should apply to all people.

This country was founded on immigration but immigration with rules. My family came through Ellis Island and had to prove that they were healthy, had money and a sponsor with a job. Immigrants came here to make the country better and to do better than they could have in their home land. Today many, not all, immigrants are here to see what the country will give them. They try to bring their home land here and expect everyone to change to accommodate them. Have you been to Miami lately? Try to find an English speaking store clerk.

We would loose people doing cheep labor. This can be fixed. If you want to continue to collect a welfares check or food stamps then you can work the fields or clean the buildings. It is possible to replace the illegals. Wait make that undocumented aliens we would not want any one to feel uncomfortable.

 

198 Oct-19   From: enoughguff   To: Dayhawk Kim
Would that include BushCo's airliner-bombing mass-murdering terrorist friend, Luis Posada Carriles?

Wouldn't that upset some people at the all-time number one state-sponsored terrorist organization (excepting maybe the KGB &/or the Mossad), our very own CIA?
199 Oct-19   From: pseudolous49   To: Chas47707
Well first of all Chas I DON'T LIKE THE NAME CALLING . IF YOU WANT TO BE STUPID TRY SOME PLACE ELSE .

And no I am not pulling your chain. Why don't you get yourself a few books on the history of the labor movements in this country instead of wherever you obtained your particular brand of misinformation and learn something. My grandparents were immigrants to this country and were given low paying back breaking jobs in the coal mines working 12 to 16 hour days,six days a week. The mines here were employing kids as young as 11 and 12 to work as breakers on coal machines. It took whole families working just to make a living . My great grandfather was a self taught engineer and also was a self taught lawyer in what was then Austria but was part of Italy when he emigrated. He could speak seven European languages and write fluently in five. But until he learned English, he was just another WOP> Since he had helped to design and built the railroad tunnels through the Brenner Pass and knew something about explosives, the mine owners had him set charges. What he didn't know is that the mine was using cheap bootleg explosives. He found out the hard way when he lost an eye and three fingers of his left hand. Tough ####. He was out of work.

Luckily he had saved his money to be able to get as far as the town in which I and my family have now resided for over 115 years and where some of his family and friends from Italy were located. He worked assisting the newer immigrants with problems and saved enough money to buy 40 acres and send for his family. My grandmother was one of 10 children. All of the boys were miners and one died in an explosion in the mine. All of the girls married miners . But my grandmother's husband , my grandfather was smart and got out of the mines to open a tavern and later a clothing store. He sent his three sons to college. My father was the first native born doctor in this town.


My grandparents and their brothers would not have been able to accomplish that much if it were not for the fact that labor became organized and fought for workers rights including the end to child labor, the 40 hour week, unemployment and disability compensation , and all the thing people like you take for granted as having ALWAYS been there.

If you want a wake up call read the story of a lady known as Mother Jones and the history of the United Mine Workers. Read about the Virden Illinois mine riots. You might also check out the Pullman Strike, the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire in Boston, the group known as the Molly McGuires, the history of the Pinkerton Detective Agency, and the history of the AFL -CIO. IF you have a decent job with benefits you can thank those immigrants who came to this country and fought and died to get those rights for you. And they didn't fight and die on some foreign field, but on the streets of America.

Now American companies do not want to provide the benefits the unions have worked for so they send the jobs overseas to countries who do not have the laws and rights you have to your job. Those people live like the immigrants to this country used to live when they first arrived here and were crowded into the ghettoes of New York, Boston, and other large cities or hired en masse to work manual labor in mines and factories and sweatshops in this country.by firms who did not want to pay decent wages.

Were you aware that there were men who went to Europe and signed up whole towns and workers to come to America to work . The people who came travelled on leaky , often unseaworthy ships, packed like sardines. They worked off their passage in the industries that brought them to America and were paid such low wages that they could never repay the debt.? That includes the Chinese as well. They were promised a new life here only to be sent back .


By the way Chas, I've lived in Southern Texas for 12 years and all of my immediate family live in Southern California so I have been in the Mexican border towns from Ciudad Juarez to Tijuana. I 've seen more of Mexico than you have . I have also traveled in Europe from Stockholm Sweden to Rome , Italy and everything in between.and have sent a child there as an exchange student in high school and for a semester of college. I have also had exchange students live with my family.and I have stayed with theirs,. So I would venture to say that I have seen as much of the world and its conditions than you have.
200 Oct-19   From: karen1dec   To: montyk68
Are you ready to pay more at the store for items that are no longer made for $10 in labor and parts and sell for $20 and are now made for $25 in labor and parts and sell for $50?

I'm not sure what state you reside in but every state has standard wage levels and a different cost of living. Now if a company sets up shop in Ca. well you pretty much have to pay 50 dollars an hour just to pay rent. Go to Wisc. and the that same job will pay 10 dollars an hour and you can buy a house for 400 a month total. Here in Houston the job might pay 12 dollars an hour.

Most of the big companies do not hire illegals. They don't want to take the risk. It's the smaller companies that charge like the big companies, pay for cheap labor and in my book they are actually stealing from people. Example - I contracted to put a roof on our building for 56,000 plus materials. The company was independently owned. The day they started the roof the job foreman showed up with 4 non-english speaking Mexicans. One of my employees had a conversation with one of the roofers and learned that they were illegal and getting 50 dollars for a day that lasted 10 hours. Deduct 5 days pay and maybe gas to pick them up and a few odd supplies that we reimbursed them for and that "independent" citizen put over 53 grand in his pocket. He could have paid a fair wage and still made money. That's just greed and if he wants to take his business to Mexico - let him. There are plenty of men here who would have done that job for fair pay.

will you be willing to pay more taxes out of your paycheck to make up for that loss in tax revenue?

By sending all the illegals home - more of my tax money will be freed up thats being used to pay the medical bills they don't, to pay for educating their children that create over crowding, or for the legal system that is caring for the criminal elements of illegals that are in prison. I will see a reduction of my insurance rates because they don't have any so I have to pay for them not to mention a 500 deductible each of the 2 times I have been hit by an illegal. I will see the freeways rid of 75% of the black smoking junkers that cause accidents and pollute the air. I will see an increase in fuel availability since several thousand cars will be off the freeways. Less cars on the freeways mean less road repairs. More tax dollars saved. Now the guy that sells the junkers at an outrageous cost to the illegals will go out of business but who cares? He can move to Mexico or Columbia too.

I don't want to shoot them (although after my new 2-week old car was side swiped on the freeway I was tempted) I just want to send them home until they follow the laws and immigrate here legally and help pay the taxes. Not just Mexicans but ALL illegals.

201 Oct-19   From: lceden   To: Dayhawk Kim
there is a bigger problem here though, and that is big business. if they find its not cost efficient for them to move to mexico, then their solution is to "move mexico here" almost and, unfortunately, it seems to be working. take tj maxx, for example. in my area of pennsylvania, tj maxx wanted to build a warehouse. they went to the township and made all sorts of proposals and promises to the people of the area, which is in desperate need of decent paying jobs. they were given the go ahead, built and moved in. they were also given tax incentives as well. after hiring some area residents, they turned around and hired illegal immigrants at a lower rate than disclosed. they were caught and i'm sure fined, but that has not deterred them, nor many other companies in the united states from this sort of deception. we, as american citizens, have the power to change things. this power is called the dollar. any company should be punished where they live and maybe they will think twice about screwing their employees, potential employees, community neighbors who count on the company's tax dollars to help defray their cost of living and the customers. remember, tj maxx, marshalls, aj wright, etc, all subsidiaries of tj maxx. i will never shop in their affiliated stores and more people should think twice as well.
202 Oct-19   From: melllkittty   To: Dayhawk Kim
About immigration

As an immigrant, I am in direct contact with this side of the society that is in the outskirt of society. This is by choice, because I am a professional who can function anywhere.

Get all of the illegal immigrants out of this country is unrealistic because the economy would not survive without people who are willing to work in a freezer for minimum wage or to work in construction 7 days a week.

The other suggestion is to let the undocumented who gets a job or start a business to get the work permit regardless of how they entered, and how long they long they have been here.

To make more visas available, immigration should concentrate on the people who are here, instead of giving out visas to people who are outside the country. There are plenty of professional here who cannot practice their profession because of documentation.

Lastly, to increase the education of the children of immigrant, who integrate into society, but cannot further their education, college or technical training should be allowed at least for the ones who can afford to pay or who get merit or sport based scholarship. 

203 Oct-19   From: psychmnnnrck   To: ritexcorp
Hey bub; I think you need to contact Dr Phil and see he will let you unload some of your crap on his program. You really, really need help.
204 Oct-19   From: denmcc11   To: ALL
I just tuned in and without looking through everything I already see seeds of ignorance to realities on some, Bush haters who would blame VD on Bush if they could, through their blindness, and a few thoughtful people who really care about the subject. The facts as to cause the problems should be a very BIG FOCUS folks !!!

What IS the #3 highest GNP of Mexico ??? Oil is #1 income, to give a HINT.... Income from Mexican citizens working in the United States and sending their money home to families and others...IS #3 income producer for Mexico. The "federales" actually try to help IILEGALS to enter the US. This is well known from the "other side". There are many people who immigrate and do it the right way. They are a great blessing to this country and fewer of them are a burden. Too Bad, it takes time to do things right and be a law abiding citizen, and maybe we should better address this area. Giving ILLEGAL people rights that some of us work hard for (including those immigrants who have come here legally and are now citizens) do not have much of is an atrocity and should be an outrage to all LEGAL citizens.

Point is well made....Does the word ILLEGAL mean anything ?

Does the word CITIZEN mean anything ? Immigrants have always been welcome in my book but the problem IS the ILLEGAL situations. If you want to bash a president for immigratin problems, send your bashings to the right President...Vincente Fox.

205 Oct-19   From: marcelhjr   To: Dayhawk Kim
SHOOT THEM AT THE BORDER
206 Oct-19   From: zelayafranciscon   To: grsb174
Taking jobs of US citizen? pity on you; why you didn't take advantage of the educational system an prepare for a job suitable to ;you. Gardening or bus boy is not a good profession for Americans.
207 Oct-19   From: melllkittty   To: montyk68
I see you are very accurate, but try $10000 to a coyote, not $1000 or $2000.

I worked at PREMIO SAUSAGE, and they couldn't afford to be worried about if their workers had permission to work. they even helped them, because no one else would help them increase their profit to millions, as I saw. I am an accountant and I've seen plenty of Americans cheating on their taxes, like buying jewlery and writing supplies on the check stub. If these people haven't noticed, undocumented are not eligible for welfare even after getting the green card for five years. If there were no Americans willing to break the law, there would be no work available for undocumented workers. The same goes for drugs. people with money are buying them, not the poor. As an accountant, I see plenty of undocumented payment more taxes than many Americans. they own business, required in Florida so larger American-owned companies can avoid worker's compensation insurance, they pay taxes on fake social security so they are unable to get the overpayment back, or they report tax on the newest IRS creation: ITIN, which they allow undocumented to pay social security taxes, but this number is not registered with the SS administration, so this money, according to my research, is kept in a general fund, which most of the contributors will never have a chance to claim. As you see, we can go on and on, and this is very interesting how these bigots "miss" all these details.

208 Oct-19   From: enoughguff   To: denmcc11
Re: Does the word CITIZEN mean anything?

Sure it does! According to your Fuhrer and his demented handlers, it means that if you are a US citizen, you can be detained without charge indefinitely, tortured, and even executed, without due process, by a Hellfire missle, fired from a remote control airplane, as was the case in Yemen.

In contrast, if you are a mass-murdering terrorist non-US-citizen, you are welcome to stay as long as you like, so long as you are seen as an asset to the inept pro-fascism terrorists in the CIA.
209 Oct-19   From: nazarete1   To: ritexcorp
Sorry criminals-- contribute to www.weneedafence.com then use our hospital ships to send these sneaky characters back. Do I really need to be bilingual to get a job. This is criminal. there are to be no benefits for them and all children born to illegals are to be returned and not given citizenship. Close your company if you cannot make it. it will not bother me!

nazarete@netscape.com

210 Oct-19   From: nacona3002   To: ALL
I have the perfect solution, just as we made up a Japanese battalion to fight in WWII, we make up a Mexican/Latin American battalion to fight in Iraq and start bringing our U.S. Citizens home. I they survive the war, we let them stay in the U.S., but only on certain conditions. First and formost they apply for a Visa to stay, then after two years they can apply for citizenship, if they don't want to, then we ship there butts back to there host country. No free rides anymore, no subsidized housing,medicare,food stamps,etc etc. If they want to stay in our country then they have to prove there loyality and be willing to make the ultimate sacrifice just as so many American troops have not only in this war, but WWI & WWII & Vietnam. NO MORE FREE RIDES. PERIOD
211 Oct-19   From: enoughguff   To: nacona3002
That is already being done. They are called 'green-card' soldiers.

A much better idea would be to equip all of the pro-fascist BushCorp sympathizers with 'box-cutters' and air-drop them into Basrah! That would include John (F**kface) Kerry, and Dick (Head) Cheney!
212 Oct-19   From: Lachoy2   To: karen1dec
You know the sad thing is that most people do not realize how serious the problem is. It isn't just Mexicans in our country illegally. There are just more Mexican's concentrated in the border States.

People are not considering the other nationalities that are part of the problem too. Terrorists have an open door from the South. People are here on vistor, business and education visas and they disappear into the cities and INS doesn't have any idea where they are or why they are here and make no effort to find them when that visa expires.

I have a friend who is Cuban and she flew her mother here for a visit. She had to pay for "papers" and a visa in Cuba, fly to Cancun and get a flight there to Houston. Same trail getting her back to Cuba. She could have just as easily not gone back and no one would have been the wiser.

Why can't people see this? Are they so naive? Do they not realize these illegals are hurting our economy more than helping it? It's just a matter of time before there is another attack on American soil and I'll bet it will be someone here on an expired education visa or came into the country through Mexico. It wouldn't surprise me If Osama was sitting in Vegas and came up through Mexico to get there.

I think most people realize that our entire immigration program is a shambles. It's just obvious that the Mexican problem is impacting our nation in a more catastrophic way on a daily basis.

I know that prayer rugs have been found on the Mexican border and I'm certain it is only a matter of time before someone slips through the cracks who is intent on another terrorist attack. Bush signed a bill that allows Mexican trucks onto our soil without being searched. Can you imagine how easily terrorists could take advantage of that? People who support Bush are supporting terrorists and yet crow about how he's made us so much safer. It's horrible how his administration uses one fear to mask an even more fearful reality in our own country. We won't be safe until we close off our borders and crack down on the amount of people coming here and being selective about who is allowed in. Otherwise.......you might as well be throwing billions of dollars and lives away. 

213 Oct-19   From: melllkittty   To: nacona3002
You are so smart!

This is exactly what brought about 9/11. Do you want another one?

You are most likely an uneducated, underemployed bigot, who could not even get through college. I went to college even though I came here alone and as a teenager, own a business, and now I am a citizen. my 13 yo has been invited to skip high school and go straight to college. your american children are getting wasted somewhere. Again, good for you! 

214 Oct-19   From: gcn10ac   To: Dayhawk Kim
The problem is not at the border. The problem is with the companys who employ illegals. If we would enforce the laws of the land and begin to jail the small and large business owners who ignore the laws, then the tide of illegals would decrease. If we elect officials who won't pass ridicules laws that allow illegals to get a drivers licence or SS card, then the tide of illegals would decreas. If we repeal the ridiculous law that makes an illegal's baby born here a U.S. citizen, then the tide of illegals would decrease. The problem is not at the border, it is here in our government and in our businesses. We are acting and reacting the same to the illegals as we acted and reacted to the illegal drug problem. We blamed the people who grew the drugs; blamed the people who shipped the drugs and called the people who used the drugs "sick". I wonder what we will call the people who hire illegals?
215 Oct-19   From: larr949   To: karen1dec
If your not a native American you should not be in America.
216 Oct-19   From: enoughguff   To: larr949
I think that Native Americans (aka Indians) would agree with you.
217 Oct-19   From: ruthwilkerson   To: nacona3002
I've skimmed most of the comments, replies, etc. and yours is one sensible comment. I would add just one item -- they and their families who are in this country MUST learn to speak and read our language. Then we can stop printing everything in two languages to accomodate those who refuse to honor their new country. IF we went to another country (France, Norway, China, etc., etc.) their publications would not be published in our native tongue just to accomodate us!!! My grandparents were immigrants, who came here legally, they learned the language, and they participated as American Citizens!! It seems such a small price to pay.
218 Oct-20   From: Sassylassy   To: thinkso13
GREAT POST!
219 Oct-20   From: melllkittty   To: ruthwilkerson
I am sure your grandparents contacted the immigration official before they boarded a boat (yeah, right). Have you ever thought that people may be too busy working and raising their families to learn a language? why don't you try to learn, since you're so "superior". Adults have a hard time leaning a language as it is. They (or you) were just lucky to be white and to be from an "acceptable" country. Again, if it weren't profitable for this country there would be no print in other language. If you took your time to learn instead of saying thinks you heard, you'd be able to be more articulate and express yourself seriously. This country needs to learn compassion and to walk in other people's shoes before judging. (I am an immigrant, who likely make way more money than you, speak three languages and have a college degree. How much of that can you claim?000000000000)
220 Oct-20   From: cmjerred   To: grsb174
"Are you not paying attention. Bush is the one who will not do anything about the illegal immigrants. You must be so far out to the right you can't heare or read."

The thing about this is that it's not just Bush who isn't doing anything about this (and i am a Bush supporter and republican, but unhappy with the fact that they won't do anything about the borders). None of the elected officials will do anything about this republican or democrat. If you want something done, you will have to contact your elected rep, only then when you threaten their job will they do anything about it.
Chris
221 Oct-20   From: mjw0123   To: taliaNkheldar
Illegal ones are the ones I have a problem with...

I have a sister in law who is Mexican and her family came here legally, her father started a business and is now very well off.... That's great, I admire her family for doing things right and making a better life for themselves, which is what this country was founded on, a chance at a better life. I have no problem with them.

I have an ex brother in law from el Salvador who came here illegally, he gets paid cash for his job . He had the chance to become a citizen when he and my sister got married, he decided to be lazy and not even try to do it. Now he sits on his ass after work and drinks every day and does nothing and my sister has to pay him child support even though he makes about 20,000 more a year than she does which just adds to the money he gets for breaking the law. That I have a problem with.

222 Oct-20   From: taliaNkheldar   To: laurdolphin36
well they are following the bible in having more than one wife.

in fact the first verse mentioning a husband having more than one wife is in Genesis 4:19. also there is text mentioning on how to take more than one wife Exodus 21:10

 

 

 

a reply to:

 

 

 

I SEE PLENTY OF AMERICANS WHO MULTIPLY LIKE RABBITS AND EVEN TAKE ON MORE THAN ONE WIFE....

 

223 Oct-20   From: taliaNkheldar   To: larr949
i wonder what YOUR ancestors would have said to that. if that had been said to them?

 

 

a reply to:

 

 

If your not a native American you should not be in America.

 

224 Oct-20   From: cruises101   To: karen1dec
Bob Barker should be the head of the Illegal Immigration unit. Have your pet spade or neutered.
225 Oct-20   From: malice1313   To: Dayhawk Kim
Are we talking about expelling only Mexican aliens, or all others, such as those from China, the Middle East, the illegals from Ireland. I'll tell you what. As a Native American, why don't we expel all those who invaded my North American lands, illegally, without my invitation, and all of their decendants.
226 Oct-20   From: malice1313   To: Dayhawk Kim
 So, if we expel them, will you be willing to pick fruits & vegetables, in the hot sun (with no bathrooms) for a few cents a bushel, or do yard work, for others at $5 an hour? Would you be willing to clean rich familys' homes & take the verbal & physical (even Rape) abuse, for less then $6 an hour? You should see the movie "A DAY WITHOUT A MEXICAN" to see what can happen if we send them home.

 And are talking about only those illegals from South of the border, or should we include those illegals from China, the Middle East, Ireland, Italy, & Canada? The question of what to do about illegals has to include those people. The illegal Irish & Italians in N.Y. & N.J. Chinese in N.Y. (They probably made your clothing in Sweat Shops in N.Y.) & Cal. The Middle Eastern Illegals are all over the U.S. (some are no doubt Al Queda. The 9-11s wrer here illegally).

227 Oct-20   From: psaltoftheearth   To: moviecash
We speak what? I've lived in neighborhoods in Boston and New York where you had better be able to speak Italian, or you are never going to be able to do business. Spanish may be the most commonly spoken language in the U.S. other than American English, but only if you play some interesting games with the stats.

I have a friend whose mother came to this country at age 8 (undocumented, along with her parents), grew up, went to school, worked all her life, and doesn't speak more than a dozen words of American English. Her languages of fluency are Polish, Yiddish, and Russian. Does she go back? To where? The country she was born in doesn't exist any more.

Up until a very few years ago, when we lumped all illegals from Mexico, Central America, and South America under "Hispanic" (illegals from Spain don't count as Hispanic, per INS regs and guidelines, BTW), Mexico just barely made it into the top five contributing countries.

There are more illegals crossing our border with Canada each day then there are from Mexico. Do we send them back? Based on the current track record, it doesn't look like it. Besides, most of them count as white, and almost 50% speak English of one sort or another.

228 Oct-20   From: malice1313   To: karen1dec
You forget that English was not the first language of this continent. The languages of the many Native Americans (i.e. American Indians), there were over 600 different languages, were the first language. So, should we Native Americans insist that English should be abolished & say, only Lakota, or Cherokee be spoken here/? Of course not. If you look around, you'll see that many languages are spoken here. Many words that we speak as English speakers, originated in other languages, such as lasso, taco, buffalo, plateau, etc. many of our cities & states are of foreign origin, such as San Antonio, San Pedro, California, Louisiana, Texas, Colorado, etc.
229 Oct-20   From: malice1313   To: thinkso13
 Why don't we just shoot them on the spot! Forget 3 strikes. Let's make any "Brown Skin" fair game. Don't even wait for them to show us their U.S. Birth Cert. For that matter, lets not forget to shoot all Orientals because we don't know if they are legal, or not! Then we can go after the Irish as we know that there has to be some illegal Irish living in N.Y. & N.J. Then we can go after the Germans in this country because we all know what they did in WWII! Next we shoot the Italians & treat their bodies the way Musilini was treated. Then the Blacks because their ancestors didn't arrive thru Ellis Island.

 Get real, will you! If we shoot those who came here, looking for a better life, we become no better then the Nazis & any other group of people thru out history that behaved like them.

 Those illegals come to this country to work the fields (where many Americans won't) with below minimum wages & no bathrooms (they have to use the same fields to Piss & Deficate, that they just picked the crops from, & unable to wash their hands upon returning to picking. Ever wonder how Vegitables get E-coli?) , doing back breaking work in the hot sun. Or they work in sweat shops, for below minimum wage, for 12hrs a day, sewing many of the clothing that we wear.

 Yes, we do need a solution, but shooting the illegals is NOT that!

230 Oct-20   From: kell4276   To: gcn10ac
The problem is not at the border. The problem is with the companys who employ illegals

 

Do u really think that companies alone are to blame.? As if they stopped hiring illegals then suddenly the illegals would stop comming here? Gimmie a break! there are other incentives for illegals to live here than just financial ones(free medical care, free education,etc...) We need stronger protection at the border level,as well as a universal database for employers,educators,police and medical staff to be able to check the citizen status of these people. As it is now they are a drain on the taxpayer !

231 Oct-20   From: malice1313   To: thinkso13
So we should not only scrap Spanish, but also English & use the languages of my ancestors, such as Lakota & Cherokee. You can't eliminate Spanish because we use many Spanish words in our English language (i.e. lasso, plateau, pina colada, Colorado, Texas, margarita, marajuana, California, Los Angeles, pinto, etc). Should we next get rid of foreign foods, such as pinto beans, tacos, hot dogs (i.e. frankfurters), Italian Ice, etc.
232 Oct-20   From: kell4276   To: malice1313
So, if we expel them, will you be willing to pick fruits & vegetables, in the hot sun (with no bathrooms) for a few cents a bushel, or do yard work, for others at $5 an hour? Would you be willing to clean rich familys' homes & take the verbal & physical (even Rape) abuse, for less then $6 an hour? You should see the movie "A DAY WITHOUT A MEXICAN" to see what can happen if we send them home.

whats the problem with them obtaining legal citizenship? As Illegals they are a DRAIN on the taxpayer. Its ludicrous that natural born citizens cant obtain healthcare and scholarships because they are pushed aside by the needs of illegals.

233 Oct-20   From: malice1313   To: moviecash
So, if you can't speak the languages of this country, that were spoken here before Euripeans arrived (i.e. Lakota, Cherokee, Comanche, or any of the 600 languages), then you should be sent packing to your ancestral home country? Is that your point? You forget, the Spanish arrived here before the English (i.e. Columbus) & the Vikings (& possibly the Chinese) at least 500 years before Columbus. Should the Viking language be the language of this country? Get real! This is a melting pot, made up of many people & we can't eliminate one language without it effecting all of us.
234 Oct-20   From: malice1313   To: colleenann77
So, after we shoot the illegals, let's shoot Blacks, then Jews, then Republicans, then the disabled (they put a real burden on the system, what with their constant need for wheel chairs, medical care, etc), then Catholics, Middle Easterners, Orientals, anyone with red or blonde hair, Irish, Italians, Heck let's shoot all those whose ancestors came to this country & caused my Indian Ancestors so much pain. Then, we Indians could re-claim our ancestral lands that were stolen from us! 

 How's that for a solution! Get Real!

235 Oct-20   From: malice1313   To: denaa123
And if your parents had arrived here illegally, worked hard to earn a living & support you & your siblings, didn't go thru those hurdles, how would you feel? Would you want them deported? And if this country said that you had to go with them, how would you feel? My Mother is also an immigrant. she has been here since 1952. She still has a Green Card, but has no desire to take the Oath.
236 Oct-20   From: malice1313   To: jcasimir1
I agree. Most people, in this country are blind to what those immigrants do for us. They should go spend a week working in those jobs to see how hard they work for the low wages that they make. And many manage to send part of it home to feed their kin. Many Americans won't even do that to save for when they need it (retirement, unemployment, etc).

The early immigrants, who established this country, were illegals as they were not invited. They established this country using ideas that they got from the Native peoples already here & then they stole the land from them (half my ancestors among those Native Peoples).

237 Oct-20   From: dalefonk   To: ritexcorp
Absolutely the key word is 'illegal'. Send them back, every last one! We, as Citizens and Owners and Participants in our government, have established legal procedures to facilitate immigration. Anyone who wants to come here can go through the process. If they are refused, that is life. We have no obligation to permit everyone and anyone to enter. THe legal immigrants are generally an asset to our society. Assimilation, primarily in the form of learning and using the English language, should be mandatory. My God, if you think this is harsh, examine the immigration laws of some other nations. The US is still one of the most accepting nations in the world for people of other lands. Just do it legally.
It is an outrage that our politicians do not adequately defend our borders, and that cuts across every partisan boundary.
238 Oct-20   From: thinkso13   To: malice1313
malice1313.............your screenname fits. If you are indeed descended from native american tribes then you should realise that the north anerican continent is no more yours than it is mine. Your ancestors came from Asia. I observe that you have learned at least one bad habit that so called native americans always accuse europeans of. Speaking with a forked tongue. You are a great twister of words. I will attempt to untwist a few of your words.

First.......I proposed rule of law. I proposed nothing more than incresaed penalties for existing laws. You are the one trying to preach the idea of shooting people. I merely proposed a death sentence for repeat offenders. I did not recommend a method to carry out such a sentence. I also carefully referred to illegal imigrants as a group. The group consists of many nationalities and races but they have one thing in common. They are all criminals by their total disregard for the laws of the USA that they have entered unlawfully.

Second........you seem to belittle or ignore the fact that millions of so called white immigrants came to this country as indentured servants. They tilled the feilds, picked the crops, shoveled the manure and became household servants to pay their way to this land. Many of these folks came here before Immigration laws were passed, in much the same way the native american tribes came from Asia. You also convienently forget that there was no national government when the first "white settlers" came ashore and most were welcomed by the "native people".

Third.......you accuse me and the rest of the "white Immigrants" of not being willing to pick the crops or take other menial labor jobs. I'm nearly 60 yrs old, I've spent half my life doing exactly that. I've worked on farms for over 20 years......hard backbreaking work 14 hrs a day, 7 days a week. I've worked in lumber mills for minimum wage, I fabricated sheet metal in a very unsafe shop for 5 years. I never got paid over $10/hr my whole life. Only difference between me and the illegal aliens I worked alongside is that I was born in the USA and my ancestors came here legally with proper documents to prove it.

Fourth.....I never said the english language was not influenced by foreign words. I merely recommended that this country not coddle imigrants by allowing them to live here without learning the spoken language of this country. No other country in the world will print legal documents for immigrants in other languages but this one. The foolish state of California prints driver's liscence tests in hundreds of foreign languages. What a waste! I have visited 23 different countries. Not one will educate immigrants in any language than the ones that are approved by their govt. A few of the countries in europe I visited are bi or tri lingual, guess what? Those countries that have more than one language all teach english. So do many countries in Asia.

Now listen up and try to understand me. I am NOT a bigot or a racist. I am a proud citizen of the greatest nation on this earth. I expect all who come here to abide by the laws of this nation as I must do. I expect everyone who wants to live here to respect my country more than the one they came from. The only color I see in true american citizens is red white and blue. I have no respect for those who come here and fly other flags, including the confederate flag of the south. Call me a nationalist. I believe the USA is the place where law abiding folks of all races can work together and be better than the rest of the world. I don't believe we are perfect. I do believe we are better than anyone else............why would the whole world want to come here if we weren't? Do you realise how many countries in the world there are that we could not have this conversation? So don't twist any more of my words. All posts here are valid. Some are sarcastic and some are tongue in cheek and some are very funny! I will tell no lies to you or for you. I volunteered for the military during the Viet Nam war to defend the constitution that allows us all to speak freely. Please don't make me regret that decision by twisting my words to your agenda.

239 Oct-20   From: schietgeweer   To: karen1dec
i agree fully with all of your statements brought to bare here, except for one of them; the united states of america does not have "an official" language !

another point i would like to make is the following; i'm a legally admitted alien. every ten years i need to renew my "green card". i did so last year in october, paid the required $185.00 for it. i have not received my new card yet, and when i called the office about it they claimed that it was sent over to me in april of this year. believe it or not, now i have to re-apply, pay the fee again (it went up now to $255.00) and hope, that when they claim they sent it out, i'll receive it.

do all of you realise that INS sends out all of their mail in "regular" mail; that no one is responsible for it after it leaves their office ? except of course those that the mail is supposed to reach, for they have to pay again.

sincerely

Guillaume Cleymans

240 Oct-20   From: rrtatlow   To: malice1313
>>So, if we expel them, will you be willing to pick fruits & vegetables, in the hot sun (with no bathrooms) for a few cents a bushel, or do yard work, for others at $5 an hour? Would you be willing to clean rich familys' homes & take the verbal & physical (even Rape) abuse, for less then $6 an hour? You should see the movie "A DAY WITHOUT A MEXICAN" to see what can happen if we send them home.<<

Why does picking vegetables pay only $5 an hour? Because illegals are willing to work for that amount. Without illegals, the cost might double or triple - and the price of lettuce might double or triple. Fine, let's plant and consume the vegetables we can grow economically or do without! Or buy the vegetables from Mexico!

And, at least on the East Coast, there are many housecleaning companies who charge a flat rate and operate efficiently.

But, how many other jobs are priced below market because of the illegals? Carpenters, plumbers, auto mechanics, etc.


241 Oct-20   From: rrtatlow   To: rparris24
You seem to be the one who hates his country, not me. I was responding to your previous post: >>Anything that anyone in the Bush regime, the Bush mafia proposes, chertoff this means you, must be taken with a fistful of salt, because they are only interested in ripping off the american public.<<

You are one sick pup!

242 Oct-20   From: cunnigham7   To: malice1313
<<<Get real! This is a melting pot, made up of many people & we can't eliminate one language without it effecting all of us.>>> ..................................................... Your reasoning is faulty . The fact remains that the borders are unsecured ! 500 years ago has nothing to do with now . You are free to speak " Viking " ,IF you wish . You are NOT allowed to break existing laws of the land . Latinos , who enter the coutry illegally usually will accept low paying jobs and will take advantage of "free " government programs that are paid for by you and me ! But the children of these peoples will not take these jobs later ! THEY'LL WANT YOUR JOB ! It is happening every day ! The burden of tax we pay in order for illegals to stay in this country is growing every day . The unemployment rates are interwoven with this problem ! Yes ,we are a melting pot : of peoples who came here legally and paid the price of doing so . They learned the prevailing language and did what the law said to do . The majority of these people have no intention of staying here ! They are here to drain what they can , then leave ! Besides , we can not ever have a chance of stopping foreign terrorists if the borders are not secure !
243 Oct-20   From: racine125   To: carldezur5000
I am an American citizen, and I have lived much of my life overseas. Wherever I lived, I always had to have a visa! I always had to obey the law. Sometime the immigration services of the countries I lived in were corrupt, and extorted money from me. At least the INS doesn't do that.

However, illegal immigrants actually contribute more to our economy than they take out. They work, they pay taxes, but they don't have access to most social services, federal loans, etc.

The USA needs to have a rational policy. If we need X amount of farmworkers, issue work visas for that number. Don't torment people who marry someone from another country, and keep them apart for a year or more, bring the new spouse home! But get serious about enforcement for people with no visa.

244 Oct-20   From: Roadstop   To: Dayhawk Kim
If we donot send illegal aliens back to where they came from what is the sense of having borders in the first place. Without borders, we are no longer a country and sometimes I think that is what some of these people want. I wonder also what these people who oppose sending illegal aliens back would say if these aliens moved in next door to them. Funny how people opposed things like this until it becomes NOT IN MY BACK YARD. As long as it is someone elses problem they support it not when it becomes their own.
245 Oct-20   From: bowmanhere2315   To: Dayhawk Kim
send um all back .

 

246 Oct-20   From: karen1dec   To: schietgeweer
And because you came here legally I salute you!. It's also obvious you have a grasp of the most commonly spoken language here (can't say English - it pisses people off) .
I have no objection whatsoever to anyone from any country coming here through the process. It tells me being here was important enough for you to do it the right way and that by doing so you have agreed to follow to obey the laws we have. You contribute instead of bleeding us for what you can get.

The green card problem doesn't sound fair to me at all but it's probably the only way the INS can justify their jobs. They certainly aren't looking for the illegals. Can't you ask them to send it registered mail? That is a crime but then the government sends SS checks and refund checks out the same way and they often get stolen.

Again (applause-applause) for being here the legal way. It not only protects you but The US of A too.

247 Oct-20   From: britimport40   To: ALL
I think the immigration policy in the US is a joke. I am a British citizen/permanent resident of the US for 21 years. Trying to bring my brother and his family here from the United Kingdom To live and take care of our 73 year old disabled Mother is like pulling teeth. When America went into Iraq, My country was the first country to step in and help, sending over 30,000 troops, yet it seems America lets all other kinds of immigrants into this country, and my brother is looking at a 3 year wait. He wants no benefits from the US, as he plans on opening his own business here thus creating jobs. Maybe if he was a different color, spoke no English, and had 9 kids, he would stand a better chance. The future of this country is very "Scary" to say the least.
248 Oct-20   From: britimport40   To: bowmanhere2315
will you go out an pick oranges and other crops, in extreme heat conditions for $5 an hour...????????????????????????/ I DON"T THINK YOU WOULD......
249 Oct-20   From: karen1dec   To: malice1313
For the record I have done my genealogy and my ancestors were Cherokees and I don't speak a word of it. I didn't say anything about abolishing all other languages . So perhaps I should rephrase that and use the term American instead of English seems to be the most common language here and Spanish second.

I am not talking about those that can speak American even if somewhat broken. I am talking about the illegals that come here and never make an effort to communicate other than by sign language or have one response to everything you say. No comprende. And when their children attend school - either special classes have to be arranged to teach them American before they can learn anything else or an entire class room is held back while a teacher repeats the same lesson time after time because the non-American speaking child doesn't understand. So should we have special language schools so we can teach everyone in there native language? Not logical.

If I were to go to any other country to visit I wouldn't expect them to know my language to communicate. I'd be the one carrying a dictionary and misprouncing words. But If I were to take up residence there and work there I would want to know their most common language. That is logical. Isn't there a saying "When in Rome"? Doesn't that fit here as well as other countries? Most of the "Hispanics" I know speak 2 languages and I applaud them for that. We talk in American and they talk to each other in Spanish with American words peppering the conversation. In fact that is Tex-Mex. Am I offended? No. Have I learned some Spanish from them - Yes. Have they learned American words from me? Yes.

The topic here is illegals being sent home not necessarily the language. And yes ALL illegals from any country that is not here legally should be expelled.


250 Oct-20   From: dhs121968   To: britimport40
IF THAT WAS THE WAY I NEEDED TO TAKE CARE OF MY FAMILY I WOULD WORK THE FIELDS,I DID IT WHEN I WAS 13,IT WAS CALLED DETASSELING CORN,RAIN OR SHINE,IT ONLY PAID 3.25 A HOUR.I DID THIS FOR 3 SUMMERS.IF PEOPLE WERE MADE TO DO THIS KIND OF WORK OR ELSE STARVE THEY'LL DO IT.
251 Oct-20   From: karen1dec   To: larr949
You lose. I have traced my genealogy back. And my ancestors were Cherokee. My Father's great grandmother was 1/2 Indian. My ancestors on my mothers side came from England and a G-G-G- Aunt married a man who was of Indian descent and had the last name of Cloud. Does that count? Can I stay here now?

How about you?


252 Oct-20   From: crwertz   To: ALL
Expel all illegal immigrants.
253 Oct-20   From: azted123   To: Dayhawk Kim
How do you think the U.S. should approach illegal immigration?
Hi Dayhawk: Interesting Post, I happen to live in AZ, one of most effected states of illegals. We are a country of laws and order that is designed for most of us to follow. Now there are exceptions of course. Our polititicians, the very wealthy, Some businessmen. and of course our police officers. On a rare occasion if the news media is on to them they will suffer what we put up with most of our lives. To wit, obeying the law. It seems that our federal Government failure to do it's job is really nothing new, but just some of the same old BS that goes on day after day in the USA. I really love to hear Senator Kyle talk about our border now that he is up for re-election, of course he knew of this eight years ago and did nothing until the minutemen started to get some attention in the news. The problem extends over both Republicans and Democrats in Washington and their concentration in only doing what is good for themselves. It is way past time for this country to adopt a new method for selecting Representatives to govern our States and our Country. They have reached a level of incompentence that the average American can do blindfolded and so lets pick them by lottery. All taxpayers would be entered and a number picked for each office formaly voted for. They will do a better job and no discrimanation will take place. Who knows, we might just become a strong nation again.

 

 

254 Oct-20   From: azted123   To: grsb174

Are you not paying attention. Bush is the one who will not do anything about the illegal immigrants.

Hey, maybe he is illegal most of his deeds are.

255 Oct-20   From: jamila37   To: karen1dec
Is all a bunch of crap.........we have plenty of people in this country, citizens, that live off welfare, do not like to work and spend most of the day and night in street corners loitering and drinking beer.

Illegals do the work that most of us don't like to do. Lets expel all of them...are you willing to work for $5 an hour six or seven days a week, sleeping or sharing a one bedroom apartment with ten other illegals?

Instead of just talk lets make some good of it, all illegals should prove they are working, issue some kind of a permit that will allow them to stay in this country.

Remember, unless you are american indian none of us belong to this country.

256 Oct-20   From: montyk68   To: thinkso13
You certainly attribute the entire gamut of problems the US faces entirely to illegal aliens. If only the problem were that simple I would be in agreement with you. But its not. The reality is that like it or not the illegal worker is helping our economy or we would not tolerate the situation, despite all the claims to the contrary that it is hurting us.

Even without any illegals in this country we will STILL have a major drug problem. Even without illegals in this country we will STILL have a major medical crisis.

------Last year the building supply firm I was working for went out of buisness because our competition hired illegals and my employer would not......Hence we could not compete pricewise with those whose labor base was illegal. ----

Which demonstrates percisely what I am talking about in terms of economic impact. No company will be able to compete on the world market if the cost of labor exceeds a point which they are able to make a profit. In the example you give above, say they remove all illegals. That company goes under. Or the company simply moves to Mexico and opens up shop. They still compete with your company. Your company still goes out of business. What has been lost? The tax revenue from that company is not going to the US anymore but to Mexico. How does that help our economy?

-------Higher prices and taxes would be largely offset by reductions in healthcare, education, and law enforcement costs for 11 million illegal aliens. -------

The healthcare situation would not be altered if all illegals were removed. We would still have a national health care crisis and increasingly more and more of the middle class is unable to achieve basic health care coverage. The problems with the health care system are far more complex and much more related to the insurance industry and the drug companies and the increasing costs of medical care that put it beyond larger segments of the population. Illegals using the medical system have a minute impact in comparison to many other issues and removing all of them would not help the healthcare system.

Crime is down to the lowest levels in almost forty years. The percentage of illegals involved in crime are also a very small percentage of the whole number. Most of the illegals are law abiding just like most US citizens are law abiding.

The problem of illegals is real and needs a solution. However most of what I have seen suggested so far, is a recipe for detrimental impact to our economy on a broad range of issues that I do not think many are even thinking about.

257 Oct-20   From: montyk68   To: karen1dec
----That's just greed and if he wants to take his business to Mexico - let him. There are plenty of men here who would have done that job for fair pay.----

I am in agreement that there is an issue of greed here in some instances but that is not the majority and not the primary impact. The alternative to the above is to have hired a different company, if in fact another company would have done the job cheaper. 

----By sending all the illegals home - more of my tax money will be freed up thats being used to pay the medical bills they don't, to pay for educating their children that create over crowding, or for the legal system that is caring for the criminal elements of illegals that are in prison.----

Those are all the things that are visible that are immediately seized upon as support for the idea that they will improve our economy. However the idea that it will solve any of these situations is weak because the impact is not as great as the exagerated imaginations. Remove all illegals. We will still have a national health crisis. Remove all the illegals and education is still a major issue for our nation. Remove all the illegals. Our crime problem continues unabated. Illegals have a very small impact on ALL of these. Our crime rate is down to the lowest levels in some forty years. Percentage wise the illegals do not make a large segment of our criminal problem. Our health crisis related to insurance costs continue to rise absent any illegals and continues to create a larger and larger number of people that are unable to attain basic health care. As the "baby boomers" from post WWII reach retirement they will have an increasing pressure on our health care system 50x greater than any illegals.

------immigrate here legally and help pay the taxes.--------

The vast majority of the 10 million plus that are here illegally are paying taxes and cannot file for any returns. Which amounts to billions of dollars into the IRS and Social Security.

258 Oct-20   From: karen1dec   To: jamila37
"plenty of people on welfare"
Yes we do and they could pick up the slack that the illegalsdo now. No work - no welfare check or stamps.

"$5.00 an hour"
Been there - done that and raised 3 kids on it. I was told that since I made "so much money" I wasn't eligable for food stamps" A single parent will often take whatever job is available to feed her kids. So I'm not buying into that. I have known plenty of people that would have taken those jobs for the same reason. There are still those that will.

"one bedroom apartment"
Let's see in Illinois there was a house 3 doors down that indeed had 10 families living in it. They ran a car repair business out of their house. There was never less than 15 cars (junkers) on the street. They were loud and drunk every weekend and I doubt they paid taxes. Here in Texas a lot of them live under bridges to save money that they send back to Mexico. Walk into any convientient store on Friday and they are lined up buying money orders. So much for helping our economy and paying taxes.

You should read ,my other posts. Tracing back my history will tell you I do have Cherokee blood lines on both maternal and paternal sides of my family. So I guess that makes me "legal" in spite of the fact that I was born and raised in the US of A. So are you American Indian too?
259 Oct-20   From: montyk68   To: melllkittty
I have not heard of anyone paying $10,000 to get into the US but that is possible from other countries. Coyotes from Mexico it seems the going rate is about $2000.

As to the taxes and social security with held, I am glad that some one recognizes what is going on here as most do not seem to comprehend the economic machine that it has become for the IRS and Social Security. They only see the visible surface issues but not the underlying issues that keep the machine running. Nor do they have any idea what the impact would mean economically in jobs, unemployment and tax revenue. I can only conclude that the government must feel the benefits exceed the detriments or they would be more active in curbing illegals.

260 Oct-20   From: turtlelax23   To: ritexcorp
Sure, lets expel all of the immigrants, No one is suggesting that all immagrants be expelled, only the ILLEGAL ones.
261 Oct-20   From: turtlelax23   To: 112002.1377
The Republicians including Bush support it in that they all want the cheap labor for big business and the Democrates support illegal imigration in that they all become good democrates whereby they can live off welfare beneifits forever.Two Great observations rolled up into one!!! Kinda like a tootsie pop ; )
262 Oct-20   From: turtlelax23   To: memshui
like their treatment of Africans and what an embarrassment What a tired worn out story. I am sick of whites having to take100% of the blame for slavery. Check your history again my friend. Who were we buying the slaves from? That's right, Black Africans.

Now back to the discussion on illegal immagrants.....

263 Oct-20   From: azted123   To: malice1313
why don't we expel all those who invaded my North American lands, But you know that Indians did not think in terms of owning the land, they went where ever the food was and lived with the land. The concept of owning land was foreign to them or you in this case. In the case of pilgrims coming here from England and the Spanish from Spain also came the idea of ownership of land. We the white men, pushed and cheated the indians as much as we could and even to this day continue to do so, The Casinos must pay a large percent of their profits to each state that allows them to exsist. A state of war would exsist if any country tried that with America. We screwed the American Indians much to our shame and disgrace.
264 Oct-20   From: taryntrystan   To: ALL

I think that I should start by saying that I agree, the word Illegal is not in the english language for us to hear ourselves just sayin it. I should aslo say that I grew up in a town by the border of Mexico. I completely agree with karen1dec the do pose a problem ALL aspect of our lives BECAUSE the are illegal, if your already illegal its not like you can get more illegal when you do something wrong. In the town I grew up in it is not unheard of for an illegal alien to be a violent criminal and threatening the safety of our children and ourselves. This is unacceptable. Something does need to be done.

I also think that the idea of a United States with out the problem of illegal aliens is quite idealistic. It is a goal that needs a bit time before this is acheivable. If there were a way to have what we want now it would be great but we cannot just snap our fingers and wake up tommorrow with our wish granted. On that note I will leave it for the next guy or gal to voice their opinion, you got mine!

265 Oct-20   From: jlbazo   To: chrisd19
YOU SOUND JUST LIKE A STUPID 'NEONATZI", MAN YOU SHOULD DO YOUR HOMEWORK BEFORE MAKING ANY COMMENTS, AND YOU SHOULD STUDY SMOE HISTORY TO SEE JUST THAT YOUR FAMILY TREE GOES BACK TO "ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS"
266 Oct-20   From: turtlelax23   To: martinez5757
all the tasks and duties these illegals you're talking about contribute to this nation They are still illegal. I realize that they are coming here and doing SOME things that you or I would not. And for what? To be taken advandage of by the companies and business that they are working for. That doens't sound very humane to me.

The fact is all illegals pay the same amount of taxes as any legal worker here in the U.S. with the exception they, the majority don't file for income tax refunds like you or me do. Where is all the tax monies they paid? Yes they pay sales tax, but I'm sure that the ones getting paid "off the books" aren't paying any income tax.

"morons" is a word that is not used often enough Name calling is a poor way of trying to validate your opinions.

267 Oct-20   From: ilikemoney   To: karen1dec
Has anyone who is responding to this forum ever been to Mexico ? Upon visiting I learned that Mexico has a bigger illegal alien problem than the U.S. and most illegal aliens entering through Mexico are in fact not Mexican.

If I were Liberal I would say welcome them all and pay them to come, If I were Republican I would create a disease (Latino Flu) and use scare tactics to get tougher laws passed that cost un-whitting taxpayers more and eroded legal citizens civil rights simotaneously. I'm certain that as A RepublicanI could find voodo scientist that would support my personal Republican beliefs and Democrats that would say or do nothing.

I choose to be practical. Our Military could be used to guard the border between the U.S. and Mexico but at what financial and psychological cost. No doubt that Dick Cheney and Bush Jr. would turn over contracting to private Corporations that would abuse and further gouge U.S. taxpayers just as has been done in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The problem is not nor ever has been IMexicans entering thie U.S. illegally. If that were true it would have been stopped long before any of us responding to this forum were born.

Please explain how with the Patriot act, new police enforcement laws, etc that this could still be happening if our government did in fact want to put a stop to it. If 900, 000 mexicans cross the border illegally every year that would be nothing more than a government admission that legal taxpayers monies have been wasted and are in fact inefective in the war against terrorism just as in the war against drugs.

Ilikemoney





268 Oct-20   From: turtlelax23   To: Lachoy2
Why are we, as consumers, not asking who is putting the roof on our house or putting the new addition on our home? If we want to be serious about this, then we should refuse to let any contractor/company show up with Mexican labor and allow them make a profit with them. Because people are willing to look the other way if it saves them a buck. This is the same mentallity that "Big business" has and is not better. I think that anyone, even a Private home owner,who uses illegal workers is wrong.

 If the person doing your yard work can't speak to you in your language, then he doesn't need to be doing your lawn. This is pretty closed minded thinking.

269 Oct-20   From: karen1dec   To: montyk68
I think greed does have the "primary impact" on most of the problems. It isn't the big companies hiring the illegals outright. Hiring this roofing company was not the cheapest one and was more done based on a referral. I had no idea what his crew was and had no control. Needless to say - with inexperienced workers we still have a leaky roof and the construction company filed bankruptcy. Oh but the funny thing is he started a new company with a different name. That's pure Greed and most of the independently owned business work that way.

Lets talk medical - Pedro is taken by ambulance to a hospital. it is against the law to refuse treatment or to ask if you are legally in the country. The Dr. determines it is a heart attack. and requires angioplasty. He is drugged and placed in intensive care until his surgery. Once out of surgery he is released and they are aware by now now he has no insurance. The bill tops out at 20 grand and who do you think absorbs that cost?

Ahmed takes his pregnant wife to the emergency room - she requires an immediate C-section. 5 days later she is released and Ahmed gets a bill for 17,000. No insurance - no pay. Who pays?

Those are just 2 of how many thousands? It has to make a difference. Go to any hospital emergency room in Houston and take a look. A lot of the illegals get hurt on the job. They aren't insured and they can't say where or how they got hurt or they won't have a job to go back to. The state pays the bills.

Crime rate - over half the crimes in this area have Hispanic names attached to the reports. Apartment complexes and bars well known as being Hispanic have rapes, gun fights, wife beating or fights every other night. I have seen brand new complexes that are taken over by illegals that are usually run down to shambles after a year. Check the last name on any given day for any given offense in the courts. Maybe some are legal citizens but again - my guess is not. The legal Texas-Mexicans are fed up with them too. And if I overstate the Hispanic illegals it's because most of the Mexican illegals that make it across the border stay in this state. They blend in better. There are plenty of other countries represented in this area too.

When one of the junkers they are driving dies along the road. They walk away and leave it. Who pays to have it towed? Then to find the owner? Then to issue a ticket that never gets paid and no one shows up in court? Who pays all those costs?

Yes the baby boomers are using their health care benefits and we paid for them and most of us are still paying for them. I was Pedro a couple of years ago so I know the bill was 20 grand and I have insurance - they got paid. My daughter was Ahmed's wife but even though she didn't have insurance at the time - they paid the bill. It took 3 years but they paid it.

I can't buy into they pay taxes all that much either. The bigger legitimite companies aren't hiring them. The companies that fly under the radar do. We hired a Mexican national a couple of years ago in a training program and we always do a background check and drug screening. Came up with no problem. He presented us of course with a SS card. After 3 weeks we received a nasty letter from the IRS stating the SS number was invalid. The employee was questioned about it. He admitted he was an illegal alien and we let him go. We don't hire illegal aliens - regardless of race. I have also had someone walk in my office with an interperter and offer to do a job for half the 14 dollars an hour it pays. IF we would pay him in cash. I showed them the door. I am equally sure there are companies out there that think it's a great deal and accept those offers. No ins., No benefits to pay, no overtime, no accountability. IN the meantime a US Citizen gets screwed out of a job.

The last report I heard was on a news report just last week that the estimate was 30 million KNOWN illegals. My estimate tops that considerably. The "KNOWN" illegals gets me - its right up there with "every KNOWN child molester was brought in for questioning".

So I have to believe from what I see on a daily basis that it is a far bigger problem than anyone who doesn't live in a border state realizes. So I guess we agree to disagree.
270 Oct-20   From: turtlelax23   To: jbdancers
Consider how we are forced to read Spanish on aisles at stores, while store loud speakers give announcements in Spanish. Every product you buy has instructions written in Spanish This is pretty petty. Those of us who live near the Canadian border are exposed to French. No big deal. The real problems are safety, taxes,and jobs.

It will take a tougher government than we have had over the years. I would argue that it will take a tougher government than we have had for a long time.

271 Oct-20   From: melllkittty   To: karen1dec
everybody should shut up and be glad for what they have, legal or not. if we had to live in one of those countries such as in Africa or South and Central America, we wouldn't have time to be bitching about little crap. some of you haven't even been outside your towns and read the newspaper in ages. we'd be too busy trying to survive. shut up, idiots!
272 Oct-20   From: turtlelax23   To: guyanesegurly
No i think it is unfair for them to be deported because they came over here for a better living But after a while where will the "better living" be. It won't be here in the US. Eventually the well will dry. In the mean time they are taking jobs away fro legal citizens AND LEGAL IMMIGRANTS. There are many economicla impacts that illegal immigration has but economics is not the only concern.

These people are crossing or borders. Many of whom are good people. but whaat about the terrorist , drug dealers, or Cuban prisoner that have crossed illegally. We need tighter borders for safety as well.

273 Oct-20   From: karen1dec   To: ilikemoney
Yes I have been to Mexico and I agree they too have an "illegal" alien problem and most of them just use Mexico to get here. It's pretty well known.

I am also afraid you are correct that if the Government started to deport these indivisuals the truth of how miserably they have failed will come to light. There are far more in the country than the"estimates" we hear. I think there are several million just in the cities and towns closest to the border. Perhaps that's why no one is permitted to ask a person if they are legal. The truth would be harder to hide if every police officer stopping someone for a traffic violation were faced with that. They can ask for ins and lic. But all the guy has to say is he forgot his wallet at home. He gets a ticket and sent on his way with orders to appear in court within 24 hours to show proof of ins and a valid drivers lic. or a warrant will be issued. Of course with no valid ID - who knows if he gave the correct name and address or will the next time he gets stopped?


274 Oct-20   From: turtlelax23   To: harsheditor
It is true that the vast majority of them pay no direct taxes other than sales tax. Their employers, however, cannot deduct wages paid to the illegals and thus are forced to pay income taxes at a higher rate than the illegals would pay if they were paying taxes. It could be correctly said that illegals pay taxes in the form of low wages. Additionally, because illegals have little hope of American home ownership, they rent and pay property taxes as a part of that rent and provide profit vehicles for American landlords who in turn pay both property and income taxes

Makes sense.

275 Oct-20   From: nyjoeyb1   To: harsheditor
Thank you very much for your post.

You have offered us all a well written concise and informative post that if read....will show many here the error of their thinking.

I fear that those who would rather blame the illegal alien for their personal disasters will dismiss your points and simply continue to voice openly their prejudice of others different from them.

I am willing to bet that they certainly would be whistling a different tune if the "Illegal Aliens Threat" were members of their own personal group. It is a shame that the people that were here when their people originally invaded this country, did not tell them "Get the hell out! Go back from where you came from!"

Please continue posting.

JOEY





276 Oct-20   From: mmjoker19   To: carldezur5000
if they are not here legally, kick them out. also they should not become a citizen when a new baby is born to a illegal person in this country.
277 Oct-20   From: karen1dec   To: melllkittty
My My aren't you the angry one. I have read your posts and the anger is displayed in all of them. He who yells the loudest does not always win and is usually suppressing the real reason for the anger. So who pissed you off so bad you have to insinuate that because some of us don't agree with you that your opinion is obviously the only one that counts and everyone else is an idiot?

I am not only glad with what I have but I am thrilled I was born here. No I can't imagine living in a third world country BUT they can work to change it . They did it in other countries and this country even did it. There's a reason England doesnt celebrate the 4th of July and we do..

You said yourself in a post you see companies making a bigger profit off these people. Doesn't that make you angry? It's not like the consumer is benefiting from their slave labor tactics. The smugglers make money and these families suffer even more. That pisses me off.

I don't have to live in Africa or South America or Europe or anywhere else but here. But should I ever decide to live abroad I won't be sneaking into the country like a common thief. I would treat the country I moved to with respect for their heritage and make every effort to fit into their society. I would contribute not take. I would obey their laws.

And I make the offer - tell me what state and city you live in and I will post a sign in downtown Houston that you have jobs available for any illegal aliens, cheap housing and free medical. Without a doubt we can increase the population of your state and I will agree not to complain about all the illegals in my State. They will be in yours. Then we'll see what tune you sing.
278 Oct-20   From: grsb174   To: melllkittty
You shut up you idiot and hurry on down and pay a whole lot next time you go into the hospital, because someone else or a lot of someone else's get free health care just because they want to show up in the U.S. Or the next time you call AOL or a credit card company talk to the people in India for customer service. We are being taken over and just sitting back and watching it.
279 Oct-20   From: turtlelax23   To: nyjoeyb1
I am willing to bet that they certainly would be whistling a different tune if the "Illegal Aliens Threat" were members of their own personal group. It is a shame that the people that were here when their people originally invaded this country, did not tell them "Get the hell out! Go back from where you came from!" What is your suggestion to the problem? Should we open the borders ro anyone?
280 Oct-20   From: C'estmoi   To: kell4276
When there are so many jobs to be had and the black men would rather someone else do the dirty work and be supported by you don't you object??? How would you like to be put up in a good hotel and be fed, and the money ($2000) can be spent in casinos and entertainment? Me too.

My point is New Orleans needs workers and the majority of workers are Mexicans. Black and white men that are scamming the gov. get out there and help your city. ACT LIKE MEN AND DO THE RIGHT THING.

281 Oct-20   From: kkm1055   To: dhs121968
AMEN to that ! :)
282 Oct-20   From: yosemite85   To: grsb174
Point well taken. However, the problem with paying for others medical care is not necessarily exclusively an illegal alien issue. More than 40 million legal Americans have no health insurance. Every time they are sick and need treatment, they receive that treatment in a hospital emergency room. Yes, that makes the cost of medical care and insurance high for all of us. You can blame all those companies, who do not provide benefits for their employees.
283 Oct-20   From: bushsuc   To: Dayhawk Kim
Expel all illegal immigrants. They are leeches on the American economy. If they dont want to become American citizens, they should leave and good riddence.
284 Oct-20   From: kkm1055   To: Pegifer1
Also let us not forget that these so called immigrants come to this country not planning on doing anything but exploiting the loop-holes in tax laws .There isn't a day that doesn't go by that I can go into a local Walmart and see these people sending US monies home to there native country .This not only lowers the power of the US dollar but these people live 10 and 12 to a house or apartment this is not only dangerous but it makes out neighborhoods look like HELL.
285 Oct-20   From: kkm1055   To: karen1dec
Right on the money ! :)
286 Oct-20   From: turtlelax23   To: kkm1055
Also let us not forget that these so called immigrants come to this country not planning on doing anything but exploiting the loop-holes in tax laws That is a generalization and not fact. Such things do not help the arguement.

these people live 10 and 12 to a house or apartment this is not only dangerous but it makes out neighborhoods look like HELL. Again, generalization. This statement could be said of US citizens as well.

287 Oct-20   From: Lachoy2   To: turtlelax23
If the person doing your yard work can't speak to you in your language, then he doesn't need to be doing your lawn. This is pretty closed minded thinking.

People who want to be citizens of this country learn the language. That is the only reason to be here. If someone is doing a service for your home and can't communicate with you, then chances are they are not here legally or don't plan on assimilating. We have people who do our lawn and they're a husband and wife team of Americans. White Americans. So the excuse that there are no citizens willing to do these jobs ("not even the blacks") is insane. Why would anyone hire an obvious illegal when they can have a fellow citizen provide services and make a decent living for themselves? That thinking isn't closed-minded, is close-bordered. More people should think about who they're hiring before they do the hiring. I wouldn't hire anyone who smells of illegal entry and neither should anyone else. If people object to the illegal doing the job, the employer will be forced to hire citizens. BTW An article in the paper today has announced that once again our reps in congress have decided that raising the minimum wage would cut into their good-time bucks. So, once again the American worker is being raped. All the more reason to make certain that your dollars are going to other Americans.

288 Oct-20   From: apereztierrafria   To: Dayhawk Kim
As a Mexican-American, born in California and born from 2 Mexicans that received their citizinship BEFORE stepping on American grounds, I feel that we should not allow any illegals in without the proper documenation. I have 2 kids, both me and my husband work full time jobs. We rent our home, we pay our bills, we live our lives to ourselves. We are low income and YET we can't afford insurance, nor can we receive special services or get on special programs.....my son can't even get reduced lunch at school!!!!!!!!! Why? Because, although this may hurt some of my Raza but everyone else is taking what should belong to me, my family and all of my fellow American's. I say, come up with a plan that will help the American Low Income families (and all families for that matter). Get the people on welfare TO WORK! and get all illegals out or atleast off of all special programs that is NOT due to them.
289 Oct-20   From: amvet007   To: Dayhawk Kim
After losing control of both houses of Congress in the 1994 election to the Republicans, Clinton embarked on a program to reshape the electorate in a way that was more to his liking. In addition to using his considerable powers of persuasion to win back public support, he set about creating a new American public. The administration directed the Immigration and Naturalization Service to mint new citizens in time to vote in the 1996 elections. Under the direct control of Vice President Gore, the Citizenship USA program was tasked with naturalizing as many noncitizens as they could possibly find in time to participate in the next election.

The plan succeeded. Democrats have eliminated the Republicans’ majority in the Senate and have significantly eroded their advantage in the House. An analysis of voting patterns across the country shows that voting by new citizens has been the deciding factor in numerous elections, and in nearly every case, has broken to the Democrats’ advantage.

See above. There you have it, the issue of immigration was actually used by the Clinton white house to enhance the Dems. voting base. Now I see where Hillary is using "illegal" immigration as a base for her run on the white house. I think Bush is wrong to ignore the illegal immigrant issue but I also see that the Dems are willing to use the same to their advantage. Neither party has clean hands in this issue. I am sure many applaud Hillary's stand by forgetting that Bill did the above.

290 Oct-20   From: jbrmeyer   To: Dayhawk Kim
Anyone who is not here legally should be sent back to their home country - at that country's expense. No wiggle room - period.
291 Oct-20   From: karen1dec   To: turtlelax23
Of course that also means they don't pay and SS taxes or Medicare. We all know what shape those are in.

A lot of the illegals have family members that are legal living here. That one family member usually has a lot of cars registered to him as well as houses he has bought under his name. The illegals of course are paying for them and there are taxes going out of the payment. However in a lot of cases these houses are allowed to run down thereby lowerig the value of the home which in turn lowers the value of your home if you happen to live in the same neighborhood.

I might also add that illegals will search out owner finance housing. They just have to produce a down payment, pay the insurance along with their payment to the finance company (the original owner) and they can own houses. It's just a matter of transferring the title at the end of the loan. No one asks if they are legal are not - Its against the law.

I have a friend who has rental houses. He "sold" a house by owner financing to a nice Mexican couple for 75,000. Didn't ask if they were legal . They met the requirements, jobs, credit and down payment.. They lived there for 5 years and paid regularly. Then suddenly just stopped paying and he learned they had moved out. In the years they lived there - the front of the house looked reasonably decent but they had destroyed the inside. It was filthy dirty, nasty with holes in the walls, moldy carpet with dog filth all over. The garage was full of crap and garbage and a back yard full of junk cars, car parts . They had been housing illegals through the house. They stopped paying their credit card bills too because he started getting calls from them trying to find these people. My friend sold the house for 5,000 because it was such a disaster and would cost too much to repair it not to mention it just sickened him every time he went into it. Guess who bought it in that same condition? Another Mexican famioly with 3 kids and who knows if he was legal - ya can't ask. Ya can't say no because you get accused of being a racist. So that deal cost my friend quite a bit of money. No doubt this couple went on to destroy other houses.

For the record a "good" landlord usually makes very little profit off of a rent house unless it is paid for. Most of the rent goes towards the mortgage, ins and taxes and you always put some back for repairs. And landlords often pay more federal taxes because their net worth increases with more than one home in their name as well as work involved proving that the profits considered income are barely a hundred a month and keeping all the reciepts for every repair, every dishwasher, every air conditioner he has had to replace. That's a "good" landlord not a slum lord.

So the tax explanation sounds sensible and maybe is in some cases but then you have to know the other side of these stories that aren't so pretty and neat.
292 Oct-20   From: mybabydi   To: ALL
YEs, I agree with all of you. Illegals should be expel but how do you do it when it comes down to children that were brought in here against their will and have already adapted to this country. If they now speak better English than Spanish. If they are striving day by day to be better citizens. I wish things could have different from me and not have to carry an illegal status on me. I did not realize I was an illegal immigrant until I was 18. I was brought here by my parents 20 years ago, and I was only 6 at the time I came in. I had no idea I was an illegal and in fact I adopted this country as mine. I learned the languange and fell in love with it to the point where my language became English, I would think in English, appreciate all the things my country offered me. It wasn't until I was 18, I applied for universities and college that I found out I had no rights to go to school. I cried because in all this time I was clueless about my status, I never knew I was illegal and how could I go back to a country where I was born but did not belong to. This is my country, I may not have given the legal entry but this country became mine. To this date, I feel ashame, I have tried to legalized myself in this country. I have letters from friends and teachers. I am always involved in voluntary services, I like to always strive for the best. I have been married to a U.S. citizen since almost 5 years now, and even though he has petitoned me I am still told I will have to leave this country and go to "mine" I just wish things would have been different from me, the only law I ever broke was entering this country illegaly but unfortunately I had no saying in it. I haven't had any children and only because I do not want my children to go through the shame of having an illegal mother. My husband opened up a business and I help him, we pay our taxes, I am not under any help from the goverment. If I was given the oppotunity to become a citizen which I truly feel in my heart I am I would prove than NOT ALL ILLEGALS ARE TAKING ADVANTAGE, but some do deserve an opportunity at showing the world that we are good people and we are here to contrubute to anythign this country may need from us.
293 Oct-20   From: woodstock32011   To: Dayhawk Kim
Why are we letting them stay in the first place?

They should be returned from day one. Let them get in the legal way. The cost of feeding,housing and medical could be used else wheres.

Try getting the help we give them in another country, is how far they go to help you stay there

294 Oct-20   From: grsb174   To: yosemite85
A lot of the people you speak about that are citizens do not have a job and that is a problem also, so why compound it with illegal aliens who come in just for the health care. There are hospitals around the border and also in Florida that are in deep financial problem for this reason.
295 Oct-20   From: turtlelax23   To: Lachoy2
People who want to be citizens of this country learn the language. That is the only reason to be here. If someone is doing a service for your home and can't communicate with you, then chances are they are not here legally or don't plan on assimilating. 

1. Not everyone who crosses the border ,even legally, can learn the language instantaniously

2. I know some people who were born and raised in this country and their communication could be confused with a foreign language.

Why would anyone hire an obvious illegal when they can have a fellow citizen provide services and make a decent living for themselves? I agree with that statement

That thinking isn't closed-minded, is close-bordered I wasn't saying that border control was closed minded. I actually believe that we need to tighten up our borders. I was saying that your view on people not being able to speak english was closed minded.

Thanks for posting and have a great day.

296 Oct-20   From: turtlelax23   To: amvet007
Where did you find this?
297 Oct-20   From: turtlelax23   To: karen1dec
I was not agreeing. I was only stating that the post made sense as an opposing view.
298 Oct-20   From: willymurf   To: carldezur5000
every illegal person in this country should be expelled. Our government has ignored the true meaning of illegal, and allowed these people to stay. No other country I know of is so STUPID as the good old USA. Isn't it about time for the Americans to be taken care of? Why is our tax money being used to care for those who don't even belong in this country. Why are we educating, in our schools, children of illegals, and at the same time forcing our own children into private schools in order to get a decent education? And should we get into the subject of crime? The United States is no longer a place to live and be proud of.
299 Oct-20   From: danguardking   To: grsb174
All races of men are created equal! But all cultures of man are not! Some cultures defend life , liberty and the pursuit of happiness as our American culture does, but other cultures teach mostly hate and intollerance of others. They can teach lies like that blowing yourself up and killing a bunch of people will get you into paradise with a bunch of virgins. Too many foreign ideas have already contaminated our American culture. This once great nation does not truly appreciate the same set of values that our Founding Fathers once believed in.
Are we in denial of the truth? Look at Mexico and its culture! Can we say their set of values are equal to that of our own? Why is it after so many years they are yet to ever catch up to the US? Do we really want the US to deteriorate to their poor condition? Instead by allowing all of these illegals into our country they have begun to lower our own set of values and contaminate our once great nation! All too often rather than attempting to fit in and adjust to our society and its way of doing things they instead expect others to accommodate and adjust to their way of doing things. Is that a valuable contribution to our culture? Of course not.
Cheap labor only serves the needs of the greedy and shows no real love for one's neighbor. Taking advantage of the poor is despicable enough but doing it to the point that you allow our own society to deteriorate to the condition that it is in today should be taken more seriously. Those who are willingly hiring illegals should themselves face more serious charges. Perhaps they too should face exile from our own country for betrayal.
300 Oct-20   From: yosemite85   To: grsb174
As I said, I agree illegals are just that illegal. However, where I live we have very few immigrants legal or illegal.. Our medical system has serious problems because of uninsured . Actually most unemployed have medicaid. It's the underemployed that have no health insurance. Thus we are paying to support companies that pay minimum wage or a little more, but provide no health benefits. Yes, adding illegals only makes the problem worse.. An easy way to stop this influx is to of course expel illegals, but also to severely punish any employer who hires illegals. I wonder how many government leaders have or have had illegals working for them.? Wasn't Bush's nominee for Homeland Security before Chertoff withdrawn because he had hired an illegal?
301 Oct-20   From: karen1dec   To: mybabydi
That's a sad but often true story. Children will and do suffer for what their parents do. Surely since you have married an American citizen you are "legal" now. There are many stories of women overseas who wanted to marry American servicemen just to be able to enter the country legally. In cases such as yours - the government should make some kind of allowance for legal status.

I know there are cases out there that might be exceptions to the rule. There are in every instance BUT the fact remains that we see illegals coming across the border too often. The exceptions should be reviewed. I would wish no hardship on someone who had no idea what the circumstances of their birth was. And I certainly would think being married to a citizen would hold a lot of weight with the government.
302 Oct-20   From: perezjuanburford   To: 112002.1377
learn to spell hamburger first.
303 Oct-20   From: ogcbirm   To: Dayhawk Kim
i say get rid of them ,, i agree take them back,
304 Oct-20   From: deycallmepiggy   To: Dayhawk Kim
You people don't know anything! Almost all illegal immigrants pay taxes and unlike you, they do not get income tax refunds.... Who keeps all those millions of dollars? The government of course! Illegals contribute to the economy much more than many of you ... You should get the facts before making such ignorant statements.
305 Oct-20   From: vrhoamail   To: ALL
I think that the government isn't going to do any thing about illegal aliens until one of them detonates a small nuke in or near D.C.,or some other act of terrorism
306 Oct-20   From: richardstracie   To: Dayhawk Kim
People who wish to attain U.S. citizenship should have to apply from the country from which they reside and then have to have their background checked to make sure they are not a threat to the United States.
307 Oct-20   From: wuwbs   To: ALL
I have to agree that ILLEGAL is the key word. But if we send them back and make our own people get jobs, what would we do with the windfall of social security, ssi, welfare, etc dollars that would NOT be spent on these people? Oh no, the government might have to give us a tax decrease! I don't know if Republicans, Democrats or Independents could handle the strain. More of MY hard earned money staying in my pocket instead of paying some illegal person to live in MY country, not speaking English. What a thought. Maybe if we all got together and refused to give jobs to these people, or refused to house them without proper citizenship, they would leave. If we refused to support them......We have enough legal immigrants and USA citizens as it is that we are supporting because they are just too lazy to work!
308 Oct-20   From: yosemite85   To: richardstracie
Actually, that is how immigration is suppose to work. Not to be a citizen, but to get an entry visa. There are different kind of visas, student, work, etc. However, supposedly all persons who receive visas are to be checked out before visas are granted. Unfortunately, the system is kind of not working. Actually it is completely broken!!!
309 Oct-20   From: tonysd1904   To: grsb174
we always look for someone to blame when something goes wrong in the country. this people pay taxes and do the work that no citizen wants. most "illegals" don't come here to blow up buildings and kill as many Americans they can. "illegals" are not the only ones on welfare or getting free healthcare, a lot of those are citizens as well. lets not forget who came here "illegally" in the first place.
310 Oct-20   From: wuwbs   To: delsol3851
What part of this discussion did you miss???? ILLEGALs DO NOT PAY TAXES !! They work under the table, for the most part, for cash.
311 Oct-20   From: dancinggirl1955   To: Dayhawk Kim
Hi

Legal and Illegal Immigration has been a bone of contention for hundreds of years, for every country in the world,

take at a look at the UK, they have millions of Illegals too, they come for the free healthcare and benefits,

I know many people from all over the world, and they all complain about the illegals,
get over it, it has always been that way, and always will be,
America is no different to any other country, and in actual fact they do help the economy of the country they have chosen to settle in, they may drain one section but add to another, it is all swings and roundabouts i am afraid,

312 Oct-20   From: Glenhedu   To: moviecash
Just think what would happen if we went to live in another country and refused to speak THEIR language. I bet there would be no special programs to use and abuse not to mention how quick we would find ourselves on a quick ride out!
Except for Canada!
313 Oct-20   From: wms425s   To: C'estmoi
What a racist ass you are. ! If I just had everything I owned in the world destroyed,my home ruined and my city decimated,perhaps I would want a respite from all that suffering as well. If a hotel is putting up survivors of Katrina and treating them to casino gambling,why shouldn't they take it? Just because a severly stressed out person(and who the hell wouldn't be after a hurricane?) is enjoying the free services of a hotel doesn't make them lazy. Saying the things you said does make you racist,though. Of course,you already knew that.
314 Oct-20   From: supvjeff   To: carldezur5000
Send em' packing! our problem is we let up after we start something. Our health and welfare system is maxed now going out to cover their inability to pay like every one else,we all have to pay taxes or the tax man Cometh. Let the get in line we all have hard ships! J.R. Maple Park IL,
315 Oct-20   From: Glenhedu   To: Dayhawk Kim
Send all the illegals back immediately! I can't believe that after two gulf coast hurricanes, requiring much rebuilding, that there are jobs that people "do not want to do".
From 1989 to 1993 I lived and worked in Saudi Arabia and all other issues aside they had a pretty good immigration system. Here is how it worked there for it may work here just as well.
All immigrants coming into the country to work/ live had to have a visa with a sponsor. The sponsor was responsible for the immigrant's/ worker's housing, healthcare, drivers licenses, schooling of dependents, continued employment etc. The sponsor was also responsible for expenses if the immigrant/ worker broke the law, car accident, etc. If anyone committed a serious offense they were immediately fired and sent home- no return visa ever again. Once in the country we surrendered our passports to our company and were issued a temporary visa in a small booklet which held our pictures, company's name etc. Passports were used only for leaving and re-entering the country for vacations etc.
When someone was fired or voluntarily resigned the company had a representative meet them at the airport and physically ensure they got on their flight out. Also, any time we entered the country immigration had a very good computer system which tracked our comings and goings using our visa number. You COULD NOT sneak into the country.
Imagine if we had a system like this. It may actually restore some sanity to our current broken borders which I fear may be our final undoing - terrorism or not.
316 Oct-20   From: diannenrichard   To: Dayhawk Kim
Let none of us forget that illeagals are humans too. People whom are just trying to survive like the rest of us. Before any of us jump up on our soapbox and advocate packing them all off from wence they came take a moment to reflect on what you'd be willing to do in their situation.

I work in an industry where migrant labor is often the only kind of workers willing or capable of doing what needs to get done. Making people on the welfare rolls report for work in these jobs is just not realistic. I have yet to see the day when a qualified american citizen who wanted to work in this industry was turned down in favor of a migrant worker. So the thought or claim that they are taking jobs from american citizens just doesn't wash. For a fact, without their willingness to take menial labor jobs the price of foodstuffs would skyrocket.

American's are going to have to realize that nothing we do to resolve illeagals crossing our boarders will be with out some kind of negitive consequence that effects us all. There is no easy fix to this problem. In fact that there is a problem at all is probably due more to political gamesmanship and fear based media reporting than because there is an actual threat of anykind from any migrant worker I've ever known. 

Like us they just want to work and care for their families. It is a testiment to their personal courage and character that they are willing to go to the extents that they are to achieve that goal. The question in my mind is, of those of you who advocate wholesale deportation, would you be up to doing the same or be willing to report to work in the jobs the migrants leave behind?

317 Oct-20   From: Glenhedu   To: martinez5757
When I was younger my white behind picked crops, worked in McDonalds, cleaned up at construction sites, etc. To this day I've never paid anyone to mow my lawn, shovel my snow or clean my house. People will do it if they have to or want to.
By the way- before we had all these illegal immigrants - guess who performed all these "unwanted" jobs.
318 Oct-20   From: Chas47707   To: pseudolous49
I don't doubt your information is correct. I just resent the fact that you don't bother to place things in proper context. That indicates to me you have little desire to have fair discourse. You just want to bitch. I've been all over Mexico myself and I'm sure you can vouch for the fact that the Mexican poor have it much worse than do the poor in the States. If you can't admit that there is no sense dealing with you. You delineate many labor problems in this country but apparently you know little of labor relations and the history of other nations. Why do you think labor unions developed in Europe? Why do you think Communism was such a strong force in Italy? Try for once to forget your ideology and admit that people flooded to this country to escape economic exploitation in their home countries. They weren't always successful but often they made good. You don't deal with anything I brought up in my last post. If all you can do is repeat yourself and state how knowledgeable you are about conditions in other countries please find someone else to debate.
319 Oct-20   From: oafishcad   To: amvet007
Illegals didn't become citizens under Clinton. LEGAL imigrants did. Do you understand the difference between legal and illegal?
320 Oct-20   From: cj0210   To: delsol3851
"Learn to spell correctly then make an opinion"

I TOTALLY agree with you Delsol, but Moviecash isn't the only poster who doesn't seem to know how to spell and/or who doesn't re-read their posts before sending them to see how they will come across on this board.

Unfortunately, I don't believe that there is a "one size fits all" version of controlling how the illegal immigrant issue is handled, but I do know that SOMETHING needs to be done in the near future. Whether we have a Republican, Democratic or Liberal government in place, they ALL will have to face this problem. I don't believe that one group is to blame, but a good place to start WOULD be with the business sector and then expand on a plan from there.

With regard to the late model cars purchased by illegal immigrants who have no insurance and cause accidents...I don't believe that they should be let off with a summons and a date for a court appearance that they never will show up for. They should be arrested on the spot, taken to jail and placed in a holding cell for deportation back to their own country. Maybe if we're lucky, that would be one of the ways that we end up downsizing some of the illegal immigrant population. I know, I know...Wishful thinking... *small grin*

321 Oct-20   From: montyk68   To: karen1dec
-----So I have to believe from what I see on a daily basis that it is a far bigger problem than anyone who doesn't live in a border state realizes. So I guess we agree to disagree.-----

I am not disagreeing that there is a major problem here. I am disagreeing with the simple quick fixes that are suggested without any consideration for the repercussions.

If the problem were so easy to fix as so many here suggest , and the problem was so straightforward, why then would no administration, both Democrat or Republican seriously tackle the situation forcefully? Why would they hesitate to remove all illegals and seal off the borders more carefully?

Someone in government, after government, after government, be it Democratic or Republican, seem to feel that the benefits out weigh the detriments or the problem would not exist as it does. Someone obviously feels that the problem is far more complex than the surface indications and recognize that the economic consequences far exceed any benefits.

For every example of an illegal getting free medical care because of inability to pay, you will find 1,000 US citizens that cannot pay and are getting free medical care. So you remove the one tenth of one percent, the illegals. Do you honestly believe that the result will be lower medical costs? The problems in our health care system are far greater than can be attributed to the minor impact of illegals getting free care. Even with all illegals gone the health care costs will continue to spiral upward with more and more of the middle class unable to afford basic health care coverage provided to those of third world nations. It s a serious and growing crisis and removing all illegals will not change anything in reality.

As to your contention that over half the crimes in your are are committed by illegals. Sorry but the statistical facts do no support that allegation. I have no doubt that is your perception of reality and that may even be what the media reports to you. The fact is that illegals account for a very small percentage of the over all crime problem. Removing them all will alter nothing.

So we remove them all. Now you claim that crime is heavily in some other areas. Lets say that most criminals are under 5'4. Shall we remove all people 5'4? The argument fast becomes ludicrous.

The truth is that crime continued to drop during Bush Sr.s term in office, During Clintons term in office and during Bush Jr.s term in office. We have the lowest crime statistics since 1965 according to the recent reports in the news in the past week. There fore the argument that the whole problem is because of illegals loses much validity.

322 Oct-20   From: Lachoy2   To: willymurf
every illegal person in this country should be expelled. Our government has ignored the true meaning of illegal, and allowed these people to stay. No other country I know of is so STUPID as the good old USA. Isn't it about time for the Americans to be taken care of? Why is our tax money being used to care for those who don't even belong in this country. Why are we educating, in our schools, children of illegals, and at the same time forcing our own children into private schools in order to get a decent education? And should we get into the subject of crime? The United States is no longer a place to live and be proud of.

I completely concur! The fact that Americans have allowed themselves to be raped and looted for years now, makes us a target for other countries to mock and we certainly deserve every smirk. Americans take all types of assaults on our constitutional rights to a decent life and put it down to "civil rights" and "free enterprise. It's not civil rights or free enteprise at work here. It's greed, buy-outs, political votes and the movement of one country to essentially take hold of another by encouraging their citizens to take it by quiet invasion. It's been a hush-hush subject for years, but a lot of people have been reading about it and seeing the results. The hopelessness of falling wages, lost jobs and use of our tax dollars for the support of illegals has finally pushed for the formation of groups to combat this invasion. Despite the protests of the big-mouths in the hispanic protection mafia, there will be a big, loud bang when the realization that this is not a danger to just the middle class anymore, finally hits the fan. Do you think the Mexican free for all will stop at service jobs? LOL Not by a long shot. Wait until the big shots selling us out now find that they're being "replaced" by a hard-working, sweet-natured, "America-loving" Mexican who strolled across the border and into a society that was willing to give up all they'd worked for to hand out freebies that included college educations because our reps couldn't handle the political fall-out from special interest groups. Whoo! Won't that be funny?

323 Oct-20   From: montyk68   To: ALL
Dayhawk:

Thanks again for posting an interesting topic. Unfortunately from the responses I do not see much thinking involved beyond short term fixes and no consideration of consequences. I do recognize the problem as a serious one, but I see mostly a thinly disguised bias couched under thinly veiled bias that does not give any consideration to the consequences or the outcome, let alone economic impact.

The important thing that is missed by all in Chertoffs argument here is --- "Almost 900,000 Mexicans caught entering the U.S. each year are returned immediately, but others have simply overwhelmed the existing system with sheer numbers. "

The statement is not clear in the article that you have sited but I have read other articles and heard other reports that are more clear. While the Mexicans are returned immediately, those from other nationalities are given a court date and "order to appear" on that court date, and release into the US. In the courts that handle these cases, 98% of these people are "no shows". To my thinking that translates to a major serious hole in our national security which fails to address the problem of possible infiltration of terrorists into the US. Say a person is from an Arab country. The coyotes encourage them to go ahead and stand up and have the Border Patrol arrest them, because they already know that what will happen is these individuals who are not Mexican will be given an order to appear in court and released into the US. The very people who have the most potential for terrorism are essentially given free access through our borders under the current procedure. That loophole MUST be closed for the sake of national security.

Pre Bush there were legal work Visas. A Mexican could apply, the company wishing to hire them had to demonstrate that they had tried to hire US citizens for the job and could not. Then the company pays the $1,200 -$1,500 per worker to get a legal work Visa. The Visa has a specific duration of time. The worker MUST reutrn to Mexico or the company faces fines. In the past these workers came in typically for a few months or six month as season employees, worked the job, and returned to Mexico. However, the Bush administration dropped the legal work Visas placing a cap of 60,000 nationally. A ridiculously low number when we have some 1,000 employed in our small community alone, on those legal work visas. So the cap on legal visas is put in place. But the jobs that they were emplyed in still need workers. The businesses still cannot get any response from ads they run in the newspaper for help. So these workers now return to the jobs, this time as illegals. If they did not, these businesses would be forced to close shop. Landscaping, gardening, housekeeping for hotels and motels, industrial plant labor, construction labor, farm workers. All jobs typically long hours

A factual example, an ad was run in the newspaper for six months in advance of summer asking for employees to work with a major landscaping company. Starting in January the ad ran every week in the newspaper. The ad continued to run March, April May. Not a single applicant for jobs starting at $10. an hour to $15. an hour. The job was typically 12 hours a day, six and seven days a week depending on rain. No Americans would work those hours. The company then applied for and received 12 legal work visas and brought legal workers from Mexico. At the end of the summer when the jobs were done and winter started, they all went home. Taxes and SSI was with held from those checks. They were legal workers so they could file for and get money returned to them.

Now Bush limits the Visas to 60,000 nationally. The company applies for 12 legal work visas and gets none. They are out of business. OR the workers from the previous year re enter the US illegally and come to work. They pay the coyote to get into the US instead of the US government fees. They still have taxes and SSI taken from their check but they are not permitted to file for that return as they are not legal despite providing green cards and social security numbers. When the work is done at the end of the summer, most of them do not return to Mexico because they will have to pay the Coyotes again to get back into the US. LEGAL workers go back to their homes and families in Mexico. Illegal workers do not. The action of Bush in putting a cap on 60,000 legal work visas nationally only exacerbated the problem and did nothing to alleviate the situation. EXCEPT, the government now kept the tax and SSI on those employees that could not file for a return as they are illegal.

The bottom line is, that the situation is a crisis. But there is no easy fix. And apparently the government believes the financial gains exceed the financial costs, or it would not still be happening.

The loss of 206 billion a year is substantial incentive for the Government to continue business as usual at the current illegal worker rate, rather than make changes.

Yet some here are even opposed to the legal work visas, which indicates they have little understanding of how the problem works or what the economic impacts would be.

I believe you could hire enough border officers to link arms across the entire border of the US and it would not put a dent in the illegal workers getting into this nation. Spending more money on border patrol officers is just flushing more money down the toilet. It alters nothing. The problem is far far bigger than that easy fix.

 

324 Oct-20   From: montyk68   To: supvjeff
If I actually could believe you that our health care system and crime situation and welfare system would actually demonstrate a significant reduction by removing all illegals I would be 100% behind this idea.

The problem is that factually the impact on the health care system is less than one percent of the total costs, the problem on the welfare system and crime system represents less than 3 % of the total costs.

On the other hand, the loss of revenue economically runs into billions per year. Absent farm workers prices on produce will increase 3x what you currently pay at the store.

Yes its a problem. But a far more intelligent solution than any simple quick fix without any consideration for the economic consequences are not going to help, only make the problem worse in other areas.

 

325 Oct-20   From: ilikemoney   To: karen1dec
I could'nt carry a tune in a tin bucket but I can see that the problem will not be solved with beauracy and I do in fact refuse to allow any Democrat or Republican the luxury of another bandwagoning, scare tactic that would no doubt lead to the further erosion american civil rights.

Just answer 2 questions.

1. If Illegal aliens are such a big problem why don't we just build a wall just as China and Berlin did.

2. If terrorism is being effectively fought then how in the name of Pete are 900,000 mexicans making it across every year without government help ?

I have also held residence in Waco, and Elpaso Texas as well as Colorado and New Mexico. The last time that I visited Miami LAX all of the signs were in Spanish as well as the voices on the overhead speakers.

I don't speak Spanish but I have chose to Learn N.C. and S.C. also is learning to adapt to Latino needs. It's only fair they learn English too.

P.S. Indians did tell the White Devil's to leave. Instead of leaving they killed all the Buffalo, starving the Indians into submission. The White man took their land, Raped their women and put them on reservations. If my memory of history serves me correctly Mexicans also told the White Devil to go home. Instead the White Devil conquered the Mexican and took the State of Texas for their troubles
326 Oct-20   From: amvet007   To: Dayhawk Kim
I will keep trying to get my own opinion across. I know the following is not Bush bashing or big business bashing but it is still true. If other posters on this forum can feel comfortable with the following fine. I do not find much good in either the Dems or the Reps and this item plus the one below are prime examples of why. Post edited by amvet007. I found my earlier post. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

But perhaps more significant than the sheer numbers of people who settled here during the Clinton years, was the dramatic redefinition of the purpose of immigration policy and the relationship between immigrants and their adopted country. Two subtle, but significant shifts occurred during the last eight years that are worth noting: U.S. citizenship was turned into a political commodity, and immigrants became America’s “customers.”

After losing control of both houses of Congress in the 1994 election to the Republicans, Clinton embarked on a program to reshape the electorate in a way that was more to his liking. In addition to using his considerable powers of persuasion to win back public support, he set about creating a new American public. The administration directed the Immigration and Naturalization Service to mint new citizens in time to vote in the 1996 elections. Under the direct control of Vice President Gore, the Citizenship USA program was tasked with naturalizing as many noncitizens as they could possibly find in time to participate in the next election.

327 Oct-20   From: amvet007   To: turtlelax23
Where did you find this

A site called Federation for American Immigration Reform.

328 Oct-20   From: amvet007   To: Glenhedu
Just think what would happen if we went to live in another country and refused to speak THEIR language. I bet there would be no special programs to use and abuse not to mention how quick we would find ourselves on a quick ride out!
Except for Canada

?? Canadians speak a different language than the US??

Or are you talking about the deserters from the Armed Forces who voluntarily entered the service then decided they didnt want to stay for their full contract?? There are 30+ deserters in Canada right now facing deportation for being ILLEGAL. Do you think they should be sent back to the states with no judicial hearing?? Or how about just shooting them like someone else on this forum has suggested??? By the way they are working illegally in Canada.

329 Oct-20   From: amvet007   To: oafishcad
Illegals didn't become citizens under Clinton. LEGAL imigrants did. Do you understand the difference between legal and illegal?

Of course I understand the difference. Do you understand that a child born in the US is automatically becomes a US citizen.?? Do YOU approve of Clinton using the immigrant vote for his own agenda? Do YOU know any people personally that work in fields doing stoop labor? I was just trying to point out that both the Dems (for political gain) and the Reps (for business gain) utilize the immigrant problem both legal and illegal.

330 Oct-20   From: karen1dec   To: ilikemoney
1. If Illegal aliens are such a big problem why don't we just build a wall just as China and Berlin did.
I personally would not have a problem with that BUT you can bet there would be a bunch of "candle burners", ACLU and the NAACP and Jesse Jackson types screaming about how heartless we are. Add to that the fact that not one member of government has the guts to make such a descision.

2. If terrorism is being effectively fought then how in the name of Pete are 900,000 mexicans making it across every year without government help ?

The government is helping them by turning their heads and winking every day and not even making an attempt to bring them in and send them home. Illegals have become a highly explosive controversy that no administration wants to handle effectively.

P.S. Indians did tell the White Devil's to leave. Instead of leaving they killed all the Buffalo, starving the Indians into submission. The White man took their land, Raped their women and put them on reservations. If my memory of history serves me correctly Mexicans also told the White Devil to go home. Instead the White Devil conquered the Mexican and took the State of Texas for their troubles

I all ready noted I have Indian ancestors and at this time of my life considering where and how I live - it is a part of history that unfortunately happened that put me here. And yes - remember the Alamo. Texas fought hard to win their independence and from 5 Sovereign countries. And the Americans fought to settle this land we call home. Aren't you glad? History doesn't always tell a pretty story and hopefully we learn from it. The sad thing we are still fighting to keep what we have and the freedom we enjoy. And I for one will keep fighting. 

331 Oct-20   From: wise14shr   To: apereztierrafria
>As a Mexican-American, born in California and born from 2 Mexicans that received their citizinship BEFORE stepping on American grounds,..<

I certainly agree with you post. But now you are on the Democrats sh*t list for sure.

332 Oct-20   From: jcasimir1   To: ALL
<<Just because this is America we all must speak English? Last time I checked we here in America have no official language.>>

indeed. last time i checked in these forums, the standard language is broken english, typically with spelling and grammar below 9th grade standards.

lest we forget, the first europeans here spoke...spanish.
now our hispanic brethren, legal and illegal, are the fastest-growing ethnic group in the country. as you may have noticed in many urban settings, in order to provide constituent service, government and other institutions have become bi- or multilingual. so have a multitude of packaged consumer products, DVD movies, software, ATMs, help lines, sales people, and, indeed, politicians. mr. and mrs. bush speak fairly decent if accented spanish.

my nearest ATM offers transactions in english, spanish, russian (a thousand soviet emigres in the nabe, many of them with substantial assets, most obtained lawfully), french (no idea why), and polish. of course, that's spelled "polilish." not sure if the funds are denominated in zlotys.

kind regards,

*gig*

333 Oct-20   From: belching4you   To: jcasimir1
indeed. last time i checked in these forums, the standard language is broken english, typically with spelling and grammar below 9th grade standards.

ROFLMAO...............!

334 Oct-20   From: jcasimir1   To: ALL
<<I think that the government isn't going to do any thing about illegal aliens until one of them detonates a small nuke in or near D.C.,or some other act of terrorism>>

aha. like mara salvatrucha, sombra negra, or another of those central american gangs with WMDs.

"we don't want the cuchifritos to be a mushroom cloud."

psst. the small nuke will not enter the u.s. in a group of people smuggled by coyotes. the perpetrators, like those of 9/11, will have all their papers in order.

then again, maybe you and the administration would like to place mexico, guatemala, honduras, and nicaragua on the axis of evil, and pre-emptively invade as soon as we're finished with iraq, iran, syria, and el barrio.

viva NAFTA. viva los maquiladores. viva la huelga. venceremos.

kind regards,

casimir

335 Oct-20   From: jcasimir1   To: ALL
<<We have enough legal immigrants and USA citizens as it is that we are supporting because they are just too lazy to work!>>

really. and how many of those would there be, and what do they cost the government in terms of dollars and % of annual outlays?

how much does the average SSI recipient get? what does your state pay in cash welfare benefits per person, and for how many months? what is the average value of food stamps to a family of four? oh. and why don't you see people with food stamps in the checkout line any more, so now you can't view them with contempt?

you have no idea, do you? and you have no interest in finding out

wassamatta? middle-class entitlements aren't enough for you? bush tax cuts didn't save you enough of your hard-earned money? bummer.

here's a thought: get rich. top tax rate on unearned income -- dividends, capital gains, etc. -- is 15%. top rate on wages and salaries is 35%. reward wealth, penalize work.

but hey, this is america, so you have all the opportunity to make a fortune as they next guy. as an alternative, take your assets and emigrate to mexico, where the dollar goes a lot further. oh. and the price of flour for tortillas is low because of popular, long-standing government subsidies.

vaya con dios.

kind regards,

casimir

336 Oct-20   From: taliaNkheldar   To: azted123
you are putting all Native Americans into the same category- hunters. they were the ones who moved with the food source. and you forget that they were and are territorial. in other words, they did battle with other Nations over land too. in St Paul is burial Mounds where one Nation buried those they killed in pursuit of land

whereas the farmer type Native Americans stayed where they had crops growing. like the Dinahs

 

 

 

a reply to:

 

 

 But you know that Indians did not think in terms of owning the land, they went where ever the food was and lived with the land

337 Oct-20   From: taliaNkheldar   To: turtlelax23
especially those with a speech defect.

 

 

a reply to:

 

 

2. I know some people who were born and raised in this country and their communication could be confused with a foreign language.

338 Oct-20   From: taliaNkheldar   To: karen1dec
yep, she is now legal thru her marriage.

 

 

a reply to:

 

 

That's a sad but often true story. Children will and do suffer for what their parents do. Surely since you have married an American citizen you are "legal" now. There are many stories of women overseas who wanted to marry American servicemen just to be able to enter the country legally. In cases such as yours - the government should make some kind of allowance for legal status.

339 Oct-20   From: taliaNkheldar   To: wuwbs
not those who have false green cards. for how often are those checked? if they get a job that reports any and all taxes paid, then they are paying taxes. not all work for cash under the table

 

 

a reply to:

 

 

What part of this discussion did you miss???? ILLEGALs DO NOT PAY TAXES !! They work under the table, for the most part, for cash.

340 Oct-20   From: C'estmoi   To: wms425s
BooHoo, BooHoo, what a bleeding heart you are. You may call me a racist ass but I volunteered right after Katrina. I served lunch and dinner to black Americans and some white Americans. It did not hurt me. I felt for these people. There were many women and children also men and boys. I fed all that came through the line.
My daughters came to help and spent their own money to buy undergarmants for men and women.

What did you dowms425s????

As far as illegals, who do you suggest to clean up the mess in N.O. Without illegals there would not be too many people rushing to work in the contamination to make the money to feed their families. Those that came should be given citizenship.

Again, what did you do and what are you doing now whilst you are bitching and calling names?????????

341 Oct-20   From: jcasimir1   To: malice1313
this bears repeating.

<<I agree. Most people, in this country are blind to what those immigrants do for us. They should go spend a week working in those jobs to see how hard they work for the low wages that they make. And many manage to send part of it home to feed their kin. Many Americans won't even do that to save for when they need it (retirement, unemployment, etc).

The early immigrants, who established this country, were illegals as they were not invited. They established this country using ideas that they got from the Native peoples already here & then they stole the land from them (half my ancestors among those Native Peoples).>>

thanks. points well taken. did i mention that i'm a big fan of buffy ste.-marie? <s>

hey, at least my own dutch ancestors, who arrived here with no passports, no visas, no green cards, only the profit motive, paid your ancestors for manhattan. even after they flipped the property to the british, for nutmeg no less, they continued to prosper in the family business, human resources import/export.

collective guilt? nahh. the other side of the family is polish. my grandparents were illiterate in both english and their native language, but gave each of five children a brick house, deeds signed with an "X."

kind regards,

casimir

342 Oct-20   From: jcasimir1   To: ALL
[[just to be picky-picky, they're not criminals until arrested, prosecuted, and convicted, then to be incarcerated or deported. now they're mostly just sent back across the border to enter again.]]

<<Actually anyone who engages in criminal activity (such as criminal tresspass) ia a criminal, whether or not they're convicted. The activity itself is what makes one a criminal-not the conviction.>>

i gather you are a moral philosopher, not an attorney.

as to immigration law generally, it seems to be unenforceable in at least 11 million cases, and impractical to enforce on those 11 million now. no enforcement, no deterrent, no consequences, law honored only in the breach, and thus not much of a law except on paper. again, do review congressional efforts to make the law effective.

<<As for the economy is dependent on them-Bulloney. Yes prices would go up if all the illegals were deported (which will never happen), But no, we are not dependant. That's just another argument from the apologists who want illegals here, for whatever reason. Many industries where there used to be decent paying jobs with good benefits are now low paying jobs with no benefits. It isn't the economy that's dependent, it's people who want the US economy to be done on the cheap who are dependent.>>

don't take my word for it. check out business week and the WSJ, hardly liberal media. also note which businesses are lobbying to make the illegals legal. i wouldn't call the majority of the fortune 500 "apologists."

as to "industries where there used to be decent paying jobs with good benefits are now low paying jobs with no benefits," you forgot to add that some industries are no longer in business here. compete or lose. for that, thank the laws of the free marketplace. violate those at your peril. whatever the congress does or does not do, those laws cannot be repealed, and are invariably, universally obeyed, one way or another, willingly or otherwise

welcome to the global economy.

kind regards,

casimir

343 Oct-20   From: mebcrazymike   To: karen1dec
We could never find all the illegals and deport them. Start where is begins, at the border.

Whatever it takes, keep these people out of the United States.

Mike Bennett

Wheelersburg, Oh

344 Oct-21   From: supvjeff   To: montyk68
m---My wife works for a large hospital in our area as a financial rep for the hospital a liaison between the state and welfare system the miniscule number you throw around needs to be looked at further you don't know what's going on ! if you did it would make you sick too!
345 Oct-21   From: denmcc11   To: ALL
It is curious that many sides of several general opinions are thrown around. However, the oft mentioned concepts of expelling vs work/health matters, in all seem to ignore the fact that the Government of Mexico (and a few others I'm sure) actually support immigration to the US by any means. Illegals in the US have more support due to the hugh economic engine they represent to the Gov of Mexico. It is a fact, that the #3 gross national product $$ of the Mexican economy is the funds sent home from the US largely by those Illegals. It seems that legal immigrants usually establish more permanent relationships, homes, etc that turn US dollars into the US economy. The overwhelming majority of Illegals do not. It is far less expensive for Mexico to encourage immigration of any kind to the US on several other economic fronts including the Healthcare issues some discuss. Mexico, although having some very high quality healthcare, is very reluctant to help pay for their own lower income people. It is more economicly feasable to encourage these to immigrate (especially illegaly) to the US, send big collective $ back to the Mexican economy (hence the "haves" pockets) and have US shoulder the costs, including health care.

These "state sponsored" interests are largely ignored due to the partisian discussions that are abundant in the US concerning racism, blame for Politicians of Dems, Reps, Inds, and general crap that other countries take advantage of. Plain, but not simple, our "friends" south of the border are stabbing us in the back with their hands in our pockets so much more than those hapless fodder of persons that come here trying to care for their families the best way they can in the Best country on earth. They get used as illegals here, and they get used for $ by their own country's leaders!

I regularly go back and forth from San Antonio to Monterrery Mex, and hear much more truth by listening to the "horse" being ridden on both sides of the border.

346 Oct-21   From: turtlelax23   To: amvet007
Thanks, I will look it up and do some research.

Have a great weekend

347 Oct-21   From: montyk68   To: supvjeff

I am well aware of what is going on and it legitimately is a big problem. However in terms of the total picture of problems in our health care system even if it were completely removed it will not put a dent in the health care system problems of our nation and to think otherwise is simply not accurate.

The quick fixes I see offered like simply removing all illegals from our country will have economic impacts that are not being addressed or even considered. Dealing with the symptom, what is seen visibly on the surface, does not address the underlying causes and no quick fix is going to remedy the situation without taking full consideration of those causes.

The vast majority here indicate by their comments they have not given the slightes consideration to why. They just want to be rid of it. And the methods they suggest will have a greater detriment to the economy than they understand.

348 Oct-21   From: delsol3851   To: wuwbs
ARE YOU 100% SURE THAT THEY ALL GET PAID CASH????

WHAT ABOUT THE ONES WHO WORK THRU A STAFFING AGENCY, THEY DON'T GET PAID

CASH AND LIKE EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US THEY TAKE OUT THEIR TAXES . FACTORIES ALSO

EMPLOY THEM AND AGAIN THEY DON'T PAY CASH , OF COURSE I KNOW THERE ARE SOME

WHO DO BUT DON'T GENERALIZE EVERYTHING

349 Oct-21   From: wuwbs   To: delsol3851
Didn't expect ALL to get paid cash, but there are many. And the point you make about them working for staffing companies just hits home that the employers are just as illegal as the workers. It all boils down to the same thing.......GO LEGAL. I don't care where you are from, or what color you are or your religion, etc......Just go through the right channels and do what is LEGAL. If you don't respect our laws, then don't come here. That goes for the employers who hire illegals.
350 Oct-21   From: oafishcad   To: amvet007
<<Do you understand that a child born in the US is automatically becomes a US citizen.??>>
Yes that's part of our Constitution. It would take a Constitutional ammendment to change it.
<<Do YOU approve of Clinton using the immigrant vote for his own agenda?>>
Of course I do, Just as Bush uses the racist and Homophobic vote as part of his agenda.
<<Do YOU know any people personally that work in fields doing stoop labor?>>
Funny you should mention it. I worked picking grapes in the 80s with an all American, all legal, group of grape pickers in Upstate New York. The BS that AMericans won't do it is just that-BS.
<<I was just trying to point out that both the Dems (for political gain) and the Reps (for business gain) utilize the immigrant problem both legal and illegal.>>
Yes, we agree; and there is a huge difference between legal and illegal. It's the difference between an invited houseguest and someone who climbs in your window.
351 Oct-21   From: karen1dec   To: montyk68
I never said there was an easy fix for the immigration problem BUT we NEED to do something. I would encourage you and anyone else that doesn't think illegals have an impact financially on our country check out the Center for Immigration Studies @ www.cis.org and www.eagleforum.org
There are specifics about illegals and the many articles on just what it is costing our Healthcare, education, and incarceration of Illegals. if you want more facts and figures just do a search keywords "illegal alien and type in a state if you want and you might just be shocked at what you read even for whatever state you live in.
The border states have it the worse and maybe people that aren't as effected don't have a problem with it. But it is everyone's problem.

Are you aware that illegal aliens can get state funded loans to attend college at the state tuition fees? Many native born Americans can't qualify? Are you aware that diseases that had all but vanished in our country are coming back? Tuberculosis, leprosy, polio, dengue fever to name a few and the WHO and the Public Health Office attribute it to illegal aliens that arrive here every day? Not only do we have to treat them but everyone they infect.

The "one tenth of 1%" getting free medical is wayyyyyyyyy under rated. In Texas alone illegals are costing us over 3.7 BILLION dollars a year in healthcare, education and incarceration. "Immigrant households now account for 26.1 percent of the nations uninsured" Senator John McCain and John Kyle introduced a bill to hit the taxpayers for $200 million for medical treatment of illegal aliens. That is no drop in the bucket. In 4 border states 77 hospitals are closing up shop or turning away American citizens because they are facing bankruptcy from the illegals using the facilities. Uncompensated healthcare in Arizona in one county cost them 30% of their annual budget. University Medical Center of Tucson $10 million in only the first quarter of last year. During the last 3 years Harris County (Houston) spent 330 million to treat an immunize illegal aliens. In California 1 in 5 Californians lack insurance yet the law requires hospitals to treat illegal aliens free. Florida amassed unpaid bills of 40.5 million last year. 13 billion a year is estimated being sent back to Mexico. Who's economy are they helping again??? Now are you telling me these dollar amounts spent on illegals wouldn't or couldn't help anyone who was born here? At least put a dent in our healthcare problem?

Not just people either are abusing the borders- US Drug Enforcement Admin states approximately 65% of all cocaine and most of the marijuana that enters this country is coming up through Mexico.

You seem to worry your vegetables might cost more on the cis site read the article " Illegal Workers Aren't Needed To Make Sure We Keep Eating Our Vegetables" or The High Cost For Cheap Labor or maybe the "Census Bureau: Over 100,000 Illegal Aliens from the Middle East.. Now that scares me!
I can give you facts and figures for Texas and other sites with statistics but this will get you started. I still say having an illegal pick my fruit isn't worth what I am really having to pay for it.

352 Oct-21   From: chellybrown1   To: grsb174
That is absolutely correct. I worked at a Giant Healthcare facility and illegal immigrants had taken over most of the support services jobs. Why is our government allowing so many illegal aliens to come here and live as if they have lived here all of their lives, without having to pay taxes, and eating up our welfare system causing us to pay higher taxes.
353 Oct-21   From: yosemite85   To: chellybrown1
If they worked for a Health Care facility, they paid taxes. That is unless the facility was violating state and federal law. I would hope that would not be the case. If this is the case throw the administrators in jail.
354 Oct-21   From: enoughguff   To: montyk68
What do you think should be done with known illegal immigrant terrorists like Luis Posada Carriles? Should he be extradited to face his accusers in court, or should he be given a pass, since he has been such a valuable asset to the CIA?
355 Oct-21   From: karen1dec   To: mebcrazymike
It would take a lot of time to find all of the illegals and once you start looking they will go deeper into hiding but that makes it more difficult for them to find work.

The borders need to be closed. If you want to read just how much the "cheap labor" is really costing you need to check out www.cis.org the Center for Immigration Studies. The amount it costs for free medical when our own citizens go without, the diseases they are bringing in with them, the cost of incarcerating the criminal faction and now I learned that illegals can apply for and get state funded loans to attend college and pay the state tuition fees instead of the out of state. The illegals are gaining rights than we have. Then to read that statistics show that over 100,000 illegals in this country are from the Middle East. Why are we allowing this?

We need to start somewhere and stop putting it off for the next guy to take care of.

The man that swears in blood and signs in blood he will close the borders and start shipping them home has my vote. I can't even understand why it costs so much to deport them. They come here in cars, by foot in the back of trucks. So why can't we put them on a BUS and take them back.? Simple.
356 Oct-21   From: karen1dec   To: delsol3851
Just some facts

Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 BILLION in costs on the federal government in 2002 and paid only $16 BILLION in taxes creating a the net fiscal deficit at the federal level of more than $10 BILLION in 2002. If amnesty is granted the for illegal aliens it is estimated that deficit will grow to nearly $29 BILLION
Center for Immigration Studies www.cis.org

If the current trend of illegal immigration continues we may add an additional 3 to 4 MILLION people to the ranks of the uninsured within the next 10 years.

Senators John McCain and John Kyle introduced a bill to hit the US Taxpayers for $200 BILLION for medical treatment of illegal aliens.

Texas alone spent more than $4.7 BILLION per year for healthcare, education and incarceration. Even after the illegal tax contribution the outlay still amounted to $3.7BILLION dollars per year. That means it cost me and every other legal Texas Citizen $725 a year to pay for someone esle to get free treatment I do not qualify for. On top of that I have to pay for my own medical insurance and prescriptions.

Illegals tax payments are only 1/4 of the average household.

The US Federal government spent over $5.8 BILLION in the past 3 years to incarcerate criminal aliens and convicted of a crime.

In 2003 state prisons housed about 74,000 criminal aliens. 80% of those were in just 5 states. Arizona, California, Florida, New York and Texas.

The cost of incarceration criminal illegal aliens in Texas amounts to $150 million a year not including law enforcement, local jail detentions and judicial expenditures or the monetary costs of the crimes that led to the incarceration
357 Oct-21   From: cheeky487   To: carldezur5000
maybe it's just me, but illegal means it's (whatever) not legal. if i drove a car without a license or shot someone with a gun, both of those actions are illegal and i could be held accountable for my actions. what's the difference with immigration?

as for people coming here to pursue a better life, i'm all for it. america has always been a melting pot of the wretched refuse from other countries. i believe it has made us the richer in character, as a result. what i don't like is to see is smaller communities insulating themselves so that the illegals never have to learn the language. that really stymies personal development. and people can argue all they want that we don't have a National Language designated for the US, but the last time i checked English was the Lingua Franca.
358 Oct-21   From: yosemite85   To: cheeky487
" Lingua Franca" is that a midwestern slang term??
359 Oct-21   From: cheeky487   To: yosemite85
lol, it just might be nowadays. but here's a definition for you.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_franca

Lingua franca

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Jump to: navigation, search

A lingua franca is any language widely used beyond its native speakers, primarily for international commerce but extending to other cultural exchanges, such as diplomacy. The origin of the term lingua franca is Italian (literally "Frankish language"), derived from the medieval Arab and Muslim use of "Franks" (ancient Germans) as a generic term for Europeans during the period of the Crusades.

Originally "lingua franca" referred to a mix of mostly Italian with a broad vocabulary drawn from Turkish, Persian, French, Greek and Arabic. This mixed language (pidgin, creole language) was used for communication throughout the medieval and early modern Middle East as a diplomatic language; the generic description "lingua franca" has since become common for any language used by speakers of different languages to communicate with one another.

In an important sense, the terms "lingua franca" and "diplomatic language" remain distinct; the former refers largely to spoken languages which find common use, while the latter is typically limited to common written systems which do not directly find use among the common public. A prime example is Akkadian, which (as shown in the Amarna letters,~1350 B.C.) was used for correspondence between Egypt and its Canaanite vassals, and neighboring kingdoms, as far away as Babylon. Akkadian, being one of the first "diplomatic languages", contained Sumerograms, from Sumer, the sumerogram being many hundreds of years older, from the beginning of written language. This diplomatic-level communication would, over time, serve language (hence cultural) transculturation, eventually developing the Greek and Roman writing systems, that we currently use today.

[edit]

Languages which have served as a lingua franca

During the Roman Empire and for the following millennium the lingua franca was Greek in the east and Latin in the west. The French language also served as lingua franca later on. French was the language of diplomacy in Europe from the 17th century until its very recent replacement by English, and as a result is still the working language of international institutions and is seen on documents ranging from passports to airmail letters. French was also the language used among the educated in cosmopolitain cities in North Africa such as Cairo, Egypt around the turn of the century until WWII. German served as a lingua franca in portions of Europe during the 19th and 20th centuries, especially in business, politics, science (physics), and sociology. English is the current lingua franca of Western international business and has also displaced French in diplomacy since World War II, a trend arguably ignited by the conduct of French- and respectively English-speaking nations during the war (the de facto status of lingua franca is usually "awarded" by the masses to the language of the most respected and influential nation(s) of the time), and certainly inf
...[Message truncated]

360 Oct-21   From: yosemite85   To: cheeky487
I know what it means, I was just kidding. Have a great one.
361 Oct-21   From: montyk68   To: karen1dec

I have read the link you provide regarding the Center for Immigration Studies and I have read a dozen othe links like that. I understand the arguments that are made about the financial impact. But that is only one part of a much bigger picture and the failure to see the bigger picture undermines much of the arguments that are made here by these groups. They fail to recognize or address the billions of dollars in tax and social security revenue that is gained. They fail to recognize the other sublime involvements in our economics. All of these sites scream that removing the illegal aliens will lower healthcare, education and crime related costs. That simply is just not supported by statistical analysis.

Yes they are part of the problem. Yes they are a negative draw on these resources. Remove them completely and I do not see how anything will change significantly in healthcare, education and criminal related expenses. I do see an immediate impact instead to the economy that will NOT provide more jobs as is falsely believed.

 

--- In Texas alone illegals are costing us over 3.7 BILLION dollars a year in healthcare, education and incarceration. ----

Rather than dispute how those figures were arrived at lets accept they are true. Read again the article. A loss of 206 billion dollars a year removing all illegals. Even though we acknowledg Texas is a larger state, lets assume that all states are the same. That would be roughly a 200 billion a year change. Yet a deficit still remains of six billion a year before you even factor in the economic impact on businesses. That number could easily be another 200 billion not to mention the additional costs involved that will be incurred by the public at large like the tripling of cost for produce at the grocery store. You are still dealing with negative numbers.

The fact is that despite the government being Democrat or Republican in the US, there appears to be a belief that the negatives are outweighed by the positives. That is something no one seems to want to hear or address. All I can conclude is that is the ONLY reason the situation could continue to exists. If the negatives out weighed the benefits the government would have stepped in to do something about it.

That is why I contend that while much of the posts here discuss the blatant visible wrongs, there is no discussion of the underlying issues that allow this situation to exist. They are all suggestions for a quick fix to treat the symptoms....eliminate the rash, not why the rash exists. And many of the suggested "fixes" are in my estimation going to make the rash far worse. Until the underlying conditions are addressed, simply focusing on the symptoms and removing the symptoms will solve nothing.

This problem of illegals has been going on for a couple of decades. I have been reading studies on the problem and its growth for some fifteen years now. Its not new. It has only lately been a focus that the public at large has started to respond to but it has been happening for some time. Its not going away with any miracle cures, quick fixes or rash decisions.

IT is a problem I totally agree. It has been a problem and grows. It is going to continue until a more intelligent solution is arrived at than the simplistic answers offered here, thus far. I do not pretend to know the solution or answers . I do know that the end result of removing all illegals today from the US will have an economic impact to all of us tommorow that is negative not positive, despite all the short sighted arguments that jobs and conditions will improve. I do not see how they could possibly improve, given the circumstances as they exist and the economics involved here, simply by removing all illegal workers / aliens.

362 Oct-21   From: montyk68   To: karen1dec
The figures that you cite are all persuasive argument and indicate a problem however they are all limited in scope. None of those studies take into consideration any other factors that translate into economical benefits which would offset these costs. The views only show half of the entire picture. Just as your example that "households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than 26.3 billion in cost on the federal government and paid on $16 billion in taxes creating a net fiscal deficit at the federal level of more than $10 billion dollars in 2002. Where are the figures factored in on the taxes from businesses based on earnings of the businesses as opposed to losses base on loss of earnings if businesses use more money for labor costs? What about the businesses that simply will not be able to pay those cost increases and remove their US base of operations entirely out of the US putting all their legal workers on unemployment at an additional tax drain. I agree the figures given show a deficit. But they only show ONE side of the picture. Why is that so hard to comprehend?
363 Oct-21   From: karen1dec   To: montyk68
Why is that so hard to comprehend?

As I stated we agree to disagree. The last question you asked is the same one I might ask of you. I have read hundreds of articles with facts and data and none from companies coming forward to say how important illegals are to our economy.

I live in a border state and we have been concerned and complaining about the illegals for years. Why won' t the government do anything? I don't believe it has anything to with our economics. I think it is such a touchy subject and any administration that tackles it will have to deal with organizations like the ACLU. It might end up being political suicide for any political party. They don't want to be the bad guy. The cold hearted President (party) that violates the rights of another human being.

We are hurting our country not helping it. It seems when someone says illegals they all think it is JUST the Mexican's. They are the majority but so many others are coming here and everyone seems to be more concerned about fruit pickers or business leaving this country because there are no Mexican's. This is a land where necessity seems to find a remedy. That will be another we would work with.

I personally think there are plenty of people that would take those jobs. And yes the companies would have to pay a little better and give benefits. If not well-all the lawn companies can move out of the country. Let the boys mow the grass. Let college students (who have a very difficult time finding summer or part time work here) take the construction work and the woman trying to feed her kids wait tables. There are very few major companies that employ illegals. ANY company that does any work for the government can lose their vendors status if they (we) hire illegals so I really think the government is a bit concerned about them too. They hired a few at a nuclear plant and fired them when they realized they weren't legal. So I guess they will move that out of the country too. Fort Bragg hired a couple of men from Pakistan that had false papers. Fired them. I don't see Fort Bragg leaving. SO the logic that ALLLLL these companies will leave won't wash. We buy most of our clothing from other countries now and I don't see a change there. Construction owners will only pocket 25,000 out of ever 50,000 they make.

What I do see is a feeling of being safer and saving money state wide and nationwide after all is said and done. Yes it will cost us to send them all back unless we change our deportation. If they are illegal we put them on a bus or a plane and send them back. Now we have to "detain" them while we research whether they have committed a crime. Then we have to transfer them to another facility and have them examined and oh yes if they had a dreaded disease - we don't send them back. We hospitalize them until they are cured or dead.

So you can't convince me it will hurt more than help and I can't convince you it will help more than hurt. I'd say it's a draw.

 

364 Oct-21   From: montyk68   To: karen1dec
So you can't convince me it will hurt more than help and I can't convince you it will help more than hurt. I'd say it's a draw.

 

I accept that. Just one last question.

 Why do you think that no matter who is in power, Democrat or Republican, if the bottom line figure is truly a negative number, why does no administration do something effective to alter the reality that the number of illegals increases instead of decreases? Why does no government stop it if there are no benefits?

Im not being faceitious. Im trying to understand what you think is the cause and why it does not get fixed? I have given my reasons why I do not think the problem is getting fixed and I would like to hear other ideas.

365 Oct-22   From: karen1dec   To: montyk68
Why does no government stop it if there are no benefits?

I've given this question a lot of thought. This may be a little far fetched but here goes. It is political . Mexico borders our country and their economy is the one that benefits from the illegals and from the drug dealing. Their sick come here and we treat them. Our money goes their and we lose tax money and it doesn't boost our economy.

If we close the borders we make an enemy. An enemy that is a river or a line in the sand away from American soil. How easy it would be for Al Quida (sp) to infiltrate and convince Mexico that it is to their benefit to become an ally? Or even the gangs, guerrillas and drug lords of Columbia? El Salvador? Or any other country that wanted to get this close to us. Mexico has no real army. How easy would it be to just overthrow that government? As it stands now other countries know the United States would be there to defend them because we would be defending ourselves too. If they can get that close they have an airport to land enemy planes, a place to stage weapons and armed forces to use against us. We could be the next Palestine. In this case it is to our benefit to keep Mexico a friendly ally and I think the government sees that and uses the cheap labor as an excuse.

I still say the illegals need to be routed out and sent back to so that we may get possible or potential terrorists out of here. I would agree with a "guest worker" plan. It would have to be controlled. Fingerprints of everyone that crosses the borders to work. No one that has committed a crime there or here allowed to cross. You commit a crime here, break a law - you go back and you can't cross again. They have to have immunizations to protect us from disease. Maybe something that tells us they are healthy so our healthcare won't take such a big hit. If nothing else build a hospital on the Mexican side and that's where the sick go and let them treat their own and absorb some medical costs. No babies of a "guest worker" automatically becomes a citizen. Maybe have them check in on a regular basis to insure they don't fade into the woodwork and get lost in the system. They pay taxes. Companies that pay those slave wages would have to obey the laws too and up the pay to at least minimum and carry some kind of workers comp insurance on them if nothing else. Maybe even a certain number per year allowed in. Maybe a lottery. Maybe a rotation. Something that would be fair for all because the demand to work here would be tremendous and without control we would be overrun. Mexico's economy would benefit, the people would benefit and our border might be a bit safer.

I don't have all the answers but I do think we need to do something . It has gotten out of control.

366 Oct-22   From: ilikemoney   To: karen1dec
I am also of Indian Heritage. "Quote from President Bush" Freedom should have it's Limits. I find this quote to be most profound and dangerous of any leader of America.

My question is exactly who does Bush think should have more freedom than the others in America. While 70 percent of taxes are produced by American Taxpayers, Corporate America appears to be the only group that gets Protectve legisslation or protection period while individual American Rights are eroded through Anti Terrorist and Child Protective Laws. I am frablky tired of the Republican produced scare tactics.

Regarding Freedom: That is something that we will never see again in our life time. I rememebr wehn our government complained that Russia only had 5 percent of the population governing and regulating 95 percent. I believe the same could be said for America.

Regarding Mexicans being a big problem: Wasn't NAFTA supposed to address this back in 1992 when the Eu was beginning to form so that we could further protect ourselves and our economy from being eroded . Wouldn't it make more sense to strenghten Mexico's economy than to force Mexico to remain a 3rd world Nation?

To be blunt I've though about swimming the Rio Grande to get away from our own oppressive government. Unfortunately Mexico has a policy of throwing Americans back the the U.S. upon request. LOL I visited Mexico about a year ago and found it very refreshing to see what our county was 50 years ago. A people and a society responsible for themselves and their individual actions.

 

 

 

367 Oct-22   From: ilikemoney   To: jcasimir1
Ok, I'll try to keep the english North American Standard since none of us in America really speak English.

I believe the real problem is a Republican Political Agenda that is aimed more at gut wrench scare tactics based on bare faced lies and half truths. I also believe that there isn't a Democrat with enough Balls out there to stand up and fight these injustices and we the American People are left to suffer

I find it hard to believe that our current leadership who were born in the 60's era who spake of Freedom, Free Love, Chanted Anti Establishment Slogans, Burned Their Bra's, Either Listened to Acid Rock or were dropping Acid are now our leaders who tell us it was ok for them but bad for the younger generation.

What I find most hard to swallow is the younger generations attitude that yu should question anyone who doesn't agree with our leadership rather than question our leaders.

I've had several people to accuse me of being angry in my postings. It is not anger that I want to express but downright confusion.

Would someone please tell me when we the American people stopped fighting for our Constitutional Rights and Freedoms and decided to settle for whatever the Government decided that we should have?

 

 

368 Oct-22   From: montyk68   To: karen1dec
I don't have all the answers but I do think we need to do something . It has gotten out of control.

I agree its out of control and I also do not have the answers but I think in your own statements that you recognize some of the factors below the surface are based in economics and politics that reach beyond any quick or simple fix that we just remove them all immediately.

369 Oct-22   From: ilikemoney   To: jcasimir1
I agree that we should all be multilingual but language has been the downfall of more than one government.

Russia and China suffer communications problems to this day making it all but immpossible for one person to communicate their needs to the other. If we don't quickly get a handle on the language problem in America we will no doubt suffer the same consequences.

If America can be so involved in One World Government then why doesent it make sense to insure that we can all communicate in the same language?

370 Oct-22   From: texcon8   To: Dayhawk Kim
How do you think the U.S. should approach illegal immigration?>>>>

For once I think that someone had a geat idea.

If you broke our laws to get here, you should have to leave!

I'm not against immigration at all. My great great grandparents were immigrants. They came here legally, learned the language, the history and customs of this country and became citizens. That's how it's suppose to be done. Anything else is unacceptable. I say kick them out and make them do it right.

371 Oct-22   From: larr949   To: taliaNkheldar
My ancestors accepted them, that why your in the mess your in!
372 Oct-22   From: larr949   To: karen1dec
Only if your registered.
373 Oct-23   From: taliaNkheldar   To: larr949
due to my ancestors. i barely knew where we came from. they, as soon as they came here. wouldn't tell their kids anything about the Old Country. i had to find out by listening to my aunts and uncles when they talked about what they found and on what they found it on. like when my paternal grandpa became a citizen of this country. the place of where he was born was on that paper. i still don't know where in germany, my paternal grandma was born. since they met here in minnesota. as for my maternal side. i don't know any of that. that is how fully they embraced being americans. by not letting their kids know the cities that they came from for the various countries they were born in.

 

374 Oct-23   From: cheeky487   To: yosemite85
You too.
375 Oct-24   From: kell4276   To: C'estmoi
thanks for the clairfication! K
376 Oct-26   From: pseudolous49   To: ALL
There is a way to handle the problem in the absence of fraud of course, require everyone who is trying to obtain services from the government to provide a copy of their birth certificate and the birth certificate of either or both parents, or a certificate of adoption and the birth certificates of either or both adoptive parents, or of course, naturalization papers as part of their required information to obtain State or Federal benefits.
377 Oct-26   From: Frank   To: pseudolous49
>> There is a way to handle the problem in the absence of fraud... <

That's a good idea, but I'm sure you realize that any attempt to do something like this would be immediately described as inhumane or racist, and legal proceedings would be immediately filed to halt such a practice (probably by the ACLU).

378 Oct-26   From: montyk68   To: pseudolous49
Man I can hear the ACLU screaming from here chomping at the bits to go into court after that idea.

 

Another good idea would be to tattoo everyones social security number on their arm, how do you feel about that idea? That would solve the problem would it not?

379 Oct-27   From: phlashlite   To: Dayhawk Kim
It's about time!!! Doesn't "illegal" mean anything anymore?!?
380 Oct-27   From: phlashlite   To: delsol3851
>FOR INSTANCE EVERY ILLEGAL WORKING IN THE

U.S PAYS TAXES THOSE TAXES THAT ARE BEING TAKEN OUT ALL GO FOR US FUNDS SOCIAL SECURTY,

EDUCATION,WELFARE ETC.<

This is a joke, right?!? Tell me you're not serious about this statement. If you are, you should just fold up your tent and call it quits. That statement is ludicrous. Immigrants have a great history of contributions to this nation. The difference is their status... LEGAL! In the subject under discussion ILLEGAL should mean something. Nowadays people are trying to play "politically correct" with ILLEGALS by calling them "undocumented aliens". That stinks so bad that holding my nose doesn't even help! P-U!

381 Oct-27   From: pseudolous49   To: montyk68
No guys the ACLU could not claim discrimination because the rule would applyy to everyone. The essence of "discrimination" is what legally is called invideous discrimination- in other words singling out a person or a group of persons without just cause or reason.- because of race, color, nationality, or religion or any other factor which does not make a logical reason. If the requirement was UNIVERSAL there is no discrimination.
382 Oct-27   From: Frank   To: pseudolous49
>> No guys the ACLU could not claim discrimination because the rule would applyy to everyone <<

That's logical, but what has that got to do with the ACLU? They have a reputation for attacking things they don't like, regardless of "minor" details.
383   From: ALL   To: ALL
384 Oct-27   From: cluelost   To: JuAnMoCeRvEzA
finally ! a mes'can who speaks some truth.
385 Oct-28   From: montyk68   To: ALL

In case you did not hear the NPR story last week or read about the situation in New Orleans, companies have been offering jobs at $17 to $22 an hour to help with the clean up. Those getting $22 an hour are emptying and cleaning refridgerators at the dump. Every company has complained that they could not get workers. SO they have been hiring illegals and now everyones upset. Not with the fact that Americans refused to take the jobs, but with the hiring of illegals. Interesting. All the whining that they take jobs from US citizens. Here is clearly another example, Americans will not even do the work for handsome sums of money, let alone minimum wage pay.

One worker who is American of Mexican descent had his own company two states away. He left to come to New Orleans to work and is making $1,000 a day sometimes $1,500 a day. He tried to hire a crew of Americans to bring with him and no one would take the job at $18 an hour. He figured he would hire people when he got to New Orleans. But there are no Americans that are willing to live in tents out side without plumbing and work 12 hour days so he too is hiring illegal workers.

386   From: ALL   To: ALL
387 Oct-28   From: lophat05   To: montyk68
<<<about the situation in New Orleans, companies been offering jobs at $l7 to $22 to help with the cleanup.........Every company has complained that they could not get workers.....Americans will not even do the work for handsome sums of money, let alone minimum wage pay.>>>>

Wait, wait, just a minute. Now how about all the poor blacks (& some whites) that we saw constantly day in, and day out on television during & after the disaster .......the people whom America reportedly ignored, and we were all made to feel guilty for? They did not grab up those jobs enmasse?

388 Oct-28   From: montyk68   To: lophat05
the people whom America reportedly ignored, and we were all made to feel guilty for? They did not grab up those jobs enmasse?

 

No they sure did not. Which poses some valid questions about why? WHy is it not those people from New Orleans that are being offered the opportunity to rebuild their city, or why are they not taking these excellentlly paid jobs?

389 Oct-28   From: lophat05   To: montyk68
<<......those people from New Orleans............why they are not taking these exellently paid jobs...>>>

The earlier post stated that the employers cleaning up New Orleans couldn't find enough workers, and therefore had to rely on illegals, resulting in an uproar over the hiring of illegals. This could be an interesting discussion, after the "guilt trip" over the poor that we all were put on, not only from TV commentators, but some of the poor themselves. When given the opportunity to work, and earn some good money, no one shows up after all the yelling on TV screens. Could this be just the welfare mentality, or was the earlier post simply misquoted? Who the heck wants to be poor!

 

390 Oct-28   From: cluelost   To: JuAnMoCeRvEzA
cholo? .................f*%# u !!!
391   From: ALL   To: ALL
392 Oct-29   From: montyk68   To: lophat05
I believe those on the welfar rolls that were capable of work should have been required to work in New Orleans on the clean up. Their failure to take the jobs severely weakens any of their arguments about mistreatment. Most workers there are making $300 to $500 a day.

The fact also weakens the argument of those who wish to kick out all illegals for taking jobs that Americans want. Where indeed were all the Americans on unemployment crying about illegal workers taking their jobs?

393 Oct-29   From: pacadon11   To: JuAnMoCeRvEzA
Shhhhh, Estoy Ocupada !!!
Que Pasa, Cholos ?

Sorryo, nolo speako the spico

394 Oct-29   From: lophat05   To: montyk68
<<I believe those on the welfare rolls that were capable of work should have been required to work in New Orleans on the cleanup.....................Most workers there are making $300 to $500 a day>>>

This coffee house discussion regarding the poor under welfare not accepting work in New Orleans despite the nice wages brought out some interesting reasons. Seems like under the U.S. welfare system, if one earns income, benefits are reduced, which includes housing allowance, dental, medical, eye care, child care, subsidised school breakfasts & lunches, no fees for medications, and including the monthly checks the family receives. One stands the chance of losing all, should they earn "too much," said on person. Maybe it's the system instead, that needs to be fixed. In the meantime, those "illegal immigrants" doing the work are earning the $300-500 each day, even without the benefits welfare people get, and probably laughing all the way to the post office, where they're sending the monies to Mexico!

395 Oct-29   From: montyk68   To: lophat05
-------Seems like under the U.S. welfare system, if one earns income, benefits are reduced, which includes housing allowance, dental, medical, eye care, child care, subsidised school breakfasts & lunches, no fees for medications, and including the monthly checks the family receives. One stands the chance of losing all, should they earn "too much," said on person.--------


Sorry but that argument doesnt fly with me. So they are cut off completely from welfare. So what. They are earning ten times or twenty times what welfare would have paid them. They are earing in a a months time what they would have made in a year on welfare.

To my way of thinking instead of the notion here " one stands a chance of losing all" they instead have a chance of gaining everything including independence from the welfare system. What could possibly be wrong about that?

396 Oct-29   From: lophat05   To: montyk68
<<.............they instead have a chance of gaining independence from the welfare system. What could possibly be wrong with that?>>>>>

I agree, and perhaps there are ones who sincerely want to be independent of welfare, but try to convince the many, even with the high pay, as the case in New Orleans, where they can't get enough workers. It would be like trying to convince smokers to quit, even if it would make them healthier. The system, as our talk group discussed, needs fixing, as the welfare system when considering all the benefits from health, medical, housing, etc, seems generous. Some recipients, I understand, live in nicer homes than many under the Section 8 housing allowance, unlike the public housing apartments that we saw on TV. There really should not be any problems with poverty in this rich country!

397   From: ALL   To: ALL
398 Oct-30   From: montyk68   To: lophat05
There should not be poverty in this nation but the welfare system is partly to blame. The system does little to provide any incentive to get free of the paltry sum of meager subsitence. It self perpetuates the problem instead of providing them a stepping stone out of the problem

If all those who had been evacuated from New Orleans that were on Welfare rolls had been moved to a closed army base (s) they could have been provided immediate work in the library, px, commisary, theater, recreation halls, etc. All able bodied could have received training in electrical, plumbing and construction and trained in jobs to return and hep rebuild New Orleans at decent wages with future employment prospects.

Instead they will return to new orleans in the same shape as a draw on the economy.

The fact that no americans will take the jobs in new orleans at very hi wages weakens any arguments that illegals are taking jobs that americans would do. Where are all the unemployed that cannot find work? Why are they not there?

399 Oct-30   From: lophat05   To: montyk68
<<Where are all the unemployed that cannot find work? Why are they not there (New Orleans)?>>>

If there are no other alternatives to cleaning up New Orleans than hiring illegals as Americans will not stoop to that type work, then more power to those who want the job. However, it shouldn't mean an open-door policy to allow illegals to overrun the borders because of such isolated work examples. On the other hand, I feel people in the U.S. should not be denied services, or benefits of this rich country whether they are illegal, or citizens, and we certainly do have many U.S. citizens who do live below the poverty line.

What's the solution to the illegal immigration problem - specifically Mexican? Considering the vast expanse of fertile lands in Mexico, the oil resources, extensive sandy beach coastlines, eager & creative workforce, much natural resources, beautiful culture & peoples................why not include Mexico into our folds, make her part of the U.S! Why not? Too far fetched? Can the history of the U.S. reveal something which we have only taken for granted, and no longer question? 

 

400 Nov-1   From: pacadon11   To: jcasimir1
I think that the government isn't going to do any thing about illegal aliens until one of them detonates a small nuke in or near D.C.,or some other act of terrorism

Personally, I think we should put nuclear facilites along the border, spray the dusty feet with radioactive waste when they sneak across, and then we can find them at night, because they will all be glowing in the dark.

Yep, works for me.

401 Nov-1   From: jcasimir1   To: pacadon11
aha. the chernobyl defense. the chicken kiev entree.

just gotta watch out when those glowing prints track up to oklahoma.

kind regards,

casimir

402 Nov-4   From: kev2step   To: ritexcorp
If all of the of illegals were conservitive republicians the media would be airing this story every hour.Bush regime Bush mafia.
403 Nov-10   From: terrytwright   To: lophat05
Here's a sure fire way to get them off the welfare system http://fathersmanifesto.com/pollblacks.htm
404 Nov-18   From: terrytwright   To: ALL
To date, 89% agree. That's a landslide victory http://blackexile.com
405 Nov-21   From: terrytwright   To: lophat05
<<<If there are no other alternatives to cleaning up New Orleans than hiring illegals as Americans will not stoop to that type work, then more power to those who want the job. However, it shouldn't mean an open-door policy to allow illegals to overrun the borders because of such isolated work examples. On the other hand, I feel people in the U.S. should not be denied services, or benefits of this rich country whether they are illegal, or citizens, and we certainly do have many U.S. citizens who do live below the poverty line.>>>

After being a creditor nation for several centuries, "this rich country" is now the biggest debtor nation in human history, with an OFFICIAL $18 trillion in debt and no Personal Savings (and the only industrialized nation in the world, including the other 4 debtor nations, with a negative Personal Savings rate).

Part of the problem is that people like you seem to think that just because Chinese soldiers haven't raped your wife yet that all is ok. Being broke ain't ok, and soon enough the Chinese soldier will have enough of our dollars that he can BUY your wife.

"Americans will not stoop to that type of work" because ILLEGAL aliens took those jobs from them, made themselves so dangerous and undesirable that no self-repsecting White wants to be around this criminal class who the Mexican government sent here instead of Mexican prisons, and by their mere presence degraded the image of jobs that used to be attractive to the point that not even Mexicans want the job.

We don't owe Mexicans a blasted thing. We certainly don't owe them "services, or benefits" when providing them denies services and benefits to the WHITES who built and paid for it in the first place, when we're already BROKE, and when providing them contributes to their own criminality. Ditto for blacks http://exileblacks.com

Terry

406 Nov-26   From: lophat05   To: terrytwright
<<Part of the problem is that people like you seem to think that since Chinese soldiers haven't raped your wife yet that all is ok. Being broke ain't ok..............we don't owe Mexicans a blasted thing.............Ditto for blacks.>>>

Don't know where you're coming in from, Terry, but #l, I think your view of the Chinese is strictly from propaganda, and I suspect that a lot of your personal stuff is made in China, and you have, at one time or other, shopped at a WalMart. I visited China, and can tell you that it was safer in Beijing at nite, than N.Y. or S.F. It has been stated that China with over 1.4 billion, does not even have a fourth of the crime numbers as the U.S. #2, let's give the Mexicans, and Blacks some credit for the building of the great USA, and not only for the Whites " who built and paid for it in the first place." Besides, their kids are being so professionally trained, that one of them might someday treat you for some serious illness. Plus wouldn't it be great to be treated by a beautiful nurse resembling Halle Berry for a change?

407 Nov-26   From: terrytwright   To: lophat05
 

<<<Don't know where you're coming in from, Terry, but #l, I think your view of the Chinese is strictly from propaganda, and I suspect that a lot of your personal stuff is made in China, and you have, at one time or other, shopped at a WalMart. I visited China, and can tell you that it was safer in Beijing at nite, than N.Y. or S.F. It has been stated that China with over 1.4 billion, does not even have a fourth of the crime numbers as the U.S. #2, let's give the Mexicans, and Blacks some credit for the building of the great USA, and not only for the Whites " who built and paid for it in the first place." Besides, their kids are being so professionally trained, that one of them might someday treat you for some serious illness. Plus wouldn't it be great to be treated by a beautiful nurse resembling Halle Berry for a change?>>>

Having been mugged twice in our nation's "capitol", but never in Asia, Europe, nor Russia where I've travelled extensively (including Beijing), I agree wholeheartedly with you about the muchlower crime rates there, though you're a bit off on your estimate of how much less dangerous it is. With China's homicide rate less than 1 per 100,000 population, in 1993 you were 80 TIMES more likely to be murdered in DC than in China:

http://fathersmanifesto.net/japus.htm

 

"give the Mexicans, and Blacks some credit for the building of the great USA"

You give them credit, because I'm not going to. Blacks in the US today cost us $850 BILLION more in social transfer payments EACH YEAR than they contribute to GDP, and Mexicans another $230 billion, and this is almost three times the economic output of the entire Continent of Africa (with 800 million blacks). At the height of slavery, there were only 400,000 black slaves, and it's doubtful if they were ever as productive as their cousins in Africa who currently earn a whopping $50 per month. With slaves probably being half as productive, the most these slaves produced in a century was ($25 x 12 mos/year x 400,000 slaves x 100 years) = $12 billion.

They get more than that in the first week of the year: $850 billion / 52 weeks/year = $16.3 billion per week.

http://fathersmanifesto.net/blackcosts.htm

Terry

 

 

 

ps--Here's a great insight into how the Chinese view our "human rights record":

http://english.people.com.cn/200304/03/eng20030403_114521.shtml

408 Nov-27   From: poohlvtggr   To: terrytwright
"Americans will not stoop to that type of work" because ILLEGAL aliens took those jobs from them, made themselves so dangerous and undesirable that no self-repsecting White wants to be around this criminal class who the Mexican government sent here instead of Mexican prisons, and by their mere presence degraded the image of jobs that used to be attractive to the point that not even Mexicans want the job.

We don't owe Mexicans a blasted thing. We certainly don't owe them "services, or benefits" when providing them denies services and benefits to the WHITES who built and paid for it in the first place, when we're already BROKE, and when providing them contributes to their own criminality

HERE! HERE!!

Couldn't agree with you more if I had written it myself!

409 Nov-27   From: poohlvtggr   To: Pegifer1
<<We are a country of immigrants who came to this country to be a part of this country. They learned our language and became citizens. Not so with Mexico.

Since 9/11, it doesn't make any sense at all to keep ILLEGAL (key word) aliens here. I know that now we are supposed to call them "undocumented workers" but they are still ILLEGAL.>>

As I scrolled back to read the beginning of this blog, I decided to respond to yours just because I can't stand to read through all the rest - I skipped to the end! I can't stand to read it because as you said, the word ILLEGAL is the key here. The fact that people actually try to write in here and argue that this illegal activity should be condoned is something I will never understand. Thank God they are in the minority. Illegal in anything else and there is no leeway, so why are we hedging on this? I refuse to stoop to calling people who are ILLEGALLY entering our country, ILLEGALLY working here, UNCONSCIONABLY using our health benefits and services, and ILLEGALLY hiding and staying here, "undocumented workers". What a JOKE! They are CRIMINALS - ILLEGALLY HERE - It does not take a rocket-scientist to see this, yet our government wants to BRAINWASH us little by little into using terms like "undocumented workers" and making us believe there is something wrong with anyone who thinks these people should be deported. PLEASE - how stupid do they think we are? Well, I guess pretty stupid because we still have a small percentage of the public who has swallowed this hogwash.

I am sorry that Mexico is such a horrendous place to live, but so are many other places - but letting them in here is just going to turn our country into a shabby place to live, as it has already done in many of the small border towns and parts of California, Texas and Arizona. We are all a part of this country, so letting the states that are on the border handle this crisis is unfair! We also have an armed Mexican mafia rising up and spreading throughout our country that many sleeping Americans don't see or don't want to know about. That's right, bury the head in the sand until it is a real problem, then blame everybody else for letting it happen. 

 START FINING AND IMPRISONING THOSE IN THE COMPANIES THAT ARE HIRING THESE PEOPLE ILLEGALLY!!!! Perhaps shipping them out to a Mexican prison would help them to see that hiring illegals is, well. . . ..ILLEGAL!!!

410 Nov-27   From: rwrnae   To: Dayhawk Kim
How do you think the U.S. should approach illegal immigration?

Shoot 'em as they cross the border.
411 Nov-27   From: JAMMER   To: rwrnae
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