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Gay Boy Scout Leader Charged

News/Current Events Breaking News News Keywords: GAY BOY SCOUTS
Source: Associated Press
Published: July 8, 2001 Author: AP
Posted on 07/08/2001 16:54:58 PDT by truthsetsfree

Scout Molestation Case Opening

By Adam Gorlick

Associated Press Writer

Sunday, July 8, 2001; 3:45 PM

NORTHAMPTON, Mass. –– Many people considered Christopher Reardon to be truly trustworthy, with a resume that included youth minister, Boy Scout leader, YMCA swim coach.

Within days, the police investigation blossomed into what prosecutors say is the state's largest ever child-molestation case. Reardon, 29, has pleaded innocent to 130 charges – including rape, molestation and disseminating pornography – involving 29 boys.

Jury selection for his trial was scheduled to begin Monday in Northampton, where the trial was moved out of concern he wouldn't get an impartial jury close to home.

A source close to the investigation, however, told The Associated Press Sunday that Reardon is expected to avoid the trial by pleading guilty to most of the charges against him. Under the terms of the deal, he would face life in prison, according to the source, who said a judge will decide if the sentence will be reduced. The plea bargain was offered to save the children from going through a long trial, the source said.

Essex District Attorney Kevin Burke refused to comment, saying he couldn't confirm the report for ethical reasons. Calls to Reardon's lawyer Sunday were not immediately returned.

People in Middleton, about 20 miles north of Boston, say their community won't heal unless Reardon is convicted and put away for life.

"The whole town can't wait to get this over with so we can move on," said Susan Santa Barbara, a third-grade teacher who taught catechism classes with Reardon at St. Agnes Church. "A lot of people are thinking why we even need a trial. We know he's guilty, so let's just put him away."

Police say he admitted molesting some of the children and using pornography to lure the boys.

According to court records, police confiscated at least two dozen pornographic videos, photographs of nude children, inflatable dolls and sex toys from Reardon's home and church office. The documents also say they found a videotape of Reardon masturbating with a boy in the church rectory.

Santa Barbara said her two sons were not among the alleged victims, but she said they knew Reardon through church and scouting programs and now she's no longer the regular churchgoer she used to be.

"It's just too eerie to walk into that church where he was molesting those boys," she said. "But the issue comes up everywhere. You'll be at a barbecue or at the market, and someone is talking about it. It's really shocked our community."

If the case does go to trial, prosecutors plan to call 18 of the boys as witnesses. Superior Court Judge Isaac Borenstein says it could last two months.

"I feel so sorry for those kids," said Nancy Jones, who taught Reardon how to swim when he was a boy. Her children aren't among Reardon's accusers.

"When a parent heard that Chris was going to take a bunch of scouts somewhere, it was a seal of approval," Jones said. "It's hard to be suspicious of someone who appeared to be doing so much good."

That squeaky-clean image may have allowed the alleged abuse to go on for an extended period, some experts say. Prosecutors say the abuse began in 1996.

"Sometimes adults won't pick up on hints of abuse dropped by a child, especially if they point to someone of high standing in a community," said Ervin Staub, a social child psychology professor at the University of Massachusetts in Amherst. "And if the boys trusted him, they may have felt like they had a shared secret they didn't want to reveal."

Some Middleton residents say the case has caused them to be more in tune with how children are acting.

"If there's a behavior problem or someone seems to be acting out in a strange way, you say in the back of your mind 'where is this coming from?'" said Jones, who is also a sixth-grade teacher. "It's not that everyone suspects that child has been abused, but it's something that just pops into your head now."

� 2001 The Associated Press

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But of course, it is a crime that Boy Scouts don't allow avowed homosexuals to be scout leaders!

1 Posted on 07/08/2001 16:54:58 PDT by truthsetsfree
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To: truthsetsfree

"When a parent heard that Chris was going to take a bunch of scouts somewhere, it was a seal of approval,"

If he was taking them as Scouts without another adult, he was violating the first rule of Adult Leaders. There always have to be TWO adults with the boys, and NO ADULT IS EVER ALONE WITH A BOY!! If a boy has to be spoken with privately, the Adult Leader must be in sight of the others while talking to the boy.

I'm sure the parents were not aware of that, and they were going on what parents USED to be able to trust; unfortunately we can't do that anymore.

2 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:02:12 PDT by SuziQ
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To: truthsetsfree

But of course, it is a crime that Boy Scouts don't allow avowed homosexuals to be scout leaders!

I wonder if they knew he was a homosexual before he became a scout leader.

3 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:02:41 PDT by Moonman62
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To: truthsetsfree

This needs to be used as a "response" to any "queer" if they ever question why gays shouldn't be allowed to be Boy Scouts or Boy Scout leaders.

My God...this just makes me sick to my stomach. And these faggots wonder why the Scouts won't allow them in. To Hell with all these deviants and their b!tching. Any parent that would let a homosexual teacher or scout master near their young sons is out of their minds.

4 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:07:12 PDT by East Bay Patriot
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To: truthsetsfree

Meanwhile, CBS' "60 Minutes" just aired its 20th consecutive smear-piece on the Boy Scouts this evening.
Guess that pesky Supreme Court decision doesn't mean a whole helluva lot to the CBS braintrust.

5 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:08:21 PDT by TheGrimReaper
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To: truthsetsfree

This sickens me. I am really angry about the gayleft agenda here. As usual, it's gays doing most of these molesting crimes. Sickening.

6 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:10:46 PDT by grlfrnd
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To: Moonman62

But I don't understand. I heard that gay's are not ever child molestors. It's just homophobics that are uninformed that just think that gays are sexaul perverts. Wanna bet this news is not covered?

7 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:11:42 PDT by encm(ss)
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To: truthsetsfree

I live not too far away from this so I am very familiar with this sickening case. This pervert actually kept spreadsheets of his victims, with columns of their genital size and whether he saw them naked and where he touched them. This creep gained the trust of the community because he was active in the church and in the Boy Scouts.

I used to have my sons in the Cub Scouts but I have pulled them out of Scouting entirely, in part because the BSA is not allowed to keep homosexuals from becoming Scout Leaders. Hey, I really couldn't care less about people being homosexual. But I don't want them taking my sons on overnight camping trips.

When I was on a Scouting trip as a child in the summer of 1975, there was a Scout Leader who was rumored to have had oral sex performed on him in his tent by a couple of the other Scouts. At the time, I figured it was just a vicious rumour. Now I am not so sure. This sort of behavior is much more prevalent than I thought.

8 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:17:12 PDT by SamAdams76
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To: encm(ss)

Wanna bet this news is not covered?

No. With this kind of story, it usually stays up at AP for a few hours and then vanishes. The "newspapers of record" might put a little squib on page 46, just to say they reported it, and that's the last we'll hear about it except in a few conservative sources.

9 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:17:59 PDT by Cicero
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To: truthsetsfree

BTTT!!!!

10 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:22:12 PDT by eric_da_grate
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To: truthsetsfree

Hmmm...The 60 Minutes host tonight (forget her name, I don't normally watch SeeBS) has no problems with having gays with scouts on camping trips.

 

11 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:25:08 PDT by hattend
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To: TheGrimReaper

Oops, should have scolled down a little further.

Oh well, BTTT.

12 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:26:08 PDT by hattend
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To: truthsetsfree

This needs to be sent to Hannity & O'Reilly at Fox News. Both of them aren't too happy with the gays trying to force themselves on the Boy Scouts.

13 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:28:00 PDT by 3catsanadog
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To: truthsetsfree

I long for the good old days when God would strike them down directly, you know -- *lightning bolt* -- that kind of thing. Now since the indwelling... "due process" and all that. Unfortunately for me, I just can't accept that jail is enough. Fortunately for me, it's not up to me. God forgive me for what I'd do if it were my kid and he were close enough at hand.

14 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:29:35 PDT by WriteOn
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To: SuziQ

"have to have TWO adults"

When I was a Boy Scout in the 50's, sometimes we didn't even have one adult with us.

Once we were left nineteen miles from the nearest town in the Ozark Mountains. I'll always remember our Scout leader coming out to check on us about 4 am one morning after a particularly violent thunderstorm. The older Scouts were left in charge, and always did a fine job. I guess things have changed.

15 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:30:54 PDT by Judge Parker
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To: truthsetsfree

A few weeks ago Court TV showed on its 10 o'clock pm show the true story of a Scout Leader or leader of a boys club who not only molested boys but manipulated one of them to murder his parents.

16 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:33:23 PDT by Dante3
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To: truthsetsfree

Thankfully I am a Florida resident and have a license plate on my car that says "SCOUTING TEACHES VALUES". And one of those values is sexual purity. NOT Homosexuality.

17 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:34:09 PDT by ICE-FLYER (DP2010@Hotmail.com)
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To: grlfrnd

Hi grlfrnd:

Yes, this is sickening. When my son was a Cub scout,the troop was led by a neighborhood mom. Safe and fun.

18 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:34:59 PDT by PoisedWoman
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To: truthsetsfree

What kind of homophobic hatemongers would PROSECUTE this nice man for helping these troubled youth "get in touch" with their budding sexuality? There was nothing on his agenda that wasn't covered at that infamous "Fistgate" seminar last year.

This is exactly what the National Education Association, the Human Rights Campaign and the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation are trying to promote: Tolerance for struggling young homosexuals who need the freedom to explore their desires with mature, trustworthy partners like this perpetrator.

Prosecute him? Heck, if Al Gore was president, he'd give this guy a medal! "Thank you, Mr. Reardon, for getting involved with our youth! You've helped teach them about caring and tolerance. The boys told me that you really touched them deeply."

19 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:35:11 PDT by BurkeCalhounDabney
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To: SamAdams76

"I used to have my sons in the Cub Scouts but I have pulled them out of Scouting entirely, in part because the BSA is not allowed to keep homosexuals from becoming Scout Leaders. Hey, I really couldn't care less about people being homosexual."

Hard to understand your point here...the S.C. ruled that the BSA can keep homosexuals from becoming Scout Leaders...IF they know it! BTW, wonder if L. Stahl realized how silly she sounded quoting the FBI that the majority of pedophiles were 'straight' males. The very fact that they were pedophiles would preclude them from being straight and place them in the homosexual column!!! And one of the biggest problems we face with this issue is folks saying they do not care about people being homosexual...

20 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:36:01 PDT by Ryman
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To: PoisedWoman

That's right: Cub Scouts (ages 7-10) have "den mothers." At 11, a boy is old enough for Boy Scouts, with Scoutmasters.

21 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:36:18 PDT by BurkeCalhounDabney
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To: truthsetsfree

"The whole town can't wait to get this over with so we can move on,"

Yeah, I bet. Especially the lawyers for NAMBLA and the gay-is-way, BSA-bashing posters to Salon "TableTalk".

22 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:39:25 PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: truthsetsfree

Here's something from Newsmax of last month that lists Boy Scout molesting. Also, go to Grassfire to sign a petition in support of our Boy Scouts.

Gays’ Allies Besiege Boy Scouts
NewsMax.com
Saturday, June 30, 2001

Despite the U.S. Supreme Court’s ruling that the Boy Scouts of America is entitled to ban homosexual leaders, sympathetic groups are waging war against the Scouts. Organizations including American Civil Liberties Union, National Education Association, American Medical Association and many United Way chapters are using their influence in an attempt to force the BSA to abandon a policy meant to protect its young members from homosexual predators.

A year ago in a 5-4 opinion in BSA vs. James Dale, the Supreme Court recognized the Boy Scouts' constitutional right to freedom of association. As a private organization, it has the right to set its own moral code and ban homosexual leaders and members.

The decision set off a firestorm among homosexual groups, which set out to win support for their efforts to coerce the BSA into admitting homosexuals as leaders.

Since then, the campaign has spread across the nation. Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund, Human Rights Campaign (HRC), Scouting for All and other homosexual rights groups have won heterosexual adherents to their cause.

As a result, at least 359 school districts in 10 states have taken action against the Boy Scouts because of the ban, according to Gay Lesbian Straight Education Network (GLSEN).

"And something over 40 United Ways have defunded the Boy Scouts because of its policy," Dave Rice, head of the 7,000-member, California-based Scouting for All, told the Washington Times this week.

Last week, delegates to NEA’s Representative Assembly adopted a proposal calling for the teachers union to "urge state and local affiliates to work with school boards to establish policies requiring that all private organizations using school facilities have nondiscriminatory membership policies."

"There's been unprecedented movement by non-gays to address the Boy Scouts' discrimination," David Buckel, senior staff attorney for Lambda Legal Defense, told the Times. "We've never seen anything like it."

Lambda represented James Dale in his failed legal fight with the Boy Scouts. Dale became a scoutmaster at age 18, but the Boy Scouts expelled him after learning he headed a homosexual group at Rutgers University.

David Smith, spokesman for HRC, the nation's largest homosexual political organization, insists that most of the actions against the Boy Scouts in the past year have been "spontaneous and organic," not the result of pressure groups.

"To my knowledge, nobody's been on the phone, calling the United Way, churches, school systems" or corporations, urging them to cut off the Boy Scouts, he told the Times.

But Jim Anderson, a spokesman for GLSEN, acknowledges that group's 90 chapters have campaigned to get government school systems that sponsor Boy Scout troops to end those affiliations. "We're not taking issue with the Scouts' right to equal access. We say schools should not be running discriminatory programs," he told the Times.

ACLU, which assisted Lambda Legal Defense in the Dale case, is involved in some suits to end what it calls "special treatment" of the Boy Scouts.

Early this month, the presidents of nine of the Boy Scouts' more than 300 councils urged the Boy Scouts to change their policy on homosexuals. They included heads of the New York, Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles, Philadelphia and Minneapolis councils.

All across the nation school boards have been under pressure to deny BSA the use of school facilities. In Broward County, Fla., which had originally resisted issuing such a ban, caved in when a local homosexual convinced them that the ban could harm youths.

"I am 34 and an Eagle Scout, and I could not accept the fact that the Boy Scouts has a policy that could hurt youth in the community. I couldn't sit back and let that happen," Mark LaFontaine, a homosexual, told the Times.

When the Broward County school board's "diversity committee" examined the Boy Scouts' ban on homosexual leaders, it took no action because there had been no complaints. In response, LaFontaine made himself a test case and "applied for a leadership position" with a troop in the Fort Lauderdale area and was turned down, he told the Times.

Late last year, he took his story to the full board. The school board voted to cut its ties with 57 Scout troops. The Scouts sued, claiming the school board had violated the Scouts' rights to free speech. According to the Times, last March a judge issued an injunction, preventing the board from ousting the Boy Scouts.

History of Abuse

Ignored by supporters of the campaign is the long and continuing record of abuse of young Scouts by gay Scout leaders.

These are among the cases of homosexual abuse by adult Scout leaders the press has reported in just the last few months:

FBI waiting when alleged sex offender shows up (March 9, 2001, Atlanta Constitution) When Robert Landrum Shirley walked into a video arcade in Roswell Saturday afternoon (March 3) he was looking for sex with a teen-age boy, authorities said. Instead, the former Boy Scout leader found the FBI's Innocent Images Task Force. According to Atlanta Area Council BSA spokeswoman Lisa Dukes, Shirley, 42, was a Boy Scout leader from at least 1985 to 1990. That year allegations surfaced about him, and the Boy Scouts determined he was no longer eligible to participate, Dukes said. A young boy in Cobb County had complained to his church about inappropriate behavior on Shirley's part. The Boy Scouts passed the information on to the Department of Family and Children Services.

Ex-Scout leader pleads guilty to sex charges (April 5, 2001 - Ottawa Citizen) Timothy John Parris, 36, who plied two of his teen-age cadets with alcohol as they watched pornographic videos and engaged in sexual games, pleaded guilty to sex charges. He admitted to one count each of sexual exploitation and invitation to sexual touching.

One of Parris's victims held his girlfriend's hand and wept as he looked on from the rear of the courtroom. Parris is the former leader of the 26th Sea Venturers, a branch of Scouts Canada.

Former Boy Scout assistant charged with molesting scouts 15 years ago (April 13, 2001 - Ohio News) Dale T. Brant, 38, was indicted on 23 counts of third-degree sexual assault. He was arrested at his New Manchester home by West Virginia State Police. In 2000, two men said Brant repeatedly molested them between April 1985 and October 1986, when they were both 12 years old, said Hancock County Prosecutor James Davis.

Scout leader's sentence criticized (April 25, 2001 - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette) Relatives of three young boys who were bound and physically abused by a Boy Scout leader on an overnight campout said they were appalled by the light sentence imposed on the defendant in a Westmoreland County, Pa., courtroom. John T. Levendosky II, the assistant scoutmaster who pleaded guilty two months ago to 18 charges stemming from the incident and has been in jail about 10 1/2 months, will be eligible for parole in about a month and a half under the sentence handed down by Common Pleas Judge William J. Ober. Ober ordered Levendosky, of Derry Borough, to a maximum of two years in the Westmoreland County Prison, giving him credit for the time he has spent in prison since his arrest.

Scouts leader charged with sex crimes (May 2, 2001 Evansville Courier & Press/AP). Boy Scout troop leader Steve Woodard, 41, of Muncie, Ind., accused of molesting three brothers, has been charged with child molesting and sexual misconduct with a minor. Woodard remained in the Delaware County jail Wednesday morning (May 2) with bond set at $80,000.

Two of the alleged victims had been members of Woodard's Scout troop, based out of Riverside United Methodist Church, authorities said. Woodard was suspended Tuesday by the Boy Scouts of America, police said.

Investigators said scouting officials had met with troop members to inform them of the arrest. One of the victims, now in his late teens, told investigators he had been molested by Woodard as many as 100 times over the past several years.

Defendant: Sex wasn't abusive (May 10, 2001 - Orange County Register) The tall man in the dark-blue suit made his opening statement to jurors Wednesday. "I'm a pedophile, he admitted.

"I'm not going to stand here and say these acts didn't occur - because they did," said a well-groomed and articulate Kenneth Teague, representing himself in a lurid sex-abuse trial in Santa Ana, Calif. ... It has to do with "courage and kindness and trust and love," said Teague, a former computer consultant in Irvine.

Hardly, said Deputy District Attorney Randy Payne, who painted Teague as a manipulative opportunist who abused his positions in the Boy Scouts, Big Brothers and foster-parent programs to seduce vulnerable boys.

Former Scout leader guilty of sex charge (May 23, 2001 - Ottawa Citizen) A former Ottawa assistant Scout leader admitted yesterday to asking a 14-year-old troop member to re-enact a pornographic film with him. Michael Dickey, 25, who was expected to go to trial yesterday on one count of sexual assault and three counts of sexual exploitation, pleaded guilty to one of the sexual exploitation charges.

The former assistant Sea Venturers leader, who quit the scouting movement in 1997, and another leader, Timothy Parris, were arrested in May 1999 after two boys complained to police about an incident that occurred the same year Dickey quit. Parris pleaded guilty in April to one count of sexual exploitation and one count of invitation to sexual touching. He's scheduled to be sentenced next month.

Scout Leader Faces Boy Sex Rap (May 23, 2001 - New York Daily News) An Upper East Side scoutmaster was accused of sex abuse yesterday by a former Boy Scout who claims he was assaulted dozens of times in the troop leader's Manhattan apartment and on campouts and overnight trips. The allegations were made in a $50 million lawsuit that targets scoutmaster Jerrold Schwartz, who has led Troop 666 at the prestigious St. Bartholomew's Church for two decades.

"Jerrold Schwartz is a pedophile. We brought this lawsuit to stop him from having contact with children," the former Scout's attorney, Michael Dowd, said yesterday. Schwartz, 41, declined to comment.

The Greater New York Council of the Boy Scouts of America announced later he had been fired as scoutmaster.

Judge denies pleas to close molest trial (June 19, 2001 - Boston Herald) One boy's post-traumatic stress is so bad, he has not eaten, slept or socialized normally in months. Another boy punches holes in walls as he struggles with his confusion and anger. Several of the youngsters fear being labeled as gay if they are even identified as victims of accused serial pedophile Christopher J. Reardon.

Those are among the accounts of anguished parents who wrote letters hoping to persuade a judge yesterday to close the courtroom when their children testify against Reardon in his upcoming trial.

``My son has been relentlessly tormented at school by boys who knew he was in Boy Scouts and therefore suspected he might be one of Reardon's victims,'' wrote the mother of one boy, now 12 years old, who Reardon is accused of molesting while videotaping the act.

NAMBLA Can Hardly Wait

Finally, there is this gem from the pedophile group North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA).

In 1992, NAMBLA sent a letter to Ben Love, then chief Scout executive of the Boy Scouts of America. The following letter is an excerpt from NAMBLA's Bulletin and written by its co-secretary:

"Dear Mr. Love,

At its 16th membership conference, held in Chicago, August 7-9, 1992, the North American Man/Boy Love Association unanimously adopted the following resolution: 'NAMBLA calls on the Boy Scouts of America to cease its discrimination against openly gay or lesbian persons in the appointment of its scout masters. This will permit more of those individuals who genuinely wish to serve boys to do so.' I feel especially honored to have been asked to alert you of this resolution... I have also been a scout and scout leader and share with so many in NAMBLA affection for the movement. We recognize, of course, that the action for which we call is inevitable. What a great added contribution your organization will make possible to all the boys and girls who participate in it when you take this step. May it be taken in the near future. We share a common mission - to bring greater understanding and light and purpose to the young as they grow. We invite you to join with us in cherishing individual integrity, and in seeking the opportunity for every boy and girl in our country to find their own truth. We encourage you to help every person associated with your organization to be able to express those values from themselves which to them represent for themselves the Good, the True, and the Beautiful. As we work together toward these ends Light will guide our way.

We express these sentiments most respectfully, Very Cordially, Lehand Stevenson, C0-Recording Secretary, NAMBLA. ---------------------------------- Nambla's is licking their lips hoping one day, they too can be Boy Scout leaders.

23 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:39:54 PDT by 3catsanadog
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To: Moonman62

I wonder if they knew he was a homosexual before he became a scout leader.

Since the BSA just spent a couple million dollars taking a case to the US Supreme Court to keep homosexuals out of scout leadership -- I doubt it.

24 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:40:23 PDT by JCG
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To: Cicero,karebare,

I never heard of this case before and I spend way too much time reading the news. You are right, they will deep six this. They already have.

A Bulletin Board which serves newspapers in the Northampton area is HERE. Several threads on Scouts, homosexuals and the United Way.

25 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:40:33 PDT by LarryLied
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To: truthsetsfree

People in Middleton, about 20 miles north of Boston, say their community won't heal unless Reardon is convicted and put away for life.

If he truly did this horrendous thing, then he deserves to be put away for life.

26 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:40:43 PDT by Salvation
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To: truthsetsfree

I can't believe people expect us to just stand by and let our children's minds be corrupted by perverts. It does not take a village! It takes a FAMILY!

27 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:40:55 PDT by BaxterHenley
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To: truthsetsfree

"....130 charges – including rape, molestation and disseminating pornography – involving 29 boys."

And I see it's in Massachusetts, home of "How to teach FISTING to your young people."

28 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:41:44 PDT by brat
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To: truthsetsfree

When a parent heard that Chris was going to take a bunch of scouts somewhere, it was a seal of approval.

Which is

PRECISELY AND EXACTLY

why queers and faggots should NEVER be allowed to work for youth organizations: boy's clubs, girl's clubs, Brownies, Cub Scouts, Girls Scouts, Boy Scouts, etc.

Thousands, probably hundreds of thousands of people over the years have worked very hard to establish the "Seal of Approval" these organizations have. And, as this article points out, the approval is a fragile thing. A few queers and faggots should NEVER be allowed to harm this reputation.

29 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:43:18 PDT by upchuck
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To: BurkeCalhounDabney

If parent's taught their children sex education like they do in schools, Child Protection Services would be knocking at their door post haste and taking the children away because of sexual molestation.

Tolerance - diversity training, what a crock! All it is is a sneaky way to titillate innocent children and teenagers.

30 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:44:35 PDT by 3catsanadog
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To: truthsetsfree

My prediction: This is Mass. If he pleads innocent, he will probably be acquitted. After all, it is far more important to "send a message" to the hate-mongering B.S.A. than to protect children.

31 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:47:04 PDT by Illbay
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To: SamAdams76

I used to have my sons in the Cub Scouts but I have pulled them out of Scouting entirely, in part because the BSA is not allowed to keep homosexuals from becoming Scout Leaders.

Steady big fella.  You need to re-read the Dale decision.  It's just the opposite of that.

My fourteen-year-old Eagle scout just returned to camp this morning where he serves as a staff counselor and aquatics instructor.  Get your boys back in the BSA!   Scouting is too great a character building experience to pass up.

32 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:47:27 PDT by JCG
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To: hattend

Do you think PBS's POV will do an amended show to "put the record straight" about their Scout-bashing gay screed they put up a couple of weeks ago?

Or how about Ray Suarez, who did a similar propaganda piece a few weeks ago on PBS's The Newshour, in which he ventilated all the arguments he'd seen posted by gay advocates on Salon (he posts there, too) who were bashing the BSA and the Supreme Court decision?

This is exactly the sort of thing that Suarez, POV, and the gay brawlers tell us conservatives are just hate-filled and paranoid for thinking might happen.

They are just so incredibly mendacious, vicious, and unfair. It's just unbelievable. And coming from a supposedly conscientious newsman like Suarez. And TIME and Newsweek -- what ever happened to "journalism"?

33 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:48:51 PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: truthsetsfree

And some of the Ass Hole's out there want to let more Homo's to become Scout Leaders?

 

NEVER GIVE UP, NEVER SURENDER!!!!!!

(:^D

34 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:54:06 PDT by Bob Evans
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To: 3catsanadog

Tuesday, June 19, 2001 -- (SALEM AP) - One boy has nightmares and at times calls out the name of accused child molester Christopher Reardon in his sleep.

Another has gotten angrier in the past year and punched holes in walls, kicked in his door, clenched his hands and teeth and then burst into tears.

Another boy is terrified of seeing Reardon on the street. Parents of eight children who may testify against Reardon described their anguish in letters filed by prosecutors to support their motion to close the trial to the media and the public. Reardon, a former Middleton church youth worker and Danvers YMCA swim coach, faces 130 criminal counts involving 29 boys. . .
http://www.gazettenet.com/06192001/news/3258.htm

35 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:54:34 PDT by LarryLied
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To: East Bay Patriot

My God...this just makes me sick to my stomach.

Me too! But all this focus on his role as a scoutmaster is obscuring another detail...he was also a youth minister!

Every week, a new story about some priest or youth minister molesting his young charges. Keep children away from Christian leaders, for the poor trusting children's sake!!!

36 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:54:44 PDT by Belial
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To: Bob Evans

And some of the Ass Hole's out there want to let more Homo's to become Scout Leaders?

Homosexuality and pedophilia are not the same thing.

Pedophilia and the priestly calling, now that's debateable.

37 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:56:04 PDT by Belial
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To: upchuck

Send this to Leslie Stahl, of 60 Minutes fame......the bleeding heart liberal who made a fool out of herself on tonight's show.

38 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:58:00 PDT by mickie
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To: JCG

Sorry, I goofed. The BSA is indeed legally allowed to keep homosexuals out of their leadership ranks. But I wonder how diligently they enforce it with all the public pressure they are getting.

39 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:58:16 PDT by SamAdams76
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To: truthsetsfree

... But of course, it is a crime that Boy Scouts don't allow avowed homosexuals to be scout leaders! ...

That's just the thing ... this guy wasn't avowed but kept his deviance secret. It's kind of like the old saw about what's more dangerous ... the devil that you know about or the devil that you don't know about.

As for me, I don't care if a guy is married or even has children of his own, if he's a doctor or the minister of the largest church in town ... my little girls aren't going anywhere with him unless there's a large group of other adults also going.

40 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:58:54 PDT by JPR_Boise_ID
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To: David Smith

"To my knowledge, nobody's been on the phone, calling the United Way, churches, school systems" or
corporations, urging them to cut off the Boy Scouts, he told the Times.

Hogwash.  Homosexuals and their organizations have been agitating everywhere against the BSA.  Need proof?   University professor tries to use free mail system to send anti-Boy Scout fliers

41 Posted on 07/08/2001 18:01:34 PDT by JCG
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To: SamAdams76

Sorry, I goofed. The BSA is indeed legally allowed to keep homosexuals out of their leadership ranks. But I
wonder how diligently they enforce it with all the public pressure they are getting.

They have a "don't ask, don't tell" policy like the military.  Many more cases like this and it may have to be rethought.

42 Posted on 07/08/2001 18:09:15 PDT by JCG
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To: LarryLied

Thanks for the link, I added it to my debate resources.

Whoever posted the NAMBLA letter, thanks, I saved that, too.

I don't know what it'll take to keep the gay activists at the local papers and media outlets from spiking or downplaying these stories. Like a national journoschmuck told Brent Bozell once, when Bozell cornered him, why a story about two peds sodomizing and killing a teenaged boy didn't make the national news, these stories just don't "resonate".

43 Posted on 07/08/2001 18:09:32 PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: Belial

Keep children away from Christian leaders, for the poor trusting children's sake!!!

36 Posted on 07/08/2001 17:54:44 PDT by Belial

Are you that San Francisco Belial -- or the other one?

44 Posted on 07/08/2001 18:10:40 PDT by JCG
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To: Belial

I wouldn't let my kid near a Catholic Priest, either, so don't worry about that...I don't discriminate when it comes to who is a danger to kids...but the gays attacks on the Boy Scouts are too much to take.

45 Posted on 07/08/2001 18:11:26 PDT by East Bay Patriot
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To: LarryLied

Bump.

46 Posted on 07/08/2001 18:11:40 PDT by karebare
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To: truthsetsfree

"Jury selection for his trial was scheduled to begin Monday in Northampton, where the trial was moved out of concern he wouldn't get an impartial jury close to home."

I don't know about Northampton, but the only place I know of where he can get a "fair(y)" trial would be San Francisco. He would feel right at home.

47 Posted on 07/08/2001 18:14:16 PDT by A2J
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To: truthsetsfree

HELLO ? 60 minutes ?

130 charges ? ?

48 Posted on 07/08/2001 18:14:50 PDT by ChadGore
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To: East Bay Patriot

I'd be careful with any Christian minister. I live in SF and I've become very conscious of homosexual traits. I must say, fully 50% of the Christian ministers I've met around the nation appear to be queerer than three dollar bills.

49 Posted on 07/08/2001 18:15:09 PDT by Belial
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To: JCG

The Boy Scouts have been defunded by the United Way in Palm Beach County and kicked out of the schools in Broward County Florida. Leading the charge against the Scouts have been Reform Synagogues and Unitarians. The Rabbi of " one of the largest Reform congregations in Florida" has been sitting in jail for the last month charged with sex offenses:

U.S. alleges rabbi pursued 30 teen boys online

We should just face it: liberals are sick. Anyone who advocates homosexuals in the Boy Scouts needs to be investigated for committing sex crimes themselves.

50 Posted on 07/08/2001 18:20:52 PDT by LarryLied
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To: Moonman62

It is Massachusetts. And Northampton, where the girls love the girls and the boys love the boys.

51 Posted on 07/08/2001 18:21:29 PDT by Leisler
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To: LarryLied

We should just face it: liberals are sick. Anyone who advocates homosexuals in the Boy Scouts needs to be investigated for committing sex crimes themselves.

You are absolutely right -- on both points!

52 Posted on 07/08/2001 18:25:36 PDT by JCG
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To: WriteOn

The indwelling? What is that?

53 Posted on 07/08/2001 18:29:13 PDT by Askel5
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To: PoisedWoman

When my son was a Cub scout,the troop was led by a neighborhood mom. Safe and fun.

My mom was the den mother of my Cub Scout group back in the early 80s. We had a lot of fun, and it was a great experience.

However, I'm now struck with what I expect will be an unpopular opinion, but here goes anyway: it seems to me that the same rationale which leads the BSA to ban homosexual men from being scout leaders ought to lead them to ban heterosexual women from being scout leaders. The relevant feature of both groups is a sexual preference for males. And since boy scouts are male, etc., etc.

Now, I know everybody's thinking, "Purple Haze, you idiot, the queers, not the moms, are the ones who like young boys, and so only they should be banned. Well, my response to this is that it is an over-generalization. Sure, there are homosexual men who are pedophiles (see above). But there are heterosexual women who are pedophiles as well. I don't know the numbers or stats, and I seriously doubt anyone does.

So, here's my conclusion (if you've read this far without sending me a flame, thank you): we're all concerned about scout leaders getting sexual with scouts. This could happen when the scout leaders are homosexual, PEDOPHILIC men, or heterosexual, PEDOPHILIC women. Current BSA policy is to ban only heterosexual men, whether they are pedophiles or not. This seems to me like it would let in some of the bad (heterosexual, pedophilic women) while keeping out some of the "not-as-bad" (homosexual, non-pedophilic men). There are two possible improvements to the current BSA policy, both of which would be more consistent with the desire to protect the scouts from indecency:

a) simply ban all pedophiles, whether male or female. This at least is what we wish could be enforced. Now, this is not really practical, since no one wears their pedophilia on their sleeve, and isn't likely to mention it in an interview. So, here's the second one, which I think really makes sense:

b) ban homosexual men AS WELL AS heterosexual women from being scout leaders. Then we're at least being consistent, targeting everybody who's potentially attracted (by virtue of preferring males sexually) to the scouts.

If you disagree, it is probably because you think homosexual men are much more likely to be pedophiles than heterosexual women. That may or may not be true--I surely don't know. You can point to this article as evidence, but there surely have been many high-profile cases of pedophilia with heterosexual women as the perpetrators.

--PH, strapping on asbestos suit.

54 Posted on 07/08/2001 18:29:28 PDT by purple haze
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To: truthsetsfree

Welcome to Massachusetts, the most tolerant state in the nation.



Our "Big Lie" for today: homosexuals pose no threat to boyscouts...

55 Posted on 07/08/2001 18:34:31 PDT by Antoninus
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To: Belial

"fully 50% of the Christian ministers I've met around the nation appear to be queerer than three dollar bills."

Fully 100% of the people who would take a name like belial betray the darkness of their heart. You are no exception. You have no credibilty in an issue like this. It's not too late to pray for forgiveness.

56 Posted on 07/08/2001 18:37:52 PDT by Mike K
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To: truthsetsfree

When will these liberal do gooders learn that homos are out for one thing, and one thing only. This case should open their eyes.

57 Posted on 07/08/2001 18:40:56 PDT by chainsaw
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To: truthsetsfree

This is the way homosexuals have acted forever and we have a certain portion of the population who continually stand and say they are discriminated againsr,America is woefully stupid!

58 Posted on 07/08/2001 18:41:32 PDT by gunnedah (gunnedah)
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To: Belial

There always seems to be something pro-queer about all your postings!

59 Posted on 07/08/2001 18:43:57 PDT by Chapita
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To: Antoninus

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but being from Mass, and having somewhat followed this story, I believe this Reardon guy was married.

If I remember right his wife was supposedly clueless about this pervs activities, and I think she quickly left the scene and their home, to go live elsewhere with relatives shortly after the arrest. I don't think she ever gave a statement. I think that reporters truly felt that she had absolutely no knowledge of what this guy did. After it came out there were written records, videotapes (and worse) that he made, I think she took off.

60 Posted on 07/08/2001 18:44:17 PDT by BansheeBill
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To: Chapita

Nah, you just see queers under every bush.

61 Posted on 07/08/2001 18:45:54 PDT by Belial
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To: SuziQ

Isn't this just more 'Hate Crime' & 'Intolerance' by the BSA??

 

62 Posted on 07/08/2001 18:48:13 PDT by dodger
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To: SuziQ

Isn't this just more 'Hate Crime' & 'Intolerance' by the BSA??

 

63 Posted on 07/08/2001 18:48:47 PDT by dodger
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To: Belial

Yep! Just shook your bush, huh?

64 Posted on 07/08/2001 18:51:08 PDT by Chapita
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To: Belial

Click the banner above to see what has been going on for years.
There is a homosexual plan and it is working.

65 Posted on 07/08/2001 18:55:46 PDT by Jimbaugh
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To: Belial

"Homosexuality and pedophilia are not the same thing."

You may have written this just to get a rise out of someone, but if you did, I will take you up on it. Homosexuality is the sexual attraction of a male for another male (Lesbianism is the sexual attraction for a female to another female) and pedophilia is just that the male another male is attracted to is a minor. So by definition, in the case of a Scout leader and a Scout, any physical attraction of a sexual nature would make either male a homosexual...and the adult a pedophile!

66 Posted on 07/08/2001 18:58:15 PDT by Ryman
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To: TheGrimReaper

Did you see how the cbs intro was worded? Something like the Supreme Court gave the scouts the right to exclude gays. Should have been something like "Supreme Court rebuffs unconstitutional attempts by the lower courts to infringe on private groups rights." They don't get it do they. They are so far left that rather seems to be in the middle of the extremes.

67 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:00:05 PDT by BOBWADE
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To: purple haze

However, I'm now struck with what I expect will be an unpopular opinion, but here goes anyway: it seems to me that the same rationale which leads the BSA to ban homosexual men from being scout leaders ought to lead them to ban heterosexual women from being scout leaders.

You don't understand the rationale.  The BSA feels that homosexual scout leaders, whether male or female, would not be proper role models for young boys and that they can't really commit to the scout oath and its provision to be "morally straight."   (If you can't commit to the oath, you can't be in Scouting.)

There's nothing about being a "heterosexual woman," of itself,  that would prevent one from taking the oath or being a role model for youth.  Pedophilia is not only condemned but criminal whether homo or heterosexual in nature.

68 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:02:49 PDT by JCG
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To: truthsetsfree

Click the banner above to see what has been going on for years.
There is a homosexual plan and it is working.

69 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:05:13 PDT by Jimbaugh
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To: Ryman

pedophilia is just that the male another male is attracted to is a minor.

Wow, you're just basically ignorant, aren't you?

Check out dictionary.com someday, or one of those old-fashioned things called "books".

70 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:05:25 PDT by Belial
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To: JCG

If that is indeed the interest the BSA is serving (eliminating homosexuals as opposed to pedophiles), then you are absolutely right. I guess the spirit of this thread just led me to believe that it was the pedophilia that people are concerned about, and not the homosexuality. I stand corrected.

 

71 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:06:16 PDT by purple haze
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To: That Poppins Woman

Let's hear again how "bigoted" those 29 boys were for having their innocence assaulted?

 

72 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:11:15 PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: truthsetsfree

The headline is misleading since the Scout Leader didn't seem to identify as gay. (Anyone watch the South Park from two weeks ago?) Secondly, obviously the ban didn't work - and there's no apparently no employment test for homosexuality so I doubt if a ban would do much good in any event. It would be like locking your windows and leaving the door open.

It seems as if there's a serious problem with adults (or either gender) abusing their authority with kids (of either gender). Gay-baiting is a stupid response to a critical problem.

73 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:11:40 PDT by garbanzo
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To: Belial

I don't know if all homosexuals prefer adolescent boys, I think there are some gays who are trying to say age 13 should be the age of consent, pedophilia can be defined in different ways but no 50 year old man had better be looking at my 13 year old son or I'll do something very bad. Then it'll be me in trouble and the pedophile will be considered a victim of a hate crime.

74 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:19:02 PDT by FITZ
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To: Belial

"The act or fantasy on the part of an adult of engaging in sexual activity with a child or children."

The dictionary definition which you linked to provides the proof I referred to...if either a male or female is attracted to a minor of the same sex, that male or female is either a homosexual or lesbian by definition. It would be yourself that is mistaken...

75 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:19:38 PDT by Ryman
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To: truthsetsfree

Where exactly does the article say this gentleman was a homosexual-American? (FYI, the majority of pedophiles are heterosexual-American).

76 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:21:09 PDT by ehat
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To: truthsetsfree

If I may chime in with another amateur line, Kruschev's vow to bury the West couldn't have been as bad as what his ideology's supporters here and now are attempting. Are the enemies of responsible liberty of the 'old school' barfing in their graves over the insanity that their modern day replacements have contemplated? Wouldn't even Stalin be saying something like, "C'mon! What the Hell!"?

77 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:24:27 PDT by vox1138
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To: FITZ

Then it'll be me in trouble and the pedophile will be considered a victim of a hate crime.

Well, not really. A "hate crime" is most often defined by violence based solely on the skin color or sex orientation of the victim.

If you beat the spit out of a man who molested your son, that would fall more under the "crime of passion" category, and I doubt many juries would sentence you harshly.

But that's all beside the point. Your intent was to make light of the fact that some unfortunate individuals are still lynched in good ole Amerika.

78 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:24:59 PDT by Belial
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To: Ryman

... if either a male or female is attracted to a minor of the same sex, that male or female is either a homosexual or lesbian by definition. It would be yourself that is mistaken...

Exactly. The apologists for sexual deviancy will try to say that the perp was "other than gay." Homosexual by definition describes only the sexes involved, not their ages.

79 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:25:58 PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: ehat

WRONG...

80 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:26:05 PDT by Ryman
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To: Ryman

BTW, wonder if L. Stahl realized how silly she sounded quoting the FBI that the majority of pedophiles were 'straight' males.

She doesn't feel silly, and doesn't know she sounds silly. She's just clueless.

That's why she unknowingly was taken for a ride by a so-called "internet expert" who actually convinced her that he had, in short order, created a fake Lesley Stahl web page, when all he had done is create an HTML document on his hard drive.

Apparently it's gay night at 60 Minutes -- they are also repeating the piece on S.F. Symphony director Michael Tilson-Thomas.

81 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:26:10 PDT by L.N. Smithee
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To: Ryman

You either have a reading comprehension problem or a serious aversion to honesty and truth.

The definition of pedophilia is lust and/or sexual actions from an adult of either sex to a child of either sex. There is no provision that both pedophile and object of desire must be of the same sex.

I won't bother to post the dictionary definition just to make a fool of you. You've already done an admirable job of that.

My apologies if you're a student and simply haven't learned this word yet.

82 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:30:54 PDT by Belial
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To: garbanzo

The headline is misleading since the Scout Leader didn't seem to identify as gay.

Lessee.  He is identified as a "he" in the article and "he" molested 29 boys.  I'd say we have something pretty doggone close to a "gay" here.  He may be bisexual -- but remember -- they're gay, too.   At least part of the time.
 
 

83 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:31:04 PDT by JCG
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To: JCG

Still, I think my argument holds for people who try to justify the BSA's ban on grounds that it protects children from sexual predation. But, again, as long as the BSA's intention is, as you pointed out, to adhere to the oath of being morally straight, there need be no further justification.

84 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:31:53 PDT by purple haze
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To: ehat

Where exactly does the article say this gentleman was a homosexual-American?

Hmmm...let's see...I know I can find it here somewhere...ah, here it is:

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The documents also say they found a videotape of Reardon masturbating with a boy in the church rectory.

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(FYI, the majority of pedophiles are heterosexual-American)

That's right. That's because the majority of Americans are heterosexual. But you know as well as I do that child molestation is more mainstream in gay circles than in straight.

Any questions?

85 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:34:01 PDT by L.N. Smithee
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To: grlfrnd

And they want to teach "acceptance" of homosexuality, transgendered, etc in our public schools. They don't just want acceptance, they want to convert normal people into gays. I don't mean the ones who go about their business and don't even mention who their significant partner is, and who don't bother anyone. I am talking about the radical, activist gays, who are pushing this agenda and molesting all the way...

86 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:35:17 PDT by buffyt
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To: 3catsanadog

But if you don't let them be boy scout leaders, how they gonna meet little boys? What a bunch of Sickos!!!

87 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:36:22 PDT by buffyt
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To: ehat

(FYI, the majority of pedophiles are heterosexual-American).

That's like saying the majority of Swedes are white.  You've proved nothing but your own stupidity.
 

88 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:36:28 PDT by JCG
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To: Cultural Jihad

Isn't it interesting that some folks (Leslie Stahl and the 60 Minutes production company) can, with at straight face, argue that the majority of pedophiles are not homosexuals...that is patiently false. This is another instance of the FBI's crime statistics are being twisted. However, as was stressed in the show's segment in question, the problem is whether the individual can subscribe to the Scout Oath to be "morally straight"...something neither a homosexual or pedophile of whatever sex can claim to be...

89 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:36:47 PDT by Ryman
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To: L.N. Smithee

Child molestation is also more mainstream in the Christian ministry than most other professions.

90 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:37:16 PDT by Belial
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To: ehat

(FYI, the majority of pedophiles are heterosexual-American).

Of course the vast majority of people are heterosexual, so your stat is purposefully misleading.

 

91 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:38:40 PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: Cultural Jihad

Reardon isn't "gay" by the same logic that says Clarence Thomas isn't "black" - they don't fit the politically correct mold.

92 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:41:22 PDT by Brute_Force
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To: Askel5

The indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

93 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:41:47 PDT by mommadooo3
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To: Ryman

I hear that the Boy Scouts discriminate against rapists, thieves, and shop-lifters. What a bunch of "bigots!"

94 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:41:52 PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: ehat

heterosexual-American

As opposed to rapist-American, thief-American, and shop-lifter-American. Sheesh! Take your PC shill talk and take it to Salon or DemoRat.com.

95 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:44:11 PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: Belial

Your intent was to make light of the fact that some unfortunate individuals are still lynched in good ole Amerika.

I'm not making light of the fact that many children are being victimized by these sick pedophiles. I doubt in the past they were tolerated like they are now, I don't see how we can have a society that is safe for children that has total rights for pedophiles to go and do anything they want. I could care less if two 50 year old men want to get together, but we must protect children better than we are.

96 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:44:58 PDT by FITZ
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To: Cultural Jihad

Good job on extinguishing the flames posted on this headline, C.J. Rhetorical twists are afoot again, albeit here. An ex-president once attempted vindication of an activity by the careful use of important words like "private", "improper", "inappropriate", "relations", and...oh heck, the word "is" doesn't even have a clear meaning anymore. Same sex crimes not involving same sex preferences has the same logic as reproductive rights supporters not supporting the right to reproduce. Well, let's give some thanks. At least we're not trying to make predatory (or alternate preference) scoutmasters "safe, legal, and rare." Well, not at this time.

97 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:46:05 PDT by vox1138
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To: Belial

Child molestation is also more mainstream in the Christian ministry than most other professions.

No, it's much more prevalent among satanist daycare workers.

98 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:46:07 PDT by JCG
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To: Belial

"I'd be careful with any Christian minister. I live in SF and I've become very conscious of homosexual traits. I must say, fully 50% of the Christian ministers I've met around the nation appear to be queerer than three dollar bills."

I think you're rabble-rousing and I don't trust your "statistics".

99 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:46:59 PDT by Brute_Force
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To: ehat

** Bigoted Against Evil Behaviors **

Concerning the question of rights, that homosexuals are a "legitimate minority group": Liberals are talking about a rise in hate crimes, against Arabs during the war, against different minority groups, and they ALWAYS include homosexuals, always slip in under that umbrella.

I don't think anyone should make physical assaults, but now, things such as verbal harassment. So what's next? If I see some guy pick up dog excrement off the street, and eat it, I'm not allowed to say anything? I'm not allowed to be disgusted and say: "Hey, you're sick, man! Cut it out!" If I see a prostitute on the corner, I'm not allowed to say: "Hey, you're doing something really terrible and awful! You're destroying yourself! I don't think you should be here!" That's the logical extension.

Anybody that wants to do any kind of evil, all they have to do is declare themselves a "minority group." Personally, I think that's one reason there's been an increase of intolerance towards LEGITIMATE minority groups. By homosexuals insisting that THEY'RE a minority group, they've diluted the whole concept of what a minority group IS. If being against homosexuality makes me a bigot, okay, I'm a bigot. That's what the liberals are saying: "If you won't tolerate homosexuality, then you're a bigot." They say that all the time. All I can say is: "Fine. So be it. Then I'm a bigot."

I think a lot of other people out there are saying the same thing. They've made it ACCEPTABLE to be a bigot, because people are saying: "If being in favor of civil rights means that I have to tolerate homosexuality, then I'm not in favor of civil rights anymore." Now bigotry is legitimized, because you can't expect people to accept homosexuality. That's just not going to happen. It may happen over the short-term, for a short period of time, if they can propagandize enough people. But then, all these young kids are going to be born in twenty years from now. They're going to all be coming up, and they're going to be as disgusted and repelled by it as most people are today. So these battles are going to have to be fought all over again, and they're not going to win.

Will rapists claim to be the next persecuted minority? Am I a bigot if I'm against rape? Then okay, I'm a bigot. Forget the other minorities. If society says THEY'RE a minority, too, then all the REAL, LEGITIMATE minorities must be something to be intolerant of as well.

It legitimizes real bigotry. I think it's the worst mistake that the civil rights movement has made in the last twenty years, accepting homosexuals as a legitimate minority group. I know they were doing it just to try to increase their numbers and to increase the pressure, so they could get more rights for themselves. But they made a terrible mistake, because for one thing, they've given up their high moral ground. Now, the backlash against homosexuals has now extended to legitimate minorities.

What a terrible blow to the self-esteem of minorities, to say: "I'm a minority; homosexuals are a minority; therefore we're equal." That's what the homosexuals are saying. So a black person is supposed to say: "Oh? I'm equal to a homosexual?" An Asian is supposed to say: "Oh? I'm equal to a sex-pervert?" They're trying to equate this equivalence with legitimate minority groups, to go along with that. What a blow to their self-esteem, to their sense of their own self-worth, to say they're no better than these guys who go out and do these disgusting acts, just because their skin is black, or yellow, or whatever. That's cruel to themselves.

It's cruel to equate legitimate racial, ethnic, and religious minorities, with people who are in the minority because they do evil, and most people don't do evil.

Source: The Wisdom of the Ages

100 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:47:33 PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: truthsetsfree

101 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:48:16 PDT by smith288
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To: Belial

You are the one with the comprehension problem...any time the adult and the minor is the same sex, the pedophile is a homosexual or a lesbian. In the case of the BSA, the problem is sexual attraction of male adult and minor...a pedophile that was not homosexual would be attempting to become a Girl Scout leader...

102 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:48:24 PDT by Ryman
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To: Ryman

OH, now I understand what you're saying!

103 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:53:10 PDT by Belial
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To: hattend

Maybe this horrible story of what can happen to innocent boys needs to be sent to 60 Minutes? Of course they probably won't report it.

104 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:53:16 PDT by JulieRNR21
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To: JCG

Are prisoners who rape other men in prison homosexual? Sexual orientation is different from who you have sex with. Yes his targets were male - however it's not mentioned whether he considered himself to be gay. Yes, it's a difficult concept for people to grasp, especially in such a sex-negative culture which tends to impute a certain degree of dirtyness to any sexual encounter whether or not it was forced (which is why the wall of secrecy decends in sex crime cases).

The reason why I bring it up is that there is no test for homosexuality so the ban could only affect self-identified homosexuals.

Here's the problem in a nutshell. The BSA has a perfectly defensible, philosophically consistent reason for banning gays - i.e. they don't want gays in the Scouts. However, social conservatives being allergic to a good argument have to go and make up a specious argument - namely that it protects kids from molestation. It's specious because it simply is impossible for it to work. Any homosexual who did want to get into the Scouts for the purpose of molesting kids could simply lie about his orientation and no one would be none the wiser. On the other hand a Scout Leader who came out of the closet but has an exemplary record would get kicked out nonetheless which would ruin the public support for the ban if it was presented not as a freedom of association issue, but as an anti-molestion issue.

105 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:53:43 PDT by garbanzo
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To: Belial

They are.. interesting aren't they?

They SHOULD be content with facts, and violations of rights. It doesn't matter WHO molested the kids, gay or straight, purple or brown, tall or short...

But yeah... they want a lynching. They've found a convenient excuse to vent their hate and are doing so. Hate crime laws against whites = bad, hate crime laws against gays = good.

This is why mainstream conservativism is dead. They no longer adhere to moral principles.

Violations of rights is all that matters.

 

106 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:54:56 PDT by DAnconia55
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To: truthsetsfree

You can bet the pro-homo cheerleaders will be here trying to convince us that the guy was hetero!

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight!.

107 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:58:40 PDT by FormerLib
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To: Belial, Jim Robinson

>>>Pedophilia and the priestly calling, now that's debateable.<<<

Jim, do we really need liberal disruptors?

108 Posted on 07/08/2001 19:59:37 PDT by FormerLib
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To: Belial

Child molestation is also more mainstream in the Christian ministry than most other professions.

THATS A PRETTY BROAD GENERALIZATION SINCE MOST OF THE POPULATION OF THE US IS CHRISTIAN!!

109 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:01:05 PDT by ATOMIC_PUNK
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To: Belial

>>>The definition of pedophilia is lust and/or sexual actions from an adult of either sex to a child of either sex. There is no provision that both pedophile and object of desire must be of the same sex.<<<

Oh, so sorry to have offended you. 'Pederast' would be your preferred calling then?

110 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:01:44 PDT by FormerLib
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To: DAnconia55

Not so...we disapprove of crime of any stripe, whether 'HATE' is involved or not...

111 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:02:37 PDT by Ryman
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To: Chapita

Of course, Belial goes that way. All leftists really love sexual deviants, deep down! ;-)

112 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:02:59 PDT by FormerLib
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To: garbanzo

However, social conservatives being allergic to a good argument have to go and make up a specious argument - namely that it protects kids from molestation.

Wrong. The BSA as a private organization has a right to choose its membership, and they are not saying that the ban on sexual perverts is there to prevent molestation, rather they are saying they don't want the innocence of their members assaulted. Sexual assault is not the only form of assault on innocence. When a man stands up in front of children and proclaims he is a sexual pervert, that, too, is an assault on the innocence of children.

 

113 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:04:26 PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: grlfrnd & Cicero

As usual, it's gays doing most of these molesting crimes.

The media will claim this isn't a newsworthy story. Nobody wants to hear agout it. Move along, show's over.

114 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:05:29 PDT by oyez
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To: Belial

Homosexuals are always trying to be shown as people who live just like any other person except they have sexual relations with the same sex. However, I heard a report of CDC on their sexual activity in a study on AIDS and their data showed homosexuals averaged 500 sexual partners, although many had had sexual relations with more than 1,000. Of the 500 sexual partners about one-half were were total strangers.

115 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:05:49 PDT by maranatha
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To: Belial

Ok, Belial,

Knock it off. The filthy little secret about the "gay movement" is that they are largely silent on the issues of pedophilia and age of consent. At best, gay organizations will pay lip service to the need to follow the laws.

But you know blasted well that the ulterior motive for gay men being boy scout leaders is early recruitment-lust for young booty. Do not even try to suggest that these gay wannabe scout leaders are as pure as the undriven snow.

Having been a boy scout and witnessing first hand the devastation that a gay scout master can wreak on young boys was an eye-opener to me. I saw a few boys who were and probably still are haunted by acts of a predator.

You obviously do not understand the MO of a child molester. They make career decisions based on their desire to molest. They carefully create environments, much like a spider, to ensnare their next victims.

Back off.

116 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:06:16 PDT by VRW Conspirator
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To: truthsetsfree

Everyone needs to send a copy of this information to their local PBS station. Let's demand they have a program showing the "other side of the story".

117 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:06:30 PDT by RckyRaCoCo
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To: DAnconia55

This is why mainstream conservativism is dead. They no longer adhere to moral principles

I am getting very tired of you and many of your friend's SICK interpretation of what it means to be a Conservative.

118 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:08:00 PDT by Texasforever
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To: RckyRaCoCo

bump that

119 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:09:18 PDT by maranatha
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To: Cultural Jihad

This entire thread is about molestation and it's not the only one that's appeared on FR and people have posted dozens of links to other conservative publications that all have the same theme. Virtually none them mention "innocence" in the manner you've describe - do you seriously believe adolescent boys are ignorant of the existence of homosexuality?. The Scout ban is based in the religious philosophy of the Scouts, which is fine given that we have freedom of religion. This is an eminently defensible argument and really needs no justification. However, social conservatives are embarrased by this good argument and need to defame gay people as a class in what will ultimately be a losing argument.

120 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:11:15 PDT by garbanzo
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To: TheGrimReaper

CBS and braintrust. That's an oxymoron, right?

121 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:11:40 PDT by ninenot
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To: Ryman

Stahl realized how silly she sounded quoting the FBI that the majority of pedophiles were 'straight' males.

Perhaps it is true, but "straight" pedophiles are not a political constituency.

122 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:12:02 PDT by Salman
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To: East Bay Patriot, grlfrnd, TheGrimReaper, purple haze, encm(ss), SamAdams76, hattend, Dante3, mickie

See: "Does homosexuality equal pedophiles and beastilists?" and "The objective of the homosexual agenda is to clear the path for pederasts"

From: In Their Own Words: The Homosexual Agenda:

<< "Homosexual activist Michelangelo Signorile, who writes periodically for The New York Times, summarizes the agenda in OUT magazine:

The most subversive action lesbian and gay men can undertake --and one that would perhaps benefit all of society--is to transform the notion of family entirely." "Its the final tool with which to dismantle all sodomy statues, get education about homosexuality and AIDS into the public schools and in short to usher in a sea change in how society views and treats us." >>

"More on the Pedophilia Question"

"Some EXACT quotes from the Gay Movement itself -- They ARE after our kids!!"

Some Things You May Not Know About Homosexuality Published by the Minnesota Family Council

Parents' Rights Coalition

Leave The Kids Alone

123 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:13:56 PDT by EdReform
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To: VRW Conspirator

"You obviously do not understand the MO of a child molester."

Hey VRW, don't get too riled with Belial because as his name shows, he doesn't care a twit about the young boys or the harm that the pervert inflicted on them. In fact he/she probably applauds the homosexual agenda.

In addition, Belial is very probably a homosexual him/herself and just wants to start some trouble. Unlike his father, Satan, if you ignore him, he will flee.

124 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:14:55 PDT by A2J
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To: Ryman

I'm mot so sure: please correct me if I'm wrong--but pedophilia is, I think, having sexual relations with a child under the age of 16--but the child can be male or female. With THAT definition, an 18-year-old male can be convicted of pedophilia for a romp with his 16-year-old girlfriend. Given that, no question that the majority of pedophilia is committed by 'straight' men. HOWEVER, only queers do young boys.

125 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:17:34 PDT by ninenot
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To: truthsetsfree

I think I'm going to throw up.

126 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:20:02 PDT by Saundra Duffy
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To: SamAdams76

Please clarify: you pulled your sons from scouting because of what?

127 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:20:21 PDT by bribriagain
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To: A2J

But thats why bedial is here, he needs attention. He probably has a nose ring and green hair.

128 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:24:06 PDT by Aquamarine
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To: bribriagain

Click the banner above to see what has been going on for years.
There is a homosexual plan and it is working.

129 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:24:26 PDT by Jimbaugh
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To: Belial

Your comment is scurrilous and illogical. Pedophilia and homosexuality are obviously not identical. They are two different types of perversion, with a great deal of overlap. The Catholic Church, like the Boy Scouts, prohibits homosexuals in leadership. That neither is 100 percent effective in stopping acts of sexual perversion is no argument to lift the ban, any more than the occurrence of bank robberies is a reason to legalize stealing. RB

130 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:25:04 PDT by truthsetsfree
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To: SamAdams76

When I was active with the Scouts as an assistant leader, we NEVER assumed that an individual was 'straight.' We also NEVER assumed that he was queer. We just watched a lot. Scouts' policy of 'don't ask, don't tell' meant that the troop leaders had to be vigilant with new assistants, and we were. One false move and they were OUT. No concern, then or now, for political correctness. It was "on the highway" and if the perp had to walk 60 miles to get home, tough patooties.

131 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:25:07 PDT by ninenot
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To: TheGrimReaper

Meanwhile, CBS' "60 Minutes" just aired its 20th consecutive smear-piece on the Boy Scouts this evening.

I turned to the 60 Minutes channel at 7:00 P.M. but switched channels after the first 15 seconds I had it on.

There was a gay rights apologist accusing the Boy Scouts of "teaching to hate" because the Boy Scouts do not allow gays to be Boy Scout leaders. That was all I needed to hear.

I, personally, could care less what they do with each other behind closed doors. If they want to engage in four-somes with a German Sheppard and a sheep, that it is also their business as far as I am concerned.

However, once they demand the right to take my Boy Scout aged son out on a camping trip, that becomes my business and that is where I draw the line.

I wonder what 60 Minute's position would be if teenaged boys and adult men demanded the right to go camping with the Girl Scouts. Once the Girls Scouts refused to allow this, would 60 Minutes put one of the men on their show and air an accusation that the Girl Scouts were "teaching to hate" men?

132 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:31:21 PDT by Polybius
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To: FITZ, Ryman, ehat, JCG, L.N. Smithee, VRW Conspirator, A2J

FYI - see reply #123 above

133 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:32:22 PDT by EdReform
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To: johniegrad, Easy_Shark, Catholicguy, patent, aposiopetic, salvation,antoninus

FYI

134 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:32:56 PDT by Imbe
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To: Jhoffa_, Huck, Kevin Curry, Cultural Jihad, Dane, Roscoe, CWOJackson, LarryLied, Fred25

FYI

135 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:33:09 PDT by Imbe
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To: garbanzo

"Virtually none them mention "innocence" in the manner you've describe - do you seriously believe adolescent boys are ignorant of the existence of homosexuality?"

Absolutely, and for good reason.

You're mistaking knowledge with understanding. While most adolescents may have heard of homosexuality, their understanding of what incorporates may be totally different.

To use a very simple example, I know about astrophysics, but I have no idea of what it entails, having never been exposed to it.

I believe the prohibition against homosexuals by the BSA is founded on strong beliefs and experiences as to the dangers of homosexuality and its offshoots. It is the wisdom of the BSA in attempting to prevent the introduction of such a hideous lifestyle, as is protecting those young boys from marching over a cliff.

One does not need to experience homosexuality to know that it's harmful.

136 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:33:53 PDT by A2J
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To: truthsetsfree

Where is the exact link to this? I would like to post it but I foresee them asking me for the link?

137 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:34:49 PDT by electron1
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To: Ryman

Pedophilia encompasses all adults of whatever orientation who are attracted to children of either sex. Adult males attracted to underaged females or males or both, and adult females attracted to underaged females or males or both. We had a nice case one place I lived of a woman who did physical therapy on disabled children and well, never mind what she was doing with the little girls, but pedophilia cuts across all lines of sexual orientation.

138 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:35:15 PDT by patriciaruth
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To: Aquamarine

"But thats why bedial is here, he needs attention. He probably has a nose ring and green hair."

Don't forget the pitchfork and pointed tail!

139 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:35:37 PDT by A2J
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To: Polybius

bump

140 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:36:57 PDT by RckyRaCoCo
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To: truthsetsfree

This is perfect...yet another opportunity for the media to redeem itself will go to waste...and the corrosion will continue as this story is swept under the rug...

141 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:37:09 PDT by oneway
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To: A2J

In addition, Belial is very probably a homosexual him/herself and just wants to start some trouble. Unlike his father, Satan, if you ignore him, he will flee.

Thanks A2J.
I originally wrote that I thought he was a flaming homo but erased that statement before I posted it. As a matter of fact, I wrote, "Belial, you are either young and inexperienced OR gay and sadistic". But, I did not post it, mind you. I erased it, before I posted my reply.

BTW, I read a book about cops and their line of specialty. The section of cops who handled pedophiles had some surprises in them. An experienced detective stated that the friends and family of most pedophiles are normally shocked when they are arrested. The Peds are usually active in their community and very friendly to everyone. No one suspects them. This is the nasty web they weave.

Peds typically "allow" kids (usually boys) to smoke, drink and do drugs. They allow music of any kind and wild behavior, such as looking at pornographic material. But, notably, they are "hip". This is to draw in their victims-typically a boy(s) with "problems".

At a young age the child molester decides that they like "young" people. There entire life and focus/addiction is centered around youth. This is why you see them being arrested as priests, teachers, coaches, etc. They planned it all along.

142 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:37:48 PDT by VRW Conspirator
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To: all

I've read that 70-odd% of sexual assaults on boys are committed by heterosexual men. (An FBI stat, I think.)

Now, obviously, these men aren't really straight. I assume they are hiding behind a wife or dating women. Percentage-wise, I wonder who is more of a danger to my sons...the married man I don't suspect, or the homosexual that I do suspect.

143 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:40:05 PDT by Dianna
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To: electron1

For direct link, go to washtimes.com and you will see a link to the AP story.

144 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:40:25 PDT by truthsetsfree
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To: A2J

While most adolescents may have heard of homosexuality, their understanding of what incorporates may be totally different.

What universe do you inhabit? Hang out in a local jr. high or middle school and listen to the conversations. These kids know everything about everything. This isn't the 1950s guy - and even then I suspect kids knew things.

145 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:40:48 PDT by garbanzo
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To: truthsetsfree

NORTHAMPTON, Mass.

Says a whole lot right there...

FMCDH

146 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:42:56 PDT by nothingnew
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To: SamAdams76

Hey, I really couldn't care less about people being homosexual. But I don't want them taking my sons on overnight camping trips.

Well said. What is so freaking hard to understand about your succinct summation of the sentiments of those opposed to queers in Scouting? It astounds me.

Kudos to yanking your kid...and your action fortells the real solution to all our gripes...if we cant reclaim the education system and the children of this country than we are doomed as a cause...It is hopeless to assume that the otherside will capitulate to the extent that they will play fair, and agree to return our education system to an objective standard...we must unfortunalty thrust our ideals upon the youth...its not enough to hope that the libs will lay down their sticks and stones and walk away..truly sad, for I believe that most conservatives would be satisfied not having to be proactive...regarding thrusting agenda upon our youth...its tuff enough growing up for these kids...so be it...master to arms! I am printing this article and distributing it to all of my sons friends, as well as 10 neigbors...do the same...

Freedom First...

147 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:48:30 PDT by oneway
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To: purple haze

The relevant feature of both groups is a sexual preference for males. And since boy scouts are male, etc., etc.

You misunderstand. The "relevant feature" is that Boy Scouting requires that a man be "morally straight." That includes scout leaders.

I understand your mistake, here, but you need to backtrack on your base assumptions. The assumption is NOT that leaders shouldn't be potentially "attracted" to those under their charge, but rather that they should represent morality, including sexual morality, to those charges.

Though you'd never know it from hearing the mainstream media, most Americans believe that homosexuality is morally wrong. Even the majority of those who believe it "can't be helped," that it isn't a personal choice, believe the practice is immoral and antithetical to traditional family values.

Having an acknowledge homosexual as the head of a scout troop is patently ridiculous in that case. You might as well say that pimps and gigolos might also apply.

Now, that said, it is true that homosexual men are represent FAR greater risk to boys than heterosexual women; that is simply a fact of statistics.

But that fact isn't the reason that homosexuals are proscribed as leaders or even members of the Scouts. It is an issue of morality, first and foremost.

148 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:48:46 PDT by Illbay
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To: garbanzo

Are prisoners who rape other men in prison homosexual?

Yes.  Or, bisexual -- which is homosexual part of the time.

You simply want us to draw some kind of non-existent distinction between "gays" and those who commit homosexual acts with boys.  Sorry, I'm not buying it.  The gay community is saturated with pederasty.  Read any of the writings of Dr. Judith Reisman to understand what I'm saying.  Here's a start:

              Those debating whether homosexuals should be
              scout leaders should take a look at the
              dictionary to help decide whether or not
              homosexuals have an inordinate interest in
              young boys. Or is it really as gay rights leaders
              say -- they just labor in young boys' best
              interests. Let's look it up and see if pederasts
              (men who sexually assault boys) comprise just a
              small cadre within the much larger male
              homosexual population.

              The dictionary I am talking about is not in your
              local library. There, molester may be the only
              word "straights" would think of for men who
              sexually assault boys. No, I am talking about
              "The Queens' Vernacular" (QV), which is
              advertised as, "Everyman's dictionary to the gay
              underworld" and the "current language of a
              very large group of people who are members
              (part or full-time) of the homosexual
              community." In the QV there are 254 words for
              boys, most of these involve men sexually
              abusing boys.

 Rest here...

149 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:49:18 PDT by JCG
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To: EdReform

Bump!

150 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:51:56 PDT by VRW Conspirator
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To: Belial

And every week you turn up as a homosexual defender. Why do you post here?

151 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:53:52 PDT by bribriagain
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To: garbanzo

"What universe do you inhabit? Hang out in a local jr. high or middle school and listen to the conversations. These kids know everything about everything. This isn't the 1950s guy - and even then I suspect kids knew things."

And therein lies one of the greatest reasons to homeschool.

If you've realized that and still send your children to those places where they are being indoctrinated as to the "benefits" of homosexuality, then you are as big a threat to the stability of our society than the homosexuals and pedophiles, as you are furthering their agenda through your children having to be taught that trash.

152 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:54:09 PDT by A2J
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To: Dianna

I've read that 70-odd% of sexual assaults on boys are committed by heterosexual men. (An FBI stat, I think.)

Maybe 70% of FBI men are homosexual?

No openly gay men in the Boy Scouts.....period!

No N.O.W.\lesbian\hillaryites\ in the Girl Scouts....period!

When it comes to the children of America, this kind of political correctness indoctrination should be(to use a quote from a N.O.W. rep.) "burned at the stake"!

153 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:54:15 PDT by RckyRaCoCo
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To: ehat

(FYI, the majority of pedophiles are heterosexual-American)

Do a little statistical analysis, though, and you'll see that your statement is misleading.

A significant number of crimes involving paedophilia are homosexual in nature. True, not the majority, but a significant number.

When you set that against the fact that no more than 2% of the population--some say less--is homosexual, the truth begins to emerge.

If 15% of these crimes are perpetrated by a population that in total represents only 2%, what does that tell you?

154 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:54:17 PDT by Illbay
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To: truthsetsfree

Jury selection for his trial was scheduled to begin Monday in Northampton, where the trial was moved out of concern he wouldn't get an impartial jury close to home

So much for getting a jury of his piers.....

155 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:54:48 PDT by Go Gordon
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To: Belial

get thee gone, you of questionable gender.

156 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:55:28 PDT by bribriagain
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To: JCG

You're using a "private" dictionary, i.e. redefining words to suit your usage. Tell a prisoner who rapes a man he's gay and your dentist will be happy man, if not the local mortician.

As for the "gay dictionary" how many heterosexual men have refered to adult females as "girls"? When a man talks about his "girlfriend" is he secretly harboring pedophiliac desires? Also look up the word "humor" in the dictionary.

157 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:57:22 PDT by garbanzo
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To: Dianna

Once a man chooses penile genitals to fondle and gain sexual pleasure from he is forever an MSM [men who have sex with men].

Statistics will forever include him and those like him that choose boys genitals and men's anuses for their willful abuse.

 

 

MSM Denied blood donation

MSM and syphilis

A quick read through this African situation will give you some answers

MSM resurgent infections

Hepatitis and MSM

MSM and Gonorrhea

MSM and the UN

 

158 Posted on 07/08/2001 20:59:04 PDT by porgygirl (porgy@tampabay.rr.com)
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To: A2J

None of this is from "indoctrination" - Did you not have friends growing up? Did you not talk about sex? Did you not taunt each other with homophobic put-downs? Are you from this planet?

159 Posted on 07/08/2001 21:00:17 PDT by garbanzo
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To: Judge Parker

"When I was a Boy Scout in the 50's, sometimes we didn't even have one adult with us."

Ditto.

We had an Explorer 'advisor' who was 16 that handled things quite well, but that was in 1957; we've "evolved" since then ;-)

160 Posted on 07/08/2001 21:01:07 PDT by editor-surveyor
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To: bribriagain

"get thee gone, you of questionable gender."

LOL!

 

161 Posted on 07/08/2001 21:05:21 PDT by A2J
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To: garbanzo

"Are you from this planet?"

Yes. Are you?

162 Posted on 07/08/2001 21:06:32 PDT by A2J
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To: vox1138

Didn't ol' Nikita say that the U.S. would be conquered by the Communists without firing one shot?

163 Posted on 07/08/2001 21:08:46 PDT by 3catsanadog
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To: Belial

Says who???

164 Posted on 07/08/2001 21:09:43 PDT by 3catsanadog
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To: garbanzo

"When a man talks about his 'girlfriend' is he secretly harboring pedophiliac desires?"

You are really starting to scare me, garbanzo.

165 Posted on 07/08/2001 21:10:08 PDT by A2J
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To: garbanzo

You're using a "private" dictionary, i.e. redefining words to suit your usage

It's no dictionary of mine.  It's theirs -- and it contains 254 terms for boys.   You mention hetero men calling females girls.  Can you produce a hetero dictionary that has 254 terms for girls?

As to the prisoners raping prisoners of the same sex.  I don't care what they like to be called, if they are men and they have sex with men they are homosexuals or bisexuals.

Quit trying to provide cover for the fact that the gay community is awash in pederasty.   I'm downright humorless when somebody does that.

166 Posted on 07/08/2001 21:10:55 PDT by JCG
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To: All

The contention that the heterosexual population leads the league in pedophiles, would be funny until one realizes homophiles not only spout such nonsense but believe it.Even Kinsey reported any man who chooses a boy over a girl for sex is by willful choice a homosexual. 0 6 pt 6 pt 0

The contention that the heterosexual population leads the league in pedophiles, would be funny until one realizes homophiles not only spout such nonsense but believe it.

 

It is one of those feeble attempts on the part of MSM to make themselves seem less depraved.

 

No source is ever offered or link provided to back up the raucous claim. MSM population is about 2% of the population , no doubt more child molestations on record are the action of the 98% of the population.However the proportion of molestations on record by MSM are astronomical for such a minute group.Even worse is the astounding fraction of disease transmission by this miniscule minority of the population.

 

Men who molest boys are a subset of MSM [men who have sex with men] according to the Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta.

 

They are the highest risk group in America for the transmission of STD's including HIV, anal cancer, oral gonohrrea, etc.

 

Their use of condoms is only 1/3 more safe than unprotected sex, due to the violence of the sex they engage in.

 

According to the CDC men who molest girls are a subset of heterosexuals. They represent the lowest risk group for the transmission of STD's,HIV, etc.

The odds of transmitting a disease for MSM vs hetereosexuals, and other facts concerning MSM is shown below.

 

CDC Report <http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/pubs/mmwr011400fs.pdf>

 

In a six-city study of HIV incidence among over 96,000 clients of STD clinics between 1991 and 1997, researchers found that approximately 8% of gay and bisexual men were infected per year a level 17 times higher than that found among heterosexuals seen in the same clinics.

Although gay men have made significant strides in reducing high- risk behavior and HIV infection rates in some communities, researchers estimate that men who have sex with men (MSM) still account for 40% of the overall 40,000 new HIV infections in the U.S. each year, and for 60% of all new HIV infections among men.

 

Additionally, an increasingly diverse population of gay and bisexual men is impacted. The epidemic, which began primarily among white gay men, is now dramatically affecting gay and bisexual men of all races.

 

There are currently an estimated 325,000-475,000 gay and bisexual men living with HIV in the U.S.

 

As of December 1998, 135,000 of these were living with AIDS.

 

An estimated 356,000 AIDS cases have been diagnosed among MSM since the beginning of the epidemic through June 1999, and nearly 221,000 have died.

 

As new infections continue to occur, and more infected people are living longer, healthier, and sexually active lives, the total number of HIV-infected individuals (HIV prevalence) continues to grow. The result: a greater need for HIV prevention and treatment services than ever before.

AIDS incidence reported among MSM declined 22% from 1996 to 1997 (from 26,068 cases to 20,464 cases). This decline slowed to an 12% decline from 1997 to 1998(from 20,464 cases to 18,153 cases). HIV- related deaths among MSM declined 49% from 1996 to 1997 (from 16,436 deaths to 8,401 deaths), and also slowed with a 23% decline from 1997 to 1998 (from 8,401 deaths to 6,467 deaths).

 

The slowing in the decline of AIDS incidence and deaths can most likely be attributed to a combination of factors, including: having already reached most individuals who know they are infected with HIV and are susceptible to treatment, in addition to treatment failure caused by difficulty with adherence to drug regimens.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

41% of young gay men in the study had engaged in unprotected anal intercourse in the past six months.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Super infection.

 

MSM being advised it is OK to have sex with another HIV infected parnter take heed.

Targeting positive men is crucial because they are at risk themselves. Until last week, no one had proven that humans could be "superinfected," the scientific term for contracting a second strain on top of an established HIV infection. But Canadian researchers reported that in late 1997 "Patient A," who had been living symptom-free for almost a decade, suddenly saw the amount of virus in his blood shoot up and his immune system deteriorate. His doctor placed him on anti-HIV drugs, but they had almost no effect. That is almost unheard-of for someone like Patient A, who had never taken such medications and whose virus therefore should not have been drug resistant. Curious, the doctor discovered that the patient had recently entered into a relationship with "Patient B," who had taken many different HIV drugs, making his virus resistant to most of them. Patient B happened to go to the same clinic, so researchers compared their viruses. Before the relationship, Patient A's virus was genetically very distinct, but after the relationship it was strikingly similar, including shared mutations for drug resistance.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Condoms and oral sex.

 

Study: Is 'Safe Sex' Really Safe?

 

In the first mathematical risk assessment of HIV infection, the San Francisco Department of Health's study of 1,583 men "suggests that AIDS remains a difficult disease to contract but that steps taken by some men to lower their risk are not as effective as some have hoped," the San Francisco Chronicle reports. When an uninfected partner engages in unprotected receptive anal course with an HIV-positive partner, "chances are one in 120 that he will become infected." However, oral sex, widely considered "safe," poses a one-in-2,500 chance that HIV-infected semen will transmit the disease.

 

Even condom use poses risks, as only half of the 49 men in the study group who contracted HIV reported "having unprotected sex with a partner who was either HIV positive or not known to be uninfected." Even more "provocative" was the study's finding that men who engaged in receptive anal intercourse with an HIV- positive partner and used condoms "were only one-third less likely to contract the virus than those who used no condoms at all."

 

Susan Buchbinder, the report's senior author, said, "The data tell us that, when you have receptive anal intercourse, you are at greater risk, regardless of whether you reported using a condom." She said of the risks associated with oral sex, "We're not talking thousands of times less risky. We're talking about 10 times less risky." Dan Wohlfeiler, a researcher at the University of California-Berkeley School of Public Health, said, "We've always said that oral sex is lower risk but not risk-free. The odds may be one in 2,000 but if you have 10,000 going on at any one time, someone is going to draw that unlucky card."

 

San Francisco Chronicle

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Syphilis

 

Syphilis Cases Jump Among Gay Men in Philadelphia

 

After years of decline, the proportion of syphilis cases reported in Philadelphia among men who have sex with men has risen dramatically from less than one percent in 1995 to over 36 percent so far in 1999. The frightening increase is linked by analysts to the growing belief among many gay men, especially those who are younger, that the risk of HIV infection has been reduced and that having unprotected sex is no longer as dangerous as it once was. More than 60 percent of the men who contracted syphilis were also HIV-positive.

We The People Living with AIDS/HIV of the Delaware Valley, Inc. FASTFAX #242, 8/13/99

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

If the thought of being infected by the AIDS virus by a single act [vaginal sex with an infected partner] that has a 7 in 10,000 [.07%] , and a 7 in 5,000,000 for a single heterosexual act [status unknown ] is scary, imagine being an MSM, and being faced by an epidemic illness that is 100% fatal, and, half of all 18 year olds in your classification will be infected before they reach age 30, and, a 1 in 4 chance of transmission for unprotected sex with an known infected partner, and a 1 in 500 chance for unprotected sex with an unknown status partner.

Looking at those risk numbers, anyone who engages in the behavior, can in no way be absolved from purposeful transmission of the virus.

 

Source:

 

Homosexuality and the politics of truth.

Dr. Jeffrey Satinover.

pp 56 -58

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

In 1998 MSM transmitted 17,626 new cases of HIV.[For all intents and purposes killing those men] Murder by HIV.

 

Early on in the AIDS epidemic one might say transmission is not necessarily murder, but by 1998, MSM had transmitted 365,000 cases, think it's time they figured out where it's coming from. And, if they have found out where it's coming from, than it's Murder One, premeditated.

 

CDC Report <http://www.cdc.gov/nchstp/hiv_aids/stats/hasr1002.pdf>

 

In 1998 a total of 14,008 cases of murder were reported [all means].

In 1998 a total of 7,361 murders were reported committed with handguns.

 

FBI Report <http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/Cius_98/98crime/98cius07.pdf>

 

In May, AIDS Policy and Law published a round-up of current or planned legislation in the USA, noting that:

A 1994 Tennessee law makes it a Class C felony to knowingly expose another person to HIV, whether or not the victim contracts the virus.

 

Legislation that went into effect in Florida this October "...makes it a third-degree felony to expose another person to HIV through sexual intercourse, even if the virus is not transmitted"

Louisiana already has similar legislation, which was recently upheld by an appeals court

In Missouri, a bill awaiting the governor's signature makes it a felony to expose others to HIV without their consent through sexual intercourse or needle sharing

Kentucky Law- HIV Transmission - It is currently a felony to knowingly expose another person to HIV under Kentucky law.

 

Gay rights groups and the ACLU fought every one of these bills, they succeeded in defeating the bill in Virginia.Of course they would be the group opposed to consequences for murderous behavior.

 

Bill to Criminalize HIV Exposure Defeated By Virginia Legislation

 

A bill to criminalize unconsensual HIV-exposure was defeated in the Virginia legislature last week. House Bill 296 sought to create a crime called "infected sexual battery" and make it a felony for people with HIV to have sex before informing their partners of their HIV status and receiving consent to have sex. The House Committee for Courts of Justice amended the penalty down from a felony charge to a misdemeanor, and the bill passed the full House 96 to 3. But the Senate Courts of Justice committee voted unanimously Wednesday, February 17, against considering the bill, thus defeating it. The bill was opposed by AIDS activists.

The Washington Blade, 2/19/99

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

http://www.aidslaw.ca/Newsletter/July1996/08oregone.html

 

http://www.sltrib.com/1998/sep/09091998/nation_w/51668.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Behavior..........................MSM.........Heterosexual men

Avg # of partners lifetime..........50 (note)~.........4

Monogamous*..........................< 2................83

Avg # of partners, 12 mos.............8...............1.2

Anal intercourse last 12 mos..........65 %.............9.5 %

HIV transmission likelihood..........1/165.or 6%

...........................................................7/5,000,000 or .00014%%

~43% have 500 partners.

28% have more than 1000.

79% have 50% of partners that are strangers.

More than half are one nite stands.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

When gay rights activists concede to the health facts regarding their lifestyle they argue that homosexuals simply need to be taught how to perform their sex acts safely. However, despite innumerable education efforts, the homosexual male population remains plagued by disease. For a few years, activists had some statistics to back up this philosophy as rates of gonorrhea and syphilis dropped after education efforts. However, homosexuals, even after receiving education, did not sustain their "safe" activities for very long. A study conducted in Amsterdam and another study conducted in Washington state found a drop in gonorrhea and syphilis for several years in the 1980s. In both studies, that trend was followed by a marked increase in the rate of these diseases in the homosexual population, while the rate in the heterosexual population continued to fall.

 

The relapse into "risky" behavior has been documented in relation to other STDs as well, including HIV. One study published in the British Journal of Medicine stated, "This study provides evidence of continuing unsafe sexual behavior among homosexual or bisexual men infected with HIV-1 attending genitourinary medicine clinics." The study further pointed out, This is consistent with other data indicating an increase in the incidence of sexually transmitted diseases, including HIV, within the male homosexual or bisexual community in England and Wales.

 

While it appears clear that homosexual men have a difficult time sustaining "safe" sexual behavior, the inevitable question is why? Medical and psychological experts have developed several explanations. Some homosexual men believe that once they have established a monogamous relationship, they aren't at risk. The American Journal of Public Health published a study in 1990 that found, "Being in a monogamous gay relationship was associated with higher risk sex throughout the entire study."

 

Another theory is that the few years of decline in the rates of HIV and other STD infections have led homosexual men to let down their guard. The Journal of the American Medical Association reported, "Because of declining incidence of STD and human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) infections, some homosexually active men may have relaxed behaviors regarding sexual safety."

 

A journal known as Sexually Transmitted Diseases developed a more psychological explanation. Dr. Edward W. Hook III wrote, "After all, if higher risk behaviors for HIV/STD remain desirable albeit dangerous for some, their status as 'forbidden fruit' might paradoxically serve as a stimulus rather than a deterrent to those practices." In other words, the very fact that these behaviors are dangerous may make them all the more titillating.

 

The simple ineffectiveness of condoms likely also contributed to the spread of disease. A study published in Social Science and Medicine found that the rate of condom effectiveness in protecting against HIV infection is only 69 percent. The study noted, "Thus, efficacy may be much lower than commonly assumed ..."

 

CDC Report <http://www.cdc.gov/nchstp/hiv_aids/pubs/facts/hivrepfs.htm>

 

1998

 

Men who have sex with men (MSM)

 

The highest HIV infection prevalence rates among populations at risk for HIV nationwide were found among MSM attending sexually transmitted disease (STD) clinics. The median prevalence rate in these clinics was 19.3%.

 

MSM represented the largest proportion (60%) of men diagnosed with AIDS in 1997.

From 1996 to 1997, AIDS incidence among MSM declined 18% and deaths declined 49%.

 

Injecting drug users (IDUs)

 

Prevalence in IDUs varies by geographic region; the highest prevalence rates in surveyed drug treatment centers were in the Northeast, the South, and Puerto Rico.

AIDS incidence and deaths among IDUs declined 15% and 45%, respectively, among men and 12% and 33% among women.

 

IDUs diagnosed with AIDS represented 24% of AIDS cases in men and 47% of those in women in 1997.

 

Women

 

HIV prevalence among women tested in STD clinics varies geographically in a pattern that reflects the prevalence rates among IDUs.

From 1996 to 1997, AIDS incidence and deaths declined 8% and 32%, respectively, among women.

 

Children

 

From 1996 to 1997, the number of children (under 13 years of age) who were diagnosed with AIDS declined 40%, principally reflecting the continued success of efforts to reduce perinatal transmission through promoting voluntary HIV testing and zidovudine therapy for pregnant HIV-infected women and their infants.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In 1998, case reporting data indicated a reversal in the annual decreases that had been observed in preceding years.

 

In 1998, 355,642 cases of gonorrhea were reported in the United States.

Following the introduction of a national control program in the mid-1970s, the overall rate of gonorrhea has declined 72% since 1975.

 

However, between 1997 and 1998 the rate increased by 8.9% from 122.0 cases per 100,000 persons to 132.9

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Gonorrhea is important due to the great enhancement of HIV incubation and transmission it provides.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

CDC Report <http://www.cdc.gov/nchstp/dstd/Stats_Trends/1998Surveillance/98P DF/Section3.pdf>

 

The gonorrhea rate in women increased from 119.0 per 100,000 in 1997 to 131.5 in 1998, and the gonorrhea rate in men also increased from 124.9 in 1997 to 133.7 in 1998.

 

The proportion of isolates coming from MSM increased from 4.0% in 1988 to 12.0% in 1998, the percentage of cases that were in MSM in 1998 ranged from 13.0% to 62.5%, with a median of 24.7%. The increase in MSM with gonorrhea in GISP accelerated after 1993.

 

< a href="http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu/social/mmw_reports/2098.4022.html">

 

MMWR Report

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Syphilis cases increased steadily from late 1997 to mid-1998, appeared to stabilize in the second half of 1998, then increased during January-June 1999 (Figure 1). The proportion of cases in MSM increased from 21% (four of 19) in 1997 to 85% (75 of 88) in 1998 and 1999 (pless than 0.01). Among 79 MSM, the median age was 35 years (range: 19-56 years) and 70% were aged greater than 30 years. Primary, secondary, and early latent infection accounted for 23%, 61%, and 16% of cases in MSM, respectively; these proportions did not differ significantly from 1997 to 1999. Among the 79 MSM with early latent syphilis in 1997 through June 1999, 48 (72%) of 67 had human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) infection and two others were HIV seropositive near the time syphilis was diagnosed.

 

 Figure One <http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu/social/mmw_reports/2098.4411.html>

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Life Expectancy <http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu/ads/9707/97071607.html>

 

Reuters

 

A mortality analysis of homosexual males indicates that gay men in Vancouver, British Columbia, have a life expectancy eight to 20 years shorter than non-gay men in the same area. The researchers note in the International Journal of Epidemiology that if the trend continues, "we estimate that nearly half of gay and bisexual men currently aged 20 years will not reach their 65th birthday." The study was led by Dr. Robert S. Hogg, whose group collected vital statistics from 1987 to 1992 and assessed mortality rates based on 3 percent, 6 percent, and 9 percent prevalence rates of homosexual and bisexual men. "Under even the most liberal assumptions, gay and bisexual men in this urban center are now experiencing a life expectancy similar to that experienced by all men in Canada in the year 1871," Hogg said.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

 

167 Posted on 07/08/2001 21:13:22 PDT by porgygirl (porgy@tampabay.rr.com)
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To: L.N. Smithee

On another topic on FR, someone posted the statistics of molestation by heteros & homos. As far as incidence goes, heterosexuals commit the most molestations of children; however, as a percentage of their total popluation, homosexuals commit most.

168 Posted on 07/08/2001 21:14:06 PDT by 3catsanadog
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To: Belial

 

Child molestation is also more mainstream in the Christian ministry than most other professions.

Utter rot, patent horseshit made up out of whole cloth to bolster your bizarre argument.

169 Posted on 07/08/2001 21:17:12 PDT by Imbe
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To: mommadooo3

But I get the impression this somehow occurred in the course of human history. That God's wrath no longer rained down immediately now that "indwelling" was a phenomenon.

How can that be?

How could a just God be wrathful and punish human beings with no conscience or "indwelling" of His law or the Holy Spirit which raised them above the level of big-brained animals?

170 Posted on 07/08/2001 21:17:56 PDT by Askel5
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To: purple haze

No need to strap on your asbestos with me, PHaze...

I concur with your consistency, and there have been a few high profile cases of pedophilia with adult women being the perpetrators, and immature males the prey. When the hubbub of them die down, a startling and unjust fact becomes crystal clear, to wit the amount of prison time they draw, if any is far below that given to a male convicted of the same crime...

the infowarrior

171 Posted on 07/08/2001 21:20:59 PDT by infowarrior
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To: JCG

Other than the fact that it isn't. It'd be really nice if some of you actually knew real live gay people and stopped getting all your info on gays from the 700 Club, which is why the public at large is ignoring the social conservatives' palpitations on this issue.

172 Posted on 07/08/2001 21:20:59 PDT by garbanzo
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To: DAnconia55

 

Violations of rights is all that matters.

That one dimensional LP mantra. Except the LP says abortion is your private affair as is your deviant sexual behavior, AND they have this really squishy definition of children's rights that makes "consensual" pedophilia almost a matter of opinion, sorta like their take on abortion.

173 Posted on 07/08/2001 21:22:00 PDT by Imbe
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To: garbanzo

"The reason why I bring it up is that there is no test for homosexuality..."

Do you ever post anything that makes sense?

The 'test' for homosexuality is simple:

Do you imitate the sex act with members of your same sex; yes or no?

Do you fantasize about sexual encounters with members of your sex; yes, or no?

174 Posted on 07/08/2001 21:26:06 PDT by editor-surveyor
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To: garbanzo

It'd be really nice if some of you actually knew real live gay people..."

"Know" as in the Biblical sense?

No thanks, I'll leave that up to you so you can fulfill your sick fantasies.

175 Posted on 07/08/2001 21:31:06 PDT by A2J
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To: All

And the turn left regulars distinguished themselves with ad hominem attack and demonstrated extraordinary lack of understanding of the subject of the post Rick Alger Normal user 2 52 2001-07-09T04:18:00Z 2001-07-09T04:18:00Z 8 2886 16451 137 32 20202 9.2720 0 0

 The intolerance, fear, and closeminded approach to faith and religion makes most homophile responses begin with a shallow approach.

 

  MSM behavior  is a depraved, dangerous, and disordered action, which kills half of it’s young before they are age 30.That alone should be reason to stop the fatal behavior.

 

Try to keep orientation and action separate in your mind as you peruse the analysis, reports, and facts concerning MSM.

 

Try your best not to use the sophomoric touch passes about AIDS being a worldwide heterosexual disease. That old liberal saw don’t play. The number of prostitutes in Botswana that have HIV has nothing at all to do with the 30% of black teenage MSM that are infected in New York City.

 

Besides it is becoming quite clear that MSM in Africa have no gay pride, and lie about their  behavior. They state that if they are the insertive partner with another man they are not homosexual. Consequently, it is not clear at all that even in Africa MSM behavior is not the leading risk factor.

 

UNAIDS REPORT

 

 Stick to the problem here in the USA. Also, try not to use the feeble, not all MSM are promiscuous, engage in anal sex or ride bareback. Look at the charts, they show clearly the lionshare of MSM are promiscuous, do engage in anal sex, and go unprotected, by their own admission.

 

No direct harm results from MSM orientation, however, when orientation becomes engagement in MSM behavior the results have deleterious effects on those who make the willful choice to engage in sodomy., and to the population at large.

While certainly every MSM who engages in sodomous sex will not be subject to the direct harm described below, and while homophiles continue to use the argument that the harms below occur equally in heterosexual sexual contact, those harms present  in populations other than MSM are in fact minute and are the exception not the rule.[see the CDC charts]

Many direct harms as a result of the choice for the MSM behavior are not statistically kept, such as family banishment, depression, psychological breakdown, and excommunication or resignation of one's religious connection [necessary in order to fully embrace the MSM lifestyle].

The data and sources below make the distinction very clear, these are harms directly affecting MSM.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Unique direct harm to those who willfully engage in MSM behavior.

Shortens life expectancy.

SHORTENED LIFE

http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu/ads/9707/97071607.html

A mortality analysis of homosexual males indicates that MSM in Vancouver, British Columbia, have a life expectancy eight to 20 years shorter than non-MSM in the same area. "we estimate that nearly half of MSM and the MSM subgroup, bisexual men currently aged 20 years will not reach their 65th birthday."
 "Under even the most liberal assumptions, MSM and the MSM subgroup bisexual men in this urban center are now experiencing a life expectancy similar to that experienced by all men in Canada in the year 1871," 

Increases liklihood of deliberate HIV transmission, thereby shortening life expectancy.

http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~eking/features/delibrte.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Remains the highest risk group in America for the HIV virus, and reduces the MSM population at an inordinate rate.

One half of the MSM who are now 18 years old will be infected by the time they turn 30.

http://www.thebody.com/bp/feb98/counting.html

Men who have sex with
men (MSM) still account for 47% of the overall 40,000 new HIV infections in the U.S.each year, and for 60% of all new HIV infections among men.

Additionally, an increasingly diverse population of MSM and the MSM subgroup ,bisexual men, is impacted. The epidemic,
which began primarily among white MSM men, is now dramatically affecting MSM and the MSM subgroup , bisexual men,  of all races.
There are currently an estimated 325,000-475,000 MSM and the MSM subgroup , bisexual men, living with HIV in the U.S. As of December 1998, 135,000 of these were living with AIDS. An
estimated 356,000 AIDS cases have been diagnosed among MSM since the beginning of the epidemic through June 1999, and nearly 221,000 have died.

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/pubs/mmwr011400fs.pdf

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Remains the highest risk group in America for anal cancer.

Anal cancer is very similar to cervical cancer in women, and takes the form of tumors or lesions that appear in the anal canal. Studies now show that the rates of anal cancer are much higher in  men who have sex with men (MSM) with HIV. Eight of every 100,000 women will get cervical cancer. Compare this to the numbers for men who have sex with men: 35 of every 100,000 will develop anal cancer. (The risk in the general population is 0.9 per 100,000.)

http://www.thebody.com/step/retro99/anal_cancer.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Remains the highest risk group in America for super infection.

http://www.thebody.com/step/retro2000/march4.html

In the study, Patient A met Patient B in 1997 and they began having a relationship. This relationship included unprotected sexual intercourse since both of them were already HIV positive. During the course of their relationship, Patient A -- whose HIV had been non-progressive for several years -- suddenly experienced a rapid decline in CD4 counts and a dramatic increase in viral load. Following initiation of HAART, which included a protease inhibitor, Patient A failed to respond to treatment.

Blood samples were taken from both Patients A and B. The samples were then compared to determine if Patient A had been infected with a super-resistant strain of HIV from patient B. A phylogenetic analysis of the blood samples identified a positive correlation between the point mutations in the virus in both Patient A and B,

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Remain the highest risk group to contract HIV by oral sex.

http://www.aegis.com/news/wb/2000/wb000202.html

The University of California-San Francisco and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, indicated that 8 percent of 102 cases of HIV infection among MSM and the MSM subgroup, bisexual, men were "likely" due to receptive oral sex without a condom.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A host of enteric infections that are common in MSM.

http://www.aegis.com/pubs/aidsline/1986/may/m8650108.html

The highest risk group for condom failure.

http://www.aegis.com/pubs/aidsline/1990/sep/m9091962.html

The highest risk group to contract gonorrhea and syphilis, Hepatitis and a host of throat infections and maladies.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Indirect harm

MSM by sheer status provide little if any indirect harm to the public around them, perhaps another poster may find some.

However certain willful behavior that is unique to MSM, such as having unprotected sex with men, and then with women, has provided the bridge for transmitting endemic disease to the general public.

http://www.mb.com.ph/scty/2000%2D07/sc073004.asp

By multiple exposure MSM spread 100% preventable disease such as the HIV virus and other STD's.

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/stats/hasr1201/table18.htm

Gonorrhea and syphilis.

http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu/social/mmw_reports/2098.4022.html

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/stats/hasr1201/table18.htm

Unique maladies such as anal cancer.

http://www.thebody.com/step/retro99/anal_cancer.html

 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As each MSM willfully infects another or a bisexual MSM a woman with the 100% preventable disease, this adds to the already burgeoning rolls of infected MSM, they infringe on the rights of taxpayers who must pay for their health services.

The economic cost of the HIV/AIDS epidemic is enormous. The average cost of protease inhibitors for one year $12,000. The annual cost of care for a person with a CD4+ count of 50 to 200 is $9,000, and that average cost goes up to $25,000 once a person's CD4+ count falls below 50. The average lifetime cost of caring for one AIDS patient is over $100,000. 

As the epidemic affects more persons who are in lower income and disadvantaged communities, a smaller proportion will be financially self-sufficient or insured, increasing the cost to taxpayers.

Even for persons with insurance, there may be treatments which are not covered or upper limits on lifetime expenditures for care.

There will also be a loss of earnings due to disability. This imposes a financial cost not only to the patient, but to society at large as well, when individuals can no longer perform productive work.

Average cost to care for MSM who willfully infect each other with 100% preventable disease is conservatively $300,000.

http://www.hsbchurch.org/homo4.gif

Unique disease like anal cancer and inflammatory bowel disease  add to the medical services and costs burden.

http://www.iol.ie/~alank/CROHNS/RESEARCH/MISC/cost.htm

As the AIDS epidemiccontinues, it will place severe costs on the economy.

1. A lower labor force

2. Lower labor productivity through absenteeism and illness.

3. Cost pressures for companies through higher benefit payments and replacement costs.

4. Lower labor income, as employees bear some of the AIDS-related costs

5. Lower population translating into lower expenditure.

6. Increased private sector demand for health services.

7. Higher government expenditure on health services.

Rising expenditure on healthcare will not only put pressure on the fiscus, but also on households and companies. Overall household demand will be dampened and reprioritised and household savings squeezed.

Absenteeism, productivity losses and higher costs for training skilled personnel will place an additional burden on companies.

Some of the higher costs will be passed on to the consumer via higher prices, but some will be absorbed in the companies operating surplus and may well come out of corporate savings.

GDP will be lower under the AIDS scenario than the no-AIDS scenario.

Price pressure will pick up and with it pressure on interest rates.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The MSM activist behavior is an entirely separate subject for another day.

Infringing on Freedom of Religion, through the schools, the Boy Scouts and Corporate America.

 

http://www.nap.edu/books/0309046289/html/index.html

 

Just how much more risky is MSM sex than any other behavior.

2%-3% of the male population is responsible for 53% of all HIV cases [70% of all male infections], and the lionshare of other STD's, and solely responsible for many MSM unique disease such as anal cancer and inflammatory bowel disease, gonorrhea of the throat, and strains of hepatitis.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Factors contributing to the higher odds of MSM transmission of disease are:

Avg # of partners lifetime, [Ratio = 12:1] MSM on average have 12 times the lifetime partners as heterosexuals.

MSM = 50~ average.

 ~43% have 500 partners, 28% have more than 1000. 79% have 50%of partners that are strangers. More than half are one nite stands.

Heterosexuals =  4 average.

Monogamous [Ratio 41:1] Heterosexual are 41 times more prone to monogamy.

MSM = < 2

Hetero = 83
 
 26% of heteros have one lifetime partner.
 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Anal intercourse last 12 mos:  [Ratio  13:1] MSM are 13 times more prone to anal intercourse.

MSM = 65 %

Heterosexual = 9.5 %

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Homosexual desire is no more intrinsically problematic than any other desire, therefore the behavior is primarily chosen.

Individuals who have this condition continue the behavior in spite of the destructive consequences. Although some perceive the behavior as a problem, and wish they could rid themselves of it, many others deny the behavior as a problem and resist all attempts to "help" them.
Those people who suffer from the condition and resist help tend to socialize with one another [cultlike], exclusively and form a subculture.Once the subculture is formed, denial of consequences is easier and more widespread within the cult.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 References

1. Karlen A. SEXUALITY And HOMOSEXUALITY. NY Norton.

2. Pines B. BACK TO BASICS. NY Morrow p. 211.

3. Weinberg G. SOCIETY AND THE HEALTHY HOMOSEXUAL. NY St. Martin's

MSM Activity...........%

Percentage of MSM that engage in each activity.

oral/penile.......100/99


anal/penile.......93/98


oral/anal.........92



urine sex.........29


fisting/toys......41/47


fecal sex-eating..8


enemas...........11


torture sex......37


public/orgy sex..76


sex with minors..23

ORAL SEX

MSM fellate almost all of their sexual contacts (and ingest semen from about half of these). Semen contains many of the germs carried in the blood. Because of this, MSM who practice oral sex verge on consuming raw human blood, with all its medical risks. Since the penis often has tiny lesions (and often will have been in unsanitary places such as a rectum), individuals so involved may become infected with hepatitis A or gonorrhea (and even HIV and hepatitis B & C). Since many contacts occur between strangers (70% of MSM estimated that they had had sex only once with over half of their partners ), and MSM average somewhere between 106 and 1105 different partners/year, the potential for infection is considerable.

RECTAL SEX Surveys indicate that about 90% of  MSM engaged in rectal intercourse, and about two-thirds do it regularly. In a 6-month long study of daily sexual diaries,3 MSM engaged 10 sex partners and 68 rectal encounters a year.

Rectal sex is dangerous.

During rectal intercourse the rectum becomes a mixing bowl for

1) saliva and its germs and/or an artificial lubricant

2) the recipient's own feces

3) whatever germs, infections or substances the penis has on it

4) the seminal fluid of the inserter. Since sperm readily penetrate the rectal wall (which is only one cell thick) causing immunologic damage, and tearing or bruising of the anal wall is very common during anal/penile sex, these substances gain almost direct access to the blood stream. Unlike heterosexual intercourse (in which sperm cannot penetrate the multilayered vagina and no feces are present)Rectal intercourse is probably the most sexually efficient way to spread hepatitis B & C, HIV syphilis and a host of other blood-borne diseases.

Tearing or ripping of the anal wall is especially likely with "fisting," where the hand and arm is inserted into the rectum. It is also common when "toys" are employed (homosexual lingo for objects which are inserted into the rectum--bottles, carrots, even gerbils). The risk of contamination and/or having to wear a colostomy bag from such "sport" is very real. Fisting was apparently so rare in Kinsey's time that he didn't think to talk about it. By 1977, well over a third of  MSM admitted to doing it. The rectum was not designed to accommodate the fist, and those who do so can find themselves consigned to diapers for life.

 

FECAL SEX

 About 80% of  MSM admit to licking and/or inserting their tongues into the anus of partners and thus ingesting medically significant amounts of feces. Those who eat or wallow in it are probably at even greater risk. In the diary study,70% of the MSM had engaged in this activity--half regularly over 6 months. Result? --the "annual incidence of hepatitis A in...homosexual men was 22 percent, whereas no heterosexual men acquired hepatitis A." In 1992, it was noted that the proportion of London MSM engaging in oral/anal sex had not declined since 1984.

While the body has defenses against fecal germs, exposure to the fecal discharge of dozens of strangers each year is extremely unhealthy. Ingestion of human waste is the major route of contracting hepatitis A and the enteric parasites collectively known as the Gay Bowel Syndrome. Consumption of feces has also been implicated in the transmission of typhoid fever,herpes, and cancer. About 10% of  MSM have eaten or played with [e.g., enemas, wallowing in feces]. The San Francisco Department of Public Health saw 75,000 patients per year, of whom 70 to 80 per cent are homosexual men....An average of 10 per cent of all patients and asymptomatic contacts reported...because of positive fecal samples or cultures for amoeba, giardia, and shigella infections were employed as food handlers in public establishments; almost 5 per cent of those with hepatitis A were similarly employed." In 1976, a rare airborne scarlet fever broke out among MSM and just missed sweeping through San Francisco. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control reported that 29% of the hepatitis A cases in Denver, 66% in New York, 50% in San Francisco, 56% in Toronto, 42% in Montreal and 26% in Melbourne in the first six months of 1991 were among MSM. A 1982 study "suggested that some transmission from the homosexual group to the general population may have occurred."

 

URINE SEX

 

 About 10% of Kinsey's MSM reported having engaged in "golden showers" [drinking or being splashed with urine]. In the largest survey of  MSM ever conducted, 23% admitted to urine-sex. In the largest random survey of MSM,6 29% reported urine-sex. In a San Francisco study of 655 MSM, only 24% claimed to have been monogamous in the past year. Of these monogamous MSM, 5% drank urine, 7% practiced "fisting," 33% ingested feces via anal/oral contact, 53% swallowed semen, and 59% received semen in their rectum during the previous month.

 

OTHER MSM SEX PRACTICES

 

SADOMASOCHISM 

A large minority of  MSM engage in torture for sexual fun. Sex with minors 25% of white MSM admitted to sex with boys 16 or younger as adults. In a 9-state study, 30 33% of the 181 male, and 22% of the 18 female teachers caught molesting students did so homosexually (though less than 3% of men and 2% of women engage in homosexuality). Depending on the study, the percent of MSM reporting sex in public restrooms ranged from 14% to 41% to 66%, 9%, 60% and 67% reported sex in MSM baths; 64% and 90% said that they used illegal drugs.

Fear of AIDS may have reduced the volume of MSM sex partners, but the numbers are prodigious by any standard. Morin reported that 824 MSM had lowered their sex-rate from 70 different partners/yr. in 1982 to 50/yr. by 1984. McKusick reported declines from 76/yr. to 47/yr. in 1985. In Spain the average was 42/yr. in 1989.

 

Medical Consequences of Homosexual Sex


Death and disease accompany promiscuous and unsanitary sexual activity. 70% to 78%x, of MSM reported having had a sexually transmitted disease.

 The proportion with intestinal parasites (worms, flukes, amoeba) ranged from 25% to 39% to 59%. As of 1992, 83% of U.S. AIDS in whites had occurred in MSM.

 

 

 

 

176 Posted on 07/08/2001 21:36:53 PDT by porgygirl (porgy@tampabay.rr.com)
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To: purple haze

If you disagree, it is probably because you think homosexual men are much more likely to be pedophiles than heterosexual women.

No flames from me. You make some good points. And women can be as nasty as men and worse. I'm thinking of Andrea Yates as a cub scout leader. Aaaaaarrrrgghhhh....she could help the kids get their baby drowning badges.

Sorry, it's late, and I'm tired.

177 Posted on 07/08/2001 21:37:41 PDT by PoisedWoman
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To: garbanzo

I've known, hired and socialized with the gay and bi. One thing is certain, they ALL reject the common sexual mores of our culture. That alone makes them inappropriate as guardians of youth. Ask Paula Poundstone.

178 Posted on 07/08/2001 21:39:13 PDT by Imbe
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To: Cultural Jihad

Big bump for your #95!

179 Posted on 07/08/2001 21:45:07 PDT by TheGrimReaper
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To: A2J

I don't know about Northampton, but the only place I know of where he can get a "fair(y)" trial would be San Francisco.

Northhampton is the lesbian capital of the Northeast.

180 Posted on 07/08/2001 21:46:51 PDT by WL-law
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To: ninenot

Oxymoron indeed. CBS has been doing this type of "yellow journalism" for at least the last 30 years. I think I need to have another word with their sponsors.

181 Posted on 07/08/2001 21:48:18 PDT by TheGrimReaper
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To: Brad's Gramma

Let me know if flagging you on this stuff is getting too depressing. Between the government schools and the Scouts we seem to have a pandemic

182 Posted on 07/08/2001 21:48:50 PDT by LarryLied
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To: WL-law

"Northhampton is the lesbian capital of the Northeast."

Then I suppose he'll get a brief sentence and then be sent to a halfway house for "public service."

183 Posted on 07/08/2001 21:49:44 PDT by A2J
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To: Imbe

I don't know about PP. But as for whether or not gays should be around children, that's a decision parents should make. Frankly, not everyone cares for strict Judeo-Christian sexual mores, but again we live in a country which protects religious freedom.

Let me again reiterate that the defensible position (which is taken by the BSA) is that homosexuality is in conflict which the religious values of the Scouts. There doesn't need to be any justification of that principle and social conservatives are shooting themselves in the foot as usual by attempting to make an unnecessary and indefensible point about homosexuals.

184 Posted on 07/08/2001 21:53:24 PDT by garbanzo
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To: Belial

What does this mean? "No current freeper by this name?"

185 Posted on 07/08/2001 21:53:25 PDT by tinlady
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To: editor-surveyor

The 'test' for homosexuality is simple:

Andrew Dice Clay agrees that the test is simple - either you suc* dic* or you do not su*k dic*. Pretty simple

186 Posted on 07/08/2001 21:54:04 PDT by Archie Bunker on steroids
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To: LarryLied

No, Larry, keep on flagging me. It IS sickening. More than you can even imagine....but I thank you from the bottom of my heart for being concerned about me. Folks, please, let's all of us pray for each other's children and grandchildren. We need legions of angels around them at all times protecting them.

God bless all of you kind, caring people here at FR.

187 Posted on 07/08/2001 21:56:47 PDT by Brad's Gramma
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To: Belial

view>source> Webster's 1828 Dictionary

Webster's 1828 Dictionary

Enter word to search for: List words in dictionary

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BE'LIAL, n. As a noun, unprofitableness; wickedness. As an adjective, worthless; wicked. In a collective sense, wicked men.

 

 

[Previous page in the dictionary] [Next page in the dictionary]

Belial is also found in 4 definitions:

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[Return to CTI home page]

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Christian Technologies, Inc
PO BOX 2201, Independence, MO  64055
Phone: 1-800-366-8320  E-Mail: info@christiantech.com

 

�2000 Christian Technologies, Inc

188 Posted on 07/08/2001 22:01:26 PDT by netman
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To: garbanzo

Sexual orientation is different from who you have sex with.

Well, that clears that up. Somewhere Bill Clinton is grinning and giving you the thumbs-up sign.

BTW, what does the term "chickenhawk" mean in the gay culture?

189 Posted on 07/08/2001 22:02:11 PDT by Kevin Curry
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To: tinlady

What does this mean? "No current freeper by this name?"

Apparently Belial was slamming religion in order to show his undying support for sexual perversion.

190 Posted on 07/08/2001 22:04:20 PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: garbanzo

 

There doesn't need to be any justification of that principle...

I agree that one isn't needed, but one exists. Sexual deviants are, by their very nature, unfit gaurdians of youth. They reject the common cultural mores regarding sex. They are dangerous.

191 Posted on 07/08/2001 22:05:36 PDT by Imbe
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To: truthsetsfree

get a rope

192 Posted on 07/08/2001 22:06:14 PDT by GodfearingTexan
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To: Imbe

One reason I decided to move out of California, after ten years, was that I couldn't go in a public restroom stall without some fag coming along and peeking at me through the gap in the door.

193 Posted on 07/08/2001 22:06:38 PDT by Fred25
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To: TheGrimReaper

Meanwhile, CBS' "60 Minutes" just aired its 20th consecutive smear-piece on the Boy Scouts this evening. Guess that pesky Supreme Court decision doesn't mean a whole helluva lot to the CBS braintrust.

And the very next story on 60 Minutes was on legalized discrimination during the admissions process at an educational institutuion in Michigan. But, of course, this is a good kind of discrimination because it promotes diversity in the classroom! Anyone else see the irony in all this? These liberals simply don't have a clue about how stupid they look!

194 Posted on 07/08/2001 22:14:26 PDT by AlaskaErik
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To: ehat

PEDOPHILIA CHIC

The Boy Scouts of America have removed 1800 men for improper sexual activity with scouts in the past 25 years.

Do they have reason to distrust MSM with their charges ?

Of course they do !

"Bargain Day" in Court user Normal user 1 1 2001-07-09T04:56:00Z 2001-07-09T04:57:00Z 6 2197 12523 104 25 15379 9.2720

 

Status

 

 Investigators have discovered that by the time sex criminals reach adulthood most have committed an extensive member of offenses that are never reported. Psychologist Philip Humbert of Eugene Oregon, was treating eight sex criminals charge with 16 offenses in all and convicted of 12. The eight admitted to over 13,000 deviant acts, including molestation and rape.

 

PREVENTION

 

When the FBI's Behavioral Science Unit in Quantico, Virginia, research the backgrounds of incarcerated serial rapist, they found that 41 of them were responsible for at least 837 rapes and over 400 more attempts. In a study funded by the National Institute of Mental Health, Emory University psychiatrist Gene G. Able found that 453 criminals admitted to molesting more than 67,000 children. Those who abused girls had an average of 52 victims each. But men who molested boys had an astonishing average of 150 victims.

 

FACT SHEET

 

Myth_Fact

 

When these repeat sex offenders are finally caught, they are encouraged to plead guilty to lesser charges in exchange for reduced punishment. Multiple charges pending against them are dropped, and they are often given probation instead of prison. Wisconsin Court of Appeals Judge Ralph Adam Fine asks, "What is the serial rapist to think when its 'bargain day' at the courthouse: three rapes for the price of one?"

 

Crazy like a Fox. Many of us assume that anyone who would molest, torture or kill women or children must be insane. As a result says Terry Miller, an Oregon therapist who has worked with many violent offenders, "treatment programs have been used as a substitute for imprisonment." The Vermont based Safer Society Program, which monitors treatment efforts, reports that such programs have mushroom nationally, from fewer than 600 in 1986 to over 1400 today.

 

Prevention

 

Yet, increasingly, experts reject the few that sexual deviants are mentally ill. Virginia clinical psychologist Stanton Samenow, has studied criminals for over twenty years. "The sex criminals anything but 'sick.' He is calculating and deliberate in his actions. He just shuts off his knowledge of right and wrong long enough to commit his crimes."

 

No "Cure." Oregon researcher Lita Furby and two associates reviewed the re- offense rates of sex criminals from treatment programs through out North America and Europe. They concluded: "There is as yet no evidence that clinical treatment reduces rates of sex re-offenses." Cautions forensics psychologist Cochran, "Treatment has been oversold."

 

 

 

On the Pedophilia Issue:

 

What the APA Should Have Known

 

 

Deconstructionists argue that distinctions between the genders are arbitrary and political. Now, the same argument is being advanced by man-boy love advocates about the distinction between the generations.

 

 

An article published last summer in the American Psychological Association's Psychological Bulletin has drawn a recent firestorm of criticism. Talk show hosts and congressmen are calling for investigations. The outrage has focused on the authors' conclusion, based on their analysis of child-molestation studies, that "the negative effects [of sexual abuse] were neither pervasive nor typically intense."

 

The article was entitled "A Meta-analytic Examination of Assumed Properties of Child Sexual Abuse Using College Samples."

 

APA spokeswoman Rhea Faberman defended publication of the article as part of the scientific work of the organization, saying, "We try to create a lot of dialogue." She labeled "ridiculous" the claim of radio talk-show host Dr. Laura Schlessinger that publication of the article and the attempt to normalize pedophilia were in any way related.

 

Contrary to Ms. Faberman's assertion, however:

 

 

There is a real and growing movement to legitimize and also legalize sexual relations between boys aged 10 to 16 and adult males;

Robert Bauserman, one of the authors of the article, has associated himself with the pedophilia movement through a previous article;

The movement's strategy is to promote the "objective" study of child/adult sex, free of moral considerations;

The APA should have known this before they published the article.

Those who are interested in legalizing sexual relations between adults and children want to change the parameters of the discussion from the "absolutist" moral position, to the "relative" position that it can sometimes be beneficial. The A.P.A. article furthered exactly this position.

Deconstructionists have argued--with some success--that distinctions between the genders are arbitrary and politically motivated. Now, the same argument is being advanced about the distinction between the generations.

 

In a recent lead article of the Journal of Homosexuality (1), for example, Harris Mirkin says the "sexually privileged" have disadvantaged the pedophile through sheer political force in the same way that blacks were disadvantaged by whites before the civil-rights movement.

 

 

The Movement to Legitimize Pedophilia

In 1981, Dr. Theo Sandfort, co-director of the research program of the Department of Gay and Lesbian Studies at the University of Utrecht, Netherlands, interviewed 25 boys aged 10 to 16 who were currently involved in sexual relationships with adult men. The interviews took place in the homes of the men.

 

According to Sandfort, "For virtually all the boys ... the sexual contact itself was experienced positively..." Could an adult-child sexual contact, then, truly be called positive for the child? Based on the research presented, Sandfort answered that question in the affirmative.

 

The study was severely criticized by experts in the field of child sexual abuse. Dr. David Mrazek, co-editor of Sexually Abused Children and Their Families, attacked the Sandfort research as unethical, saying:

 

 

"In this study, the researchers joined with members of the National Pedophile Workshop to 'study' the boys who were the sexual 'partners' of its members ... there is no evidence that human subject safeguards were a paramount concern. However, there is ample evidence that the study was politically motivated to 'reform' legislation.

"These researchers knowingly colluded with the perpetuation of secret illegal activity ... In the majority of cases, these boys' parents were unaware of these sexual activities with adult men, and the researchers contributed to this deception by their action."

 

Child sexual-abuse expert Dr. David Finkelhor also criticized the Sandfort research, pointing to the numerous studies which show adult-child sexual contact as a predictor of later depression, suicidal behavior, dissociative disorders, alcohol and drug abuse, and sexual problems.

 

Dr. Finkelhor strongly defended laws against child/adult sex, saying that many of those now-grown children are very active in lobbying for such protection.

 

In 1990, the campaign to legalize man-boy sex was furthered by the publication of a two-issue special of the Journal on Homosexuality, reissued as Male Intergenerational Intimacy: Historical, Socio-Psychological, and Legal Perspectives.

 

This volume provided devastating information on the way psychologically immature pedophile men use vulnerable boys who are starved for adult nurturance and protection.

 

In the forward, Gunter Schmidt decries discrimination against and persecution of pedophiles, and describes

 

 

"successful pedophile relationships which help and encourage the child, even though the child often agrees to sex while really seeking comfort and affection. These are often emotionally deprived, deeply lonely, socially isolated children who seek, as it were, a refuge in an adult's love and for whom, because of their misery, see it as a stroke of luck to have found such an 'enormously nurturant relationship'."

There is another deeply disturbing article in the volume, revealingly titled, "The Main Thing is Being Wanted: Some Case Studies on Adult Sexual Experiences with Children." In it, pedophiles reveal their need to find a child who will satisfy their desire for uncritical affirmation and a lost youth. One of the men justifies his activity as a search for love, and complains that: "Although I've had physical relationships with probably, I don't know, maybe a hundred or more boys over the years, I can only point to four or five true relationships over that time."

 

The volume also contains an introductory article which decries society's anti-pedophile sentiment. The authors complain about the difficulty studying man-boy relationships in "an objective way," and they hope the social sciences will adopt a broader approach which could lead to understanding of the "diversity and possible benefits of intergenerational intimacy."

 

 

Bauserman Defends Sandfort's Research

The same volume contains an article by Robert Bauserman-co-author of the A.P.A. study--which complains that objective research is impossible in a social climate that condemns man-boy sexual relationships. Bauserman decries the prevailing ideology that labels all boys as "victims" and all adult pedophiles as "perpetrators." He attacks researchers Mzarek and Finkelhor as being driven by a "particular set of beliefs about adult-juvenile sex." Bauserman looks for a new "scientific objectivity," with the explicit call for research that will challenge the social-moral taboo against adult/child sex. The meta-analysis which he co-authored, and which the American Psychological Association published, can be seen as Bauserman's follow-up to his Journal of Homosexuality article.

 

 

More Recent Defenses of Pedophilia

Harris Mirkin recently wrote a lead article in the Journal of Homosexuality entitled "The Pattern of Sexual Politics: Feminism, Homosexuality and Pedophilia." Using social-constructionist theory, he argues that the concept of child molestation is a "culture- and class-specific creation" which can and should be changed.

 

He likens the battle for the legalization of pedophilia to the battles for women's rights, homosexual rights, and even the civil rights of blacks.

 

He sees the hoped-for shift as taking place in two stages. During the first stage, the opponents of pedophilia control the debate by insisting that the issue is non-negotiable--while using psychological and moral categories to silence all discussion.

 

But in the second stage, Mirkin says, the discussion must move on to such issues as the "right" of children to have and enjoy sex.

 

If this paradigm shift could be accomplished, the issue would move from the moral to the political arena, and therefore become open to negotiation. For example, rather than decrying sexual abuse, lawmakers would be forced to argue about when and under what conditions adult/child sex could be accepted. Once the issues becomes "discussible," it would only be a matter of time before the public would begin to view pedophilia as another sexual orientation, and not a choice for the pedophile.

 

The response to the APA article shows that for the present, social opposition to pedophilia continues to be strong. Finkelhor's response to Bauserman, which was included in Male Intergenerational Intimacy, explains why:

 

 

"Some types of social relationships violate deeply held values and principles in our culture about equality and self-determination. Sex between adults and children is one of them. Evidence that certain children have positive experiences does not challenge these values, which have deep roots in our worldview."

To pedophile advocates, any discussion of the benefits of child-adult sex is a victory. The APA should have understood this, should have known about Bauserman's connections, and should have been well aware of--and vocally resistent to--the growing movement to legalize pedophilia.

 

Endnote

 

Mirkin, Harris, "The Pattern of Sexual Politics: Feminism, Homosexuality and Pedophilia," Journal of Homosexuality vol. 37(2), 1999, p. 1-24.

 

 

 As reported in the Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy 18, no 1 (1992) in an article entitled "The Proportions of Heterosexual and Homosexual Pedophiles among Sex Offenders against Children" by Freund and Watson, pedophilia, or child sexual molestation, is more than three times more common among homosexuals than heterosexuals. Gay activists will hasten to point out that, in absolute numbers, heterosexuals commit more child molestation than homosexuals, but considering the fact that heterosexual males outnumber homosexuals by a factor of roughly 36 to 1, as established by the authoritative 1993 Battelle Institute study , the relative incidence of pedophilia among homosexuals becomes far greater than for heterosexuals.

 

Dr. Charles Socarides in Homosexuality, A Freedom Too Far, has reported that over the twenty-year period 1971-1991, some 1,800 scoutmasters were removed from their posts by the Boy Scouts for suspected child molestation.

 

Dr. Jeffrey Satinover in Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth, notes that there is a substantial, influential, and growing segment of the homosexual community that neither hides nor condemns pedophilia, and which argues that pedophilia is an acceptable part of sexuality, especially homosexuality. The San Francisco Sentinel, a gay activist paper, has argued that pedophilia is central to the male homosexual life-style. The North American Man-Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) actively promotes homosexual pedophilia or pederasty as an acceptable alternative form of sex, contending that it is natural, normal, and healthy; they use the euphemism of 'intergenerational intimacy'. The Rene Guyon Society, which champions adult-child sex, has as its motto "Sex before eight, or it's too late"

 

The 1972 Gay Rights Platform of the National Coalition of Gay Organizations contained a demand for the repeal of all laws governing the age of sexual consent.

 

The Journal of Homosexuality 20, nos. 1-2 (1990) was a special advocacy issue on pedophilia. One article noted: "In recent years the general trend has been to label...intergenerational intimacy 'child sexual abuse'.... [This] has fostered a one-sided, simplistic picture....Further research...would help us to understand the ...possible benefits of intergenerational intimacy."

 

Another article stated "The issue of man/boy love has intersected the gay movement since the late nineteenth century, with the rise of the first gay rights movement in Germany. In the United States, as the gay movement has retreated from its vision of sexual freedom for all in favor of integration into existing social and political structures, it has sought to marginalize cross-generational love as a 'non-gay' issue. The two movements continue to overlap, amid signs of mutual support as well as tension...."

 

The Boy Scouts' fear of pederasty by homosexual scoutmasters on overnight and extended camping trips is not unfounded, but reasonable. It is based on the evidence, which you have ignored, and on a quality seemingly out of favor in today's politically-correct society--common sense.

195 Posted on 07/08/2001 22:14:38 PDT by porgygirl (porgy@tampabay.rr.com)
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To: brat

I doubt I could add anything that has not alerady been said. Never was a boyscout, but learned many of their traits later on in life....

Semper Fi, keep up the good fight.

196 Posted on 07/08/2001 22:21:02 PDT by unix
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To: AlaskaErik

"How stupid they (CBS) look" is, of course, irrelevant to them.

They are advancing the liberal/socialist/homo agenda, and will continue to do so as long as there is a camera pointed at them. In that respect, they are determined - not stupid.
Damn them all.

197 Posted on 07/08/2001 22:39:12 PDT by TheGrimReaper
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To: truthsetsfree

In 1992, Northampton, MA, "boasted" that 8 of 11 women in the city were lesbian. This is a mega-center for homosexual activity. This type of abhorrent behavior can be found anywhere, but in a sympathetic environment like Northampton, such illegal and immoral actions are predictable.

Sometimes the best way to avoid a bad situation is just by not being there. Clearly, this is one town straight-family people should avoid!

198 Posted on 07/08/2001 22:41:51 PDT by MHT
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To: SuziQ

The reason that they don't know the rules of two-on-one scouting is because people drop off their kids like scouts is some sort of free babysitting service--and then they get upset when their kid doesn't advance or make Eagle.

The most sucessful scouts usually have involved parents. As one Eagle mother said, "No scout ever wears the Eagle on his pocket without wearing an imprint of his mother's foot on his behind."

It would not take too many meetings before an involved parent would recognize (a)a leader who might have an ulterior motive; and, (b) their involvement is insulation from their own child becoming a target and victim of this leader.

199 Posted on 07/08/2001 22:46:23 PDT by MHT
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To: hattend

Hmmm...The 60 Minutes host tonight (forget her name, I don't normally watch SeeBS) has no problems with having gays with scouts on camping trips.

My guess is that their agenda isn't really about letting gays become Scoutmasters. It is about destroying the Boy Scouts of America altogether. IF they are able to force the Scouts to allow homosexuals to become Scoutmasters, how many parents are going let their kids become Boy Scouts? And how many will allow their sons who already are Scouts to continue with Scouting?

That is their REAL agenda, to utterly destroy the Boy Scouts. You want to know why?

Because the Boy Scouts teach true manhood, virtue, honor, respect, self-sufficience, and Duty to God and Country. We can't have THAT sort of training now can we...

200 Posted on 07/08/2001 22:54:43 PDT by FormerLurker
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To: Moonman62, truthsetsfree


I wonder if they knew he was a homosexual before he became a scout leader.

Are you nuts?

Or mean-spirited -- or what!!??

Everybody knows it's the darn Boy Scouts of America -- and the darn Catholic Church, come to that, that takes in perfectly normal men and turns them into queers, pooftahs and perverts!!

/sarcasm

 

201 Posted on 07/08/2001 22:55:06 PDT by Brian Allen
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To: FormerLurker

That is their REAL agenda, to utterly destroy the Boy Scouts. You want to know why? Because the Boy Scouts teach true manhood, virtue, honor, respect, self-sufficience, and Duty to God and Country. We can't have THAT sort of training now can we...

Most worthy of a repeat. I agree their goal is to destroy the BSA, much for the same reasons they want to destroy true religion.

202 Posted on 07/08/2001 23:01:33 PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: ATOMIC_PUNK Belial

Child molestation is also more mainstream in the Christian ministry than most other professions.

And, especially by members of the Metropolitan Community Church!

203 Posted on 07/08/2001 23:03:57 PDT by ppaul
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To: truthsetsfree

Within days, the police investigation blossomed into what prosecutors say is the state's largest ever child-molestation case. Reardon, 29, has pleaded innocent to 130 charges – including rape, molestation and disseminating pornography – involving 29 boys.

--

Oh, hes just doing what comes natural to him! Move on. Theres nothing here.

Adult Gays Love The Boy Scouts.

Carol

204 Posted on 07/08/2001 23:05:18 PDT by Carol-HuTex
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To: East Bay Patriot

Any parent that would let a homosexual teacher or scout master near their young sons is out of their minds.

YOU TELL'EM!

Carol

205 Posted on 07/08/2001 23:06:28 PDT by Carol-HuTex
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To: Imbe

See my post #203 above

206 Posted on 07/08/2001 23:06:55 PDT by ppaul
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To: Belial

Pedophilia and the priestly calling, now that's debateable

Totally uncalled for.

207 Posted on 07/08/2001 23:09:09 PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: VRW Conspirator

At a young age the child molester decides that they like "young" people. There entire life and focus/addiction is centered around youth. This is why you see them being arrested as priests, teachers, coaches, etc. They planned it all along.

There doesn't seem to be any treatment either. I don't think we can have a society where pedophiles are free to associate with children and expect the children be safe. I don't know what can be done with pedophiles.

208 Posted on 07/08/2001 23:18:29 PDT by FITZ
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To: Belial

Listen to Belial everyone, child molestation is Aok by him. Christians do it, eveyone should...JFK

209 Posted on 07/08/2001 23:18:30 PDT by BADROTOFINGER
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To: TheGrimReaper

Guess that pesky Supreme Court decision doesn't mean a whole helluva lot to the CBS braintrust.

Presummably, your use of the term "braintrust" allows for generous interpretation --- the interpretation being that they actually have brains on the staff of "Lefty Minutes."

Perversity through Diversity

210 Posted on 07/08/2001 23:24:14 PDT by The Schnoid from Sheboygan
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To: encm(ss)

Wanna bet this news is not covered?

Jesse Dirkhising, anyone?

211 Posted on 07/08/2001 23:27:27 PDT by The Schnoid from Sheboygan
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To: AnnaZ

Potential "lost story"???

 

212 Posted on 07/08/2001 23:33:29 PDT by Mercuria
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To: BADROTOFINGER

Belial and its' cohorts actually believe that the term "boy scout" is a verb.

213 Posted on 07/08/2001 23:36:53 PDT by Texasforever
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To: Salman

********************"Perhaps it is true, but "straight" pedophiles are not a political constituency."******************************************************************************

Outstanding point!

214 Posted on 07/08/2001 23:36:56 PDT by Chapita
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To: Mercuria

Congrats on the opening of Mercurial Times. Please update me on your progress. Onward and upward!

215 Posted on 07/08/2001 23:38:46 PDT by ppaul
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To: ehat

Where exactly does the article say this gentleman was a homosexual-American?
Hyphenated faggotry, now?!! Isn't that carrying "diversity" a tad too far?

(FYI, the majority of pedophiles are heterosexual-American).
In sheer number, yes. But by percentage of group, however, fags constitute by far the majority of pedophiles.
(Nice try, though.)

Perversity through Diversity

216 Posted on 07/08/2001 23:40:02 PDT by The Schnoid from Sheboygan
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To: WriteOn

I long for the good old days when God would strike them down directly, you know -- *lightning bolt* -- that kind of thing.

I cracked up one day when I opened my paper and read the Mustang Ranch in Reno was closed do to fire after it had been struck by lightning.

217 Posted on 07/08/2001 23:43:55 PDT by farmfriend
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To: ppaul

Thank you VERY, very much!!! Your encouragement is very much appreciated!! **g**

 

218 Posted on 07/08/2001 23:44:04 PDT by Mercuria
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To: Salvation

If he truly did this horrendous thing, then he deserves to be put away for life.

. . . or hung by the gonads with piano wire.

219 Posted on 07/08/2001 23:49:13 PDT by Vigilanteman
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To: truthsetsfree

The Best way to respond to the radical homo assault on the BSA is to support the BSA with your money.

Donate to the BSA!

220 Posted on 07/08/2001 23:54:53 PDT by jherd
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To: truthsetsfree

Off the queer!!

221 Posted on 07/08/2001 23:57:26 PDT by rightofrush
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To: grlfrnd

As usual, it's gays doing most of these molesting crimes.

Is that true?

222 Posted on 07/09/2001 00:08:27 PDT by cruiserman
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To: Belial

Re: your #36, #37, #49 posts

Boya would I love to meet an anti-Christian hater like you face-to-face!!

223 Posted on 07/09/2001 00:11:57 PDT by It is time
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To: It is time Belial


Belial?

 

224 Posted on 07/09/2001 00:20:58 PDT by ppaul
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To: porgygirl

I can just see some queer trying to explain all that to my pistol!

The next queer I am forced to deal with will be wasting my time trying to talk to me; no more turning one over to the shrinks, a mortician, maybe!

225 Posted on 07/09/2001 00:21:19 PDT by Chapita
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To: cruiserman

As usual, it's gays doing most of these molesting crimes. Is that true?

Of course. Male adults who molest little boys are "gay." Homosexuals or bisexuals. Perverts.

226 Posted on 07/09/2001 00:24:36 PDT by ppaul
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To: Dianna

Exactly. Heterosexual pedophiles go for little girls.

227 Posted on 07/09/2001 00:35:52 PDT by brat
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To: Jimbaugh

I thank God that my boys are grown. It seems like children are being treated as throw-away objects more every day.

In America, if you have the polically correct sexual persuasion, you are allowed to molest children. If you're a woman, you're allowed to murder children without penalty.

This is a Godless nation!

I will NEVER accept homosexuality as anything other than perverse, deviant behavior. I will never accept abortion as anything other than premeditated murder!!!!

God, PLEASE help our children!

228 Posted on 07/09/2001 00:53:08 PDT by JRadcliffe
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To: porgygirl

I knew these AIDS infested faggots were disgusting, but I had no clue that it was this bad.

229 Posted on 07/09/2001 01:01:33 PDT by AlaskaErik
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To: truthsetsfree

Click here for nationwide information on how to locate and support your local Boy Scout Council. Also, see if your local United Way has stopped funding the Scouts.

 

230 Posted on 07/09/2001 01:03:45 PDT by fleur-de-lis
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To: East Bay Patriot

I understand your rage. I have reason to feel rage, myself. When I was 12, an evangelist attempted to have a 'close encounter' with me. Thank God I was spared from the homosexual pedephile. Mike Reagan was not so lucky. The son of former President Reagan was mentally scarred by a homosexual pedephile. I once heard him get a caller on his show who was molested by the same man. Once again, it was a youth leader type. I forget what organisation it was.

But for a moment, let us put rage aside and attempt to look at the homosexual community as a whole. One thing I believe at this point, there are two kinds of homosexuals. One kind is hedonistic. The other kind is narcisistic. The hedonists assume that there is a limit to what their 'brethren' might do. The narcisists, of course, lie about their secret desires-- thus maintaining the illusion of some sort of 'dominant morality' among homosexuals.

Therefore, I am glad that there is some small effort by a few conservatives to reach out to the Log Cabin Reupublicans. Obviously, we cannot let them run the RNC, and they appear to have more influence than they should. But it is my belief that the majority of homosexuals do not seek to be active pedephiles.

There is another illusion as well. So much is hidden about homosexual activity, we can easilly imagine the worst about them. And we do not respect the ignorance that 'good' sodomists have about their narcisistic brethren. It is far too easy to put them all in the same box, to say that an abomination is an abomination, period. Perhaps that is so. I'm not the greatest biblical scholar.

But returning to rage, one thing I have to say, and I hope that homosexuals read this, their silence on these matters is deafening. I'm not calling them names beyond what the Bible says, and they should not take me to task for using the word 'sodomy'. But I am not calling them 'faggots' or 'queers'. I did in the past. No more. Because I hope to reach out. What I am saying is that there is a terrible rift between the religious right and the non-predatorial homosexuals [let us call them NPHs for now.] What do the NPHs think we will conclude about them if they do not do or say anything denouncing the behavior of pedephiles? Are they attempting to feed on discord? Do they hope that we will make fools of ourselves? If that is their goal, then they are the fools. There will always be fools who go too far, both peacemakers among Christians who go too far, and also hate mongers among Christians who go too far. But one thing is clear, I would rather be called a homophobe than be a partizan who gives political cover for pedephiles.

It is time for homosexuals to concede that CREAM IS NOT THE ONLY THING THAT RISES TO THE TOP. Something else rises to the top, and it smells like Clinton. It is time that homosexuals openly step forward and say, "There are some among us who cannot be trusted around children. We are a high risk group. We do not blame parents for wanting to shield their children from us."

That is the major bone of contention. Most parents are not concerned when a homosexual is put in charge of AIDES research. Most parents are not concerned when a homosexual works for NASA. But parents ARE concerned when a homosexual steps forward and says, "I like children. I want a position where I can spend a lot of time with them." An alarm bell goes off. Why? Because we know that pedephiles use this routine. It is obvious. And any homosexual who disagrees simply adds to the rift.

Freedom is a two way street. We can all quit our jobs. But the flip side of freedom is that the boss can fire us. Oh, he can't just fire us? I'm not talking about current law. I'm talking about freedom. Parents should be the boss and say, "You are fired. You are not hired." Take away their freedom and YOU are responsible for the outcome, ten times more so than a choice made freely. Cram these pediphiles down their throats and you reap the whirlwind of their wrath. Few things are more dangerous than a parent defending his or her child.

Free-Guards....

231 Posted on 07/09/2001 01:16:22 PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March
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To: East Bay Patriot

...with a resume that included youth minister, Boy Scout leader, YMCA swim coach.

Notice that the other areas of his life and work, where he could be in close contact with young boys? The preisthood, as well as teaching, is another area that draws young men that are gay and confused about their own sexuality, another group that believes that the rules don't apply to them and have the need to define themselves in terms of what they like to do sexually. Conservatives lost the fight, openly gay teachers in schools, back in the Anita Bryant days. (I hope I spelled that right.) The Boy Scouts can't lose this one.

232 Posted on 07/09/2001 01:51:25 PDT by RJayneJ
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To: RJayneJ

Conservatives lost the fight, openly gay teachers in schools, back in the Anita Bryant days. (I hope I spelled that right.) The Boy Scouts can't lose this one.

Since you can't nominate yourself, I nominate this as the "quote of the day" LOL

233 Posted on 07/09/2001 01:55:00 PDT by Texasforever
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To: garbanzo

Other than the fact that it isn't. It'd be really nice if some of you actually knew real live gay people and stopped getting all your info on gays from the 700 Club, which is why the public at large is ignoring the social conservatives' palpitations on this issue.

You must be looney, or gay, or both.  When Elton John did his little homoerotic dance with young men dressed as Cub Scouts or when homo delegates to the DemocRAT National Convention booed and harrassed a Boy Scout color guard -- I didn't need the 700 Club to tell me anything about gays.  Those incidents said it all.

Social conservatives will eventually be the saviors of this country.  Or they will be witnesses to its final slouch toward Gomorrah and the destruction that awaits it there.

234 Posted on 07/09/2001 03:15:00 PDT by JCG
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To: East Bay Patriot

Don't blame the rattle snake when you put it in a cage with little mice.

235 Posted on 07/09/2001 03:20:39 PDT by Dante3
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To: truthsetsfree

I hope he has a lively time in prison.

236 Posted on 07/09/2001 03:21:55 PDT by tonycavanagh
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To: truthsetsfree

The liberals hit bottom when they attacked the Boy Scouts. When are they going to go after their own? Like the Post Office.

237 Posted on 07/09/2001 04:07:07 PDT by The Raven
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To: Ryman

And one of the biggest problems we face with this issue is folks saying they do not care about people being homosexual...

Bingo,,, what they mean is , they don't care until its THEIR child who got molested

238 Posted on 07/09/2001 04:30:40 PDT by vinylsidingman
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To: truthsetsfree

Jury selection for his trial was scheduled to begin Monday in Northampton, where the trial was moved out of concern he wouldn't get an impartial jury close to home.

Send him here to Texas....for a real trial and real punishment!

239 Posted on 07/09/2001 04:33:58 PDT by cbkaty
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To: truthsetsfree

The Homos and their media lovers were in FULL force last night on 60 minutes....it is SICKENING! Leslie Stahl is a pitiful excuse for a journalist....if she has a SON would she want him to be molested?? Maybe....it makes you wonder. Dana Rohrbacher ROCKED on this show!!! More people shuld take a stand like Dana!!

240 Posted on 07/09/2001 04:52:09 PDT by Ann Archy
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To: truthsetsfree

Of course the boy scouts will be sued because they allowed this gay pervert the opportunity to molest boy scouts.

241 Posted on 07/09/2001 04:57:17 PDT by Pete53
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To: Dianna

See reply #123 above

242 Posted on 07/09/2001 05:56:17 PDT by EdReform
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To: Belial

Homosexuality and pedophilia are not the same thing.

They sure do look the same from here.

BTW in an earlier post you pointed out the youth leader problem. One thing that must be done is that ALL youth leaders must be married (to a woman for you who are cognitively challenged). This minimizes the risk as the wife will always be there during ministry times.

God Save America (Please)

243 Posted on 07/09/2001 06:03:29 PDT by John O
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To: truthsetsfree

Another FReeper posted a few weeks ago a powerful one-liner that underscores this whole sorry issue:

Sodomy is not a family value.

 

244 Posted on 07/09/2001 06:09:58 PDT by Joe Brower
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To: Cultural Jihad

Excellent point! (That legitimizing those who perform homosexual acts as a minority also legitimizes bigotry against all real minorities)

I agree 100%

GSA(P)

245 Posted on 07/09/2001 06:17:12 PDT by John O
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To: garbanzo

Sexual orientation is different from who you have sex with.

Sexual orientation is a myth. It is only seen from the ACTIONS that it supposedly drives.

There are no homosexuals. There are only those who perform homosexual acts. Performing these acts is a sickness and a sin and those who choose to perform them should be banned from any contact with children (or the rest of society for that matter)

GSA(P)

246 Posted on 07/09/2001 06:20:28 PDT by John O
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To: Cultural Jihad

When a man stands up in front of children and proclaims he is a sexual pervert, that, too, is an assault on the innocence of children.

AMEN!

You're on a roll CJ!. I've always believed that exposing children to sexual deviancy is a form of child abuse.

GSA(P)

247 Posted on 07/09/2001 06:22:57 PDT by John O
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To: Polybius

There was a gay rights apologist accusing the Boy Scouts of "teaching to hate" because the Boy Scouts do not allow gays to be Boy Scout leaders.

He says this like teaching the youth of America to hate perversion is a bad thing. I applaud the BSA for calling a spade a spade and banning the perverse!

GSA(P)

248 Posted on 07/09/2001 06:27:49 PDT by John O
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To: Dianna

Percentage-wise, I wonder who is more of a danger to my sons...the married man I don't suspect, or the homosexual that I do suspect.

Suspect everyone. In the mean time take steps to reduce your sons susceptibility to perverts. Make certain that they have a strong relation with their father. Make cerain that they have not been molested (or if they have been get them into counseling ASAP). Make sure they understand that homosexual behavior is unnatural, a sin and a sickness. And most importantly, make sure they have a strong relationship with Jesus Christ as their Savior.

GSA(P)

249 Posted on 07/09/2001 06:32:55 PDT by John O
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To: truthsetsfree

The people of MA say they are "shocked" by this behavior! This does not compute. People in MA are among the most vociferous in having homosexuals teach young people, work in churches, and lead Boy Scouts. This case is merely the "normal" airing of dirty laundry of MA political life for the past half century. And it will happen again and again. The people of MA are so morally bankrupt that they can't see the truth.

250 Posted on 07/09/2001 06:44:04 PDT by Theodore R.
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To: Theodore R.

I would suggest that MA's two patron political saints, EMK and John Kerry, go to the jail and "counsel" Mr. Reardon. They could tell him he went a "little overboard" in his desire to get the boys "in touch with their feelings." But they could reassure him that he is "normal and natural" and "felt for" the boys and therefore need not feel ashamed. After all, no one was driven off the Chappaquiddick bridge here!

251 Posted on 07/09/2001 06:51:01 PDT by Theodore R.
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To: truthsetsfree

Northampton, where the trial was moved out of concern he wouldn't get an impartial jury close to home.

The fix is in, or as close as they can get it. Over half the population of Northampton consists of lesbians. It's the spiky-hair-stocky-woman capital of the world. Most of the men there are hairdressers specialising in spiky hair, who date each other.

He isn't going to get an impartial jury there, either, in ultra-liberal Northampton. The local Boy Scout Council is up in arms about the national policy that would make them de-NABLAcate their leadership ranks. The gays are so good with the boys.

They also have a full-time Scout Leader who tells the kids stories about all the atrocities he committed as a Green Beret in Vietnam. Only trouble is, he was bagging groceries at a market in Chicopee or someplace... ths Council knows about him, cripes, the SF Association wrote him up in their national magazine, they've had dozens of letters, and their responce is, "well, he says his records are secret... and he's good with the boys."

That's what they said about Reardon, too... he was good with the boys. Hopefully the dykes will rise above gender politics and convict him.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

252 Posted on 07/09/2001 06:55:01 PDT by Criminal Number 18F
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To: Theodore R.

"The people of MA are so morally bankrupt that they can't see the truth."

Agreed - see The Massachusetts News Fistgate Archive

253 Posted on 07/09/2001 06:59:35 PDT by EdReform
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To: TheGrimReaper

Hi Grim- I saw that last night .. at least until I had to leave the room cause I was so-ooo pissed !! Typical UN mentality ... gotta respect evry frickin wacko's rights even at the expense of childrens' safety, physical, emotional, and spirtual health. Time to clean house ! Pax, Marobe

254 Posted on 07/09/2001 07:05:53 PDT by Marobe
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To: John O

"Sexual orientation is a myth. It is only seen from the ACTIONS that it supposedly drives... There are no homosexuals..."

An excerpt from "A Change In Thinking" by Linda Bowles, TownHall.com, May 22, 2001:

** "Many Americans believe homosexuals are born that way and can't do anything about it. For most of his professional life as a practicing psychiatrist, Dr. Robert Spitzer helped promote that belief. He has changed his mind.

He now believes that some practicing homosexuals can change their sexual orientation and become practicing heterosexuals. He believes they can fall in love with a person of the opposite sex, have children, and successfully reorient their sexual mindsets and transform their lives...

For years, homosexual activists and the popular media have aggressively promoted the idea that the homosexual is unchangeably what he is from the moment of conception. This message implants in the minds of fair-minded Americans this thought: If you are born a certain way, how can you be judged for being that way?

But if it is not true that homosexuals are hapless pawns of their biology, the consequences could be enormous. The belief that they are "what God made them" immunizes them from criticism, "normalizes" their behavior, and serves to shield them from the horrible onus of sexual practices that spread AIDS and numerous other heinous diseases.

A widespread understanding that environmental factors such as early childhood experiences, parental relationships and cultural conditioning contribute to the development of homosexuality -- or work to prevent its development -- would cause a significant social revolution in America. Parents might feel at first threatened, then outraged by the flagrant promotion of homosexuality in the classroom, on television and in the movies. Some Americans would rethink their inclination to believe the Boy Scouts of America are a hate group because they do not want practicing homosexuals to serve as scoutmaster role models to young boys.

Liberated from the myth that homosexuality is "genetic and unchangeable," there would be an immediate rejection of the homosexual agenda, which includes: the right to marry, the right to adopt and raise children, repeal of sodomy laws, hate-crime laws making crime against them more significant than crime against heterosexuals, affirmative-action status that gives them a legal weapon with which to intimidate others, the right to serve openly in the military and a lowered age for legal consent of sexual behavior.

So what is the truth? The truth is this: There is no "gay" gene. The scientific search for a biological basis for homosexuality has been a complete failure. Highly touted studies, including the study of the brains of 35 male cadavers by Simon LeVay (1991) and the heralded study of 40 pairs of homosexual brothers by Dean Hamer (1993), have not stood up to rigorous scientific scrutiny.

The widely respected Dr. Joel Gelernter of Yale University in an article in Science made this observation about various studies trying to link genes with complex human behavior: "All were announced with great fanfare; all were greeted unskeptically in the popular press; all are now in disrepute."

The bottom line is this: No child is born to be a homosexual. Homosexuals are made, and they can be unmade. This is the truth that more psychiatrists and psychologists need to acknowledge. This is the truth that the American people need to know, parents of young children need to heed and politicians need to understand." **

An excerpt from "THE GAY GENE: GOING, GOING … GONE" by Yvette C. Schneider, Family Research Council:

** "Many misconceptions exist about the supposedly inborn nature of complex behaviors such as homosexuality. Most of these are due to media reports that present scientific studies in selective sound bites.

In reality, no scientific studies show an inborn cause for any such complex behaviors. In this day of shirking responsibility and blaming anything but ourselves for our actions (e.g., I spilled coffee and burned myself, but it was the restaurant’s fault for serving hot coffee), claims that someone is genetically or chemically structured to engage in dangerous or antisocial activities find increasing appeal...

When the question of the origin of homosexuality arises, homosexual activists tend to resort to the often-heard refrain "I was born gay." There are even T-shirts sold at homosexual functions and bookstores that say, "Hey Mom, Thanks for the Genes." The idea that homosexuality is a predetermined condition that originates in the womb also has been increasingly embraced by society as a whole. A February 2000 Harris Poll of 1,010 randomly selected adults found that the number of people who believe "sexual orientation" "is more dependent on the genes you are born with" has increased 6 percent since 1995. Thirty-five percent of the people polled believe that homosexuality is "genetic," versus 29 percent who held that opinion in 1995. Fifty-two percent believe that "what you learn and experience" causes homosexuality, as opposed to 65 percent who believed that in 1995...

In the March 1993 edition of the Archives of General Psychiatry (AGP), Drs. William Byne and Bruce Parsons examined past and current claims and concluded that "there is no evidence at present to substantiate a biologic theory. The appeal of current biologic explanations for sexual orientation may derive more from dissatisfaction with the present status of psychosocial explanations than from a substantiating body of experimental data."...

Science published an article in 1994 that included the following statement:

Time and time again, scientists have claimed that particular genes or chromosomal regions are associated with behavioral traits, only to withdraw their findings when they were not replicated. ‘Unfortunately,’ says Yale’s [Dr. Joel] Gelernter, ‘it’s hard to come up with many’ findings linking specific genes to complex human behaviors that have been replicated. ‘All were announced with great fanfare; all were greeted unskeptically in the popular press; all are now in disrepute."...

There is increasing debate among homosexual activists as to whether or not they should even be advocating the idea that homosexuality is genetic. It was once thought to be politically expedient to say, "I can’t help my attractions. I was born this way." Stein told the Advocate.

Many gay people want to use this research to promote gay rights. If gay people are ‘born that way,’ then discrimination against them must be wrong. … A gay or lesbian person’s public identity, sexual behaviors, romantic relationships, or decisions to raise children are all choices. No theory suggests that these choices are genetic.

Not only is the scientific research that tries to prove an inborn nature to homosexuality questionable, but the researchers also fail to take into account the existence of thousands of former homosexuals. If homosexuality were biologically determined, it would seem impossible for homosexuals to become heterosexual...

CONCLUSION

Scientists have not even come close to proving a genetic or biological cause for homosexuality, yet homosexual activists continue to say that sexual activity between members of the same sex is "just the same" as race or gender. Using "biology" as a stamp of legitimacy, activists have pushed for special rights, from sex-partner subsidies to "gay marriage" to adoption. Without scientific evidence to support such claims, it is wrong and dangerously misleading to say that people are born homosexual and cannot change.

Yvette C. Schneider, a former lesbian who is now married, is a policy analyst in the cultural studies department at Family Research Council." **

From Bending Gender: California's new definition of gender invades private religious schools [Free Republic]:

** "Golden State girls aren't necessarily girls anymore, nor men men, since the State Board of Education (SBOE) shoehorned into California's legal code a new definition of gender. According to Title 5 of the state code, "gender" no longer means male or female, but instead "a person's actual sex or perceived sex and includes a person's perceived identity, appearance, or behavior, whether or not that identity, appearance, or behavior is different from that traditionally associated with the person's sex at birth." **

255 Posted on 07/09/2001 07:07:21 PDT by EdReform
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To: SamAdams76

"...I used to have my sons in the Cub Scouts but I have pulled them out of Scouting entirely, in part because the BSA is not allowed to keep homosexuals from becoming Scout Leaders...."

Sam,

If you pull out of Scouts, the faggots win. You don't. Your kids don't. That is the gayleft plan and you've stumbled right into it. BSA is clearly able to keep out known faggots from leadership posts. That is what the SC ruling last year was all about. Why don't you get into leadership with your local troop as I did?

All that is required for evil to prosper is for good men to do nothing.

256 Posted on 07/09/2001 07:10:51 PDT by Agamemnon
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To: tinlady, JCG, Mike K, Chapita, Ryman, VRW Conspirator, bribriagain, Imbe, Cultural Jihad, ppaul

To: Belial

What does this mean? "No current freeper by this name?"

It means that Jim Rob has just flushed! Whoo hoo!

257 Posted on 07/09/2001 07:13:05 PDT by FormerLib
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To: It is time

"Boya would I love to meet an anti-Christian hater like you face-to-face!!"

Now, now. We are supposed to turn the other cheek. In the end, we will all stand before the great creator and give an account for our actions.

God is good and just.

258 Posted on 07/09/2001 07:13:11 PDT by JRadcliffe
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To: Criminal Number 18F

Church youth leader pleads guilty to molestations July 9, 2001 Posted: 9:55 AM EDT (1355 GMT

Reardon in custody

SALEM, Mass. (AP) -- A former youth minister and YMCA swim coach decided to plead guilty Monday in the state's largest child sex abuse case because he wanted to spare the children further harm, his lawyer said.

Christopher Reardon, 29, had pleaded innocent to 130 charges including rape, molestation and disseminating pornography involving 29 boys

Please notice that CNN left out the fact that this guy was a Boy Scout leader. We need to call them on this blatant attempt to appease the homosexual community and their unbelievable request to allowed to supervise young boys through the BOA.

259 Posted on 07/09/2001 07:15:10 PDT by Sweet Hour of Prayer
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To: Ryman

Hard to understand your point here...the S.C. ruled that the BSA can keep homosexuals from becoming Scout Leaders...IF they know it!

In liberal Massachusetts, where I am fortunate to breate the same air as Sam (and we are both unfortunate to breathe the same air as Reardon), we conservatives are a small, hunted and oppressed lot. It's rather like being in an underground. The local boy scout councils have largely distanced themselves from national's "intolerant" ruling.

Well, to Hades with that. I am intolerant -- of buggery. In a State where the worst thing you can do is "discriminate," I am discriminating indeed. But man alive, I am out of step with my neighbours.

quoting the FBI that the majority of pedophiles were 'straight' males. Technically, that is just barely true, as slightly more pedophiles select girls than boys as victims. But consider that gays are, as near as anybody can tell, about 1% of the population (there are ten times as many blacks as gays, and almost three times as many Jews... the media feed you a highly disproportionate number of gays if you let them).

The very fact that they were pedophiles would preclude them from being straight and place them in the homosexual column

A matter of terminology. Anyone that seeks sex with a child is a pedophile. Paula P. notwithstanding, 99.999% of these pedophiles are males. Just over half of them select female victims and these are Ms. Stahl's "straight" pedos. (Of course, she misses yet another point: the only pedos that will seek out Scout jobs are the ones that want boys. Soi-disant "straight" pedos are a red herring in this argument). Just under half of all pedos select male victims. These are generally called, over the kicking and screaming and hissy-fits of the gay community, "gay" pedos.

The mainstream (?) gay community has always celebrated youth and has a kind of "pedophilia chic" happening. They don't talk about their feelings towards sex and the preteen in the same way some conservatives are underground in their feelings on race and affirmative action.

No pedophiles are "straight" in any absolute sense of the word, but the term is used to distingish the rapers of female babies from the rapers of male ones. Both of which are perfectly alright with Ms. Stahl and CBS.

Pedophilia does not seem to respond to any kind of treatment. Once a pedo, always a pedo. Humane treatment, balancing the good of the individual and the good of society, would be execution for the first offence.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

260 Posted on 07/09/2001 07:16:25 PDT by Criminal Number 18F
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To: Criminal Number 18F

**********************"Pedophilia does not seem to respond to any kind of treatment. Once a pedo, always a pedo. Humane treatment, balancing the good of the individual and the good of society, would be execution for the first offence."***********************************************

I would, gladly, volunteer, but I would have to set a weekly limit! Too much, too often, too tiring!

261 Posted on 07/09/2001 07:48:15 PDT by Chapita
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To: MHT

The most sucessful scouts usually have involved parents. As one Eagle mother said, "No scout ever wears the Eagle on his pocket without wearing an imprint of his mother's foot on his behind."

LOL!! As an Eagle Mom I can say AMEN to that!!

262 Posted on 07/09/2001 08:27:22 PDT by SuziQ
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To: truthsetsfree

BTTT

263 Posted on 07/09/2001 08:57:38 PDT by 3catsanadog
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To: SuziQ

Bump!!

264 Posted on 07/09/2001 09:04:40 PDT by EdReform
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To: Chapita

Pedophilia does not seem to respond to any kind of treatment

In fact, pedophiles have one of the (if not THE) highest recidivism rates of felons for all crimes in the U.S.

265 Posted on 07/09/2001 09:05:22 PDT by TheGrimReaper
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To: Criminal Number 18F

Do you have a link with the numbers for "gay" and for "straight" pedophiles?

266 Posted on 07/09/2001 09:06:09 PDT by GEC
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To: Archie Bunker on steroids

"Andrew Dice Clay agrees that the test is simple - either you suc* dic* or you do not su*k dic*. Pretty simple"

If that were all that they did, many here would not be screaming so loudly.

It's their penchant for re-directing the body's primary waste elimination system into other uses (many) that is most disgusting, and hazardous.

267 Posted on 07/09/2001 09:10:21 PDT by editor-surveyor
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To: Belial

Oh, and do you have the statistics to PROVE that? The Christian ministries are the only ones who seem to be written up when it happens. Others are hushed up! Get a life, Belial!

268 Posted on 07/09/2001 09:12:37 PDT by Marysecretary
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To: truthsetsfree

I cannot find this story on the AP through your link. Would it be possible for you to give me the internet address that goes directly to the story? Thanks in advance.

269 Posted on 07/09/2001 09:14:59 PDT by Dr. Scarpetta
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To: GEC,Cicero

AP Breaking News this morning has a rewrite of this story. Not one new fact. Reardon's connection to the Boy Scouts has been taken out of the article however and the "Christian Youth Leader" angle emphasized.

270 Posted on 07/09/2001 09:15:13 PDT by LarryLied
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To: JCG

Have you read her book, "Kinsey: Crimes and Consequences"? She spent about 15 years researching Kinsey, his studies, the people he used for his studies (convicted sex molesters, prostitutes). But the real shocker is his studies on children and their sexuality. For instance, Kinsey notes that infants can achieve orgasm. Think about it - how did these babies achieve orgasm without someone manipulating them. I urge all on Free Republic to read her book. It will shock you and enlighten you and explain part of the reason we have become such a sensate society.

271 Posted on 07/09/2001 09:17:06 PDT by 3catsanadog
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To: TheGrimReaper

That is one reason why I take these freaks of nature very seriously and expect to have to terminate one!

272 Posted on 07/09/2001 09:17:50 PDT by Chapita
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To: Criminal Number 18F

Here are a some links to get information on how to help the boy scouts fight the left:

 

 

Support the Boy Scouts

 

Scouts Alumni Association

 

Scouting Legal Defense Fund

Also, please take a moment to send an email to the editor of the LA Times to protest their yanking of funding for needy Boy Scouts to go to camp. Letter to the Editor of the Los Angeles Times

Thanks, Auntie

 

273 Posted on 07/09/2001 09:33:04 PDT by Aunt Polgara
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To: truthsetsfree

For this to happen in ultraliberal-land Massachusetts is just too rich.

274 Posted on 07/09/2001 09:35:21 PDT by ChocChipCookie
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To: truthsetsfree

275 Posted on 07/09/2001 09:51:03 PDT by Harley_hog
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To: Ryman

We DO need to do more to protect children.

So, considering that 1 in 3 girls is molested or raped by the time she is 18, and that the vast majority of these rapes are committed by male family members or family friends, it seems the best way to protect them is to isolate them from their STRAIGHT fathers, uncles, male cousins, etc. Right?

If the concern is preventing our children from being molested, this would be a more effective strategy than banning gay boy scout leaders.

The statistic is 1 in 9 for boys. That's usually in the family, too. The enemy isn't the boy scout leader. The enemy is you.

There are so many postings about the media presence, or lack thereof, of this story, and try to treat it as some huge gay conspiracy. But how many times have you heard about uncles who molested all of his nieces on the news? If all of this news was covered, even 24 hour CNN wouldn't be able to cover it all due to lack of time.

Look around. Know 3 girls? Know 9 boys? Chances are that at least one of them has been molested. Chances are VERY slim that the perpetrator is gay, and even slimmer that it's the boy scout leader.

276 Posted on 07/09/2001 10:08:37 PDT by whyhate?
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To: whyhate?

The enemy is you.

No, it isn't.

Sounds like the enemy might be you, though.

277 Posted on 07/09/2001 10:29:31 PDT by VoiceOfBruck
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To: A2J

"Jury selection for his trial was scheduled to begin Monday in Northampton, where the trial was moved out of concern he wouldn't get an impartial jury close to home." I don't know about Northampton, but the only place I know of where he can get a "fair(y)" trial would be San Francisco. He would feel right at home.

Well, we in Western Massachusetts know, and Northampton is the biggest collection of homosexuals west of Provincetown in this state, home of Smith College and the biggest collection of lesbians you have EVER seen in your life! Whenever you see a bunch of crackpot students protesting some scatalogical art exhibit or something, chances are, it will be in Northampton. Too bad, because otherwise, it is very picturesque.

I am surprised that Reardon bothered to go for a guilty plea in that town, considering that his homosexuality will give him an automatic out. The undoubtable assault on individual Boy Scouts will be a bonus.

278 Posted on 07/09/2001 10:44:04 PDT by SpinyNorman
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To: truthsetsfree

I have one question regarding this issue that I can not find an answer for.

Does the Boy Scouts of America have a policy of denying membership to boys that are homosexuals or admitted homosexuals?

Everything I see about this court case involves Scout leaders and Scout Masters, but nothing about Scouts themselves.

279 Posted on 07/09/2001 10:45:41 PDT by ConservativeNJdad
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To: whyhate?

 

whyhate? member since July 9th, 2001

280 Posted on 07/09/2001 10:48:50 PDT by AlGone2001
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To: whyhate?

BSA does not ban leaders to prevent child abuse.

BSA bans gay men as Scout leaders because they are bad role models for young men.

Sexual preferance is a matter of personal choice, people are not "born that way". After may years of searching, science has not found a "gay gene".

Boys need to be discouraged from making this wrong lifestyle choice. Gay men simply are not proper role models for young boys.

281 Posted on 07/09/2001 10:51:03 PDT by JoeFromBurbank
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To: whyhate?

If the concern is preventing our children from being molested, this would be a more effective strategy than banning gay boy scout leaders.

Then why don't we enact legislation that prevents democrats from using the daughters of their suppoters as sex toys?

282 Posted on 07/09/2001 10:51:57 PDT by AlGone2001
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To: Cultural Jihad

Your post # 100 is so true. They want to pigy back on lists of other minorities and that is WRONG.

283 Posted on 07/09/2001 10:57:14 PDT by Snow Bunny
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To: ConservativeNJdad

No, the BSA does not have a policy of denying membership to any boy.

That's the while point here. The BSA does not ask boys "are you gay?"

The issue only applies to leaders, since the BSA exists to severe boys, not men. Men who are denied membership as leaders can not claim that any "rights" where violated. No adult has a "right" to be a Scout Leader.

284 Posted on 07/09/2001 10:58:13 PDT by JoeFromBurbank
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To: truthsetsfree

This makes me sick. Homosexuals should never be allowed near children at all, not under any circumstances.

285 Posted on 07/09/2001 11:02:58 PDT by Snow Bunny
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To: truthsetsfree

Where did you get the idea that this man is gay?

286 Posted on 07/09/2001 11:12:39 PDT by MAW
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To: truthsetsfree

Another interesting "truth" here is that the molestation occurred w/ boys involved in a church program.... not with the Scouts.

 

287 Posted on 07/09/2001 11:15:26 PDT by MAW
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To: truthsetsfree

Another interesting "truth" here is that the molestation occurred w/ boys involved in a church program.... not with the Scouts.

 

288 Posted on 07/09/2001 11:15:56 PDT by MAW
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To: Texasforever

I am getting very tired of you and many of your friend's SICK interpretation of what it means to be a Conservative.

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww too bad.

Jim Rob has said on numerous occasions that vitriol and hatred against gays (like on this thread) is not welcome on this website. He's banned people for it and will do so again, I imagine.

Plus it's damn pointless and just feeds the left and the media rocks to hit you with. Think you'd clue up and figure that part out... You'd spend your energies better attacking people like A2J when they step out of line...

The bigotted, ignorant jackasses on this thread give republicans a bad name.

Normal republicans aren't bigots :)

289 Posted on 07/09/2001 11:18:24 PDT by DAnconia55
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To: JoeFromBurbank

Thanks for the response. I thought that was the case, but I could not find it anywhere. Do you know if the BSA would expel a scout who declared his homosexuality? I'm pretty sure that the Supreme Court case involved an existing Scout Leader who went public with his homosexuality (I believe he was elected president of a local gay organization).

290 Posted on 07/09/2001 11:20:35 PDT by ConservativeNJdad
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To: bribriagain

And every week you turn up as a homosexual defender. Why do you post here?

Every week someone attacks them. They shouldn't NEED defending, because YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE ATTACKING THEM HERE.

292 Posted on 07/09/2001 11:30:53 PDT by DAnconia55
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To: ConservativeNJdad

Actually, no where is it determined that this man is a homosexual.

Secondly, you've been mislead into believing that he was a scout leader with the BSA. Local papers report that he was a camp counselor with the YMCA.

293 Posted on 07/09/2001 11:33:39 PDT by MAW
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To: Harley_hog

This supposes that one can "act" homosexual without "being" a homosexual.

294 Posted on 07/09/2001 11:35:40 PDT by MAW
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To: MAW

He (a male) has sex with boys (males), That makes him gay. (can't you see that).

295 Posted on 07/09/2001 11:35:45 PDT by JoeFromBurbank
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To: Snow Bunny

"This makes me sick. Homosexuals should never be allowed near children at all, not under any circumstances."

I agree.

COPS: HIV-POSITIVE TEACHER RAPED BOY, 9 [Free Republic]

"Child Molestation and Homosexuality" By Paul Cameron, Ph. D., Family Research Institute:

** "Ann Landers (1) says the statement "Homosexuals are more inclined to molest children sexually than heterosexuals" is false. The American Psychological Association has sponsored a work that asserts: "Recognized researchers in the field on child abuse,... almost unanimously concur that homosexual people are actually less likely to approach children sexually." (2)

Why is it, then, that we read about sex between boys and men in every newspaper? Does it merely reflect sensationalist journalism? We know that heterosexual molestation also occurs. But since there are so many more heterosexuals than homosexuals, which kind of child molestation – homosexual or heterosexual – is proportionately more common?

The Scientific Evidence

Three kinds of scientific evidence point to the proportion of homosexual molestation: 1) survey reports of molestation in the general population, 2) surveys of those caught and convicted of molestation, and 3) what homosexuals themselves have reported. These three lines of evidence suggest that the 1%-to-3% of adults who practice homosexuality (3) account for between a fifth and a third of all child molestation...

...Summary

About a third of the reports of molestation by the populace have involved homosexuality. Likewise, between a fifth and a third of those who have been caught and/or convicted practiced homosexuality. Finally, a fifth to a third of surveyed gays admitted to child molestation. All-in-all, a rather consistent story.

Teacher-Pupil Sexual Interaction

Nowadays parents are labeled bigots for fearing that homosexual teachers might molest their children. But if homosexuals are more apt to molest children and are in a positon to take advantage of them, this fear makes sense. Indeed, accounts of disproportionate homosexual teacher molestation appear throughout the scientific literature.

The original U.S. Kinsey study reported that 4% of the non-criminal white gays and 7% of the non-criminal white lesbians reported that they had their first homosexual experience with a ‘teacher or other caretaker.’ None of the heterosexuals were recorded as having a teacher as their first sex partner. (18)...

...If 2% of the population is responsible for 20% to 40% of something as socially and personally troubling as child molestation, something must be desperately wrong with that 2%. Not every homosexual is a child molester. But enough gays do molest children so that the risk of a homosexual molesting a child is 10 to 20 times greater than that of a heterosexual.

Goals of the Gay Movement

The gay movement is forthright about seeking to legitimize child-adult homosexual sex. In 1987, The Journal of Homosexuality – the scholarly organ of the gay rights movement – published "Pedophilia and the Gay Movement." (29) Author Theo Sandfort detailed homosexual efforts to end "oppression towards pedophilia." In 1980 the largest Dutch gay organization (the COC) "adopted the position that the liberation of pedophilia must be viewed as a gay issue... [and that] ages of consent should therefore be abolished... by acknowledging the affinity between homosexuality and pedophilia, the COC has quite possibly made it easier for homosexual adults to become more sensitive to erotic desires of younger members of their sex, thereby broadening gay identity."

Conclusion

Not only is the gay rights movement upfront in its desire to legitimize sex with children, but whether indexed by population reports of molestation, pedophile convictions, or teacher-pupil assaults, there is a strong, disproportionate association between child molestation and homosexuality. Ann Landers’ claim that homosexuals molest children at no higher a rate than heterosexuals do is untrue. The assertion by gay leaders and the American Psychological Association that a homosexual is less likely than a heterosexual to molest children is patently false." **

See: "Does homosexuality equal pedophiles and beastilists?" and "The objective of the homosexual agenda is to clear the path for pederasts"

296 Posted on 07/09/2001 11:36:32 PDT by EdReform
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To: truthsetsfree

Hang 'im high.


BUMP

297 Posted on 07/09/2001 11:38:19 PDT by tm22721
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To: MAW

Actually, no where is it determined that this man is a homosexual.

If a man has sex with anoter man, he is gay. It does not matter that he might not call himself gay. He is still gay. (homosexual).

298 Posted on 07/09/2001 11:39:02 PDT by JoeFromBurbank
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To: truthsetsfree

With a last name like that, this story has to be a plant.
(didn't see anyone else stoop to this level, so I felt obligated)

299 Posted on 07/09/2001 11:40:39 PDT by G Larry
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To: ALL

where as homosexuals have rights so do other people. when you sign up your children to any group you have a right to know what that group is about all the time. hidden HOMO.S coming out changes the agenda for all. so are we putting the fox in the hen house.its a trojan horse. So knowing the BS agenda why join.kids have few outlets so why screw it up for them.GAY is a mood not a sex act. So stay the hell out of something that dont mirror your beliefs.ITS FOR THE CHILDREN

300 Posted on 07/09/2001 11:43:49 PDT by kma
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To: JoeFromBurbank

He "is" gay, or he is "acting" gay? It would appear that the people on this board condemn the action and say it's not the same as "being" black, etc. So, do we draw the distinction between "being" a homosexual and "acting" homosexual, or don't we.

And, by the way, this man didn't have sex with another man. He molested some children.

Hetersexuals have attractions for people of the opposite sex (even if there is no sex involved).

Homosexuals have attractions for people of the same sex (even if there is no sex involved).

Pedophiles have attractions to children (even if there is no sex involved).

Pedasterists molest children. They are not necessarily pedophiles. And, even if they molest children of the same sex, they are not necessarily homosexual.

301 Posted on 07/09/2001 11:46:31 PDT by MAW
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To: JoeFromBurbank

Oh, and I just want to check this out with you... you said that one sexual act determines the orientation. Along these lines you must also feel that there is no way to "cure" a homosexual. If he's gay, he's gay, right?

302 Posted on 07/09/2001 11:48:53 PDT by MAW
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To: DAnconia55; Jim Robinson

The bigotted, ignorant jackasses on this thread give republicans a bad name.

It was humorous to read your rant. FR has enough of a problem with moral-liberal ideologues and their endless looney conspiracy theories and anti-cop, anti-religion, pro-drug, and pro-perversion drivel, eh? By the way, your graphic above is out of line, but you knew that already.

303 Posted on 07/09/2001 11:51:00 PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: MAW

And, even if they molest children of the same sex, they are not necessarily homosexual.

The word 'homosexual' only denotes the sexes involved, not their ages.

304 Posted on 07/09/2001 11:53:01 PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: MAW

Another interesting "truth" here is that the molestation occurred w/ boys involved in a church program.... not with the Scouts.

That's beside the point. I would hope that this would not happen durring Scout programs, since BSA guidelines requre two leaders to be present at all times.

They could both be gay I suppose.... Once you open the door to this sort of thing. ("gay" leaders, that is)

305 Posted on 07/09/2001 11:53:59 PDT by JoeFromBurbank
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To: MAW

This is a choice that a person makes. What is there to "cure".

306 Posted on 07/09/2001 11:56:26 PDT by JoeFromBurbank
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To: Cultural Jihad

Another perspective

307 Posted on 07/09/2001 11:57:38 PDT by Entropy Squared (The Rush to Chaos)
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To: MAW

It seems to me that in this case there was more than just "one" act. I never said that one act made him a homosexual, but he shows a pattern of wanting to have sex with boys.

308 Posted on 07/09/2001 12:00:51 PDT by JoeFromBurbank
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To: truthsetsfree

Hi Chris Reardon, Meet your new wife BUBBA! We have to let homosexuals in the Boy Scouts????

309 Posted on 07/09/2001 12:03:24 PDT by YOMO
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To: DAnconia55

"Normal republicans aren't bigots :)"

Yeah, just like your friend James Jeffords, who was a "normal Republican" until he saw he could better advance his agenda being an independent.

310 Posted on 07/09/2001 12:18:40 PDT by A2J
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To: FormerLib

"It means that Jim Rob has just flushed! Whoo hoo!"

Great!

Now if we can only clear the lines of the likes of the blockages D'Aconica55, MAW, and garbanzo make, we'll be doing fine.

311 Posted on 07/09/2001 12:33:57 PDT by A2J
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To: truthsetsfree

I just heard the CBS Radio account. He is not being referred to as a Boy Scout leader. He is, it seems, a "youth minister." Barf!

312 Posted on 07/09/2001 12:44:40 PDT by MrChips
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To: JoeFromBurbank

"If a man has sex with anoter man, he is gay."

That's what you said. Is "one act" the same as "has sex with" or not? You're not going to pull a Clinton on me are you?

It would appear that this man is a pedophile... and this would mean that the sex of his victims is irrelevant. He is only attracted to children.

313 Posted on 07/09/2001 12:45:30 PDT by MAW
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To: MrChips

Exactly! The "news" media made SURE to mention he was a CATHOLIC youth pastor and swim coach. Even though the written accounts had him listed as a scout leader as the second item. It is so incredibly obvious that they not only don't want you to know he was a scout master, but then use the opportunity to bash Catholics.

314 Posted on 07/09/2001 12:55:02 PDT by boop
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To: MAW

Sorry if you missed my point. This man shows a pattern of this type of thing. I mean to say if he has a repeated pattern, I'd consider him homosexual.

315 Posted on 07/09/2001 13:23:05 PDT by JoeFromBurbank
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To: EdReform,East Bay Patriot, grlfrnd, TheGrimReaper, purple haze, encm(ss), SamAdams76, hattend, Dante

Thank you for posting this information on this thread. Isn't the conclusion that the homosexual movement would legitimize pedophilia, removing existing criminal charges for increasing acceptance of deviant sexual behavior?

316 Posted on 07/09/2001 13:28:09 PDT by Angelique
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To: truthsetsfree

Which is better?

A) Sending son off with Scout leaders, one of whom is known to be gay allowing parents to warn kids not to be alone with him.

OR

B) Sending son off with Scout leaders, one of whom is a church leader and a secret pedophile, trusted by all.

The Boy Scouts have never accepted openly gay leaders, yet they have had a history of allowing kids to be molested by 'straight', often married, Scout leaders. Wouldn't it be better to have leaders whose proclivities are known?

317 Posted on 07/09/2001 13:44:58 PDT by Looking for Diogenes
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To: MAW

nother interesting "truth" here is that the molestation occurred w/ boys involved in a church program.... not with the Scouts.

Not true; there were 160 counts (and they could have had another several hundred if more of the victims hadn't clammed up). A number of Reardon's victims were his Scout charges.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

318 Posted on 07/09/2001 14:08:50 PDT by Criminal Number 18F
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To: Mnany Festo

bump

Another sickening tale for the archives here.

319 Posted on 07/09/2001 14:15:27 PDT by George W. Bush
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To: Looking for Diogenes

Wouldn't it be better to have leaders whose proclivities are known?

That's an interesting concept. Kind of like, "let's invite the next paroled murderer to move in next door. Because you never know what kind of neighbour you're going to get, and if we knew he was a murderer we could watch our backs better."

The one thing that I see interesting in your post, is that it does seem that while a very disproportionate number of pedophiles are homosexually oriented, few (if any) of them publicly identify themselves as homosexuals. Perhaps they fear that it would reduce their access to boys?

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

320 Posted on 07/09/2001 14:25:06 PDT by Criminal Number 18F
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To: Looking for Diogenes

Neither is acceptable. As I've pointed out, BSA feels that gay men make poor role models for young men. Men choose to be gay, they are not born that way, at least a "gay gene" has not been discovered.

As the BSA says on it's web site, values are "caught not taught". This being the case, gay men should not be leaders in a Boy Scout troop.

321 Posted on 07/09/2001 14:28:05 PDT by JoeFromBurbank
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To: all

Start a new thread 2....this one is up to 675K!!!!

322 Posted on 07/09/2001 14:37:50 PDT by hattend
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To: Criminal Number 18F

There are very few cases I've heard of involving 'out of the closet' gays molesting children. Compare that with the countless cases of married men, single 'straight' men, priests, cops, etc., doing the molesting.

The Boy Scouts have never allowed gays as leaders: why has that policy resulted in so many molestations? The simple policy of never letting an adult alone with a kid seems like it is more effective, less controversial, and easier to implement.

Your analogy of the paroled murderer would be apt if we were talking about paroled child molesters. But otherwise, that's right, you don't know who might be a pedophile. There is no category of person who is automatically excluded from that possibility.

323 Posted on 07/09/2001 14:42:14 PDT by Looking for Diogenes
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To: truthsetsfree

I don't see the words Boy Scout mentioned in this article.

Reardon worked at St. Agnes Roman Catholic Church in
Middleton, 20 miles north of Boston, and was a YMCA swim
coach. He was arrested last year.

Christopher Reardon pleads guilty in Massachusetts child rape case

Former youth minister Christopher Reardon, left,
sits next to defense attorney John Andrews in
Superior Court in Salem, Mass. during a hearing
in which Reardon plead guilty to multiple charges
of child molestation.

By DENISE LAVOIE, Associated Press

SALEM, Mass. (July 9, 2001 4:47 p.m. EDT) - In what prosecutors called the biggest child sex-abuse case in Massachusetts history, a former youth minister and YMCA swim coach pleaded guilty Monday to raping and molesting boys.

Christopher Reardon, 29, had faced 130 counts involving 29 children. On Monday, he hung his head and responded "guilty" to dozens of charges - 75 by midafternoon - during a long hearing that included graphic details of the allegations.

He could get up to life in prison.

About 50 family members and friends of the victims, as well as six boys, showed no emotion as they listened in the courtroom. One woman sobbed as charges related to one of the victims, all identified as John Does, were read aloud.

Defense attorney John Andrews said Reardon decided to plead guilty - without any promise of a lenient sentence - because he wanted to spare the boys more harm. Eighteen had been expected to testify at a trial that had been set for Monday on most of the charges.

Reardon worked at St. Agnes Roman Catholic Church in Middleton, 20 miles north of Boston, and was a YMCA swim coach. He was arrested last year.

According to court records, police confiscated at least two dozen pornographic videos, photographs of nude children, inflatable dolls and sex toys from Reardon's home and office at the church. They also found a videotape of Reardon masturbating with a boy in the church rectory.

The molester's then-wife also discovered in their nightstand dozens of pages of charts and computerized spreadsheets filled with meticulous notes and descriptions of boys and how Reardon allegedly assaulted them.

Nationally, the Catholic Church has spent millions to settle sexual abuse cases over the past decade.

In the biggest known case, the Diocese of Dallas agreed in 1998 to pay more than $30 million to 11 former altar boys who said they were molested by a former priest Rudolph "Rudy" Kos. He was sentenced to life in prison.

In New Mexico, the archdiocese settled some 45 lawsuits alleging sexual abuse by former priest Jason Sigler. The amounts were kept confidential.

The Archdiocese of Boston over the last several years reportedly has paid millions to settle nearly two dozen molestation claims against John J. Geoghan, who served as a priest at five parishes 1962 and 1994.

324 Posted on 07/09/2001 14:53:09 PDT by spiker (spiker@ev1.net)
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To: JoeFromBurbank

Neither is acceptable.

OK, so if it's not acceptable to have a trusted, married Catholic Church leader serve as Boy Scout Leader, who is acceptable?

If the aim is to eliminate molestation, why wouldn't the priority be to reduce the opportunities to molest rather than relying on trying to estimate the chance that a man will someday molest a child, which is seemingly impossible anyway?

 

325 Posted on 07/09/2001 15:04:03 PDT by Looking for Diogenes
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To: MrChips

I heard the same newscast several times today. I told my wife this morning that if the communist media covered this story, they will emphasize the "youth minister" perspective of the story, and completely ignore his affiliation with the Boy Scouts. That might cause people to question the TRUE motivations 'behind' the sodomite assualt on the Boy Scouts.


326 Posted on 07/09/2001 15:07:35 PDT by who knows what evil?
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To: spiker

I don't see the words Boy Scout mentioned in this article.

Gee...I wonder why?


327 Posted on 07/09/2001 15:10:08 PDT by who knows what evil?
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To: Agamemnon, bribriagain

Sorry for not responding earlier but this thread got so long it took me a while to read the rest of the thread.

Perhaps I should expand on my reply in which I stated that I pulled my sons out of Scouting. Actually it was a mutual decision. My sons wanted out too. The homosexual controversy played just a minor role in the decision.

I was a scout when I was growing up, I was in for nearly 10 years, from Cub Scouts through Webelos and then on to Boy Scouts. Aside from the one summer where I am pretty sure a homosexual leader was attempting to have oral sex with the boys, it was a very positive experience.

But when I got my sons involved back in the mid 1990s, Scouting was totally different. It was sissified. For example, my son's Cub Scout Pack went on a nature hike one weekend. It was just a mile and a half and was over in less than 30 minutes! My sons and I have taken much longer walks in woods in back of our house!

Then the camping. For one thing, every child had to have a parent with him. And it was 80% mothers that showed up. This wasn't the way it was when I was in scouting! There was no archery, no BB guns, no whittling, none of the things I have fond memories of as a kid. Kids weren't even allowed to have jack knives. Instead, there were such lame activities a demonstration of native American dances (I'm not kidding) and a station to tie-dye T-shirts. At the campfire that night, they roped off with police tape an area at least 25 feet away from the fire. No toasting marshmallows on this camping trip. The songs they had us sing were the lamest of the lame. To make matters worse, most of the mothers (and even fathers) brought portable TVs and radios with them so after lights out, everybody was watching TV shows or listening to pop music.

Basically Scouting today is oversupervised and nannified to the extreme. That is the primary reason why I pulled my sons out of Scouting.

328 Posted on 07/09/2001 15:17:46 PDT by SamAdams76
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To: Looking for Diogenes

The aim of Scoutng is to have good role model for young boys to emulate. BSA feels that openly gay men are not proper role models.

Child molestation is another issue all together but it's being used by the liberal media as a tool to attack scouting.

Certainly the BSA is against molestation, certainly not all gay men are after young boys but everyone is missing the point here.

BSA feels that the gay lifestyle is a poor choice for a young man to make. Openly gay leaders might tend to advocate their idea that "gayness" is OK and that's not the message BSA wants to instill in it's youth members.

Most of these "hit pieces" also try to make the public think that BSA teaches boys to hate gays, this is not the case. BSA teaches respect for all beliefs, respecting someone else's beliefs does not require you to incorporate those beliefs into your own value system.

329 Posted on 07/09/2001 15:26:34 PDT by JoeFromBurbank
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To: truthsetsfree

"It's hard to be suspicious of someone who appeared to be doing so much good."

The Greatest thing evil can do is pretend it doesn't exist

330 Posted on 07/09/2001 15:31:40 PDT by Free_at_last_-2001
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To: SamAdams76

You are confusing Cub Scout's with Boy Scouts. Cub Scouts IS a family program, and yes mothers sometimes do get to go camping. Once a boy joins Boy Scouts, the program is much more boy run, parents take more of a background support role.

Do you really expect second and third grade boys to go on 50 mile hikes with 10 to 12 miles covered in one day? Just try this and you'll find that most younger boys will drop out .

The Scout program is set up to be appropriate for each age level involved and tries to be neither too easy or to hard for the boy's age and grade level.

 

331 Posted on 07/09/2001 15:35:21 PDT by JoeFromBurbank
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To: truthsetsfree

I'd like to forward a copy of this to the Los Angeles City Council.

332 Posted on 07/09/2001 16:08:19 PDT by Nachum
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To: MrChips

I just heard the CBS Radio account. He is not being referred to as a Boy Scout leader. He is, it seems, a "youth minister." Barf!

Barf indeed! CNN had the same slant and I'm a' barfin'!

333 Posted on 07/09/2001 16:19:13 PDT by truthsetsfree
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To: truthsetsfree

Know how they reported it on NPR? Former youth minister...not a word about the man's homosexuality that I could hear in the segment.

334 Posted on 07/09/2001 16:25:48 PDT by skr
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To: hattend

Start a new thread 2....this one is up to 675K!!!!

Thank you, thank you, one and all!

Surely I deserve an award of some kind for originating this long-enduring discussion? (kidding).

Seriously, though, this is one of the best threads I've seen, thanks to the many thoughtful comments posted.

335 Posted on 07/09/2001 16:33:16 PDT by truthsetsfree
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To: truthsetsfree

Sorry, can't (won't) read your post....I ain't downloading 701K threads. Freepmail me.

336 Posted on 07/09/2001 16:39:25 PDT by hattend
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To: Angelique

re #316:
Yep... legitimize, normalize, equalize.
Of course, their buddies over at NAMBLA headquarters will be helping out, too.

337 Posted on 07/09/2001 16:40:34 PDT by TheGrimReaper
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To: SamAdams76

Thanks, Mr. Adams. Your account of postmodern Boy Scout camping is depressing, though not surprising.

I was a Boy Scout in the early 1970s. Among the most memorable experiences were our great Acorn Wars. The boys would divide into two warring nations, and, armed with as many acorns as could be carried in four pockets and two fists, the boys would march through the woods looking for the enemy. When the two forces met, you could hear the sound of acorns whistling through the air, cutting leaves, thwacking against bark. Occasionally, there was a howl of pain and a boy would be seem writhing on the ground, grasping the flesh where the little bullet hit. Man, did those things sting! The intrepid compratiots of an injured boy would try to drag him away from the enemy line, before he could be captured or pelted with more acorns. Many of these braves souls were also pelted.

I gather from your post, that such activities would not go over well in the current nanny state. Too bad. These mock wars had the potential to instill such vitues as patrotism, loyalty, bravery, self- sacrifice, so forth.

Nevertheless, I think it is desirable that parents, including mothers, be present during campouts. In my troop, there were boys involved in destructive and immoral behavior, including sexual acting out with each other in the tents at night. This type of harmful behavior would probably not have occurred if more parents had been present during the campouts.

If only parents would stop worrying about seatbelts and bicycle helmets -- the things that have to do with the body -- and start standing up for the children against the more significant dangers to their souls -- those that come from the Hollywood, the news media, video games, homosexual activists, etc.

338 Posted on 07/09/2001 17:07:34 PDT by truthsetsfree
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To: truthsetsfree

I heard the news several times today that this gay...er, guy..had pleaded guilty. Not one time did I hear it mentioned that he was involved with the Boy Scouts, only with a church

Broadcast news (Fox not included), "fair and balanced.." HA!

339 Posted on 07/09/2001 17:08:28 PDT by Macklew
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To: truthsetsfree

INTERESTING cnn ONLINE HEADLINE ON THIS CASE...

"Church youth leader pleads guilty to molestations"

Gee, and I thought the media couldn't RESIST discussing homosexuality and Boy Scouts in the same sentence.

340 Posted on 07/09/2001 17:35:41 PDT by rdww
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To: garbanzo

obviously the ban didn't work

The right of the BSA to make it the official policy of their organization to exclude openly gay leaders is the demonstration of their mission, which is to promote the development of "morally straight" young men. No one ever said it would prevent homosex practicing individuals from using their positions of trust to abuse the boys. We also have laws against murder, but it seems to happen anyway. Should we abolish them because they don't work????

342 Posted on 07/09/2001 17:54:59 PDT by PLK
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To: team east

In fact, other articles and TV reports have made mention of the fact that it was his *wife* who found pornographic materials in their nightstand, leading to his eventual arrest.

If he had sex with males, whether young or old, he is homosexual. If he had sexual relations with a female, as well, he is labelled "bisexual." Therefore, he is either homsexual or bisexual. To imply that this was a garden-variety heterosexual who just happened to prefer young boys to young girls demonstrates the bias in your thinking.

344 Posted on 07/09/2001 18:03:30 PDT by PLK
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To: truthsetsfree

Don't forget: Northhampton Mass has the nickname of "Lesbianville USA."

346 Posted on 07/09/2001 18:44:07 PDT by badboynofear
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To: badboynofear

Wow, man, y'all are really good at either a) believing everything you read, or b) making stuff up.

Nice try.

The man in question has at no time said he is gay. In fact, he was married to a woman.

For any of you interested in the whole story:

July 9, 2001

Man Pleads Guilty to Molestations
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

SALEM, Mass. (AP) -- A former church youth leader and YMCA swim coach who used his jobs to befriend young boys pleaded guilty Monday in what prosecutors called the biggest child sex-abuse case in Massachusetts history.

Christopher Reardon, 29, had faced 130 counts involving 29 children. On Monday, he hung his head and responded ``guilty'' to 75 charges during a five-hour hearing that included graphic details of the allegations.

He could get up to life in prison at his Aug. 17 sentencing.

``The defendant essentially exploited his position of authority and trust,'' prosecutor Robert Brennan said.

About 50 family members and friends of the victims, as well as six boys, listened to the pleas. Several sobbed as the details were explained, and many embraced when the judge formally accepted the plea.

The victims all were identified as John Does.

Defense attorney John Andrews said Reardon decided to plead guilty -- without any promise of a lenient sentence -- because he wanted to spare the boys more harm. Eighteen had been expected to testify at a trial that had been set for Monday on most of the charges.

While he responded guilty to 75 accusations, the court recorded guilty pleas on eight charges of rape of a child, each of which carries a maximum sentence of life in prison. One of the eight pleas was made under the Alford doctrine, in which the defendant maintains innocence but admits prosecutors have enough evidence to win a conviction.

Reardon's parents attended the hearing. His father, John Reardon, read a brief statement afterwards, saying ``We hope there is compassion in the community where Chris has spent his whole life.''

Reardon led religion classes for children at St. Agnes Roman Catholic Church in Middleton, 20 miles north of Boston. He also directed the Danvers YMCA Summer Day Camp. Prosecutors said he used both jobs to ``systematically'' befriend boys before his arrest last year.

According to court records, police confiscated at least two dozen pornographic videos, photographs of nude children, inflatable dolls and sex toys from Reardon's home and office at the church. They also found a videotape of Reardon masturbating with a boy in the church rectory and instructions on how to have sex with young boys -- and what to do if they show reluctance.

The molester's then-wife also discovered in their nightstand dozens of pages of charts and computerized spreadsheets filled with meticulous notes and descriptions of boys and how Reardon allegedly assaulted them.

Nationally, the Catholic Church has spent millions over the past decade to settle sexual abuse cases involving its priests.

In the biggest known case, the Diocese of Dallas agreed in 1998 to pay more than $30 million to 11 former altar boys who said they were molested by a former priest Rudolph ``Rudy'' Kos. He was sentenced to life in prison.

In New Mexico, the archdiocese settled some 45 lawsuits alleging sexual abuse by former priest Jason Sigler. The amounts were kept confidential.

The Archdiocese of Boston over the last several years reportedly has paid millions to settle nearly two dozen molestation claims against John J. Geoghan, who served as a priest at five parishes 1962 and 1994.

347 Posted on 07/09/2001 19:48:00 PDT by profondeur
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To: A2J

Yeah, just like your friend James Jeffords,

Hahaha.. now THAT is funny.

349 Posted on 07/09/2001 21:31:56 PDT by DAnconia55
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To: A2J

Now if we can only clear the lines of the likes of the blockages D'Aconica55, .... and garbanzo make, we'll be doing fine.

We've been here years longer than you have, sport.

350 Posted on 07/09/2001 21:32:54 PDT by DAnconia55
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To: team east

Psst... you're singing out of tune. Someone's going to report you to choirmaster Jim.

Jim does not endorse this hatred. And as he's said in the past, this website isn't a place for discussion about what people do in their bedrooms...

A child molestor is a child molestor. It absolutely does not matter what his/her sexual preference is.

351 Posted on 07/09/2001 21:35:26 PDT by DAnconia55
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To: purple haze

Homosexuals are much more prone to pedophilia.

352 Posted on 07/09/2001 21:43:51 PDT by mark_interrupted (forrestg@nbnet.nb.ca)
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To: chainsaw

Don't count on it.

353 Posted on 07/09/2001 21:44:54 PDT by mark_interrupted
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To: Saundra Duffy

Bump to read later

354 Posted on 07/09/2001 22:14:12 PDT by VMI70
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To: DAnconia55

"We've been here years longer than you have, sport."

Is that why you're so cynical?

355 Posted on 07/09/2001 22:20:20 PDT by A2J
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To: Harley_hog

Ben Franklin putted from the rough, it can be revealed.

356 Posted on 07/09/2001 22:58:12 PDT by ehat
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To: DAnconia55

I've seen pro-perversion moral-liberals shown the door on many ocassions.

357 Posted on 07/09/2001 23:01:14 PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: team east; Jim Robinson

team east disruptor since July 9th, 2001

Your post #343: "Someone's going to report you to choirmaster Jim."
Your post #345: "...he should be flushed from the toilet that is freerepublic.com!!!"

If this website is such a sewer (a strange analogy coming from one who lauds the open sewer pit of the homosexual's bedroom), perhaps you should reconsider your participation here.

358 Posted on 07/09/2001 23:06:37 PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: JoeFromBurbank

Child molestation is another issue all together...

Child molestation, not role modeling, is what this article is about. If you want role models, what better role model than a 'youth minister, Boy Scout leader, YMCA swim coach?'

But if you're trying to prevent the kids from being molested, excluding openly gay men from the Boy Scouts is not going to help at all. They are not the ones doing the molesting.

The aim of Scoutng is to have good role model for young boys to emulate.

"The aim of the Boy Scouts is to supplement the various existing agencies, and to promote the ability in boys to do things for themselves and others. ... All that is needed is the out-of-doors, a group of boys, and a competent leader."
The Boy Scouts Handbook, 1911

359 Posted on 07/09/2001 23:24:13 PDT by Looking for Diogenes
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To: John O,all

Sexual orientation is a myth.

Or are you hoping it's a myth? There are people who have intense sexual attraction to people of the same sex - this is what the phrase "sexual orientation" attempts to describe. Just as I have intense sexual interest in women, some men have intense sexual interest in men. However, the choice of sexual partner may differ from what one might ideally desire. Men in prison lacking any other sexual outlet may engage in sex with other men (usually as the dominant partner) while maintaining sexual interest in women - i.e. they are completely heterosexual outside the prison environment. Many homosexuals are pressured into getting married and often have children while remaining homosexually oriented. They may be faithful while in marriage but still maintaining a strong attraction towards the same sex.

It should be pointed out here that our pervert was at the time he committed his crimes, a married man, i.e. the ban was ineffective in finding him.

360 Posted on 07/10/2001 04:08:20 PDT by garbanzo
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To: Cultural Jihad

From the Book of Romans (NIV):

17 For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness,
19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.
20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.
25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
28 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.
29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,
30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents;
31 they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
32 Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

 

361 Posted on 07/10/2001 04:26:04 PDT by Harley_hog
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To: garbanzo

There are people who have intense sexual attraction to people of the same sex - this is what the phrase "sexual orientation" attempts to describe

There are people who have intense desires to kill, intense desires to steal, intense desires to self-mutlilate, intense desires to drink or do drugs, and intense desires to perform any number of obssessive/compulsive behaviors also. All these things are not orientations. They are at best behavior choices and at worst mental illnesses. In any event they are sin.

Sexual orientation is a myth. Only the resulting behavior matters. The behavior can be controlled and the underlying illness can be cured.

GSA(P)

362 Posted on 07/10/2001 05:39:23 PDT by John O
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To: Belial

The ministry, and the Catholic pristhood in partucular, have been "hideouts" for homosexuals. Many have admitted that they entered the priesthood since it demanded celibacy and therefore their homosexuality would not be an issue. Sadly, that is exploitation of a Church and christianity.

I often wonder if other homosexuals have joined the Catholic church out of their hatred for that institution. In other words, as invaders. What better mockery of an institution than to place yourself among their members and leaders. Similar to the idea of disruptors joining Free Republic.

363 Posted on 07/10/2001 06:28:14 PDT by Paine's Ghost
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To: truthsetsfree

bttttt

364 Posted on 07/10/2001 06:31:01 PDT by dennisw
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To: whyhate?

1 in 3 girls is molested or raped by the time she is 18
statistic is 1 in 9 for boys

And the source of your statistics are? The raw data can be found at? The methodology to gather this information is? Look, light-weight, when you come to this site and sling your slime, be prepared to back it up. Your not in some gay bar back on the block.

365 Posted on 07/10/2001 06:38:02 PDT by Paine's Ghost
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To: JoeFromBurbank

His repeated pattern is that he molests children. To draw inferences from that is purely speculative.

 

366 Posted on 07/10/2001 07:35:01 PDT by MAW
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To: truthsetsfree

One thing I have noticed is that whenever there is a less than complementary post about homosexuals, members of Free Republic whom I have never seen post before come out of the woodwork to defend them. I can only assume that the gays are maintaining a surveillance of Free Republic, 7x24.

Frankly, I am ready to let the entire issue go.  I am not too impressed with men having sex with men (though women ... well, another time).  I, as always, am a defender of individual rights.  Those rights are extended to homosexuals in that they are individuals too.  Nevertheless, people also have the right NOT to associate with homosexuals, to not permit them in their homes of places of business, if they so desire.  If I want to keep people out of my home (or business) because they have red-hair, that is my choice and probably not good business.

It is only the government that must treat all people blindly, not private institutions. That is why I believe that privatization of as many possible functions now performed by the government is the only possible answer.  We home school, so the issue of gay teachers is not an issue for us any longer.  The Boy Scouts of America is a private institution, and should be treated as such.  If they don't want to admit gays, so be it.  If gays want to start a Gay Boy Scouts of America and refuse to admit non-gays, so be it.  As far as the use of parks, camps, etc., etc., which is presently “wrongly” under the control of the government, the government, must remain neutral to all issues.  This means it should have no voice in the Boys Scouts restriction of gay members nor should the government be able to "act" as private owner of "tax-payers" property and restrict Boy Scouts from using these properties.

Personally I don't think it is appropriate for homosexuals to be in our military, boy-scouts and other close-quartered institutions for the same reason that I don't think it appropriate for men (or lesbians) to be present in little girls’ bathrooms.  The fact that certain groups of people are sexually attracted to another group is the primary reason to keep them separated under closed situations where a modicum of privacy is expected from those who may view them with a sexual interest.

Rocket science is down the hall.

367 Posted on 07/10/2001 07:38:52 PDT by Paine's Ghost
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To: MAW

** The Foolish Clay Pot **

Some people like to twist and contort Christianity
To suit their liberal views.
"We abolish those prohibitions," they say,
While ignoring what Jesus said, what the Apostles said.
Whenever the Bible contradicts the current, fashionable liberal views,
Which do the liberals throw out? Their own views? Or the Bible?
Twenty years from now, stealing will be okay.
They'll say that thieves are somehow forced by society to steal.
They'll throw out the Eighth Commandment, as well.

Imagine people telling God what religion should be!
God's motives for His prohibitions are deep and hidden.
God says "No." That's reason enough for me.
That's THE reason.

WHY God says "No" is harder to understand.
Why man and woman?
Why not man and man? Or woman and woman?
Why not live by threes? Or by sixes? Or alone?
Not because He's arbitrary. There's a reason there.

The union of male and female in marriage,
Becomes a symbol, a hint, a clue,
About the Divine Reality.
In the union of a man and a woman,
A whole new life is created,
Symbolic of the union of the soul with God,
Creating new life, a wonderful love,
Shared between God and the soul.
Out of the eternal love between the Father and the Son,
Comes new life, the Holy Spirit, existing from Eternity.
Man and woman, becoming one,
Brings new life, the baby,
To reflect the Divine Reality.
There's a reason for everything.
He's trying to show us things,
So we can get closer to Him.
Man and woman, becoming one,
It will be made clear in the Afterlife.

People who violate that arrangement,
Than economy, that plan,
Make a mockery of God.
The arrogant, the foolhardy, the hubristic, the conceited, say:
"I do only what makes sense to me now."

Does the earthen clay pot understand
The Potter Who created it?
The pot says, "I wasn't made to hold water,
I think I was made to run in a race!"
Disaster for the pot,
For the pot is destroyed.

The pot says, "I wasn't made to hold water,
I think I was made to, um, fly off the shelf!"
Disaster for the pot,
For the pot is destroyed.

Source: The Wisdom of the Ages

368 Posted on 07/10/2001 07:49:33 PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: MAW

Male + male sex = Homosexual = gay

369 Posted on 07/10/2001 09:46:25 PDT by JoeFromBurbank
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To: truthsetsfree

Bump

370 Posted on 07/10/2001 10:22:19 PDT by topher
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To: profondeur, MAW

You cant change the definition of gay, it means what it means. if he is attracted to a person of the same sex he is gay, period...I don’t care if he also has sex with woman, goats and lawn chairs. He was having sex with young men, we are not talking about the cub scouts here so the “he just likes children” argument is obsolete (and in my opinion is obsolete anyways. Male who likes sex with males = homosexual or gay. The word means what it means. While not all homosexuals are pedophiles, all male pedophiles that target males are gay And while I myself am not a Christian, I do agree someone who considers himself or herself a Christian and believes in the bible should adhere to its rules. The bible does speak out against a man laying with another man as he would a woman and that is all thee is to it. I believe its in Deuteronomy. ..but I could be mistaken There is no changing the laws of their god to suit a lifestyle like there is no changing the definition of a word. Its not just semantics.

371 Posted on 07/10/2001 12:08:26 PDT by caustic_milk
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To: Cultural Jihad

Great post! Bump

372 Posted on 07/10/2001 15:44:31 PDT by EdReform
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To: caustic_milk

I do agree someone who considers himself or herself a Christian and believes in the bible should adhere to its rules.

Actually all people are obligated to adhere to the kindness of religious morality and ethical values, regardless of their personal beliefs or lack thereof.

373 Posted on 07/10/2001 17:27:50 PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: mark_interrupted

Oh.

374 Posted on 07/10/2001 20:07:55 PDT by purple haze
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To: Cultural Jihad

Now there is a load of meaninglessness.
A queer by any other name is still a queer and an abomination to society.
The Bible points that out and THAT is where "religious morality" originates.
This fat ass ought to be put into the general population at the State prison. Perhaps he could convince them of his righteousness! Or not.

375 Posted on 07/10/2001 21:08:45 PDT by Roadstar
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To: ehat

Where exactly does the article say this gentleman was a homosexual-American? (FYI, the majority of pedophiles are heterosexual-American).

When a MAN sexually molests 29 BOYS, the male-male sexual activity would qualify the person (I can't quite extend the term "gentleman" to this person) as a homosexual. There is really no relevance to your use of the hyphenated American reference. If you cannot infer from the facts presented that this individual is homosexual, you are just dense.

376 Posted on 07/10/2001 21:36:43 PDT by VRWCmember
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To: Cultural Jihad

That’s fine, but you are not going to win any argument over something as interpretable as morals with some one who doesn’t share your views on it. The win all statement in this argument is that the boy scouts is a Christian organization, therefore should reflect Christian values. Anyone who wants to become a member of a Christian organization should have Christian values, which homosexuality is not a part of. Being an “open homosexual” goes directly against the laws of the bible, and someone who is “openly homosexual” should not expect that to be over looked by a Christian organization.

377 Posted on 07/11/2001 09:16:39 PDT by caustic_milk
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To: caustic_milk

Bump

378 Posted on 07/11/2001 11:33:09 PDT by EdReform
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