----- Original Message -----

From: "TruthorTradition Moderator" <[email protected]>

To: <[email protected]>

Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 11:47 AM

Subject: File - Good bye

> Sorry you had to leave. Come and visit sometime.
> Our doors are always open.
> May God bless you and keep your Forever in His Hands,
> George....


----- Original Message -----

From: "Tim H" <[email protected]>

To: <[email protected]>

Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 6:26 AM

Subject: [TruthorTradition] Re: Attention all members


I agree, Steph.
Love in Christ,
Tim H
(another moderator)

> Stephanie wrote:
> I am adding a new rule for the group, all this discussion
on different races and all that type of discussion is banned,
no more , it does not edify we are here to discuss things in
the Spirit of Christ, I am adding this rule because some of
the members have complained and if you would like to discuss
this subject with others in the group please take it to
private email or meet in a chat room .  Thank you all.
> Love in Christ,
> Steph
> one of the moderators



Sorry John.  I'm racist against rasists.  I don't assosiate with
those who differentiat between colors and nationality.  Get the

In Christ,  George...

> Dear Harry,
> You asked:
>   "Would you fully welcome any Christian from any ethnic or racial
background who came into your church? That would include whoever
descended from the Edomites, Ammonites or Moabites, too."
> To answer your question directly from a Scriptural perspective,
the Holy Bible, God, and Jesus all say the same thing:  they can
NEVER enter the congregation of the LORD, FOREVER, thus they can
never be Christians anyway.  Not even your buddy Paul can ever
change that, so certainly we Christians can't change that.  Anyone
who tries risks the Wrath of God:
>   Deuteronomy 23:3 An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the
congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they
not enter into the congregation of the LORD forever:
> Another consideration is that the Preamble to US Constitution was
written strictly for the posterity of our Founding Forefathers, and
this excludes all other races, by design.  The constitution can be
amended, but it never has been in this regard, and even if it were
to be amended, the Preamble cannot ever be changed:
>   PREAMBLE We, the people of the United States, in order to form a
more perfect Union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility,
provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and
secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do
ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of
> Last but not least, from a purely legal perspective, your right to
impose other races on me and mine will never exceed our right to
associate freely with whom we choose. You may think that certain
legal machinations could accomplish such a thing, but all such
attempts have failed utterly and the races in this country are now
more segregated than they've ever been, and happily so for most of
> You may disagree, and that's your right.  You may get insulting,
and to a degree that's your right also.  But you'll never have a
right to impose races on us whom we choose not to associate with
because our right to remain holy [read: segregated] from the peoples
who are on the face of the earth comes straight from God:
>   For thou [Israelites] art a holy people unto the LORD your God;
and the LORD hath chosen you to be a people to Him, a special
treasure out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth,
Deuteronomy 14:2
> Sincerely,
> John Knight
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Harry
>   To: [email protected]
>   Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 5:48 PM
>   Subject: [TruthorTradition] JK & 1 John 3:15:Brothers & Races-
Love & Hate(HR)/Weiland-Blacks,Jews-Gal. 3(HR)
>       JK (& all),
>       See below....
>   JK:
>   As you can see from the following verse with Strong's numbers,
the word "brother" is translated from the Greek word "adelphos",
Strong's #80, which means literally of the same womb:
>   1Jo 3:15 Whosoever3956 hateth3404 his848 brother80 is2076 a
murderer:443 and2532 ye know1492 that3754 no3956, 3756 murderer443
hath2192 eternal166 life2222 abiding3306 in1722 him.846
>   G80
>   α�"δελ�?ο��,
>   adelphos
>   ad-el-fos'
>   From G1 (as a connective particle) and δελ�?�.��, delphus
(the womb); a brother (literally or figuratively) near or remote
(much like [H1]): - brother.
>   HARRY 3/12:
>       That is the bare meaning. Is it just literal brothers, or
spiritual brethren? Limited to a ethnic people, or more?
>       These are some of the passages where the word is used:
>   Rom 14:10,13,15,21;16:23
>   1 Cor. 5:11;8:11,13
>   2 Cor. 1:1
>   Eph. 6:21
>   Col. 1:1
>   1 Thess. 3:2
>   2 Peter 3:15
>   and in 1 John:
>   1 John 2:9,10,11;3:10,12,14,15,174:20,21;5:16
>   Rev. 1:9
>       These are just some of the passages that demonstrate that
the reference doesn't have to be with blood brothers.
>       There are a number of references to Christian brethren, that
transcends race and skin color.
>       See below....
>   JK:
>   Do you believe it's even remotely possible that Edomites, who
are descendants of Esau who God HATES, are also "brothers" in the
sense of 1 John 3:15?
>   Was not Esau Jacob's brother? says the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
but hated Esau; I made his mountains a waste, his heritage a desert
for jackals, Malachai 1:3
>   As it is written: "I loved Jacob but hated Esau.", Rom 9:13
>   Bear in mind that it was Paul who quoted Malachai 1:3, so if you
trust anything that Paul ever wrote, you must trust this.
>   What about Moabites or Ammonites who can NEVER enter the
congregation of the LORD?:
>   An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of
the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into
the congregation of the LORD forever: Deuteronomy 23:3
>   Is it REALLY possible that 1 John 3:15 could ever apply to them?
>   Sincerely,
>   John Knight
>   HARRY 3/12:
>       You said:
>   "Is it REALLY possible that 1 John 3:15 could ever apply to
>       Yup!
>       1) Tim can trust Paul without trusting your opinions about
what the NT Paul wrote.
>       2) All Christians should love other Christians, whether they
are Black, came from Judaism, or whatever race, or ethnic
background, correct?
>       Would you fully welcome any Christian from any ethnic or
racial background who came into your church? That would include
whoever descended from the Edomites, Ammonites or Moabites, too.
>       Equal standing for membership, leadership, whatever, with
the 'Whites' among you?
>       Rejecting the blessed title of your "christianparty"
of "Nigger"?
>       That would fall under the principle of Galatians 3:26,28
>   "For you are ALL sons of God through FAITH in Christ Jesus.
>   "For ALL of you who were baptized into Christ [whether water, or
spiritual baptism, as in 1 Cor. 12:13] have clothed yourselves WITH
>   "There is NEITHER Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free
man, there is neither male nor female; for you are ALL ONE *in
Christ Jesus*."
>       3) Deuteronomy 23:3 is taken out of its time context,
historical context, and its original intent.
>       It was speaking in the ancient Hebrew/Jewish times about a
specific group at that time and referred to the Hebrew/Jewish
worship place.
>       I do not see textual justification for saying we should give
it to the church.
>       The "brothers" are spiritual brothers, and they can come
from any racial or ethnic background, the NT 'God' wants "ALL to
come to repentance", and "ALL" those who are Christians are part of
the same body of Christians (Gal. 3, 1 Cor. 12:13, etc), and we are
referring to what the NT speaks to the Christian church, not the
Hebrew/Jewish Bible about things that were directed to their
worship, their places of worship at that time, and such things.
>       I look forward to hearing back on these points and passages.
>       Harry



On Friday, Mar. 10 at 10:26 AM, [email protected] wrote:

<<I disgree with much, perhaps even most, of what John Knight believes,
but where has he personally attacked anyone? I believe that that would
have to be the primary reason for removing him. His conversation is,
at least, thought provoking and requires someone who believes in Jesus
to seek the Truth of the matter, by searching the scriptures and by
prayer. Unless he breaks the forum rules, leave him be.>>


i have not heard anything yet from george or tim. if i do not hear something soon, i can only assume that their silence means that they condone his racism.  if that is the case, i cannot belong to this group. i'll give it one more day.


- the apple




From: [email protected]

To: [email protected]

Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 3:07 PM

Subject: Re: [TruthorTradition] question for tim or george

tim? george?, are you going to continue to let john knight be a member of this group?


- the apple

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [TruthorTradition] Torah Calendar, not Talmud calendar
From: [email protected]
Date: Tue, February 28, 2006 10:36 am
To: [email protected]

In a message dated 2/28/2006 6:50:28 AM US Mountain Standard Time, [email protected] writes:

Is it because jew Bill Goetz of Microsoft follows the jew calendar and ordered that your Microsoft calendar reflect the Talmud and not the Torah?

Ya know Mr. Knight, as much as I would like to be able to discuses these things with you sir, I just can't stomach your anti-Semitic spirit any longer, and still be able to keep my food down.

Sorry you had to blow a great opportunity for the both of us to learn and grow in the Truth of God and move out of the traditions of men.

Consider this our goodby John.





[TruthorTradition] JK:Weiland on Jews-Blacks(HR)(WAS:Scriptural Accounts Showing Gentiles Not "Gra)

[email protected]; on behalf of; Harry [email protected]


    I looked at the website you posted, and found things that are very disturbing:


    1) Five Minute Poll on Exiling Blacks



    This charming "Christian Party" website is into exiling Blacks from the USA back to Africa.


    2) Standard Test Scores


    This is a test to show how intellectually inferior some or all other races are.

    Called Jewish people "Jew boys" and "
Jew girls", and this  non-rude (?!) and "kind" ( 1 Cor. 13:4-5) website calls Black boys and girls "nigger boys" and "nigger girls".

    John, did you know this website had such nasty poison? Do you agree with this?

    His definitions will be molded to support his errors, and insulting, bigoted insults.

    Please forsake this guy, and purify yourself from these things.

    I look forward to hearing back on these things. All are welcome to share, of  course.

    Take care.


--- In [email protected], "Jacob Israel" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Excellent question, Donimus.
> Non-Israelites being "grafted in" is no place in Scripture, and Paul has no
> such authority.
> Tim, it may take some time, and perhaps it'll never happen, but you must
> learn what the word "gentile", which is translated from "ethnos" in Greek
> and "goy" in Hebrew, actually means. In Galatians 3, it's a reference to
> Israelites of the House of Israel, but in other contexts it refers to
> everyone but the house of Israel. Pastor Ted Weiland wrote an excellent
> paper on this which takes quite a bit of study to really get it to sink in
> http://fathersmanifesto.net/weiland.htm but it's well worth the try.
> Once you cross that bridge, you'll then realize that Paul would never dare
> do something so contrary to Jesus and God's Word.
> Sincerely,
> John Knight
> _____
> From: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of dsimmons
> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 4:03 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [TruthorTradition] Scriptural Accounts Showing Gentiles Not
> "Grafted In" (was: SEA/ALL-Bible & Sabbath-PT 1 of 2 [HR]-REPOST)
> "However, Paul makes it plain..."
> Herein lies the error. IF (and that's a big "IF") your notion, as given by
> Saul of Tarsus is correct, then please cite other scriptural proof texts
> other than Saul & Co. that collaborate with this. If his logic is
> Scripturally sound then there has to be documented Scripture to verify it
> against. I don't recall anything in the Tanakh along these lines...
> If you have provided this in a previous post and I have missed it, my
> apologies. I've been so swamped of late I'm pulling my hair out like Moe
> used to Larry's! ;D
> ---
> Shalom in Y'shua,
> Donimus
> "When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth,
> he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest!" - Author Unknown
> On 2/14/06 5:41 PM, "Tim H" wrote:
> Hi John, I agree with you that the Gentiles were not
> grafted into Israel. God made an everlasting covenant
> with Abraham. He made promises that will be fulfilled.
> However, Paul makes it plain that those who are in Christ,
> i.e., members of the Body of Christ, i.e., the Church,
> which is neither Jew nor Gentile, but are new creatures
> in Christ, are heirs according to the promise to Abraham,
> but that is not to say they are grafted into Israel.
> Israel is Israel, and the Church is the Church.
> Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in
> Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized
> into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew
> nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither
> male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And
> if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs
> according to the promise.
> Love in Christ,
> Tim H