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As an alumnus of one of the last schools in the US with an honor code, the following email from an alumnus of the US Military Academy was a shock.

The message this woman is promoting is that a cadet who cheats is more honorable than a cadet who doesn't cheat if only he will admit that he cheated.

Gentlemen, this is a far, far cry from an "honor code".    This is almost the antithesis to an honor code.  I can guarandamntee you that not a single other fellow alumnus whom I know agrees with her.  Honorable men simply cannot accept such weasel wording.

This statement prompted us to survey other USMA alumni who provided varying opinions about why the honor code there changed since women were admitted.  While none of them repeated this claim, the statements from other women alumni proved to be equally as distressing.  Not even selecting the best women minds in the country and spending hundreds of thousands of taxpayers' dollars to mold them into honorable "soldiers" succeeded at that task.  What happened instead is that my alma mater was effectively destroyed when it was forced by the courts to accept women in its ranks, based on the "success" of women at the USMA.

I despise the women who destroyed my alma mater and its honor code, using the force of law to do so.

 

 

 

 

From blee@vvm.comSat Feb 10 11:49:00 1996
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 17:53:58 -0600
From: Bethany Lee <blee@vvm.com>
To: fathers <fathers9@idt.liberty.com>
Subject: Re: Please Help VMI
To Whom It May Concern:
        As a recent graduate of West Point, I can say that the honor code
did not change while there.  The code remains "A cadet will not lie, cheat,
or steal, nor tolerate those who do."  However, the consequences that result
when a cadet breaks the code have changed.  If a cadet lies, cheats or
steals, and doesn't own up to his/her actions, and the Honor Board finds the
cadet has violated the code, the cadet will be permanently expelled.
However, if a cadet violates the code, and possesses the moral courage to
admit it (depending on the severity of the action), the cadet will either be
suspended for a year with the option to return with a different year group,
or given the option to serve in the Army as a SPC for a year and reapply to
the Academy with another yeargroup (if reaccepted).
        The basis for these changes is that sometimes the more honorable
thing to do is to admit your mistakes.  If a person can own up to violating
the code while knowing the severity of the consequences that ensue, than
that person may actually be of stronger moral fiber than one who doesn't
violate the code to begin with or one who doesn't get caught.
        I sincerely believe that no correlation exists between the change in
the consequences of the honor code with the admittance of women to West
Point.  Women have attended West Point for over 25 years now. Why would such
changes only be seen 26 years following their admission as opposed to
immediately afterwards (or at least in the first decade!).
Very Respectfully,
                Bethany Lee  USMA 1992

 

 

 

 

Your candid insights into changes at West Point, particularly to the Honor  Code, since women were admitted, have enabled the following summary to be    completed. Even though the original question was "Do you know if West    Point's Honor Code has indeed changed, and is it your opinion that the    admission of women led to this change?", these impromptu responses    illustrate the breadth of alumni opinions about why or if such changes    occurred.  Any message which should not be forwarded to the 500 member list should be  marked "PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL" in the subject header so it will be  used only in the final statistical summary. Otherwise it will be assumed    that it is available to the entire forum.  

"...never to be content with a half truth when the whole can be won."

Poll results from USMA Almumni on the West Point Honor Code

FactorPercent of responses
The Honor Code has weakened38%
Admission of women did not affect the Honor Code37%
Admission of women led directly to changes in the Honor Code6%
Admission of women led indirectly to a weakening of the Honor Code3%
Admission of women weakened WP in other ways64%
Unaware of Honor Code changes at WP15%
Changes were due to different background of incoming cadets 10%
Change in Honor Code was in enforcement, not wording6%
Change from science/engineering to liberal arts reduced discipline1%
100+ cadets found guilty of honor violations reinstated in next class3%
Toleration clause was added6%
Affirmative action undermined the concept of honor in general society3%
Wording of the Cadet Prayer was changed1%
Supreme Court kicked God out of academies & classrooms 2%
Changes were due to the opposite sex together in close quarters2%
Changes due to cheating scandal of 19767%
Legal eagles became involved and changed the system1%
Academy removed "the silence" as a tradition4%
Class honor rep turned himself in - honor violation - suspended a year2%
Underlying current of "if you don't get caught, it's OK." 2%
"tolerate the acts of those who do" to separate the deed from person1%
Demise of a family-based society requires the changes2%
Change based on "more honorable thing to do is to admit your mistakes"2%
Second level of standards exists, but not for Honor Code1%
Cheating scandal was one year before admission of women1%
People caught having sex maybe lied to hide the truth3%
Men frustrated by dual physical standards more willing to cheat2%
Now have locks on the doors 2%
"Cadets don't adhere to the honor code at all times"1%
MISSION statement changed after admitting women1%
"If you need some good examples of males who "beat" the honor system, let me know. I am a '91 graduate of the Naval Academy,  and I saw enough examples of such"1%
Women have not accomplished the same things as men5%
False sense of accomplishment/security from co-ed military training2%
Cadets now listed alphabetically and not by class rank3%
"Warrior" mentality no longer the raison d'etre for going to West Point4%
Admission of women is based only on "Political Correctness"6%
Have no information on the impact of the admission of women1%
Psychological differences of women impedes combat readiness2%
No standards should be lowered to accept anyone at WP2%
Reducing other standards affected WP more than Honor Code changes3%
Women should not be in the military at all3%
Single-sex education should be preserved6%
Even combat arms soldiers must know how to work effectively with women1%
Absence of women should not be a source of pride1%
"This suggestion is rather offensive"2%
VMI should stop accepting state funding to remain single-sex6%
Men were afraid to 'correct' women plebes, as they may be accused of harassment. Therefore, male plebes received much more harassment than women. Take for instance the Navy Scandal (where a female plebe was shackled to a toilet in a latrine) - if that had happened to a male it would be commonplace and laughable, not a scandal.1%

 

 

On 13 Feb 1996, Andrew Diabo wrote:
> If you remember me, I was one who indirectly pointed out that the admission of
> women to West Point was the cause of 'changes' in West Point.  There were a
> lot of 'changes' to West Point during my time there and I feel that those
> changes
> were inevitable due to the final decision to admit women.  Since women are
> around, the honor code has been 'soften' (not that it was rigid, but it was more
> precise and effective back then) to adapt to their presence.  The bare fact that
> we just cannot treat women as equals when it comes to 'combat' and military
> ideology and it is a hard truth for many to accept.
> 
> Whether West Point was a success in admitting women, I for one can say that
> it was a success to admit women without any real damage but could be more
> of a success in creating a bigger and stronger graduate force.  I graduated
> from West Point and I saw a lot who swayed away from graduation and success.
> The Honor Code is something we cherish and live by until today and if it is
> tampered, so is our lives and honor.
> 
> Regards
> Andrew Diabo
> Class of '88
> West Point (USMA)

 

From MAriyo@aol.comSun Feb 18 23:32:40 1996
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 1996 01:16:49 -0500
From: MAriyo@aol.com
To: fathers9@idt.liberty.com
Subject: Re: VMI Forum 
Mr. Knight,
Please delete my e-mail address permanently from your forum.  I do not wish
to read nor reply to the subject matter being discussed.
Donna H. (Lee) Ariyoshi, West Point '86
From RoseyDC@aol.comMon Feb 19 22:47:37 1996
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 1996 20:18:11 -0500
From: RoseyDC@aol.com
To: fathers9@idt.liberty.com
Subject: Re: Please Help VMI
Hi....
I know this is a bit late sinceI saw the results already, but I still wanted
to give my 2 cents worth. 
I cannot say whether the honor code has changed since the entry of woment ot
the academy. I was not there then.  Nor can those who were there previously
say how it is now.  They are not there now.  The honor code changed/evolved
during my four years there.  It is an evolving code which reflects the corps
attitudes as it is run by the corps. I do not believe that women entering the
academy was the primary cause of any changes.  It was the entering of a
population which may have slightly different views on what the honor code
entails.  Just like when the academy was integrated.  Certainly the honor
code changed then. Otherwise how could have "racial crimes" occured without
out any reporting.  Certainly there is a period of adjustment. After that
short period it levels out from extremes to a more moderate balance.
Women should be allowed into VMI and the Citadel.  A seperate institution is
not a viable solution.  We already know from the Supreme Court seperate is
not equal.  If a woman can hang with the men she should be there.  Shannon
Faulkner should not have been there.  She should not hhave been at West Point
either.  She was not in shape.  However, she and any other woman should have
the opportunity to apply and be accepted.  Just like any man.  I can do it.
If I wanted to be there then there is no reason for me not to be allowed to.
Rose
Class of 1995
From buelp@sarda.army.milTue Feb 20 13:28:09 1996
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 16:19:00 -0500
From: "Buel, Pattie" <buelp@sarda.army.mil>
To: fathers <fathers9@idt.liberty.com>
Subject: RE: VMI Forum
I have spent the most of the last hour reading mail generated by the forum 
and found I have a few comments.
Ref Mr Hoskinson's reply on the Honor system and demerits:
I believe this option (demerits) was done away with well before I entered 
the academy (Jul '81) but I would like to know when.  Maybe having this 
option (for minor violations - inaccurate statements made spontaneously and 
not immediately corrected and honest mistakes) would make cadets more likely 
to admit to them.  If a cadet deliberately lies, he should be expelled.  An 
officer's word should be solid gold.
Ref the replies regarding physical standards:
People must acknowledge the physiological differences between men and women. 
 If physical fitness standards are to challenge both sexes, the standards 
(for certain events) must be different.  Personally I have no problem with 
different standards for the push-up, but standards for sit-ups and the run 
should be the same ior at least closer for both sexes.  Perhaps the sit-up 
standard for women should be HIGHER than for men.  The goal is to set 
standards that willcause both sexes to EQUALLY EXERT themselves in order to 
meet them.  [I'm not good at push-ups - never have been, never will.  But I 
can run as fast as do as many if not more sit-ups than many men my age.]  If 
the standard requires the average cadet to work hard to achieve it, then it 
is fair.  You can't challenge everyone.  For some people, the motivation to 
excel is internal, for others it's based on meeting an external standard.
In case VMI loses its fight (and I hope your alternative program proves 
successful), you should do extensive research so you can adequately set the 
standards.  At USMA, the biggest gripe from male cadets was the time 
difference for the indoor obstacle course.  Men had 3+ minutes, women had 
6+.  On the surface this looks very unfair.  However, what many men did not 
realize was the difference in penaltoes given if you could not make and 
obstacle.  For example, failing to make the 7 foot hanging shelf - a man got 
held 15 seconds and went up the ladder, ditto for the woman but she got an 
additional 45 seconds tacked on at the end.  Same type of unequal penalties 
for the 16 foot rope climb.  If the additional penalties had not been there, 
the time differences would have been greatly reduced.
As far as allowing women into combat arms branches, I say if women can meet 
the physical standards they should be allowed in.  Those standards must be 
based on wartime conditions and therefore include endurance for long 
deployments and covering many miles by foot.  We, however, are not going to 
change the politics involved in women in combat and position coding.
Ref federal funds -
To me this issue is not federal funding, but DOD commissions.  Any school 
that receives equal treatment as a DOD commissioning source should have the 
same admissions policy as regards to sex as the DOD institutions.  I think a 
school remain private so long as the majority of its funding does not come 
from federal or state tax dollars.
Ref sexual harassment:
Sexual harassment is alive and well in America.  It existed when I was a 
cadet but it was not reported.   If an upperclass cadet is afraid to quiz a 
plebe on required knowledge because of possible sexual harassment charges, 
then things have gone too far in the opposite direction.  I understand the 
definition of sexual harassment to be "unwanted attention or advances of a 
sexual nature."  If you leave off the "of a sexual nature", you're left with 
harassment and all plebes get harassed.  Yes, there are fellow women (can I 
say that? - "fellow" women) out there who will scream sexual harassment or 
turn on the tears anytime things don't go their way.  I pity those women 
because they cannot or will not achieve anything important in their lives 
through their own efforts.
Patricia Buel, USMA 85

 

 

 

From buelp@sarda.army.milMon Feb 12 10:21:25 1996
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 09:56:00 -0500
From: "Buel, Pattie" <buelp@sarda.army.mil>
To: fathers <fathers9@idt.liberty.com>
Subject: RE: Please Help VMI
As a class of 1985 graduate, I can state that while I was there the Honor
Code had not changed - either in language (A cadet will not lie, cheat or
steal nor tolerate those who do.) or in enforcement.   My class honor rep
for our company turned himself in for an honor violation when we were
juniors (he was suspended for a year). I know of others who were turned in
by professors, roommates, etc.  These people were both male and female.
 During my four years, we had no locks on the doors (although I understand
this has changed) and you kept your valuables in either your lockbox or your
footlocker.
The Academy was talking about changing the phrasing of the Honor Code to
reflect "tolerate the acts of those who do" to separate the deed from the
person.  If the Honor code has changed (in enforcement), I do not think it
is a reflection of women being at the academy.  Instead I believe it is a
reflection of the different environment today's cadets were brought up in
where personal  honor is a concept that many of them do not understand until
after they get to the Academy.
Personally I found upon graduation that I had to change the way I responded
to people who were not from West Point.  Some people could not be counted on
to do things just because they said they would, and some would outright lie
if they though that's what you wanted to hear.  Don't get me wrong - I'm a
strong believer in the Honor Code and I believe that all officers should be
able to take another officer at his/her word without regard to commissioning
source.  It was rather disillusioning to find that wasn't so.
Patricia Buel, USMA '85
 

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