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The following was posted to Rod Van Mechelen's egroups called "backlash" at   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/backlash/message/20359 on December 6, 2000.

Rod Van Mechelen then complained that we were "posting behind his back" on December 10 at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/backlash/message/20481

His complaint is that we objected to his complaining that we are "nazis", and that he contacted the "Anti-Defamation League".

 

Rod Van Mechelen

Responses in red!

On Sunday, December 03, 2000 9:42 AM Subject: Re: [Patriarchy] How Hate Mongers Try To Discredit, Rod Van Mechelen rodvan@backlash.com opined:

Anything anybody here writes to counter the hate mongers whose
efforts tend to discredit our efforts - particularly if it's well
documented and erudite - I would appreciate posting on backlash.com.

 

Please don't forget to post this response to your screed in the appropriate place, Rod.

 

Back when I was making enough money to think I could hire some folks
to help do the research required to effectively oppose Knight & co's
nonsense, I contacted the E.D. of the Seattle ADL office.

Thing about the ADL is, they're not entirely clean, either. Go to
their site you will find propaganda. But, I figured if anybody would
have solid data to oppose anti-Semetic propaganda, it would be them.

 


Well, this missive explains why it's been so long since you were "
making enough money to think" because you clearly aren't thinking by contacting the organization which the FBI listed as the top terrorist organization in the country.  If it weren't for the fact that threatening to contact the FBI about some mud's little tryst with terrorists would be about equivalent to threatening them with a wet noodle these days, maybe we wouldn't think about asking Osama Bin Ladin to add you to his list.

The real problem with your admission here is that you trivialize real "anti-semitism" by falsely accusing Christians of "hate" when you couldn't be further from the truth.  What do you think people will think of you if, even after your favorite terrorist organization obviously dismissed you as a nut, you continue to spout the same Pavlovian rhetoric?

 

He kindly sent me copies of the materials they've assembled and
referred me to websites I'd already reviewed. Unfortunately, their
efforts are in the same vein - that is, they counter propaganda with
propaganda.

 

uh, excuse me.  We didn't start this propaganda, THEY did.  All we did was ask "hmm, where is the evidence of 6 million dead JEWS", and all they did was threaten to throw anybody who dared to question their integrity in prison.  You don't think such an emotional over-response deserves some introspection? They still haven't provided a single shred of forensic evidence here, and when there are six million dead bodies involved, there will be a LOT of forensic evidence http://fathersmanifesto.com/holocaust.htm   At least post a copy of our "propaganda" as proof that it exists anywhere, other than in your cash-starved "thinking process".

 

What I mean by that is, Knight and his ilk say, "How do you know the
holocaust really happened? Were you there?" They reply in kind:
"How can you deny it?"

Knight says, "Before the war there were 8 buhzillion Jews, after the
war there were 12 buhzillion Jews, where's the decimation?" They
reply in kind, "Yeh, but, 4 buhzillion were killed in Poland, etc."

Neither side produces supporting documentation. Just propaganda.

 

Oh, do you now dispute the references in the World Almanac and Encyclopedia Britannica which were published worldwide BEFORE the jews cooked up the oh poor me jew campaign to get sympathy?  If you dispute it, why don't you say so before?  These are the references which show that the worldwide population of jews BEFORE the very first concentration camp was ever built had already decreased by 2.6%.   These figures are undisputable.  Not even the jews dispute this figure.   In fact, they PROVIDED these figures.  On what basis do you now dispute them?

Had the KNOWN rate of decrease in jews worldwide merely continued uninterrupted until 1994, there would have been 13.5 million jews in the world, which happens to be EXACTLY the figure which jews today insist is accurate and which is now in reputable almanacs. Do you also dispute this figure, and on what basis?

To achieve supreme victimhood status, you must studiously ignore that during WWII the population of all of Europe decreased 12%, which occurred ONLY because of 48 million DEAD CHRISTIANS.

Don't you think that it's a bit odd that you stumble all over yourself defending 6 million mythically dead jews while almost completely oblivious to 8 TIMES as many CHRISTIANS who are KNOWN to be just as dead, if not deader, than those 6 million jews?

Your erudite argument is tantamount to saying:   "There are 8 quadrillion cubits of Swiss Cheese on the dark side of the moon, and if you disagree with me I will accuse you of being a nazi and of conducting a hate propaganda campaign and will whine and whine until you are thrown into prison".   Nobody cares if there is cheese on the moon.  Nobody cares how vehemently you believe it.  Nobody even asks that you prove it.  Only a few meek minded lame brains will permit you to remove $132 billion from the US Treasury because of it.   The whole world knows that you are right about only one thing:  you are right that we can't PROVE that there is no cheese on the dark side of the moon.

So what?  All this does is distract your short attention span from 48 million dead Christians.

 

Now, in a few years I will have some serious money. I won't have to
work for a living, but I will because working will produce the
revenue I need to pay for the kind of research needed to counter this
kind of hatred.

 

 

Right, Rod.  Your track record ain't so hot to date, is it?  With this level of scholarship, you'd better take your expected, undeserved windfall and retire rather than grace the internet with your wisdom.  It was not too long ago that you seemed to have some potential in the backlash against feminism, but this one paragraph put you in a class of muds which ended that expectation.

 

 

I expect to do this under the auspices of backlash.com, reserving
equalitarian.org for negotiating peace in the wake of the dismantling
done by backlash.com.

Assuming I live that long. Jeez, I'm only 48 but I already feel like
an old man.

And I'm only one guy. This effort will take many. So, until the
day when I can afford to pay people to work with us to do the grunt
work, I would be obliged to post on backlash.com anything you do to
counters this threat.

warmest regards, rod

 

 

Yeah, warmest regards, Rod.  There are two billion Christians in the world who send you their warmest regards too.

We regard that you will be very warm for eons to come.

hot.gif (13858 bytes)

 

 

ps--the ADL had an excellent list of patriot organizations in the country.  Next time you talk to them, please ask them what happened to our request to be added to it.

 

pps--whoops, also ask them why they took down such an excellent resource.  It seems to be missing, but we kept  a copy of it at http://fathersmanifesto.com/wiesenthal.htm for posterity--not to mention evidence.

 

 

 

At 07:41 AM 12/3/00 +0100, Jan Deichmohle wrote:
>How Hate Mongers Try To Discredit
>
>Though I would have preferred not to forward such material,
>the unfortunate list controversy requires evidence for the
>need to protect us against attempts to discredit us and
>other wings.
>
>The quotations below are abominable and there's no link and
>association at all. Other issues of their agenda were never
>real; they were pretended for associating others with them
>and long back abandoned.
>
>Do you need a poll concerning list policy, i.e. whether you
>prefer restricting merely cross-posting or restricting
>association?
>
>The current version restricts association, that is posting
>without opposing their agenda, because that could be
>misused against us.
>
>http://www.egroups.de/files/patriarchy/Kalender/rules.htm
>
>A previous version mentioned cross-posting and forwarding
>only. Since the hate stuff got worse and included inciting
>violence. We risk that enemies construct a harmful
>association.
>
>The hate trash has become too bad for ignoring.
>Contributing to the pretended (previous) agenda without
>explicitly opposing the hate stuff could be misinterpreted
>in a harmful way. It would be difficult to overcome such a
>constructed association.
>
>The URLs have been abbreviated to avoid an unwanted
>advertising effect.
>
>That's the abominable stuff we need to protect against:
>
>http://fr.egroups.ca/message/chr..id../2707
> >It's way past time to send the blacks to Africa and the
> >Jews to Madagascar.
>
>At other times they threaten to spill their blood.
>
> >Time to make the blood flow
>
> >we should be killing them here too (SandraH)
>
>That sender gets approving replies. John Knight also stated
>that merely expelling them would be "way too kind" and that
>the possession of the expelled should be confiscated.
> >From: <tcffc2...@yahoo.com>
> >Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 09:38:51 -0800
> >doesn't allow them to take ANYTHING ...
>
> >Jews must leave, and they must leave under the same
> >conditions...
>
> >Furthermore, we have to get proactive about
> >locating the loot jews have stashed all around the world.
> >We could probably pay off our public debt with it...
> >John Knight
>
>Another evil resemblance.
>
>repeal../27538
> >Date: Mo, 27. Nov 2000 6:00pm
> >For that alone, an eon in Madagascar is way too kind.
> >John Knight
>
>repeal../27547
>From: Christian Party <tcffc2000@y...> [John Knight]
> >Subject: WORLD WIDE TOTALITARIANISM
> >Date: Mo, 27. Nov 2000 8:31pm
> >Pernaleninstein, we are REQUIRED, by ...
> >and by the words of Jesus Christ,
> >to cleanse our society of the filth and amorality of jews.
>
>Blasphemy! Jesus taught love, not ethnical cleansing!
>
>repeal../27526
> >If it takes "WORLD WIDE TOTALITARIANISM" to restore
> >this Christian
>
>BLASPHEMY!
>
> >nation to a modicum of sanity, then
> >"WORLD WIDE TOTALITARIANISM" is what we need.
> >
> >Countries like Germany, who've already booted out all but
> >25,000 jews, and Spain, who've booted them ALL out, and
> >Russia, whose premier is right now in the process of
> >finalizing that process
>...
> >who will benefit from knowing
> >that you are securely deposited in Madagascar.
> >John Knight
>
>That includes everybody opposing the view of the hate
>monger. Every opponent is defined as "Jew".
>
>To an opponent on his lists he replied:
>
> >Go to Madagascar and practice your
> >brand of "freedom", because you are no
> >longer welcome here.
>
>The agenda is evil and discrediting to a degree, that we
>need to avoid getting discredited by association.
>The purpose of the hate company is to discredit us. It's a
>fake group. What they once pretended as issues was
>abandoned and never was more than a pretext for luring
>people into discrediting themselves.
>
>They're agents working for the feminist side.
>
>-Jan-
>
>Patriarchy is based on love and firmly opposes hatred.
>
>--- Forwarded FYI:
>
>From: Bill Cervantes <bill_cervantes@altavista.com>
>Subject: UPDATE: More Hatred Of Knight's Hate Company
>
>They're discrediting REAL opposition by pretending a FAKE
>one.
>
>They're discrediting REAL opposition by associating it
>with hateful trash.
>
>They're destroying liberty and freedom of speech by misuse.
>
>The best way of discrediting opposition is by associating
>it with abominable hatred.
>
>The best way of keeping opposition from achieving anything
>is by pretending a FAKE opposition.
>
>The best way to introduce hate crime laws and to prepare
>oppression of opposition is to associate opposition with
>hatred.
>
> >Time to make the blood flow
>
> >we should be killing them here too
>
>
>When will they get a Nuremberg trial?!
>
>
>http://www.egroups.de/message/repeal..th/27284
>
> >With the election being railroaded in Florida by the
> >jews, we should be killing them here too. It is time to
> >make blood flow in the streets of Washington, or, would
> >Americans rather watch their own revolution on TV?
> >(Sandra_H <Sandra_H@p...>)
>
>http://www.egroups.de/message/repeal..th/27293
>
> >With no doubt, jews are too stupid to be classified as
> >Caucasians. Jews do have Caucasian blood in them which
> >is the only thing separating them from apes and monkeys
> >and blacks of Africa.
> > (John Knight)
>
>http://www.egroups.de/message/repeal..th/27293
>
> >Turks have an entirely different attitude about life
> >than Christians.
>
>A grotesque mixture of racism with matter of believe,
>culture and lifestyle. All three of them are a matter of
>tradition and individual having NOTHING TO DO WITH ETHNIC
>or race.
>
>More Evidence For Racist Hatred:
>
>http://www.egroups.de/message/repeal..th/27147
>
>They're discrediting REAL opposition by pretending a FAKE
>one.
>
>They're discrediting REAL opposition by associating it
>with hateful trash.
>
>They're destroying liberty and freedom of speech by
>misuse.
>
>Bill Cervantes
>
>-- En repeal19th@egroups.com.mx, Bill_Cervantes@a.
>escribi�:
>
>More Quotes Proving Racist Hatred
>
>Hate mongers don't have arguments. Instead they bash
>persons.
>
>Hate mongers don't debate ideas. Instead they bash entire
>ethnics.
>
>Hate mongers ruin agendas and issues they associate with.
>
>http://fr.egroups.ca/message/.ro./123
> >a slur promulgated by the Jews pigs
>
>http://fr.egroups.ca/message/thegr../3321
> >Subject: "Da nigga is a jew"
> >Sent by: John Knight
>
>http://fr.egroups.ca/message/chr..id../2707
> >It's way past time to send the blacks to Africa and the
> >Jews to Madagascar.
> > John Knight
>
>The same the historic Nazis pretended.
>
>http://fr.egroups.ca/message/chr..id../2677
> >That would not be possible to prove collusively or
> >non-conclusively while the Jewish criminals and their
> >Masonic stooges are in power.
>[Kirienko]
>
>http://fr.egroups.ca/message/chr..id../2670
> >But you, Pernalenin, haven't been able to progress
> > beyond 'jew' primal/primate screaming.
> >--Martin Lindstedt
> >Listserver Owner & Moderator
>
>For months they distorted names of opponents in an
>insulting and senseless style. When a name of them was
>varied once, (KKKnight), it resulted in angry protest, even
>though it made sense because of the the group mobbing.
>
>http://fr.egroups.ca/message/thegr../3546
> >>ergo, we must all love the hooked-nosed Swine of today.
> >Well said, Sandra,
> > [John Knight]
>
>http://fr.egroups.ca/message/thegr../3546
> >>ergo, we must all love the hooked-nosed Swine of today.
> >Well said, Sandra,
> > [John Knight]
>
>If that's not called hatred and prejudice, both words
>have no meaning and they don't speak English any more, nor
>any other language, but a basher's idiom based on distorted
>meanings, created in the spirit of the 1984 night-mare
>vision.
>
>http://fr.egroups.ca/message/thegr../3341
>http://fr.egroups.ca/message/chr..id../2611
> >Subject: Real JEWS
> > ...
> >This is about like trying to teach a pig to sing--it's
> >difficult enough for the teacher and it irritates the pig.
> >http://fathersmanifesto.com/backtoafrica.htm
> >John Knight
>
>Ardent racism is clearly revealed. However, inmidst of
>gang-mobbers, professionals of hatred, we can predict that
>everybody calling a spade a spade, racism and hatred by
>their proper names, they'll accuse of exactly what they are
>doing solely themselves. It's always the same trick of
>echoing any opponent's true argument falsely, as they've
>has
>*no argument*.
>
>http://fr.egroups.ca/message/thegr../3362
> >In fact, such is your normal nature, Pernalenin, and it
> >is altogether inherently autonomic and genetic. You are of
> >your father, Satan the Devil, as Jesus Christ told
>
>Any reasonable mind - the vast majority of mankind - will
>recognize that type of racism and know where it's coming
>from. At other opportunities it was repeatedly stated, that
>opponents should be excluded from society or sent to
>Madagascar, too.
>
>http://fr.egroups.ca/message/..../115
> >The Grom - 110 Jews and other Western Criminals of the
> > World
>
>Grom? Pro Grom?
>
>http://fr.egroups.ca/message/thegr../3547
> >The jews who laugh in our face and say things like "you
> >won't see Christian prayers in public schools in your
> >lifetime" had better take note at how similar their
> >laughter today is to jews who laughed at Hitler not much
> >longer than a half a century ago.
> >John Knight
>
>Kirienko:
> >Below follows a Jewish concoction - a plan of
> >ex-termination of Europe and Europeans
>
>The hate clan distorts all facts and the meaning of
>words. While Holocaust is denied, they allege Jews would
>commit it.
>
>One day they'll tell the Jews would have gassed the Nazis
>in Auschwitz. Just as Orwell described, the past is
>rewritten and every fact including words distorted.
>
>http://fr.egroups.ca/message/.ro./115
>
> >Hitler continued the Jewish course in Europe ...
>
> >It was not the first time because extermination of the
> >Aryan stock
>
> >That it was the Aryan Holocaust executed by the Nazi Jews
>
>Following the usual tactic of replacing every fact on
>earth by its opposite, now the Nazis were an allegedly
>"Jewish course" killing Aryans, probably helped by the
>American Indian called Colombus and the South American
>Indian Pizarro, who were just settling in Europe,
>inhabiting the country and founding the European Union.
>That's the explanation why many children play cowboy and
>red Indian today. ;-(
>
>Next they call fire cold and ice hot.
>
>http://fr.egroups.ca/message/.ro./83
> >All top Nazi of Germany in reality were those Jews with
> >no exception.
>
>Now the Nazis were Jews, while the Jews were Nazis.
>
>Next sky and ocean will be yellow, the fire green, and
>the lemon red.
>
>http://fr.egroups.ca/message/.ro./115
> >That is why Jews alienate the name of words from
> >their substance making it difficult for their victims to
> >recreate the words with meaning on their own.
>
>More Ka Ka Ka brain washing. The bashers themselves are
>the only one alienating words from their substance and
>meaning, making it impossible for victims and opponents to
>refute any lie, because each word has lost its proper
>meaning.
>
>That way the bashers can recreate the words with twisted
>meanings according to their whims.
>
>Replacing language by a distorted version is only one
>step among others. Next the entire history is dumped and
>replaced by the delirium of fantasies produced by hateful
>obsessions.
>
> >would remind you that today's khazzar jews are a fake
>
>Racist trash. If any jew would be fake, because allegedly
>somebody converted, all Christians in this world would be
>fake, because they've forefathers who once converted from
>another faith. That's a matter of elementary logic.
>
>Yet hate mongers never listen to any logic or fact.
>They've lost touch with reality completely. They've locked
>themselves in a realm of prejudiced fantasies steered by
>lies, distortions and redefinitions of everything,
>including reality and language. They're trapped in a group
>mania alleging every opponent would be part of a secret
>conspiration (probably Jewish or Talmud-driven ;-) ).
>
>
> >because you are Permasick genetic degenerate
>
>Both an ideology of genetics, degeneration and its use
>for demeaning opponents were pioneered by Nazis.
>
> >Your teaching is the sign of cancer of genetic de-
> >generation that like a cancer eats into the society.
> >There is nothing but a bare force that can stop the
> >spread of that decease and purge the society from the
> >infection.
>
>That's teaching the use of "nothing but a bare force".
>Opposition to their dictatorial ideology is bashed as "sign
>of cancer of genetic degeneration".
>
>You can rely on that whatever they state is wrong and the
>opposite true or close to truth.
>
>Whatever they do wrong they falsely accuse their victim of.
>
>Whatever argument an opponent has they'll echo it.
>
>Whoever proves that they're spreading hatred, they
>falsely accuse of hatred.
>
>http://fr.egroups.ca/message/thegr../3341
> >Blacks don't have the intellect to understand
>Christianity.
> >They also don't have the intellect to understand this
> >conversation,
> > (John Knight, blasphemically signing as "Christian
> > Party")
>
>One of the oldest Christian churches is the Ethiopean.
>They may still be true Christians, when racist
>anti-Christian trash has destroyed Christianity in the
>bashers' surrounding.
>
>http://fr.egroups.ca/message/thegr../3341
>http://fr.egroups.ca/message/chri..id../2611
> >Subject: Real JEWS
> > ...
> >This is about like trying to teach a pig to sing--it's
> >difficult enough for the teacher and it irritates the pig.
> > http://fathersmanifesto.com/backtoafrica.htm
> > John Knight
>
>http://fr.egroups.ca/message/thegr../3480
> > Christians, if they will get their head out of their
> > ass, have plenty of reason to hate the Jews,
>
>Blasphemy! Anti-Christian! He's bashing Jesus Christ, his
>ethnic and his teaching.
>
>It's a description of what they do in their own words.
>They confess to teach Christians, that they allegedly "have
>plenty of reasons to hate the Jews."
>
>They confess spreading hatred.
>
>http://www.egroups.com/group/Christ.._Nat../386
> >Remember and learn to hate.
>
>http://www.egroups.com/group/KORESH../449
> >11. Jews would be expelled and will be bound to till the
> > land with their own labors under the penalty of death.
>
>Every line they write is a distortion and lie.
>
> >for they have murdered over 100 million of them in just
> >the last 100 years alone.
>
>HUGE LIE.
>
>Fact is, that "Christians" have - in a very anti-Christian
>way - repeatedly murdered Jews targeting them as a group,
>since the time of the crusades, but *not* the other way
>round.
>
> >The blacks are nothing but parasites,
>
>No more abominable hate stuff!
>
>Protect your reputation and agenda from harm!
>
>Ban hate mongers!
>
>Ostracize hate mongers!
>
>Bill Cervantes
>

 

> Well, cowardly John Knight, I know you. I know your mind, I know your
> heart, and I know your fear. You can sneak around behind my back spitting
> your hate, but there is no place for you to hide. You are always watched,
> you are always seen, and there is no thing you can do that will not be
> known and judged.

You know NOTHING, Rod. From the paragraph above, you don't even KNOW that this page was posted to your own egroups list first, before it became a web page at http://fathersmanifesto.net//rodvanmechelen.htm




Did you write the following, Van Mechelen???
===============================================
Back when I was making enough money to think I could hire some folks
to help do the research required to effectively oppose Knight & co's
nonsense, I contacted the E.D. of the Seattle ADL office.

Thing about the ADL is, they're not entirely clean, either. Go to
their site you will find propaganda. But, I figured if anybody would
have solid data to oppose anti-Semetic propaganda, it would be them.
===============================================




Now imagine the HYPOCRISY of your saying that we "sneak around behind [your] back", while you sneak around behind our backs bragging about sicing a KNOWN terrorist organization on us!!

You're disgusting.


> Many here, of course, already know this. To this, we add his cowardice - he
> posted his reply to my comments on his website where I would not have seen it
> had no one brought it to my attention.


And you're an idiot. This was posted at http://www.egroups.com/message/repeal19th/27858   almost a week ago on YOUR list serve with YOUR name on it. The title is "Rod Van Mechelen--Mud".
http://www.egroups.com/message/repeal19th/27808

http://www.egroups.com/message/backlash/20359


> Ironically, as we have witnessed, he claims the fellowship of big numbers
> of Christians at the same time he reduces those numbers by repudiating the
> faith of any Christian who disagrees with him.


You're no "christian", Van Mechelen. You claim to be a jew, you "think" like a jew, you act like a jew, and now you're starting to get as irritating as a jew.

What are you, a duck?

John Knight




"You shall do no injustice in judgment. You shall not be partial. . . . But in righteousness you shall judge your neighbor", Leviticus 19:15

"You shall not show partiality in judgment; you shall hear the small as well as the great; you shall not be afraid in any man's presence, for the judgment is God's", Deuteronomy 1:17

"...we command you, brethren, on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us", 2 Thessalonians 3:6

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness?" 2 Corinthians 6:14

"You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies", John 8:44

The Jews answered him, "Aren't we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?", John 8:48

http://millennium.fortunecity.com/redwood/547/poll.htm




----- Original Message -----
From: "Rod Van Mechelen" <rodvan@backlash.com>
To: <backlash@egroups.com>
Cc: <knight@moscowmail.com>; <revolutionist@usa.net>; <fmanifesto@hotmail.com>; <fathersmanifesto@yahoo.com>; <manifesto@christianparty.net>; <manifesto@netzero.net>; <>; <artbooks@rocketmail.com>; <tilimon@hotmail.com>; <fmanifesto@netscape.net>; <markhall@rocketmail.com>; <manifesto@san-diego.crosswinds.net>; <manifesto@christianparty.net>; <susankm@hotmail.com>; <fathersmanifesto@freeyellow.com>; <compact@easypost.com>; <fm@hotyellow98.com>; <fathersmanifesto@angelfire.com>; <fmanifesto@geocities.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 12:01 AM
Subject: the cowardly bigot - John Knight

> John Perna brought to my attention that John Knight - whom I introduced to
> the national men's/fathers' rights movement in the original version of The
> Backlash! - has erected a page dedicated just to spitting his hatred at me.
>
> http://fathersmanifesto.net//rodvanmechelen.htm
>
> Sadly, John has sunk from a radical though seemingly rational voice for
> fathers' rights to, in the best tradition of the pop feminists - casting
> aspersions upon all who disagree with him.
>
> Ironically, as we have witnessed, he claims the fellowship of big numbers
> of Christians at the same time he reduces those numbers by repudiating the
> faith of any Christian who disagrees with him.
>
> Indeed, he has become so adept at ad hominem attacks that he does the likes
> of Andrea Dworkin proud.
>
> Many here, of course, already know this. To this, we add his cowardice - he
> posted his reply to my comments on his website where I would not have seen it
> had no one brought it to my attention. Maybe he also posted it to one or
> many of his email lists, but he knows I would not know of that because he
> refused to accept my new email address.
>
> This element of the men's movement is sad but unavoidable: every social
> movement begins with thoughtful people who put themselves at risk to oppose
> some social inequity. But they are invariably followed by fanatics who,
> ironically, embody the bigotry that started the movement in the first place.
>
> For more about this, see Cycles of Bigotry:
> http://www.backlash.com/book/cycle.html
>
> Our goal - and the goal of most people in the men's and fathers' movement -
> is to end this cycle. John Knight, however, has no interest in this. By
> his actions, he is taking advantage of the cycle to position himself as
> preeminent when the pendulum swings to the opposite extreme. Worse, he
> is aligning himself with the Nazis to attract white supremacist elements
> to leverage his rise to power.
>
> His greatest sin, however, is that he promotes his brand of hate in the
> name of love.
>
> Well, cowardly John Knight, I know you. I know your mind, I know your
> heart, and I know your fear. You can sneak around behind my back spitting
> your hate, but there is no place for you to hide. You are always watched,
> you are always seen, and there is no thing you can do that will not be
> known and judged.
>
> rod
>
> **********************************************************************
> Rod Van Mechelen, publisher - The Backlash! http://www.backlash.com
> Flagship forum of the Equalitarian Movement - Discussion Forums at:
> http://www.coolboard.com/myboards.cfm?oid=903438261559355
> Songs for Parents of Missing Children: http://www.transcenderarts.com
> **********************************************************************
>
--- Original Message -----
From: Rod Van Mechelen To: demand@egroups.com Cc: slick-d@egroups.com ; freedom_line@yahoo.com ; Christian Nationalist ; christianidentity@egroups.com ; ChristianPatriot ; demand@egroups.com ; Holy War ; KORESHX98@egroups.com ; Religionornotnow ; repeal19th@egroups.com ; repeal19th@topica.com ; The Grip (E)
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2000 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: [demand] jury says FBI innocent at WACO
But, like Jesus, I'm just one of the "mud race" people, and therefore less fit than a good White Christian to glean the meaning in a statement so complex as "judge not lest ye be judged." rod

horizontal rule

 

 

 

At 09:57 PM 12/25/00 -0800, Christian Party wrote:
>   At 05:49 PM 12/25/00 -0800, Rod Van Mechelen wrote:
>   >This is really funny.  Several times I have written about my
> experience as a
>   >"born again Christian," not once have I ever said I am a Jew, yet Knight
>   >repeatedly says I said I'm a Christian and asks when I was a
> Christian. You're
>   >a funny guy, John.
>
>   Okay, what I MEANT to say :) was: not once have I ever said I am a Jew,
> yet
>   Knight
>   repeatedly says I said I'm a Jew and asks when I was a Christian. You're
>   a funny guy, John.
>
>   John will almost certainly make much of my error.  He's like that.   It's
>   just his
>   way. ;)
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-----
>It's not a question of anyone making fun of your errors.  It's that you
>come across, at least on the internet, as one very confused person.

So many replies come to mind, so little bandwidth. :)

>You vehemently support the jewish position,

To which "jewish position" are you referring?  I support
the positions of some Jews and disagree with others.

What I think you mean by saying I "vehemently support the
jewish position" is that I do NOT agree with your bigotry,
your blanket condemnation of people who are born into a
particular group, I do NOT agree with your racism, I do
NOT agree with your INTERPRETATIONS of the Bible, and I
DO note your lies.

To infer from these that I support some mythical "jewish
position" (and I say "mythical" because there are many
Jews who hold positions different from many other Jews).

>  and then claim you aren't a jew.

You're the only one who has implied I am a Jew, John.
Your persistent prevarications aside, let's test your
logic.

I "vehemently support" the Republican party's DECLARED
position on limited government.  By your logic, this
demonstrates I am a Republican, but I am not.

I also "vehemently support" the Democratic party's
DECLARED position on individual rights.  By your logic,
this demonstrates I am a Democrat, but I am not.

Hence, your logic is flawed.

>   What could anyone possible make of the fact that you are more pro-Talmud

What a liar!  Oh my, I'm choking with laughter, here.  John, you genius, I
have written and published comments critical of the Talmud.  What a towering
intellect it must require to conclude I am pro-Talmud.  Nor am I anti-Talmud.
Like most if not all religious texts, it contains both wisdom and lunacy.

>  and anti-Christian

Again, your logic is faulty.  You take a few particular criticisms I have of
Christianity and through some labyrinthine inductive logic conclude I oppose
everything Christian.  But this should not surprise us for favoring inductive
over deductive reasoning is a characteristic of bigotry.

>  than many of the jews on this forum?  A jew sympathizer is even worse
> than a jew in many ways.

Were I indeed a "jew sympathizer" (and it is no more true than to say I am a
"christian sympathizer" or a "buddhist sympathizer"), then it would be a far
better thing that to be a bigot.

>   Consider your following outlandish statement:
>
> >   First, he ignores census accuracy issues.  The US Census Bureau
> states the 1990
> >   US Census was off by 1-2%
> (http://www.census.gov/prod/99pubs/99statab/sec01.pdf),
> >   what of the accuracy of data in war-torn Europe?  Do we blindly
> accept the accuracy
> >   of statistics which support our view, do we reject the accuracy of
> all statistics
> >   (as some do), or do we take all with a grain of salt?  Being the
> fair-minded kind
> >   of a guy I am, I take all with a grain of salt.
>
>You claim to believe that 6 million jews, or 40% of the world's supply of
>jews, died in the "holocaust".  And here you are attempting to discredit
>World Almanacs and the Encyclopedia Britannica which all show that the
>European population of jews decreased from 10 million in 1928 to 9.4
>million in 1941, and remained flat until 1946, at the same time that the
>worldwide population increased from 15.6 million in 1928 to 15.8 million
>in 1946.  This suggests emigration, not extermination in the
>"holocaust"  http://fathersmanifesto.com/holocaust.htm

First, you're still ignoring the accuracy issues; second, you ignore
another issue I
raised: in time of war and following a devastating war, people reproduce at an
accelerated rate, and although I'm not certain I raised this issue before,
I'll raise
it now: secular Jews who were not counted in pre-WWII census as Jews but
declared
themselves during and afterwards as an act of defiance against
bigotry.  Patriotic
pride can compel people to do all sorts of things.

I have no reason to doubt that approximately "6 million jews, or 40% of the
world's
[KNOWN AT THAT TIME] supply of jews, died in the 'holocaust'."  And I accept as
relatively accurate the 1946 figures.  But to accept your position on the
holocaust
issue takes a much greater leap of faith than does mine. :)

Oh, and in case anybody missed it in the subject line: JOHN'S ENTIRE POST
IS ATTEMPTING
TO SIDE-STEP THE ORIGINAL ISSUE: THAT I DEMONSTRATED HIS STATEMENT ABOUT
THE JEWISH
PRESS IS FALSE. :-)

>If the population of jews in Europe before the "holocaust" decreased 6%,
>but increased worldwide by 1.3% (during the exact same time that the
>entire population of Europe decreased 12% because of WWII), and if there
>is a plus or minus 2% error in census numbers,

Again, the genius shares his brilliance with us.  But wait, let us remind
ourselves
of the origin of that "plus or minus 2% error in census numbers":   "The US
Census
Bureau states the 1990 US Census was off by 1-2%..."

I think we can safely assume the 1990 census of the US was a LOT more
accurate than
pre-WWII Europe.  Would you disagree, John?

>  then following your argument 100%, the population of jews in Europe
> decreased somewhere between 4% and 8%, while the worldwide population at
> most decreased 0.7% or increased by as much as 3.3%.
>
>How can you possibly get 6 million dead jews out of those figures?

As I've said before in a statement to which you replied with great vitriol:
I will
pursue this matter in a few years when I can afford to hire a roomful of
people
with PhDs in history and statistical analysis to do the research.  Until
then, the
only reason I approve your post was not to allow you to spew your views
about the
holocaust on a list that is primarily about gender issues, but because it
demonstrates
the lengths to which you will go to hide your errors and avoid discussing
your lies. :)

>Either way, we have far more evidence that Wiesenthal is a war criminal
>than that somebody half a century ago was.  Why do you support this brand
>of terrorist?

There you go again, John, making unsupportable assertions.  (I think I know
how Reagan
felt during his presidential debates. :)

>We requested that he add us to his excellent list of "hate groups" [read:
>patriot organizations], but instead of doing that, he took the list off of
>his web page completely.

Actually, you're committing a classic error in logic: Post hoc, ergo
propter hoc."
That is, "After this fact, therefore because of it."

Besides, it appears they replaced it:
http://www.wiesenthal.com/feature/digitalhatecd.html

>   Fortunately, we kept a copy of it for posterity at
> http://fathersmanifesto.com/wiesenthal.htm
>
>Do you support scumbags like Wiesenthal?

No idea.  I know less about them than I do about you.

>   If so, calling you a jew is a compliment.

And you may be avoiding the original subject, just as you yet to refute my
noting
you have lied about me several times, but these things are not forgotten.

rod

 

Date: Sun, 07 Jun 1998 21:40:14 -0700

From: Rod Van Mechelen <rodvan@nwlink.com>

Subject: Re: SMHs are Sluts

During the depression, my maternal grandfather was murdered. Back

then, few men in western Washington were interested in a woman with

2 small daughters. Particularly an American Indian woman. Gramma

Dorothy did the best she could raising my mother and aunt on her own

in a Christian culture hostile toward Indian widows.

You play the cards you're dealt. Sometimes, that means being a SMH.

SMH are not, by definition, sluts. Some people make the best of the

cards they're dealt, some don't. Some squander their chances and

waste their lives, some take the little they have and turn it into a

monument to triumph over tragedy, most just drift along with the

tide of social sentiment.

Fifty years ago, social sentiment was, as I note in Cycles of Bigotry

(http://www.backlash.com/book/cycle.html), generally too critical,

demanding and controlling of women. The feminism of the sixties was

the beginning of the real backlash against the extremes of that melieu

(http://www.backlash.com/book/fem01.html), just as the nineties have

seen the beginning of the real backlash against the extremes of

today's pop feminism (http://www.backlash.com/book/blash.html).

We can emmulate the pop feminists' extremism, do collectivists proud

by indulging sweeping generalizations broadly condemning all women in

various circumstances while ignoring the singular details that brought

those individuals to their state, we can become the very bigots we

seek to expose and oppose, or we can turn away from the seductive power

of anger, blame and shame to end the cycle of bigotry and counter

bigotry.

Condemn the conditions that lead to SMH, help those individuals who

strive to better their condition, insist our polity refuse to reward

those who do not, and in the long run the individual cases will

resolve, perpetuate the cycle or drift with the tide. The one thing

none of us get to do is refuse to choose.

rod

**********************************************************************

Rod Van Mechelen, publisher - The Backlash! http://www.backlash.com

Unless noted otherwise, only my comments reflect my opinion.

**********************************************************************