On Tue, 7 Aug 2001 09:11:44 -0700 "John D. Taylor" <jota@gorge.net> writes:
>
>
> On 7 Aug 01, at 15:20, Victoria wrote:
>
> > sorry, buck, but i'm not giving here -- i was sexually abused by my
> > father as well as a couple of my wacko mother's fleeting "boyfriends"
> > and a neighbor, and i totally refuse to argue any point of that here -
> > - you guys don't take it seriously.
>
> Victoria
>
> I and many men think it is a very serious crime and hold the death
> penalty as an
> appropriate punishment, BUT until women deal with their propensity
> to LIE, it will be
> extremely difficult to take any women's word at face value.
>
> This Lying is what N.O.W. wants to hide by their endless efforts to
> achieve the Holy
> Grail of right, VICTIM STATUS FOR WOMEN.
>
> If a women will lie about a man, she will lie to other women and to
> herself. This
> makes for a better world?
>
> (AND DON'T TAKE WHAT I WROTE AS BEING POINTED AT YOU, IT IS NOT)
>
> JT
>
> >
> > all i can say is, those of you who have daughters (or sons, for  that
> > fact, i know several men who were sexually abused as children  also) --
> > Watch Out For Them. there are many signs, and very, very few
> > children will come out and tell anyone (there's lots of reasons,  but
> > here is NOT the forum).
> >
> > this is the END of that subject for me.
> >
> > victoria
> >
> > --- In Fathers_are_Parents_too@y..., "Buck" <pabuckrub@y...>   wrote:
> > > Oh my God...give me a break. I better watch or someone might sneak
> > around a corner and shove a penis in my mouth or something and then I
> > wouldn't tell anybody about it...GIVE ME A BREAK!!!
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Victoria
> > > To: Fathers_are_Parents_too@y...
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 3:18 PM
> > > Subject: [Fathers_are_Parents_too] Re: Poem Written by a  Manhater
> > and not a Kid
> > >
> > >
> > > > > but how do "we" (society as a whole) protect the chidren?  statistics
> > > > > are fine and dandy, but if the only make us shake our head and
> > > > > say "tsk tsk, what a shame", how can society intervene?   false
> > > > > allegations of abuse are filed all the time, and how can they all
> > > > > possibly be checked out? and what if allegations deemed "false" are
> > > > > not checked out but true?
> > > >
> > > > If they can not be checked out, they should not be taking any action.
> > > >
> > >
> > > how the hell do you "check out" something like a father (or other
> > > male relative) sneaking into his daughter's bedroom at night and
> > > shoving his penis in her mouth?!?! or it could be a teacher in a
> > > coatroom after school, or a neighbor in a garage or garden, or a
> > > friend even in your own house. no one's around, there's no physical
> > > evidence, and the child is most likely terrified because she
> a)
> > > thinks it's her fault, she's been bad or she's been "flirty",
> or
> > b)
> > > she's been threatened!!!
> > >
> > > i hope you don't have daughters relying on you for protection...
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > i'm the first to admit (better sit down for this one, jt)
>
> > that
> > > > > mothers are by FAR the worst about filing false
> allegations
> > of
> > > abuse
> > > > > against fathers in an attempt to manipulate the system
> > > >
> > > > You are completely in error if you think the "ranting of
> this
> > > lunatic" were for the
> > > > purpose of bashing women. The issue, once again, is
> overcoming
> > a
> > > presumption of,
> > > > mothers are the only parent a child needs and all men are
> bad.
> > >
> > >
> > > wasn't i AGREEING with you?? taking a stand AGAINST lying
> > mothers??
> > >
> > >
> > > > To do this requires presenting enough evidence to support
> this
> > > change of position
> > > > and refuting any evidence presented which does not support
> the
> > > change.
> > > >
> > > > But so many women think it absolutely essential to our case,
> we
> > > identify all the "real
> > > > deadbeat dads" and acknowledge not all men are good. Even
>
> > though
> > > this has
> > > > nothing to do with what we hope to prove and really only
> > buttresses
> > > the opposition's
> > > > argument.
> > >
> > >
> > > again, i didn't even bring this issue up here!
> > >
> > >
> > > > -- many of
> > > > > these allegations are in the form of allegations of sexual
>
> > abuse,
> > > i
> > > > > think because it's more "taboo" and harder to prove or
> > disprove
> > > than
> > > > > physical abuse or even neglect. a few years back mothers
>
> > found
> > > that
> > > > > if they said "he touched her" the court would intervene
> > > immediately a
> > > > > good deal of the time; but then the court decided so many
>
> > > > > were "crying wolf" and many fewer were taken seriously.
> > > > >
> > > > > SO we have a dilemma -- regarding ALL abuse, the "system"
> has
> > two
> > > > > choices -- investigate all claims, spending much more
> money
> > > > > investigating many claims that are false; or be more
> choosey
> > > about
> > > > > which claims are investigated, and miss some in the
> process.
> > a
> > > > > double edged sword.
> > > >
> > > > Dilemma? Not at all! You would not think of taking a
> person's
> > car
> > > without paying for
> > > > it, but to take a person's integrity and freedom creates a
> > dilemma
> > > because of the
> > > > cost?
> > > >
> > > > If society cannot, or will not pay the price, they will have
>
> > only
> > > devalued the freedom
> > > > and integrity they hold so dear.
> > > >
> > >
> > > so which of the two options above are you condoning? check
> out
> > all
> > > allegations, or be more choosey? any possibility of a
> straight
> > > answer on this one? and i'm not sure i understand the "car"
> > example..
> > >
> > > > > ** disclaimer -- not one comment in this post was made in
> an
> > > attempt
> > > > > to be confrontational or in a "tongue in cheek" manner;
> i'm
> > truly
> > > > > interested in opinions on this topic, and others of you
> have
> > > > > expressed concern, also.
> > >
> > > victoria