America's Moral Bankruptcy
The Simple Question
Should we thus assume that you demand that existing adultery laws be upheld? Does this mean that you agree that Clinton should be removed for adultery? If you don't condone adultery, what other choice is there? If you don't condone adultery, what is the argument all about? It seems that the very thing that sent you off on a tizzy was the mere suggestion that existing laws be upheld, or that our President be held accountable to the very same laws he holds his underlings accountable to?
The Complex Answers
Charlee823@aol.com I'm sorry everyone, I can not celebrate the loss of anyone's freedom of speech, whether deserved or not. If everyone would have ignored the guy and stopped baiting him on, he would not have become so disruptive and Bill would not have had to take the actions he did. Here we are, a group of people, who say we are concerned about our constitution and freedom but are elated when someone else's is taken away. You should all be ashamed of yourself. Just, Charlee
firstname.lastname@example.org Well said. I would add in the Nazi type tactics (used so often by RP cultists), such as researching this guy John and offering a money reward. So much for freedom of the internet. In working for freedom of the internet here and in China, I was sickened by this. They have done some these things to me, but now I do my fighting against these folks in court (and always win). Ron
Proposal For A Money Award To Shut Up The Messenger: Melanie Carne email@example.com Just for the record, all info regarding Mr. Knight, up to and including his name address and phone number were available on his own web site which he touted ad nauseum. At first I did not believe that the info there was factual and through reading reams of material in regards to his agenda was able to determine that in fact he was so gradiose as to not be able to stand not having his personal info included. Should he have wished more privacy he would not have made the info available and repeatedly invited everyone to view it. As for the rest of the broken record ron, blah blah blah....... If you close your eyes I won't be able to see you either!! Melanie
Not Loss Of Free Speech, Only "Right To Associate": firstname.lastname@example.org He didn't lose his freedom of speech. He abused his right to associate. Odell.........
Only "Victims" Deserve Free Speech: Puuuulllllllleeeeeeeezzz!!!! So, now he is just another poor abused VICTIM. That kind of thinking is what makes Clinton's number stay up in the range of +75! Face it ... in real life, you get back what you give. John D
Supporting Existing Laws Is Equivalent To Crying "Fire" in Crowded Theater: ABINC@aol.com Oh, c'mon. Freedom of speech never justifies falsely crying "FIRE" in a crowded theater. THAT'S what this person -- John Knight, or whatever -- was doing, and he deserves to have his forum removed. "WE" are a society, and we have rules too. -- Jay L. Stern
Free Speech Does Not Apply If Speech Does Not Add Anything: "David W. Hamlin" email@example.com We are concerned about our constitution because it is supposed to protect us from our government. One of the things that goes with free speech is the freedom to not listen. This thread, from the repsonses I have seen, is happy to see John moved off the list. His freedom to speak was not taken away. His freedom to participate in this forum is predicated on respect for the rules under which the forum has been organized. When he repeatedly failed to observe those rules, Bill took the only reasonable action he could by removing John from the list. Why should I have to construct an e-mail filter to send everything from him into my trash bin? John was not adding anything to the discourse, so his removal from the list will be little noticed nor, by most, regreted. I am sure he is on many other lists, and if you are interested in his ravings you can find them there. I would ask you to remember that the protections for the individual rights of the soverign citizen found in the US Constitution, including the Bill of Rights, limits how the government may impose restrictions on citizens - not on how citizens relate to each other. You do not have the right to stand on my porch step and harangue me. The government cannot tell me I cannot speak my mind in public. -David
"Broken-record Speech Does Not Deserve Free Speech: firstname.lastname@example.org Agreed we should plead guilty to aiding and abetting. However, LONG after he had said everything he seemed capable of saying, he was still interfering with our freedom of speech with his broken-record activity (which should not be counted as "speech"). email@example.com http://www.baka.com/webpages3/davek
Asking If Someone Condones Adultery Is Tantamount To Calling Them A Whore: jim welch firstname.lastname@example.org I am unabashedly happy to see him go. I do not care for, do not enjoy being associated with, relish being in the company of, nor will I tolerate rude behavior in a man who would degrade a woman to the degree of inferring she is immoral, whorish, an adultress, or a supporter of adultery. In my younger days I've actually visited houses of ill repute out of the country, and even there I had better manners than to exhibit behavior like this thumper did - "Destiny's first messenger" - OR NOT!! Each and every lady on this reflector deserves better treatment than he displayed. Damn glad to see him go. Jim Welch This is a formal demand that you, or anyone that may forward e-mail on behalf of each and every e-mail address this is being sent to, to CEASE AND DESIST FROM SENDING ANY E-MAIL TO MY ADDRESS. FAILURE TO DO SO WILL BE REGARDED AS HARRASSMENT AND I WILL EXERCISE WHATEVER LEGAL AND LAWFUL REMIDIES THAT MAY BE AVAILABLE. JIM WELCH
"Katalyst" email@example.com Bill, That's it Bill. You are officially my hero for today. Who needs football? Hugs Katheryn
Free Speech Is Negated By "Freedom Not To Listen": Beverly Kennedy firstname.lastname@example.org The action Bill took was in no way infringing on Mr. Knight's, or anyone else's, freedom to speak IMO. He's still able to speak, and as often as he wants. Does the freedom to speak also include the freedom not to listen? The way I see it, the rest of us were having our right to not be "forced to listen" to one thing being promoted as the cure-all for every social ill in this country. Geez, haven't all of us already heard everything he had to say? I don't need to hear his opinion of the sole cause and the singular cure for all this country's ills any more. No matter what subject was under discussion, his "speech" was always the same - I already know his opinion. Bev
Jesus Revoked The Ten Commandments: In reply to "In our law Moses commanded that [adulteresses] must be stoned to death, John 8:5, June", Rev. COAL, YnrChyldzWyld email@example.com replied: "You judge according to the flesh, I judge no one..."-- Jesus to the Pharisees, John 8:15. The Bible, both Old and New Testaments, deal more kindly with harlots than YOU do..."
Support Of Adultery Laws Is Evidence of A Sick Man: I doubt if anyone would deny that this man is sick and needs treatment. I was taught that it was bad manners to make fun of people with disabilities. And if I'm not interested in that cause, I delete the message just like I deleted John Knight's messages.-JC
Adultery Laws Are "Not My Problem": David Repko firstname.lastname@example.org HE would! HE did! That was a part of the problem. He insisted on bringing that problem to a group of people unwilling to accept that part of the problem as their own. Nobody ejected him because of his problem, but because he insisted on dumping it on everyone else. [Perhaps the Constitution is in need of another amendment, although actually, I think it was on that original slate/tablet that Moses broke, in anger: "Thou shalt not dump thy problems on thy neighbor."]. I, for one, do not take aim at you for what you say. I agree that there should be a discussion on the subject of how people who scoff at the rules should be dealt with. I further stipulate that this e-post is MY personal contribution to the discussion, and my opinion is that Bill Selmeier continue to do in the future exactly as he has done in the case of Mr. Knight. I further agree that Bill Selmeier should consider all the remarks he has received thus far, and advise us of his [self-amendable] decision at some appropriate time in the future. In conclusion, I would like to express my final, official feelings in the matter of the deletion of Mr. Knight from this listserver. YIPPPEEEE! David Repko-DJR
How Do We avoid Killing The Messenger?: Charlee823@aol.com The reason for my comment was an attempt to develop a procedure to handle this type of situtation in the future so Bill does not have to take the steps he did. I think it's important that we understand that these types can not be argued with. It is like arguing with your children...it doesn't work! It is a waste of our time and only causes hard feelings within the group. There will be more of these fanatics that will find us. It is how we deal with them in the future that disturbs me. Now if you want to contribute to that discussion in a mature manner, please speak up but don't waste my time or yours trying to kill the messenger. Just, Charlee
The Reform Part Became A Party Of Exclusion: "William DREU" email@example.com Add my name to the group opposing the removal of John Knight from the list.Bill Selmier may be justified in removal, but I hope it isn't because "by popular demand." Those offended could easily hit the delete key. I trust those of you who wanted Knight removed don't belong to the Reform Party. I say that because there are too many trying to develop the party into a party of exclusion. When I say too many, it may be only 5 or 10 but that is too many. William Dreu
Creates A World Without Integrity: Jack Perrine Jack@minerva.com But. getting back to the Chinese Curse....those who wished him gone instead of trying to make use of the message he brought....have him gone.....but the curse said nothing about NOT replacing him with something much worse....how that will manifest I have no idea....at present. But, I think his message was the appropriate message for this point in time and if Destiny's first messenger is refused you can be well assured that the second...third....nth will each be less pleasant until the message is properly understood. A world without HONESTY / INTEGRITYwill be destroyed. Jack
This Is Loss Of Free Speech: John DeLasaux firstname.lastname@example.org wrote: "I'm sorry everyone, I can not celebrate the loss of anyone's freedom of speech, whether deserved or not."