Talmud--Jesus is Balaam
Judaism - Talmud - Part 11
Christ as Balaam
Under the name of "Balaam" the most lewd passages concerning Jesus appear. Proof that Jesus is called "Balaam" is found in the Jewish Encyclopedia ("Balaam") which, after enumerating loathsome qualities, states: "Hence...the pseudonym Balaam' given to Jesus in Sanhedrin 106b and Gittin 57a."
In the same article, we are told that the Talmud likens the Gospel Christians and Christ to Baal sex-worshipers because of whose abominations 24,000 Israelites died of plague at the time of Balaam. (Numbers 25:1-9) Because Balaam had been asked to curse the Israelites but instead did not and foretold the coming Messiah (Numbers 24:17), the flimsy excuse is made that Jesus was a curse like Balaam. "He is pictured as blind of one eye and lame in one foot and his disciples distinguished by three morally corrupt qualitites..." He is called "one that ruined a people," and His churches are likened to nudist Baal worship
And, "this hostility against his memory finds its climax in the dictum that whenever one discovers a feature of wickedness or disgrace in his life, one should preach about it." (Sanhedrin 106b) Hanging the calumny on the brief mention in the Bible that Balaam was slain (Numbers 31:8), this passage in Sanhedrin is cited by the Jewish Encyclopedia: "In the process of killing Balaam (Numbers 31:8), all four legal methods of execution: stoning, burning, decapitating, and strangling, were employed." (Sanhedrin 1c) "He met his death at the age of thirty-three and it is stated that he had no portion in the world to come." (Sanhedrin x, 2, 90a)
Sanhedrin 90a denying "Balaam" a place in the world to come there it is stated that the resurrection being denied by Sadducees and Samaritans "It was to oppose these that the doctrine was emphatically asserted in the second of the Eighteen Benedictions." The "sin" of pronouncing the Tetragrammaton is cited against Christ and Christians.
Turning to Sanhedrin 106a-106b we see the likening of Jesus to the supposed act of Balaam in causing 24,000 Israelites to go whoring and die of plague (some 1450 years before Christ was born). He is due for his "reward" for this infamy. His mother, Mary, is "She who...played the harlot with carpenters...They subjected him to four deaths, stoning, burning, decapitation and strangulation...he was thirty-four years old." Another says: "I...have seen Balaam's Chronicle in which it stated, Balaam the lame was thirty years old when Phineas the Robber killed him."
The footnote explains: "Balaam is frequently used in the Talmud as a type for Jesus." And the mother of Jesus is identified, the four deaths enumerated, and "...all the Balaam passages are anti-Christian in tendency. Balaam being used as an alias for Jesus, Phineas the Robber is thus taken to represent Pontius Pilate, and the Chronicle of Balaam probably to denote a Gospel."
Verifying the Jewish Encyclopedia account above on Balaam being Jesus in the Talmud we see "in the case of the wicked Balaam: whatever your find written about him, lecture upon it to his disadvantage." Christian churches are likened to tents for Baal prostitution, with old women outside, young ones inside to get customers drunk and disrobe and worship the "IDOL," Jesus, in Baal manner, by prostitution.
Covering then Revealed
The curse of Christians, as those who pronounce the "Name" as "spelt" (Tetragammaton) and read "uncanonical books," begins with the Mishna. Vague meanderings to throw off a possible Christian reader appear in the footnotes with the mere hint that the "uncanonical books" may mean this or that but: "There are indications, however, that something more is meant."
But the footnote to "uncanonical books," still being hashed 68 pages later (Jewish Encyclopedia, p. 680) frankly states it refers to the New Testament, and the word "Sadducees" is used to indicate "Gentiles."
Christ, as stated in the Talmud and Jewish Encyclopedia account of same, gets the "four legal methods of execution" and is also Crucified, as a blasphemer of this lovely Babylonian Pharisee religion.
Jesus Stoned: Then "hanged" or crucified, Sanhedrin 43a-43b; 67a where under another phony name (Ben Stada) Jesus is identified as "Jesus of Nazareth." (Jewish Encyclopedia)
Jesus' Apostles: All killed, Sanhedrin 43a and their names decoded by the Jewish Encyclopedia.
Jesus Crucified: As a "blasphemer." (Sanhedrin 46a; Jewish Encyclopedia)
Jesus Burned: Sanhedrin 52a: Manner of burning; Yebamoth 6b: Verified by Jewish Encyclopedia under "Balaam." He is "lowered into dung up to his armpits then a hard cloth was placed within a soft one, wound round his neck and the two loose ends pulled in opposite directions forcing him to open his mouth. A Wick was then lit, and thrown into his mouth so that it descended into his body and burnt his bowels...his mouth was forced open with pinchers against his wish..." And: "The death penalty of burning' was executed by pouring molten lead through the condemned man's mouth into his body, burning his internal organs."
Jesus Strangled: "He was lowered into dung up to his armpit, then a hard cloth was placed within a soft one, wound round his neck, and the two ends pulled in opposite directions until he was dead." (Sanhedrin 52a; Repeated Sanhedrin 106b, verified by Jewish Encyclopedia)
Jesus in Hell: Where His punishment is "boiling hot semen," Gittin 57a identified as Jesus in footnote to same, and in Jewish Encyclopedia under "Balaam."
Christians in Hell: In the above passage punished by "boiling hot excrement" which is the punishment for all who mock "at the words of the sages." (Talmud)
Jesus: "Committed bestiality," "corrupted the people," is "turned into hell." (Sanhedrin 105a)
Jesus "Limped on one foot" and "was blind in one eye," "he practiced enchantment by means of his membrum," "he committed bestiality with his ass," he was a fool who "did not even know his beast's mind. (Sanhedrin 105a-105b) The silly and foul misuse of Judges 5:27 about Sisera's dying convulsions meaning sexual intercourse is here applied to Jesus, with the footnote explanation of Judges 5:27: "This is taken to mean sexual intercourse..."
Jesus: Attempts to seduce woman, is excommunicated by a Rabbi and then worships a brick, was a seducer of Israel, and practiced magic. (Sanhedrin 107b, Jewish encyclopedia)
Jesus: In the index of Sanhedrin, "chief repository of the criminal aw of the Talmud," showing page numbers where He is denounced.
Jesus' Resurrection cursed: "Woe unto him who maketh himself alive by the name of God." (Sanhedrin 106a)
Judaism - Talmud - Part 12
Trial of Jesus: "It was by the action of the priests that Jesus was sent before Pontius Pilate" The Sanhedrin priests "had most reason to be offended with Jesus' action in cleansing the Temple;" the probable place of His trial, according to the Talmud. His cry:"My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?...was in all its implications itself a disproof of his punishment would disprove these claims in Jewish eyes. No Messiah that Jews could recognize could suffer such a death for He that is hanged is accursed of God.'" (Deuteronomy 2123) This refers to an EVIL son and Talmudist Rashi adds,"an insult to God." (Jewish Encyclopedia, "Jesus")
Jesus Knew the Talmud
Rodkinson (M. Levi Frumkin), who made the first English translation of the Babylonian Talmud, in the section on the History of the Talmud, asks: (Jesus and The Traditions of the Pharisees) "Is the literature that Jesus was familiar with in his early years yet in existence in the world? Is it possible for us to get at it?...To such inquiries the learned class of Jewish Rabbis answer by holding up the Talmud...the Talmud then, is the written form of that which, in the time of Jesus, was called the Traditions of the Elders, and to which he makes frequent allusions."
Christians Rank - Rabbi Eliezer's Filth
The tale told is that because of talking to a Christian Disciple of Jesus, a Rabbis suspected of being pro-Christian which makes him deeply ashamed. He tells the lie that Jesus taught that the hire of a harlot may be used to build a privy for the high priest. (Abodah Zarah 16b-17a)
This filthy story to defame Christ is used in a typical Pharisee lie by Rabbi Louis Finklestein in his "The Pharisees." Any epithets directed at Pharisaism by Christians in the early centuries he ascribes to conflict between Christians and "their former comrades, who continued loyal to unaltered Pharisaism. Nevertheless, the Pharisee and the Christian remained sufficiently close to regard one another with respect." Then the above Rabbi Eliezer lie is used as a compliment: "Rabbi Eliezer ben Hyrcanus, one of the most orthodox of the sages, offered high praise to an interpretation of Scripture given by an early Christian" (Abodah Zara 17a) the above libel on Christ. (Foreword to First Edition of The Pharisees, pp. 15-16)
Christianity Calls From Hell
Christianity is likened to two daughters of a horse-leech calling from hell "Bring, bring." One is the government "Which constantly imposes fresh taxes and duties" and the other "Minuth" (Christianity) "Which continually lures the unwary to its erroneous teaching" and a Biblical verse is misused as a curse "applied to those converted to idolatry." (Christianity) Then another says the voice of hell is calling to bring these two "daughters," "who cry and call in this world," back to hell.
Incest Preferable to Christianity
The woman who confessed that her younger son was the offspring of her older son and that incest was her lightest sin, wanted to die in peace but could not, for if incest was her lightest sin "it may be assumed that she had also adopted minuth (Christianity) ...that is why she did not die...Since she said of her guilt that it is one of the lightest, it may be assumed that she was guilty of idolatry (Christianity) also," says this gem of the sages. (Sanhedrin 77b-78a)
Rabbi ben Dordia the "Pure"
The tale follows about a Rabbi who visited every harlot in the world, with lurid details, crossing seven rivers, etc., to get at the last one. He is allowed to die in peace because he had not committed the unforgivable minuth (Christianity). (Abodah Zarah 17a)
Death From Snakebite
Rabbi Ishmael (sage) has a nephew who is bitten by a snake and wants to le Jacob, a Disciple of Jesus, heal him but dies in the middle of the sentence. The Rabbi thereupon exclaims "Happy art thou Ben Dama for thou wert pure in body and thy soul likewise left thee in purity..." His joy was over the idea that it was preferable to die of snakebite than to be healed by a detested Christian. (Abodah Zarah 27b)
More Lies To Fool Us
At the time the Jewish Encyclopedia was published in 1905 there was no English translation of the Talmud, with identifying folio numbers. The first, Rodkinson, job was not only abridged but is without folio numbers, so the following lies were safe from prying non-Jewish eyes. Anyone familiar with the liquid fire turned on Pharisaism by Christ in the New Testament is not fooled by this: "During the first century of Christianity the Rabbis lived on friendly terms with the minim," (Christians) then the privy tale attributed to Jesus is told as though it indicated friendliness (Abodah-Zarah 16b-17a), and then the above snake story follows "Ben Dama, a nephew of Rabbi Ishmael, having been bitten by a snake, allowed himself to be cured by means of an exorcism uttered by he min Jacob, a Judaeo-Christian." (See he Jewish Encyclopedia article on "MIN,") Chris was amazingly correct in describing the Pharisees as children of the Father of Lies. (John 8:44) This is exemplified by the head of the Jewish theological Seminary, one of world Jewry's 120 top leaders, Rabbi Finklestein, and the Jewish Encyclopedia, compiled by Jewish leaders, both deliberately lying in pain about the snake and privy stories in the Talmud pretending they are favorable to Christians instead of bearing ani-Christian hostilities.
In addition to the FIVE deaths given to Christ in the Talmud, in addition to all the rest of the calumnies heaped upon Christ, as reviewed by the Jewish Encyclopedia article "JESUS," being full-page reproductions of the same with a continuation of about a half-page on he next sheet, we also learn at the end of that: "when Judas found he could not touch Jesus in any way in aerial battle, he defiled him." (The old privy concept of every thing beautifully)
Judas and Christ: Mohammedanism
Continuing "This feature naturally especially angered Christians... according o a passage in he Zohar (chief set of Cabalistic books) the same degrading fate is meted out to both Jesus and Mohammed." The Talmudic influence on Mohammedanism is then refined. Pursuit of this opens up amazing pictures of the infiltration of Talmudists into Mohammedanism as in Mormonism, all of this being concealed from the innocent followers. In fact, the whole theory that God's Chosen People return to Palestine before the reign of the Messiah is unsupported by a line in the New Testament which foretells only that the ani-Christ forces will be centered in and defeated in Palestine before His Coming. They are there NOW. And the sex-god Zeus of Daniel 8 (fulfilled in 168 B.C.) Stands in the United Nations headquarters in New Your, the sole "religious" object of the whole anti-God institution, he UN.
Rabbi Louis Finklestein: One time head of he Jewish Theological Seminary of New York, Los Angeles, etc., one of the 120 leading Jews of the world chosen by the kehillas (organized Jewish communities) of the world in 1937 from among Jews who were still alive in 1958 and most outstandingly hold up the lamp of Judaism to he world. Livinov (Finklestein), the Communist commissar, bank robber terrorist; atheist communist Albert Einstein those indefatigable Marxist trends, Harold Laski and his friend Felix Frankfurter (U.S. Supreme Court Judge), shared honors with the above Rabbi Finklestein and others of his ilk.
A Jewish and Catholic Debate
Over the Interpretation of the Old Testament
Jewish interlocutor, and
Robert A. Sungenis, Ph.D.
Jewish interlocutor : Messiah : The Criteria. Judge for yourself: Did Jesus fulfill ALL these criteria? The Jewish tradition of "The Messiah" has its foundation in numerous biblical references, and understands "The Messiah" to be a human being - without any overtone of deity or divinity - who will bring about certain changes in the world and fulfill certain criteria before he can be acknowledged as "The Messiah".
First of all, he must be Jewish - "...you may appoint a king over you, whom the L-rd your G-d shall choose: one from among your brethren shall you set as king over you." (Deuteronomy 17:15).
He must be a member of the tribe of Judah - "The staff shall not depart from Judah, nor the sceptre from between his feet..." (Genesis 49:10). To be a member of the tribe of Judah, the person must have a biological father who is a member of the tribe of Judah.
He must be a direct male descendant of King David and King Solomon, his son - "And when your days (David) are fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who shall issue from your bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name, and I will make firm the throne of his kingdom forever..." (2 Samuel 7:12 - 13).
The genealogy of the New Testament is inconsistent. While it gives two accounts of the genealogy of Joseph, it states clearly that he is not the biological father of Jesus. One of the genealogies is through Nathan and not Solomon altogether!
R. Sungenis : Before we begin to answer this Jewish interlocutor, please keep in mind that the New Testament explains to us why the typical Jew cannot understand the Old Testament. As St. Paul says in 2 Cor 3:13-16:
13 not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not see the end of the fading splendor.
14 But their minds were hardened; for to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away.
15 Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their minds;
16 but when a man turns to the Lord the veil is removed.
The Jewish interlocutor is wrong about the genealogies of the New Testament. There are two genealogies, one of Joseph (Matthew 1:1-25) and one of Mary (Luke 3:21-38), which is why Matthews genealogy goes through Solomon and Lukes genealogy goes through Nathan.
Jewish interlocutor : He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel -"And he shall set up a banner for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth." (Isaiah 11:12)
Are all Jews living in Israel? Have all Jews EVER lived in Israel since the time of Jesus?
R. Sungenis: First, many of the passages that speak of a return of the Jews were indeed fulfilled in the Old Testament in the return from captivity from Babylon in 515 B.C. This return is recorded in the books of Ezra, Nehemiah, and others. Second, passages in the Old Testament may be fulfilled in the Old Testament and/or have a fulfillment in the New Testament. As for Isaiah 11, according to St. Paul (a Jew) he says in Romans 15:9-12 that it was fulfilled by the Church of the New Testament as it brought the Gospel to the Gentiles, and is not to be fulfilled some time in the future by the Jews themselves. St. Paul says:
9 and in order that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy. As it is written, "Therefore I will praise thee among the Gentiles, and sing to thy name";
10 and again it is said, "Rejoice, O Gentiles, with his people";
11 and again, "Praise the Lord, all Gentiles, and let all the peoples praise him";
12 and further Isaiah says, "The root of Jesse shall come, he who rises to rule the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles hope."
Jewish interlocutor : He must rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem - "...and I will set my sanctuary in their midst forever and my tabernacle shall be with them.." (Ezekiel 37:26 - 27). At last check, there is NO Temple in Jerusalem. And worse, it was shortly after Jesus died that the Temple was DESTROYED! Just the opposite of this prophecy!
R. Sungenis: Identical to many such passages in the Old Testament about the raising of the temple, the New Testament says that they are fulfilled by Jesus Christ and the New Testament Church, not by the Jews of the future who do not believe in Christ. Ezekiel 37:26-27 is one such passage, as are Isaiah 52:11; Jer. 32:38; 31:31-34; Ezek 20:34. The prophecy of Ezekiel 37:26-27 is prophesying the New Covenant in Christ. Its prophecy is fulfilled in 2 Cor 6:16-18:
16 For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, "I will live in them and move among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Therefore come out from them, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch nothing unclean; then I will welcome you,
18 and I will be a father to you, and you shall be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty."
The rebuilding of the temple is also interpreted as the building of the Church with the influx of Gentiles. St. James (a Jew) says in Acts 15:13-18:
13 After they finished speaking, James replied, "Brethren, listen to me.
14 Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, as it is written,
16 `After this I will return, and I will rebuild the dwelling of David, which has fallen; I will rebuild its ruins, and I will set it up,
17 that the rest of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by my name,
18 says the Lord, who has made these things known from of old.'
The final phase of the new temple is fulfilled in Apocalypse 21:22: And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb.
Jewish interlocutor : He will rule at a time of world-wide peace - "...they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore." (Micah 4:3). Have you seen a newspaper lately? Are we living in a state of complete world peace? Has there ever been peace since the time of Jesus?
R. Sungenis : Speaking of the prophet Micah, he prophesies in the very next chapter, Micah 5:2, that out of Bethlehem the ruler of Israel shall come forth. This passage is fulfilled in Matthew 2:4-7 in reference to Christ, which says:
4 and assembling all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born.
5 They told him, "In Bethlehem of Judea; for so it is written by the prophet:
6 And you, O Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah; for from you shall come a ruler who will govern my people Israel.'"
7 Then Herod summoned the wise men secretly and ascertained from them what time the star appeared;
So obviously, the time of peace prophesied in Micah 4 must be a product of the ruler from Bethleham prophesied by Micah 5. Hence, the turning of spears into pruning hooks has its fulfillment in Jesus Christ, the first stage being the establishment of the Church in the New Testament, the second and final stage being the establishment of the New Heaven and New Earth wherein righteousness dwells (2Peter 3:10-13) and which Abraham and the patriarchs anticipated, since they did not received the promises previously (Hebrews 11:39-40).
Jewish interlocutor : He will rule at a time when the Jewish people will observe G-d's commandments - "My servant David shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall follow My ordinances and be careful to observe My statutes." (Ezekiel 37:24). The Torah is the Jewish guide to life, and its commandments are the ones referred to here. Do all Jews observe all the commandments? Christianity, in fact, often discourages observance of the commandments in Torah, in complete opposition to this prophecy.
R. Sungenis : First, the prophecy of Ezek 37:24 does not mention the Torah. It refers to ALL of the ordinances of God. In fact, some of those ordinances include the very passages discussed above which point to Christ as the Messiah of Old Testament prophecies. The Jews are quite wrong in denying that those passages do not refer to Christ.
Second, Christianity does not discourage observance of the Torah. Romans 13:8-10; Gal 5:14; James 2:8-10 and many other such passages use the commandments from the Torah as guidelines to faith and morals. But Christianity, unlike Judaism, also recognizes the main purpose and limitations of the Torah. It recognizes that the Torah no longer has legal force, since the Old Covenant has been set aside (Hebrews 7:18; 8:13; 9:10; 2 Cor 3:6-14; Gal 5:1-4) and replaced by the New Covenant (Hebrews 10:16-18); and the Torah is, and was, used by God to condemn us in sin so that we turn to his grace in Christ (Romans 3:20; 4:15; 5:20; 7:8-10; Gal 3:10-11); and Christianity also recognizes that the Torahs ceremonial practices have been fulfilled in Christ (Col 2:16; Hebrews 7:1-25).
Jewish interlocutor : He will rule at a time when all people will come to acknowledge and serve one G-d - "And it shall come to pass that from one new moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before Me, says the L-rd" (Isaiah 66:23) there are still millions if not billions of people in the world today who adhere to paganistic and polytheistic religions. It is clear that we have not yet seen this period of human history unfold.
R. Sungenis : Regarding Isaiah 66, this passage was quoted by Stephen in Acts 7:49-51, the first Christian martyr killed by the Jews. Stephen indicates that the Jewish interpretations of Isaiah 66 are incorrect, since God does not live in houses made by human hands:
47 But it was Solomon who built a house for him.
48 Yet the Most High does not dwell in houses made with hands; as the prophet says,
49 `Heaven is my throne, and earth my footstool. What house will you build for me, says the Lord, or what is the place of my rest?
50 Did not my hand make all these things?'
51 "You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you.
52 Which of the prophets did not your fathers persecute? And they killed those who announced beforehand the coming of the Righteous One, whom you have now betrayed and murdered,
Likewise, the complaints of Jews that Isaiah 66:23 has not yet been fulfilled is explained by the context of Isaiah 66, beginning with the verse prior, Isaiah 66:22, which tells us that it will be fulfilled, in Christ, at the end of time, in the New Heaven and New Earth:
22 "For as the new heavens and the new earth which I will make shall remain before me, says the LORD; so shall your descendants and your name remain.
23 From new moon to new moon, and from sabbath to sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before me, says the LORD.
2 Peter 3:10-13 says that the new heavens and new earth comes at the end of time when Christ returns:
12 waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be kindled and dissolved, and the elements will melt with fire!
13 But according to his promise we wait for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
This is the same promise that Abraham will receive. Hebrews 11:16 says:
16 But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city. 17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested,
And also Hebrews 11:39-40:
39 And all these, though well attested by their faith, did not receive what was promised,
40 since God had foreseen something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.
1 Cor. 15:24-28 also says that all of this will be completed when Christ comes the Second time:
24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power.
25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
27 "For God has put all things in subjection under his feet." But when it says, "All things are put in subjection under him," it is plain that he is excepted who put all things under him.
28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things under him, that God may be everything to every one.
Jewish interlocutor : All of these criteria are best stated in the book of Ezekiel Chapter 37 verses 24-28: And David my servant shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. they shall also follow My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Yaakov my servant, in which your fathers have dwelt and they shall dwell there, they and their children, and their children's children forever; and my servant David shall be their prince forever. Moreover, I will make a covenant of peace with them, it shall be an everlasting covenant with them, which I will give them; and I will multiply them and I will set my sanctuary in the midst of them forevermore. And my tabernacle shall be with them: and I will be their G-d and they will be my people. Then the nations shall know that I am the L-rd who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary will be in the midst of them forevermore. If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then he cannot be "The Messiah." A careful analysis of these criteria shows us that to date, no one has fulfilled every condition. Certainly NOT Jesus.
R. Sungenis: As noted above, these passages were partially fulfilled in the First Coming of Christ, and will be fully fulfilled in the Second Coming of Christ. Unfortunately, Jewish interpreters of Scripture have a tendency to truncate Gods plan of fulfillment and demand that he fulfill it according to their own designs, which is the very reason why they missed their Messiah the first time he came. St. Paul is clear in 1 Cor 15:24-28 that God has a two-stage plan of fulfillment of the Old Testament prophecies.
Jewish interlocutor : ISAIAH 53: In the original Hebrew texts, there are no chapter divisions, and Jew and Christian alike agree that chapter 53 is actually a continuation of the prophecy which begins at 52:13. Accordingly, our analysis must begin at that verse.
52:13 "Behold, My servant will prosper." Israel in the singular is called God's servant throughout Isaiah, both explicitly (Isa. 41:8-9; 44:1-2; 45:4; 48:20; 49:3) and implicitly (Isa. 42:19-20; 43:10) - the Messiah is not.
R. Sungenis : The word Messiah is used preponderantly in the Old Testament to refer to an anointed one or an anointing. The only place where it refers to a coming Messiah of the future is Dan 9:25-26, and there is does refer to one anointed person of God, namely Christ.
Jewish interlocutor : Other references to Israel as God's servant include Jer. 30:10 (note that in Jer. 30:17, the servant Israel is regarded by the nations as an outcast, forsaken by God, as in Isa. 53:4); Jer. 46:27-28; Ps. 136:22; Lk. 1:54. ALSO: Given the Christian view that Jesus is God, is God His own servant?
R. Sungenis : The Christian God, the Trinity, was already in view in the Hebrew plural ELOHIM. As God revealed himself to Israel by different names (Elohim, Yahweh, El Shaddai, etc), each portraying a different aspect of his nature, so in the New Covenant that nature is revealed as the same mysterious plurality-singularity, only now the plurality is shown to be actual persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
The word servant is ambiguous in the Hebrew, and it is a deliberate ambiguity, since at times it can refer to Israel and at times it can refer to Christ, depending on the context. The same is true in Hosea 11:1. In the historical context, Israel refers to the nation of Israel coming out of Egypt in 1407 BC. In the prophetic context, Matt 2:15 assures us that Israel refers to Christ:
14 And he rose and took the child and his mother by night, and departed to Egypt,
15 and remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfil what the Lord had spoken by the prophet, "Out of Egypt have I called my son."
Jewish interlocutor : 52:15 - 53:1 "So shall he (the servant) startle many nations, the kings will stand speechless; For that which had not been told them they shall see and that which they had not heard shall they ponder. Who would believe what we have heard?" Quite clearly, the nations and their kings will be amazed at what happens to the "servant of the L-rd," and they will say "who would believe what we have heard?". 52:15 tells us explicitly that it is the nations of the world, the gentiles, who are doing the talking in Isaiah 53.
See, also, Micah 7:12-17, which speaks of the nations' astonishment when the Jewish people again blossom in the Messianic age.
R. Sungenis : Yes, if we didnt have the New Testaments interpretation of Isaiah 52-53, we would indeed have to wait for some other Messianic age to fulfill the Old Testament prophecies. But the fact is, the New Testament fulfills all the Old Testament prophecies, either at the First or Second Coming of Christ. To disprove this, the Jewish interlocutor would have to prove that Jesus was a fraud. But that was already shown to be impossible when Jesus told the Pharisees in Matthew 22:41-46:
41 Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question,
42 saying, "What do you think of the Christ? Whose son is he?" They said to him, "The son of David."
43 He said to them, "How is it then that David, inspired by the Spirit, calls him Lord, saying,
44 `The Lord said to my Lord, Sit at my right hand, till I put thy enemies under thy feet'?
45 If David thus calls him Lord, how is he his son?"
46 And no one was able to answer him a word, nor from that day did any one dare to ask him any more questions.
As it stands, Isaiah 52:15 is fulfilled in Romans 15:19-21:
19 by the power of signs and wonders, by the power of the Holy Spirit, so that from Jerusalem and as far round as Illyricum I have fully preached the gospel of Christ,
20 thus making it my ambition to preach the gospel, not where Christ has already been named, lest I build on another man's foundation,
21 but as it is written, "They shall see who have never been told of him, and they shall understand who have never heard of him."
Jewish interlocutor : 53:1 "And to whom has the arm of the L-rd been revealed?" In Isaiah, and throughout our Scriptures, God's "arm" refers to the physical redemption of the Jewish people from the oppression of other nations (see, e.g., Isa. 52:8-12; Isa. 63:12; Deut. 4:34; Deut. 7:19; Ps. 44:3).
R. Sungenis : No one is arguing that point. But what your argument does not prove is that Isaiah 53:1 cannot be applied to Christ. Double fulfillment of prophecies, one historical and one prophetic, is all over the Old Testament. The Jewish mistake is not seeing the complexity of the prophecies. The same is true when Scripture speaks of Abrahams descendants. Jewish interpretation tries to confine this to Abrahams physical descendants, but Scripture shows that there are two meanings: one refers to physical descendants, and the other refers to spiritual descendants, that is, those who accepted God by faith not works of law (Habakkuk 2:4; Rom 2:28-29; 3:28; 9:32; Gal 3:16, 29; ).
Jewish interlocutor : 53:3 "Despised and rejected of men." While this is clearly applicable to Israel (see Isa. 60:15; Ps. 44:13-14), it cannot be reconciled with the New Testament account of Jesus, a man who was supposedly "praised by all" (Lk. 4:14-15) and followed by multitudes (Matt. 4:25), who would later acclaim him as a prophet upon his triumphal entry into Jerusalem (Matt. 21:9-11). Even as he was taken to be crucified, a multitude bemoaned his fate (Lk. 23:27). Jesus had to be taken by stealth, as the rulers feared "a riot of the people" (Mk. 14:1-2).
R. Sungenis : In the historical context, Isaiah 53:3 does not use the Hebrew KOL (i.e., despised and rejected by all men), so the argument cannot be proven. Moreover, the nation of Israel was not rejected by all men. Proselytes came to Israel from foreign nations, and Israel made alliances with foreign nations. In the height of Israels glory (Solomon), the nations admired and blessed Israel.
Conversely, in the spiritual sense, Christ was rejected by all men, since Romans 5:6-8 tells us:
6 While we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 Why, one will hardly die for a righteous man -- though perhaps for a good man one will dare even to die.
8 But God shows his love for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.
Jewish interlocutor: 53:3 "A man of pains and acquainted with disease." Israel's adversities are frequently likened to sickness - see, e.g., Isa. 1:5-6; Jer. 10:19; Jer 30:12.
R. Sungenis: And most of that according to the above and other passages , sorry to say, was because of Israels sin and apostasy from God. Conversely, Christ was acquainted with our diseases and he cured as many as he could.
Jewish interlocutor : 53:4 "Surely our diseases he carried and our pains he bore." In Matt. 8:17, this is correctly translated, and said to be literally (not spiritually) fulfilled in Jesus' healing of the sick, a reading inconsistent with the Christian mistranslation of 53:4 itself.
53:4 "Yet we ourselves esteemed him stricken, smitten of G- D and afflicted." See Jer. 30:17 - of God's servant Israel (30:10), it is said by the nations, "It is Zion; no one cares for her."
R. Sungenis : And again, application to national Israel, even if true for Isaiah 53, doesnt preclude an application to Christ. Secondly, Isaiah 54:4 is in two parts. Matthew only quotes one part, the part that applies to Jesus curing the sick. He does not quote the other part because that applies to Jesus dying on the cross when the Jews cursed him and told him to come down off the cross.
Jewish interlocutor : 53:5 "But he was wounded from (NOTE: not for) our transgressions, he was crushed from (AGAIN: not for) our iniquities." Whereas the nations had thought the Servant (Israel) was undergoing Divine retribution for its sins (53:4), they now realize that the Servant's sufferings stemmed from their actions and sinfulness. This theme is further developed throughout our Jewish Scriptures - see, e.g., Jer. 50:7; Jer. 10:25. ALSO: Note that the Messiah "shall not fail nor be crushed till he has set the right in the earth" (Isa. 42:4).
R. Sungenis : No, wounded from is a possible translation, not the only one. Any Hebrew grammar will verify that. The word in question is PESHA which means "transgression" in its three consonant Hebrew root. Attached to it is a Hebrew prefix, MEM, which is an assimilation of the Hebrew preposition MIN, which is a combination of the letter MEM with the letter NUN. When MIN is attached to a laryngal verb, the NUN is dropped and the MEM remains. In any case, the Hebrew preposition MIN could mean "from," but it can also mean other things. It is frequently attached to other words to form compound prepositions, especially with words such as PESHA. In such cases, the better translation is "because of," and it is no surprise to see "because of" as the English translation of MIN prefixed to PE verbs. In fact, this occurs over 50 times in the Hebrew Old Testament ( e.g., Gen 7:7; 27:46; Ex 12:1; Isaiah 19:16 , 17, 20). In English, "because of" is equivalent to "for," and thus the translation "He was wounded FOR our transgressions," or "He was wounded BECAUSE OF our transgressions," is perfectly valid. In fact, translating the MIN/PE combination as "FROM" would be inappropriate, since it would be awkward both contextually and grammatically, since the Hebrew sentence demands an answer as to why the Servant was pieced and crushed. "From" does not answer the question.
Jewish interlocutor : 53:7 "He was oppressed and he was afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth. Like a lamb that is led to slaughter, and like a sheep that is silent before its shearers, so he did not open his mouth." Note that in the prior chapter (Isa. 52), Israel is said to have been oppressed and taken away without cause (52:4-5). A similar theme is developed in Psalm 44, wherein King David speaks of Israel's faithfulness even in the face of gentile oppression (44:17-18) and describes Israel as "sheep to be slaughtered" in the midst of the unfaithful gentile nations (44:22,11).
R. Sungenis : And again, a historical fulfillment of an Old Testament passage does not preclude a New Testament fulfillment. Since the New Testament says that now the Church is the Israel of God (Gal 6:16), it is not surprising to see the same passages that were once applied to the nation of Israel are now applied to the spiritual Israel, the Church. Hence, Psalm 44:22 is fulfilled in Romans 8:36 and applied to Christians. All of this comes from St. Paul, the master Jewish scholar who knows his Bible and theology better than any Jew of his day.
Jewish interlocutor : Regarding the claim that Jesus "did not open his mouth" when faced with oppression and affliction, see Matt. 27:46, Jn. 18:23, 36-37.
R. Sungenis : did not open his mouth is a Hebraism for not protesting the charges laid against one. Matt 26:63 and 27:12-14 are clear that Jesus made no such protests:
62 And the high priest stood up and said, "Have you no answer to make? What is it that these men testify against you?"
63 But Jesus was silent. And the high priest said to him, "I adjure you by the living God, tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God."
12 But when he was accused by the chief priests and elders, he made no answer.
13 Then Pilate said to him, "Do you not hear how many things they testify against you?"
14 But he gave him no answer, not even to a single charge; so that the governor wondered greatly.
Jewish interlocutor : 53:8 "From dominion and judgement he was taken away." Note the correct translation of the Hebrew. The Christians are forced to mistranslate, since - by Jesus' own testimony - he never had any rights to rulership or judgement, at least not on the "first coming." See, e.g., Jn. 3:17; Jn. 8:15; Jn. 12:47; Jn. 18:36.
R. Sungenis : Dominion is not the proper translation of OTSER, unless it is used in the intransitive sense, not the transitive. OTSER is only used three times in the Old Testament, Psalm 107:39, Proverbs 30:16 and Isaiah 53:8.
Psalm 107:39 says: When they are diminished and brought low through oppression, trouble, and sorrow. Here OTSER refers to oppression and is coincident with trouble and sorrow. If OTSER were to be translated as dominion here, it would have to be in the intransitive sense, that is, that foreigners had dominion over the people and were oppressing them.
Proverbs 30:16: Sheol, the barren womb, the earth ever thirsty for water, and the fire which never says, Enough.
Here OTSER is translated barren, since a womb that doesnt produce fruit is oppressed and does not have dominion.
Jewish interlocutor : 53:8 "He was cut off out of the land of the living." 53:9 "His grave was assigned with wicked men." See Ez. 37:11-14, wherein Israelis described as "cut off" and God promises to open its "graves" and bring Israel back into its own land. Other examples of figurative deaths include Ex. 10:17; 2 Sam. 9:8; 2 Sam. 16:9.
R. Sungenis : And they do not preclude that the passage can be applied to Christ.
Jewish interlocutor : 53:8 "From my peoples' sins, there was injury to them." Here the Prophet makes absolutely clear, to anyone familiar with Biblical Hebrew, that the oppressed Servant is a collective Servant, not a single individual. The Hebrew word "lamoh", when used in our Scriptures, always means "to them" never "to him" and may be found, for example, in Psalm 99:7 - "They kept his testimonies, and the statute that He gave to them."
R. Sungenis : LAMOH is used 58 times in the Old Testament. It can refer to to him or to them. For example, in Gen 9:26 it means to him while in Gen 9:27 it means to them.
Jewish interlocutor : 53:9 "And with the rich in his deaths." Perhaps King James should have changed the original Hebrew, which again makes clear that we are dealing with a collective Servant, i.e., Israel, which will "come to life" when the exile ends (Ez. 37:14).
R. Sungenis : It is not proper to translate BEMOTAYO as deaths. Although it is a noun of plural construct, it has a third person singular suffix attached to it, which takes the precedence, hence death not deaths.
Jewish interlocutor : 53:9 "He had done no violence." See Matt. 21:12; Mk. 11:15-16; Lk. 19:45; Lk. 19:27; Matt. 10:34 and Lk. 12:51; then judge for yourself whether this passage is truly consistent with the New Testament account of Jesus.
R. Sungenis: Yes, we will judge for ourselves, because the above passages are not speaking about the violence that Isaiah 53:9 is. The word CHAMAS (violence) in Isaiah 53:9 refers in the main to evil, wrongful, injurious violence (e.g., Gen 6:11, 13; 16:5; 49:5; Ex 23:1; Dt 19:16 and many more). The Gospel narratives are speaking about righteous indignation against evil.
Jewish interlocutor : 53:10 "He shall see his seed." The Hebrew word for "seed", used in this verse, always refers to physical descendants in our Jewish Scriptures. See, e.g., Gen. 12:7; Gen. 15:13; Gen. 46:6; Ex. 28:43. A different word, generally translated as "sons", is used to refer to spiritual descendants (see Deut. 14:1, e.g.).
R. Sungenis: Although ZERAA (seed) can refer to physical or spiritual, if you insist on it being only physical, then you have to answer St. Pauls argument in Galatians 3:16, which says:
Now to Abraham were the promises spoken, and to his seed. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Here is where using the plural or singular really counts, since the singular seed (used at various points in Genesis 12-22), points to one person, not many.
Jewish interlocutor : 53:10 "He will prolong his days." Not only did Jesus die young, but how could the days be prolonged of someone who is alleged to be God?
R. Sungenis : His days were prolonged both in the fact that he was raised from the dead and that he ascended into heaven, bodily, and now reigns from heaven never to die again. Notice in Isaiah 53:10 that the prolonging of days occurs after Yahweh crushes him and makes him a guilt offering, which both refer to the crucifixion. It was after the crucifixion that Christ was raised from the dead in three days.
Jewish interlocutor : 53:11 "With his knowledge the righteous one, my Servant, will cause many to be just." Note again the correct translation: the Servant will cause many to be just, he will not "justify the many." The Jewish mission is to serve as a "light to the nations" which will ultimately lead the world to a knowledge of the one true God, this both by example (Deut. 4:5-8; Zech. 8:23) and by instructing the nations in God's Law (Isa. 2:3-4; Micah 4:2-3).
R. Sungenis : Yes, it WAS the Jewish mission to serve as a light to the nations, but Israel failed in her mission and that is why God rejected the Jewish nation and turned the Gospel over to the Church. Now it is the Churchs mission to be a light to the nations. This obviously answers why you were once a vibrant people but have been subdued for the last 2000 years. It stands to reason that God would not leave the world without a light for 2000 years, thus your insistence that you still are the light makes no sense.
Jewish interlocutor : 53:12 "Therefore, I will divide a portion to him with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the mighty." If Jesus is God, does the idea of reward have any meaning? Is it not rather the Jewish people - who righteously bore the sins of the world and yet remained faithful to God (Ps. 44) - who will be rewarded, and this in the manner described more fully in Isaiah chapters 52 and 54?
R. Sungenis : First, Jesus is a God-Man, not merely God. As such, he undertakes all the rigors of humanity, and because, unlike Adam, he passed all the tests, he is thus rewarded, and the humanity that he represents will also share with him in the reward (Romans 8:17).
Second, the Jewish people did not remain faithful to God. Psalm 44 was written during the reign of David, a good king, long before Israel went into its abhorrent apostasy in the divided monarchy. Out of 40 kings after Solomon (20 in the north and 20 in the south) only 10 of them from the south showed any semblance of devotion to God, and even then there were problems in their reigns. Accordingly, the prophets, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Hosea, et al., practically scream about the sins of Israel and Judah that reached up to high heaven. That is precisely why the north was decimated by Assyria, and the south taken into captivity by Babylon. The Jewish people didnt bare any sin of the world, they were one of the main sources of the sin! Read your own prophets, for heavens sake. But like Jesus said of you in Matt 23:37-38:
37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, killing the prophets and stoning those who are sent to you! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not!
38 Behold, your house is forsaken and desolate.
Jewish interlocutor : Virgin Fallacy. We recently were asked the following by one of our visitors: A Christian co-worker recently told me that the Bible contains a prophecy, in the book of Isaiah, forecasting that the Messiah would be born to a virgin mother. She then showed me the verse in her Bible: "Therefore the L-rd Himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel." I suspect that something must be wrong here. Could you please shed some light on this matter as this sounds like it was fulfilled by Jesus.
Although this passage has historically been a favorite Christian "prooftext", serious weaknesses have caused a recent decline in its popularity. A comprehensive examination of this verse (Isaiah 7:14) is beyond the scope of this column; we will limit ourselves to a consideration of just two of its many problems. Someone once quipped that "a text without a context is pretext". The first question that needs to be raised is whether the verse cited here is indeed a reference to the Messiah. We might ask the missionary to provide some compelling reason for us to accept that the verse warrants such an interpretation. We suspect that the missionary will be hard-pressed to provide a logical basis for this assumption.
Then, of course, there is the crucial issue of the general context. The seventh chapter of Isaiah takes place about 700 BCE, and describes an alliance between Syria and the northern kingdom of Israel, whose combined forces threaten to destroy the kingdom of Judah. The prophet Isaiah assures Achaz, King of Judah, that G-d will protect his kingdom. He prophesies that a child will be born to a certain woman, and that, before the child learns to distinguish good from evil, the two kingdoms threatening Judah will be destroyed (verses 15 - 16). The prophecy contained in Isaiah 7 clearly addresses this particular political crisis; it in no way refers to the concept of a Messiah. Furthermore, Jesus was not born until 700 years later; his birth could hardly offer any reassurance to King Achaz!
The second flaw in this prooftext, and the one which ultimately condemns it to oblivion, is that it's founded upon blatant mistranslation. Isaiah, in fact, merely speaks of "the young woman "almah" who will give birth. Christian translators took great license, as did the New Testament when it "quoted" this verse in Matthew, when they rendered this word "virgin". There is a specific Hebrew word for "virgin" (betulah), which Isaiah would have used if that were what he meant.
Modern Christian scholarship has recognized that the "virgin birth" prophecy is based upon a distortion of the Hebrew scriptures. Beginning with the Revised Standard Version of the Bible in 1952, virtually all Christian translations have adopted "young woman" rather than "virgin" as the correct rendering of "almah".
R. Sungenis : The word ALMAH appears only seven times in the Hebrew Bible (Gn 24:43; Ex 2:8; Ps 68:25; Pr 30:19; Sg 1:3; 6:8; Is 7:14), thus the evidence upon which to base such conclusions is rather limited. None of the above passages suggest that ALMAH refers to a woman who is married or has had sexual relations. Conversely, there are explicit indications that ALMAH refers to an unmarried woman who had had no sexual relations. First, in Gn 24:43, ALMAH is used to refer to Rebecca before she is married to Isaac. Yet in the same context (Gn 24:16), Rebecca is referred to as BETHULAH (The maiden was very fair to look upon, a virgin, whom no man had known). This interchange of terms means that ALMAH could certainly be interchanged with BETHULAH, and was understood to designate a virgin. In addition, Rebecca is called a maiden in the same passage, from the Hebrew NAARAH, which, similar to ALMAH, refers in Hebrew to a young woman, but also a virgin, as noted in Dt 22:15-29 in which the husband suspects his wife was not a virgin when they married. Identical to the interchange of ALMAH and BETHULAH contained in Gn 24:16 and 43, again in Dt 22:23 and 28; Judges 21:12; 1 Kings 1:2 and Esther 2:3, NAARAH and BETHULAH are interchanged. Added to these is the use of BETHULAH in Ex 22:16, which, in a similar context to that of Dt 22, also refers to virginity before marriage.
The usage of ALMAH in Pro. 30:19 also refers to a virgin. In this passage, the way of a man with a maid (ALMAH) who is assumed to be a virgin since she is unmarried, is contrasted in the next verse, Pro 30:20, with an adulterous woman who is understood as married but having sexual relations with other men.
The usage of ALMAH in Song 1:3 leads to the same conclusion, since in the context the maidens are attracted to the loving man of Solomons Song, implying they are refraining from sexual relations with him sot that the loving man can be intimate with his one and only lover.
The above passages also show that ALMAH refers to more than identifying a girl or young woman. ALMAH has procreative overtones, referring in the main to a young woman who has the potential of engaging in sexual relations but who has refrained for one reason or another. This connotation, of course, would also fit the Blessed Virgin Mary who, tradition holds, took a vow of celibacy.
The above analysis is confirmed by the fact that the LXX translates the Hebrew ALMAH with the Greek PARTHENOS (virgin) in both Gn 24:43 and Isaiah 7:14, showing that the Alexandrian Jews understood the latter term to be identical with the former. Moreover, the LXX rendering includes the Greek article HE in the phrase HE PARTHENOS, as does Matthew following the article HE in the Hebrew of Isaiah 7:14, HA ALMAH. Hence, the sign is not merely a virgin, that is, she is not any young woman who shall conceive by normal means, but THE virgin. The stature engendered by the article coincides with the testimony of the greatness of her offspring (cf. Micah 5:3; Isaiah 8:8; 9:5-6; 11:1-10)
Did you not write those words, Mr. Moseley? Then allow me to tell you that they also apply to YOU in reference to the Talmud. You are NOT fluent - nor well-read- in ancient Aramaic and the methodology employed by the rabbis. Christ "IS" repeatedly blasphemed in the Talmud and those who ARE fluent and well read agree that this is a fact. Do you imagine the rabbis would only have nice pleasant things to say about "that MAN" who "led Israel astray?" Compare these comments with what the Pharisees had to say about Jesus in the New Testament. Notice a recurring pattern here? If not, are you that blind? Need I refresh your memory for you?
What do you think of this recent Jewish mockery of Jesus Christ, taken from the files of "Christianity-Revealed" -
An Annual JUDAS Celebration Day!
Oh, no, just think! What would have all the Christians, the faithful
In case you hadn't guessed, this is a Jewish run forum. Once they found out I wasn't a Jew, I was expelled from the forum.
According to the author of "The Illegitimacy of Jesus," a Jewess named Jane