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                                                           Lewis Loflin And Utter Stupidity On Trial


There are many irritating things about Lewis Loflin’s extraordinary screed in which he failed miserably in his attempt to condemn Willie Martin, but the most irritating might be his association of Timothy McVey who thought he was an “Aryan” with Willie Martin who knew he was an Israelite and that Aryans are Iranians and Afghans.  What could be more different than two White men who have such a vast difference of opinion about their own heritage than this?  Lewis Loflin’s utterly absurd and insulting critique of Willie Martin needs to be quoted in full in order to comprehend the magnitude of the depravity of this man's "mind"--as well as to assure that he doesn't suddenly remove this page from the following web site and then pretend that he never wrote such a screed: 

If you'd like to provide your inputs, please do so at where a complete trial of "Lewis Loflin" is being conducted.


Willie Martin and Christian Identity on Trial

By Lewis Loflin

Christian Identity is a Neo-Nazi cult. They refer to mainstream Christianity as a "Jew religion" and substitute their own occult beliefs. Willie Martin is a member of this cult who floods newsgroups and bulletin boards with an endless stream of hate against Jews and non-whites.

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It’s truly hard to imagine how a “veteran” who claims that he “talked to Willie by e-mail” would come away from that meeting believing just the OPPOSITE of what Willie said.  NOTHING could be further from the truth than to claim that Willie supports “nazis” of any form, neo or otherwise.  Willie in fact on numerous occasions and in many of his “floods [of] newsgroups and bulletin boards with an endless stream” has stated just the opposite, which is that most of the Nazis under Hitler were jews and Willie was NOT a jew, and if Lewis ever understood anything he ever read, how could he have had such a serious misunderstanding of what Willie stood for?  Is it disingenuous or merely ignorant or stupid for a “veteran” to so seriously misunderstand a patriot and a watchman on the wall like Mr. Martin?


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Willie Martin is in fact a 62-year-old disabled oil worker who lives in Texas. I have talked to Willie by e-mail and he really does believe what he says. His justifies his anger and rage at the world with a wall of hate painted over with paranoia and endless conspiracy theories. While I can sympathize with some of his complaints, advocating armed overthrow of our government, genocide and murder/terror as state policy just goes too far.

Randy "Ruby Ridge" Weaver visits our community, gets it wrong again.
Tim McVeigh and Christian Identity
What Christian Identity thinks of Baptists
Khazars and the Jews
Debunking the Protocols

What is more shocking to me as a veteran is most of these crazies are veterans who served their country with honor but for some reason hate everything it stands for.

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This country stands for jews?  As a veteran (and the son and grandson of veterans) NO PLACE did I ever hear that my country ever stood for jews!  What I do know is that MY Founding Forefathers (but probably not Loflin’s forefathers) stood FOR Israelites, AGAINST jews, and against all other parasites of our White Christian Israelite Race!  If he doesn’t know that, then HE is the one with a problem, not us, and not a single veteran “who served their country with honor”.  I and my compatriots took an oath to God to defend our US Constitution against all foreign and domestic enemies—and right now a man as ignorant as Loflin qualifies as one of the domestic variety.

His claim of “anger and rage at the world” suggests that Lewis never did connect the dots that “the world” and “jews” are not one and the same.  Willie LOVED his world far more than traitors like Loflin ever could, something they may never fully comprehend.

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What is really odd is the vast majority of these right-winger's who want a war in our own backyards have never seen combat. (I haven't either, in fact most vets never do.) Those who I have known to be in combat (two older brothers in "Nam" etc.) don't want to bring the jungle home and would rather forget it. It seems the military "revs up" these people for war, then leaves them hanging. The only problem is that some of them are still waiting for that war that never came. Combine that with the American Christian obsession with Armageddon in the Book of Revelation, we have a recipe for tragedy.

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Well, I didn’t go to Korea and Vietnam with the idea of bringing any war back here, but if I’d known how ingrates like Loflin would be insulting my intelligence by making such a ludicrous claim, I might have learned much earlier that my real enemies were morons like him back home rather than gooks in Asia.

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These attitudes towards the world has led to the creation of monsters such as Tim McVeigh whose hatred and paranoia has led to the deaths of a 168 innocent victims of "collateral damage" in Oklahoma City. We also ended up with Randy "Ruby Ridge" Weaver, a coward who hid behind his armed children to escape the law and whose paranoid bullshit led to the deaths of his son Sammy and his wife Vicki. Let's look into their claims for an idea how seemingly normal people can go off the deep end.

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 A jury of his peers found the GOVERNMENT, not Randy Weaver, guilty of some very egregious violations of rights, to the tune of millions of dollars—yet traitors like Loflin still view Weaver as the problem?  Mr. Loflin, for his own sake, is THE man whom we pray is next in the government’s crosshairs.  When they pull the trigger, we will be the LAST to try to save his sorry cowardly hide.

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What are their real claims? They are as follows:

  1. The actual chosen people of the Bible are the Anglo-Saxon white Europeans descended from the lost 10 tribes of ancient Israel who have been secretly hiding in Europe. Hebrew is actually the ancient tongue of the Germans, Celts, etc. (Jesus was also British) Thus Europeans are the Jews of the Bible!

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      bulletWho was Jeremiah, who was buried 2,597 years ago in a cairn in County Meath, Ireland, hiding from?  Why is his journey with Tia Tephi from Israel to Ireland written all over his tomb? 
      bulletALL of the European languages are descendent from Hebrew, and Gaelic and Korean as they’re spoken today are identical to ancient Hebrew and Phoenician.
      bulletArcheological evidence in Glastonbury, England proves that both Jesus and Joseph of Arimathea were there, that Joseph had tin mines there, and Roman tax records prove that he paid taxes to the Romans for importing tin.

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  1. All modern Jews are imposters, descended from a Turkish tribe called the Khazars that converted to Judaism. Thus Jews are the gentiles! See Khazars.

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·        Correction.  It’s the jews, not Willie nor CI, who make this ludicrous claim that 96% of jews are descendants of these Khazars.  It’s the jews, not Willie nor CI, who claim that the 2% who’re Sephardic jews are descendants of Esau. 

·        Considering how unreliable are jew writings, neither claim is credible, even though their admission that they’re not Israelites, nor Semites, is something Loflin can no longer ignore—he now admits that he understands that the jews themselves claim they are NOT Israelites.

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  1. There were really two creations: one for the non-whites, and another for Adam and Eve, who are also British. (Adam and the Adamites) Thus the Bible is a lie! See Adamites

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·        The Holy Bible is not a lie.  It’s merely Loflin’s understanding of it, or lack thereof, which is the LIE.  It records that God “made” niggers in Genesis 1:25, that He “created” the first man Adam in Genesis 1:27, and that He “formed” the last man Adam in Genesis 2:7.  Clearly traitors like Loflin don’t know this.

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Who are the people that Christian Identity and Willie Martin cite as experts? Communists, atheists, Nazis, assorted 19th century cults, and their own revelations directly from Jesus/God himself!

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The real irony here is that Lewis doesn’t even seem to realize that Willie Martin was one of the biggest, and best, and most eloquent, and the most often accurate and correct, critic of communists, atheists, Nazis, cultists, AND jews (a category Lewis “forgot”, because of fotj?).

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This is what Willie Martin says about Christians:


Thus, your local pastor is a Satanist unless they are a member of the Christian Identity cult.

What a simple minded statement.  Even IF the news media, which even judeochristians are beginning to realize over-represents jews relative to Christians by a thousand fold, and whose presentation is clearly biased against Christians and in favor of jews, were to proclaim itself to be a member of a cult or to have some understanding of Christian Identity—their clear and obvious bias against Christianity would STILL undermine all such claims.

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Their goal is nothing less than wrapping our Lord Jesus Christ in a Nazi uniform and destroying both His Word and the traditions of this great nation.

For an alternative perspective on "Christian Identity", check out:
Aryan Nations

Let's put these people on trial and decide if Jesus is a Nazi or the Son of God.


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Mr. Martin's opening remarks.

"Some critics of Identity are simply uninformed regarding the basic belief system due to an inadequate foundation of evidence and education. Others are so brainwashed by the Judeo-Christian false shepherds, writers, radio and TV personalities, that their premise that the Jews are God's Chosen People becomes an almost insurmountable barrier to open, honest and rational examination of the evidence to the contrary. Yes, Identity has become the new target of the cult watchers, the politically and religiously correct, and the simple-minded."


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My opening remarks:

Like everybody that makes radical claims, they will use anything to try to validate their beliefs. They always tend to quote fellow believers as proof they are right or references nobody can find. A good example of this is the Afro-Centrist Movement.

This silly cult claims all of our knowledge from the Greeks, Romans, etc. was stolen from Africa and everybody is a liar to claim otherwise. What is their proof? They only quote each other, scream at anyone that disagrees, and finally reveal their political/social agenda. Extreme environmentalists, feminists, and others also do this on the far left in addition to Christian Identity, Christian Reconstructionists, Neo-Nazis, etc on the far right.

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How disingenuous for Lewis to stoop so low as to now compare Christian Identity to the “Afro-Centrist Movement”.  Even Lewis admits that this supposed “movement” bases its entire view on quoting each other, whereas Willie Martin almost never quotes another Christian Identity writer, a “Christian Reconstructionist”,  and especially not a neo-nazi, invalidating this entire allegory.  Considering that Lewis must have known that Willie considered Nazis to be jews, this statement might be more credible if he’d simply claimed that Willie was a jew.

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All of these groups operate outside the mainstream and reject mainstream thought, refuse to present proof of their claims, and rely mainly on pseudo-science, false authority, and assorted mystics. They rely especially on each other.

Truth is about facts. What is fact? What most of our society considers fact it is based on both reason and experience. Our legal system (a jury) bases "fact" on the credibility of the physical evidence and those who are called as witnesses. When they can't present proof or reliable witnesses, they use other means.

The process they use is what I call "self-revelation," a process of trying to construct one's desired beliefs/arguments (outside reason and empirical evidence.) based selected bits and pieces of the Bible and other texts, and the revelations of mystics. Then they claim it's "the word of God," "secret knowledge," "special revelations" or whatever terms the author chooses to use. The idea is to confuse the jury and throw doubt on the facts. In everyday terms, we call it bullshit [sic].

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Not one single time am I aware that Willie (nor any other Christian Identity pastor or writer or watchman on the wall) ever used the terms “self-revelation”, “special revelations”, nor “secret knowledge”.  These are terms created exclusively by Lewis Loflin so that he can believe in his own mind that he has a legitimate criticism of all Christian Identity thinkers.  When we strip away such inflammatory rhetoric, there’s nothing left for Lewis to criticize except jews—which a good judeochristian traitor like Loflin would never DARE to do.

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When nobody will agree with them, they always resort to conspiracy theories, (Jews, Freemasons, New World Order, Popes, Satan, Christian Right, tooth fairies, etc.) and other assorted paranoid/irrational nonsense. The evasions and conspiracy theories are endless. The proof is up to them. Lacking proof, there is only one real chance, discredit the truth.

Thus they claim everybody else, most Christians included, just don't understand them. We've been deceived all of our lives and if we would just listen, the proof is there. Ok, I'm listening, let's look closely at this proof.

 No, Mr. Loflin might just as well forget about looking “closely at this proof”, because proving that his straw man argument is correct goes nowhere towards understanding anything about the identity of the 1 billion Israelites in the world today.

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When I asked Willy Martin for list of references for his claims, I got the following:

From Willie:

The Bible relates that the Khazar (Ashkenaz) Jews were/are the sons of Japheth not Shem: "Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood. The sons of Japheth;...the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz..." (Genesis 10:1-3) Therefore, the Bible proves that the Ashkenaz Jews [Khazars] are not the descendants of Shem and cannot be Semite.

My response: The Bible says no such thing. It says only this:

"Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood. The sons of Japheth;...the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz..." (Genesis 10:1-3)

This pattern of inserting comments and opinions into quotes doesn't make them quotes, just comments and opinions. Thus, he keeps inserting Khazar. The word Khazar is not even in the Bible. So says the King James Version Electronic Bible with word search. (see Khazar and Ashkenaz below)

 All of which ignores the FACT that if the jews are descendants of Ashkenaz as THEY claim, then by the jews’ own admission, THEY ARE NOT SEMITES.  If jews, by their OWN admission, are not Semites, then how could they be Israelites?

WHAT YOU DON’T SEEM TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT IT’S THE JEWS, NOT WILLIE, WHO CLAIMS THAT MOST JEWS ARE NOT ISRAELITES.  All Willie did was quote THEIR sources (and compared it to a valid cite from the Holy Bible).

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The History of the Jewish Khazars, by D.M. Dunlop: This guy is the only legitimate reference he cites. The only problem is he doesn't say all Eastern European Jews are Khazars. Perhaps Willie would tell us what page that statement is on. This is what the facts really are:

D.M. DUNLOP, HISTORY OF THE JEWISH KHAZARS (Princeton Univ. Press, 1954): "It only remains now to consider the theory that the modern Jews of eastern Europe, or more particularly those in Poland, are the descendants of the medieval Khazars. This can be dealt with very shortly, because there is LITTLE EVIDENCE which bears directly upon it, and it unavoidably retains the character of a mere assumption. ... To speak of the Jews of eastern Europe as descendants of the Khazars...would be to GO MUCH BEYOND WHAT OUR IMPERFECT RECORDS ALLOW." (pp. 261,263. Emphasis has been added to quotations. Dunlop is a source book for Koestler. Koestler believes the theory that east European Jews are descendants of the Khazars.)

Sorry Willie, try again.

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 Sorry, Lewis, but it’s you who must “try again”.  Willie never endorsed a single jew writing as credible.  I know in fact that Willie questioned the authenticity of ALL jewish writings, particularly Arthur Koestler’s claims about en entire country mysteriously converting to the world’s most egregious “religion” (and of course being wiped out of memory within 2 centuries).

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Encyclopedia Americana (1985): Encyclopedia Britannica (15th edition): Academic American Encyclopedia (1985): Encyclopedia Americana (1985): The American People’s encyclopedia for 1954 Academic American Encyclopedia, Deluxe Library Edition, Volume 12, The New Encyclopedia Britannica, Volume 6

He presented these on another newsgroup posting and refuses to quote them “word for word” and keeps inserting his own stuff, just like he does with Scripture. He doesn’t mean to lie, he simply believes what he believes and wants to prove it.

I don’t have these editions but the one’s I have don’t say anything about all Jews being Khazars.

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 Why did Loflin remove Willie’s quote, and include only his references?  Is it that what Willie actually wrote challenges his lamebrain idea that what he “thinks” is somehow “mainstream”?

There’s nothing at all “mainstream” about traitor Loflin’s “thinking”—other than the tactic of using character assassination when he can’t reply with reason, a tactic learned from the jews.

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From Willie:

The Jewish Encyclopedia: The Encyclopedia Judaica (1972): The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia: Jewish Encyclopedia for 1925, The Encyclopedia Judaica, The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia:

“According to Ibn Fadlan, Ibn Dastah, and others, ONLY THE KING AND THE GRANDEES WERE FOLLOWERS OF JUDAISM. The rest of the Khazars were Christians, Mohammedans, and heathens; and THE JEWS WERE IN A GREAT MINORITY.” (Jewish Encyclopedia)

Also see More on Khazars

Me: I have no access to most of these. They know most people won’t find them and they can claim anything they want. I’m sure there’s no statements that most/all Jews are Khazars.

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 How sloppy can Lewis get?  Actually, this is no sloppier than the rest of his scholarship—it’s just that now we know that he himself doesn’t trust his own words.

This reference that Willie cited claims that most Khazars were NOT jews, yet here we have Lewis criticizing Willie because he misunderstood the quote and “thinks” that Willie claimed that most Khazars are jews.

Is there any wonder that Lewis never understood a word Willie spoke or wrote?

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From Willie:

The Outline of History. H. G. Wells, "It is highly probable that the bulk of the Jew's ancestors 'never' lived in Palestine 'at all,' which witnesses the power of historical assertion over fact."

That statement is false. I found a copy of The Outline of History at a used bookstore in Johnson City, Tennessee. Wells doesn't say any of the above in his book. This is what he really said; "Behind the Hungarians and Bulgarians thrust the Khazars, a Turkish people, with whom were mingled a very considerable portion of Jews who had been expelled from Constantinople, who had mixed with them and made many proselytes. To these Jewish Khazars, are to be ascribed the great settlements of Jews in Poland and Russia." (P. 530) That is all he says on Khazars.

The only problem with this is he suggests the Jews were with the Khazars from the beginning, thus because those Jews originated from the Byzantine Empire, thus Israel, Khazars were mostly Jews to begin with. Even if they were the only ancestors of Polish/Russian Jews, they still came from ancient Israel.

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Even if Lewis’ quote of Wells is accurate, and if the actual quote from Willie (which has a 99.99% probability of being word for word, not to mention being entirely consistent with what Wells wrote on page 530) is correct, this presumption that jews “still came from ancient Israel” is completely and totally bogus.  First, Loflin doesn’t know that “Israel” is a people, not a place.  Second, just because the jews were in the Byzantine Empire doesn’t even imply that their ancestors were ever in Judaea.  Third, IF their ancestors ever WERE in Judaea, then in all likelihood they were the same people who Jesus said were “of their father the devil”, and NOT pure Israelites.  Could they have had Israelites as ancestors?  Could they have been descendants of the mixed multitude who the Israelites put away?  Perhaps, but no jew who follows the Talmud can ever claim to have a pure Israelite pedigree, which is what’s required to be “from ancient Israel”.

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This isn’t even close to what Willie Martin and other Neo-Nazis are claiming. On page 659 Wells described (in regards to Spain) as bigoted the “persecution of Protestants, Moslems, and Jews.” And on page 666 he described the Jews of Poland as “great masses of very poor Jews.” Hardly the rich Jew bankers of Nazi myth.

Wells was very critical of anti-Semitism and Hitler. On page 918 he describes Hitler’s “Mein Kampf” as “either absolute lies or bold distortions of fact” and as “a confused, illiterate, schoolboy production.”

H. G. Wells was a great science fiction writer, a socialist, an atheist, and had a biology degree. He died in 1946 but his book was updated to 1945. He has no credentials in theology or history and his “Outline of History” has been proven wrong on several points. He never claimed any such credentials. While popular to the public in the 1920s on, this book has never been considered a history text.

Wells is still one of my favorite sci-fi writers.

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 All of which Willie would agree with, except for the comment about what “other Neo-Nazis are claiming”, and that Willie (and most likely Wells) knew that Hitler was a crypto-jew, that Spain’s evictions of the jews and Moors was way too late for the Spanish to ever reclaim their racial heritage, and that just like the Spanish our acceptance of niggers and jews in our midst will lead to the same problems which caused Spain and 86 other nations before us to finally evict them all.

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From Willie:

Facts Are Facts, By Benjamin Freedman.

This guy claims to be a former Jew who spent millions of dollars to tell the world of evil Jewish plots. Seems like he wasted his money, the only place he's got his story out to is hate-filled Neo-Nazi sites such as Stormfront and from websites of the Arab terrorists who blew up the USS Cole killing 17 Americans. He is no more Jewish than I am, if he existed at all.

Well, there you have it.  If a jew or judeochristian doesn’t like what a jew says, even when one finally admits a few truths about the Talmud, all they need to do is claim that he never existed.

The problem is—his books, papers, writings, and radio shows DO exist, and they weren’t written or taped by Martians.

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The Zionist Connection II, Alfred M. Lilienthal

Appears only on Holocaust denial sites such as the Institute for Historical Review, and others run by their fellow racists, Arab terrorists, and Jew-baiters. Why resort to Holocaust denial? If the mass-murder of 12 million Jews, Gypsies, political prisoners, etc didn’t happen, National Socialism would become more acceptable. Thus the Christian Identity version of National Socialism could become an acceptable alternative to Christianity.

Nothing again for proof outside Christian Identity. If I’m an atheist trying to prove God doesn’t exist and all I can quote is the American Atheists, that is proof of nothing. This is why they rely on each other. I do not accept information from Christian Identity on this subject anymore than I accept atheist’s websites on God or Jesse Jackson on race relations.

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 Do good little judeochristians and jew lovers like Loflin accept the STATISTICS collected by Christians, as well as jews themselves, which show that there were 400,000 MORE jews after WWII than before—and 264 MILLION fewer Christians?

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Collier's Encyclopedia, Volume 14 See Khazars below.

New Catholic Encyclopedia

The Cadillac Modern Encyclopedia, Never heard of it.


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From Willie: The Thirteenth Tribe, by Arthur Koestler

My Response:

Copyright (c) 1996 P. F. Collier, L. P. All rights reserved.


KOESTLER, ARTHUR (1905-1983), Hungarian author of Darkness at Noon (1941), one of the most important books of our time, and in some ways a primer for a generation disillusioned with communism. Of Russian descent, he was born on Sept. 5, 1905, in Budapest. He received a scientific education in Vienna but did not complete it. In 1926 he went to Palestine as a convert to Zionism.


In 1931 another conversion brought him to communism and Russia, and although he soon found Marxist policy and later the ideology itself unacceptable, both marked him for life.

(snip) Koestler turned from political topics in the late 1950's to philosophical analyses of such subjects as art, science, society, and religion. Notable works in this vein include The Sleepwalkers (1959); The Lotus and the Robot (1960), an examination of the contemporary significance of two Eastern religions, Yoga and Zen Buddhism;


and The Thirteenth Tribe (1976). Koestler committed suicide in London on Mar. 4, 1983.

My response: Koestler was a very complex man who changes his outlook over time. Regardless of his writing ability, Koestler has no standing in theology or history and is proof of nothing in regards to the Khazar claims of Christian Identity. Sadly near the end of his life he suffered from advanced Parkenson's which drove him to suicide. The world will miss him.

While I'm sure he refers to the Khazars as a 13th tribe, the fact many Khazar Jews were Jewish refugees from elsewhere doesn't prove modern Jews are not the descendants of the Jews of the Bible. Talk about grasping at straws...

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Aww, why all the sympathy for a stupid (dropped out of college) dead LYING jew, and all the venom for Willie Martin who merely quoted this fool?  Why insist that Koestler did NOT write “The Thirteenth Tribe” when all he needs to do is click the link which proves that he DID write about it—that was the TITLE of his book. 

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For more information on Arthur Koestler click here


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On this "Adam and the Adamite" business:

From Jonathan F. Sullivan (This man is a Christian) we have the real origins of this Adam and the Adamite business:


For instance, early Identity members struggled with traditional Christian anthropology; specifically, they wondered how both blacks and whites could be descendants of the same original human. Drawing upon Victorian science, it seemed clear that, for instance, blacks and whites display different physical characteristics, making the idea of a common ancestor unlikely.

Drawing on the work of Isaac de la Peyr?e, a 17th century Calvinist who advocated the idea of two creations (one for Gentiles, the second for the creation of Adam) and of Dominick M'Causland, a 19th century Englishman who wrote Adam and the Adamite, British-Israelism had developed a historical theology of creation based upon the presupposition that all nonwhites were descendant from a sub-human, pre-Adamic species.

Such a development in theological thought also clears up certain questions that arise from the biblical text. For instance, when faced with the dilemma of where Cain's wife came from, Identity theology asserts that she was of one of the pre-Adamic races (Barkun 1994, 154).

End quote.

My response: So here we have writings of a 19th century Englishman named Dominick M'Causland who couldn't stand the Biblical claim that black people might be his relatives. What does he do? He uses ideas of a 17th century Calvinist mystic he read about and concocted this whole business to undo Biblical truths he didn't like. There is no Biblical basis for two creations. Christian Identity does not follow Scripture, thus they are not Christians. They are in fact a cult.

If it's not written in Scripture, it is opinion at best. The Bible warns us again and again of false prophets and this is a good example of that warning.


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From Willie: Alexander Winchell

Winchell, Alexander, 1824-1891.

Alexander Winchell papers, 1833-1891.

From the University of Michegan (   ) we get this:

Alexander Whinchell was a professor of geology and paleontology at the University of Michigan He also served as director of the Michigan Geological Survey and chancellor of Syracuse University. In his day he was a popular lecturer and writer on scientific topics. His views on race and ethnicity, though rejected today, were very much in fashion at the time. His collection includes correspondence, diaries, field notes, drafts of publications and lectures, poems, reference files, scrapbooks, and visual materials relating to his research and writing in the fields of geology, paleontology, evolutionary biology, and other fields of natural history, and to his career as educator and state geologist.

Me: Note he has no credibility in history, archeology, or theology. He is irrelevant to these subjects. This is like hiring a lawyer to do brain surgery. Winchell's racist writings are found on something called "Christian Defense League" in Arabi, La, another hate group. Christian Identity heavily quotes his stuff yet Christians rejected this guy in general. Why would anyone who claims to be Christian quote evolutionists, communists, or an atheist science fiction writer?


The United Methodists at had this to say in regards to Winchell as it relates to religion vs science:

Some persons tried to respond positively to these challenges. Alexander Winchell, a professor of geology at Methodist-related Vanderbilt University, suggested that Darwin's theory of evolution supported belief in God because it offered clear evidence of design in creation. Another sort of design became evident in 1878 when Winchell discovered his teaching position had been abolished.

Me: Winchell was a prominent geologist and evolutionist who tried to reconcile science/religion, he failed.



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Let's clear up these Khazar and Ashkenaz ravings once and for all. I can find nowhere in any academic circles, any historian, or encyclopedia that makes the claim "all present European Jews descended from the Khazars. Nowhere is this said and the picture is more complex than that.

by Kevin Alan Brook, Copyright (C) 1996
Latest revision: July 2000.

We have the following:

The Khazars' dual-monarchy was a Turkic system under which the kagan was the supreme king and the bek was the civilian army leader. The kagans were part of the Turkic Asena ruling family that had provided kagans for other Central Asian nations in the early medieval period. The Khazar kagans had relations with the rulers of the Byzantines, Abkhazians, Hungarians, and Armenians. To some extent, the Khazarian kings influenced the religion of the Khazar people, but they tolerated those who had different religions than their own, so that even when these kings adopted Judaism they still let Greek Christians, pagan Slavs, and Muslim Iranians live in their domains. In the capital city, the Khazars established a supreme court composed of 7 members, and every religion was represented on this judicial panel (according to one contemporary Arab chronicle, the Khazars were judged according to the Torah, while the other tribes were judged according to other laws).

Ancient communities of Jews existed in the Crimean Peninsula, a fact proven by much archaeological evidence. It is significant that the Crimea came under the control of the Khazars. The Crimean Jewish communities were later supplemented by refugee Jews fleeing the Mazdaq rebellion in Persia, the persecutions of Byzantine emperors Leo III and Romanus I Lecapenus, and for a variety of other reasons. Jews came to Khazaria from modern-day Uzbekistan, Armenia, Hungary, Syria, Turkey, Iraq, and many other places, as documented by al-Masudi, the Schechter Letter, Saadiah Gaon, and other accounts. The Arabic writer Dimashqi wrote that these refugee Jews offered their religion to the Khazar Turks....

Me: Khazaria was filled with refugee Jews from "Uzbekistan, Armenia, Hungary, Syria, Turkey, Iraq, and many other places" and likely outnumbered any converts. The Khazar rulers didn't require conversion and tolerated anyone, even pagans. These refugees certainly included those who ancestors originated in ancient Israel.

More information here:

"Are Russian Jews descended from the Khazars?"


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From the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia ( )we have the following excerpt from "History of the Jews:"

It was during this period that the great Kingdom of the Chazars, which was situated west of the Caspian Sea, and had caused the Persians to tremble, embraced Judaism (c. 745); its rulers remained exclusively Jewish above two centuries and a half. After the caliphs of the Ommiad dynasty, one of whom had a Jew as his mint-master, those of the Abassides, till after Harun al-Rashid (d. 809), do not seem to have seriously disturbed their Jewish subjects; during that time, the Babylonian Talmudic schools were crowded with hearers, and had it not been for their internal dissension, religious (Karaites) and political (contests for the dignity of exilarch), the Jews of Babylon would have been as happy as they were renowned for their...

Note: "rulers remained exclusively Jewish" it says nothing about the whole population converting. This has been true on every dictionary I can actually find.


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Copyright (c) 1996 P. F. Collier, L. P. All rights reserved.


KHAZARS, a nomadic Turkic people who first appeared north of the Caucasus in the early part of the fourth century. In the seventh century the Khazars conquered the kingdom of the Bulgars. They built up a strong and prosperous state, which attained its greatest size in the ninth century, when it extended from the Crimea to the middle Volga and westward to the Dnepr River. The Khazars developed some important commercial cities and carried on trade with Russia and the Byzantine Empire. The ruler of the Khazars, called the qaqaan, was also the religious leader. Tolerant of other religions, the qaqaans welcomed thousands of Jews from Asia Minor and the Byzantine Empire, as well as many Muslims and Christians. These three religious groups vied with one another to convert the Khazars, who followed their traditional religion.

Around the middle of the eighth century the qacentury the qaan and his retinue adopted Islam, but at the turn of the ninth century Qaninth century Qaan Bulan declared Judaism the state religion, changing his name to Obadiah. However, the Khazar state continued religious tolerance. It was finally overthrown in A.D. 965 by a coalition of Russians and Byzantines. The Khazars soon disappeared, either fleeing westward or intermingling with other peoples in southern Russia. The last vestiges of the Khazars in the Crimea were destroyed by the Byzantines and Russians in 1016.


This confirms the other Khazar articles above.

Me: There is no mention anywhere of all or even most of the people of this region converting to Judaism. Even if (not likely) every Jew in Eastern Europe came from Khazaria, they still would likely have originated from the Middle East and Asia Minor. All of these people and all Europeans are mixed anyway, and many Jews were converted or assimilated, so these Christian Identity arguments about the "exclusive Khazar" Jews have no merit and neither does these Adamite revelations.

This excerpt on Polish Jews from Copyright (c) 1996 P. F. Collier, L. P. All rights reserved.

The ultimate fate of the Khazars and the extent of their representation in the Polish Jewish population have been debated by historians to this day. The views on this matter range from the great 19th-century historian Heinrich Graetz's insistence that the Khazar conversion to Judaism had almost no effect on subsequent Jewish history to Arthur Koestler's book The Thirteenth Tribe , in which he argues that a majority of Ashkenazic Jewry is descended from the Khazars. Most modern scholars of Jewish history believe that, over the course of the 14th and 15th centuries, many Khazars were assimilated into Poland's already established Jewish community, which was overwhelmingly of Franco-German origin.

I'll send the complete article to anyone who requests it.


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How about the term "Ashkenaz" as used by Christian Identity?

Colliers again in ASHKENAZIM:

The term Ashkenaz originally denoted a people and/or country in the Armenia-Upper Euphrates area (Genesis 10:3; I Chronicles 1:6; Jeremiah 51:27). Scholars have offered varying suggestions as to how the word became associated with Germany, but in any case Ashkenaz had become established as the accepted Hebrew term for Germany by the 11th century. At that time, the Rhineland was the main center of western Jewish culture north of the Pyrenees. However, the Franco-German Jewry was nearly wiped out by repeated Christian massacres during the epoch of the Crusades and the Black Death (12th-14th centuries).

Some scholars have suggested that the term Ashkenazi was already in use as a self-identification among the Khazar Jewry, because the tenth-century spiritual leader of Oriental Jewry, Saadiah Gaon, had identified the Khazars with the biblical Ashkenaz.

Me: So this term was never applied to Jews at all in the Old Testament and didn't mean Jewish anything until after the 10th century, if then.


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Final word.

Willie Martin is the victim of a cult that feeds on the anger and frustrations of others. Like many Americans he is angered at social and economic changes he doesn't approve of or doesn't understand. They told him whom to blame then supplied the reasons why. I'll bet Mr. Martin has never read "History of the World" or believes in Winchell's evolution. What these people do is hunt for anything to degrade Jews no matter how trivial or where it comes from. He could be a founder of this cult on the basis of the massive amount of material he floods the newsgroups with.

It is up to you the reader to check out the facts for yourself. Do not allow these bigots to hide their hate behind the Bible or allow them to infiltrate your churches. God is the one judge that really counts!

I'm not Jewish but he can put me on Jew Watch hate page if he wants to. On second thought, according to them, I'm Jewish after all.

If anybody has verifiable proof from reputable and disinterested scholars on this, please send it to me. Please don't quote anymore communists, atheists, Nazis, Arab terrorists, or science fiction writers as experts on history or theology.

Judaism and related articles on my website.

Targeting of Jews by Jerry Falwell

The Talmud Exposed and anti-Semitism

Outreach For Judaism

Christianity as a sect of Judaism?

Jews speak out on Y2K hype.

Targeting of Jews by Southern Baptists under fire.

Hitler's Religious Beliefs and Fanaticism


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The following was left on my guestbook and in relation to this article and is typical of the fantasy world of Christian Identity.

Time very limited now, but I began scanning data on Willie Martin as he seems to have the Bible scenario pretty well nailed down... as I independently began to unscramble it in my long efforts as a Geologist (from MIT) who had to conform real data (such as ancient age of Earth and existence of humans before "Adam") with Genesis... I have just written GENESIS INTERPRETED LITERALLY and LOGICALLY.

I'll have to try finding data by Willie on his conformation of science and Bible in Genesis Chap 1-12 (zone of my writing)

I found one minor error in Willie's data about "Ashkenazim" and Gen 10... it clearly says (Gen 9 end) Japheth (a "clean" son on Noah) is to dwell in the"tents"(housing) of Shem/Sem and thus I see this as a unification of these. (Ham's incest with Noah's wife, giving birth to genetically and morally degenerate Canaan is why Canaan is cursed to be our lowest slaves in 9:25-27 --- a line applicable to pseudo-"Semite" people around and within modern "Israel" occupied by "Jews" of two major groups - Ashkenazim and Sephardim (the "real" Jews who rejected JEsus - unlike real Isrealites there who became Christians! - a group damned by Jesus Mat 23:12-33, and themselves! Mat 27:25 - identified by Jesus as having for their "father the devil" John 8:31-44 carrying out the prophecy of such offspring from Gen 3:15 - a lineage I take all the way through via some new archeological data basically overlooked by others!

OK, so, being a true "Ashkenazim" is GOOD - they are true Adamic (thus "son of God Lk 3:38) Noahic (thus of perfect LINEAGE not a time-generation) SONS OF GOD... but not the line given God's further Word, not the line of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob/ISreal -- rather the "children" who will join in Israel (sorry I need by Strong's concordance to get that exact quote, I'm without it in a public library now).

The trouble is that the Khazar/Chazar "Jews" aren't pure Ashkenazim! They were a "Turk" tribe (see 1905 Jewish Enc under Chazars) - more exactly, a mized Turk-Mongol tribe that mixed with EDOMITES who had moved up into Turk lands...

Get WHO IS ESAU EDOM? by Charles Weisman of Burnsville,MN for a study on these. (Of course Arthur Koestler also said most "Jews" were Khazars in THE THRITEENTH TRIBE... and then this famous Jewish author died mysteriously, if I remember correctly!)

EDOMITES ARE HATED BY GOD! Mal 1:1-4. GOD ORDERED THEIR TOTAL EXTERMINATION (Obad 18) and they had destroyed his first temple! (1 Esdras, can't recal exact line, it's a short book)


Jesus ordered ultimately the extermination of "tares" weeds he idenitifed as offspring of the Evil One (Satan) thus surely including "Jews" who killed him and still deny him. See his EXPLAINING of the TARES parable Mat 13:23-43.

So, to identify and hate Edomites and offspring of Satan is clearly a Bible MANDATE!!!


You see, the Bible is like a time-bomb.... written to AVENGE THE KILLING BY "JEWS" OF OUR PERFECT BROTHER AND KING JESUS - the one who will not return meekly, but with an ARMY "host" to judge and make war (REv 19:11-21).... AFTER WE WAKE UP... and get out of the world gov't capital city "Babylon" (to which ALL kings go Rev 17:18 in BABYLON EXPLAINED) - this global capital is now almost fully mature FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY!!! (Never a true global govt before now, just large regional empires and a weak British empire that FAILED TO OBEY GOD'S LAWS NOT ABOLISHED... THUS IT HAD TO COLLAPSE, AND IT DID.)

We are to get out of that "Babylon" and actually "nuke" it - burn it suddenly and totally in a giant splash-flash exhibited by an angel - Rev 17:18-19:3... BEFORE JESUS RETURNS (REv 19:11-21).


I see "9/11" as a wordless warning in the place becoming the global capital - and a city NOT OBEYING BIBLE LAW!

Buford Furrow gave words (WAKE-UP CALL) but was not as effective at killing disobedient people... in fact he only killed one guy, and that one was a mere pre-Adamite mongrel, not an actual Offspring of Satan "Jew."

So, we have the WORD and the DRAMATIC WARNING, but NOBODY IS PUTTING THE TWO TOGETHER... except theat I had broadcast on WWCR shortwave to the world that NYC with the likely coming "Babylon" to be destroyed. SO GET THE HELL OUT OF IT!


Response: Just making up nonsense (self revelation or GENESIS INTERPRETED LITERALLY and LOGICALLY) based on distorting scripture to cover up what is just racism, anti-Semitism, and a general hate of Orthodox Christianity won't fly here. Produce a reputable reference, not just quote your fellow believers. Christianity has been plagued by this apocalypse nonsense to the point of being totally discredited. There is no "Jewish race" in any scientific sense of the word and as a WASP my ancestors never come from the Middle East or Abraham as you claim. Also see A Christian View of Christian Identity Also if you want to talk science and Genesis see Which Creation Story?

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jewn McCain

ASSASSIN of JFK, Patton, many other Whites

killed 264 MILLION Christians in WWII

killed 64 million Christians in Russia

holocaust denier extraordinaire--denying the Armenian holocaust

millions dead in the Middle East

tens of millions of dead Christians

LOST $1.2 TRILLION in Pentagon
spearheaded torture & sodomy of all non-jews
millions dead in Iraq

42 dead, mass murderer Goldman LOVED by jews

serial killer of 13 Christians

the REAL terrorists--not a single one is an Arab

serial killers are all jews

framed Christians for anti-semitism, got caught
left 350 firemen behind to die in WTC

legally insane debarred lawyer CENSORED free speech

mother of all fnazis, certified mentally ill

10,000 Whites DEAD from one jew LIE

moser HATED by jews: he followed the law Jesus--from a "news" person!!

1000 fold the child of perdition


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