SAT Scores for Blacks
Proof Positive that Blacks Have Failed in Education?
Or that Public Education Has Failed Blacks!
This is in reply to the
thread "You Can Count On This: Math
Ability Is Inborn". This reply is posted under this thread because the other
one can't be accessed.
"Author: Bishop, Wayne
Subject: Re: You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn
Thanks for the nice reminder as to why I do not even open his messages. Wayne"
What Wayne is responding to is the following unsubstantiated, and actually
provably false claim by Robert Hansen:
>In 1997, 110,462 black students took the SAT. 43 students scored a
>perfect 800 on the verbal, 24 scored a perfect 800 on the math and 3
>scored a perfect 800 on both.
The College Board keeps very close track of all these statistics, and you will
never see them agree with that statement. Instead you will see the following:
http://professionals.collegeboard.com/profdownload/2010-total-group-profile-report-cbs.pdf
IF scores this low follow a perfect Gaussian Distribution, and IF the relatively
large standard deviation reported by the College Board is accurate, and IF only
Blacks are represented in these test scores and don't include Whites pretending
to be Blacks (in order to qualify for affirmative action admission), THEN, and
only then, would the 429 SAT math score (SD 97) for the 196,961 Blacks who took
the SAT in 2010 indicate that a grand total of 6 Black test takers would have
scored 622:
 |
But IF only 100 of them were Whites pretending to be Blacks, then NO Black
scored higher than 600.
|
|
And IF the standard deviation is actually 80 like it is on other tests rather
than 97, then NO Black scored higher than 600.
|
|
And IF the Gaussian Distribution is more like a spike like it is for Black
salaries, rather than the smooth curve you see for data which is closer to the
median, THEN it's entirely possible that no Black actually scored higher than
500.
|
In statistical terms, if ONE, or TEN, or even one HUNDRED
Blacks, DID score 800, it would be such an obvious outlier that it must be
removed for further research and examination, or in the case of CHEATING
educators like Beverly Hall, PROSECUTION.
A score of 800 is more than two standard deviations higher than where ANY Black
has ever scored since the beginning of the SAT, so, yes, Blacks ARE universally
failing, and it's the very SAT math test you cite which PROVES either that, or
that our approach to educating Blacks is not only a colossal failure, but it
destroyed education opportunities for ALL races.
To be more precise, of the 196,961 Blacks who took the SAT
test in 2010, a maximum of six of them would have scored 622, IF, and only IF,
scores this law fit a perfect Gaussian Distribution (which is actually not very
likely). This is FOUR STANDARD deviations higher than the average SAT math score
for Blacks of 428. Five standard deviations higher than that is 671, where even
American educators can figure out for themselves that NO Black ever scored. A
score of 719 is six standard deviations higher than their average, a score of
767 is seven standard deviations higher, and a score of 816 is EIGHT STANDARD
DEVIATIONS higher than the average SAT math score for Blacks in 2010.
NO member of ANY group ever falls six standard deviations out of their mean for
ANY measurement, ANY time, ANY place on the planet, much less 7 SD, much less 8
SD.
It's absolutely absurd for any educator to believe such bs. And it's CRIMINAL
for Cal Tech to allow such a claim to be associated with their good name.
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A message has been posted to the discussion "math-teach".
Author: Bishop, Wayne
Subject: Re: You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn
Thanks for the nice reminder as to why I do not even open
his messages.
Wayne
At 09:59 AM 8/26/2011, Robert Hansen wrote:
>Jk...
>
>http://www.latticetheory.net/media/pdf/caltech.pdf
>
>In 1997, 110,462 black students took the SAT. 43 students
scored a
>perfect 800 on the verbal, 24 scored a perfect 800 on the
math and 3
>scored a perfect 800 on both.
>
>I don't have the numbers for scoring 600, but they would be
higher
>than these numbers.
>
>Blacks do not universally fail the SAT. In fact some blacks
score
>higher on the SAT than you did. Stop lying.
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Math Forum
-- DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE -- A message has been posted to the
discussion "math-teach". Author: Robert Hansen Subject: Re: You Can
Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn Jk, I don't think you have
110,462 individual SAT scores. If you do have this data
To:
M
jk@israeliteknight.com
Friday, August 26, 2011 11:11 AM
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TO THIS MESSAGE --
A message has been posted to the discussion "math-teach".
Author: Robert Hansen
Subject: Re: You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn
Jk, I don't think you have 110,462 individual SAT scores. If
you do have this data please share it. Averages don't cut
it. You are making universal statements that would require
an examination of individual scores. Regarding TIMSS, I
actually have the individual scores and will post them this
evening. And the blacks that succeed on TIMSS succeed in the
exact same manner as whites, asians and every other possible
grouping.
> "
http://www.latticetheory.net/media/pdf/caltech.pdf
>
> In 1997, 110,462 black students took the SAT. 43
> students scored a perfect 800 on the verbal, 24
> scored a perfect 800 on the math and 3 scored a
> perfect 800 on both.
>
> I don't have the numbers for scoring 600, but they
> would be higher than these numbers.
>
> Blacks do not universally fail the SAT. In fact some
> blacks score higher on the SAT than you did. Stop
> lying."
>
> I have the 1997 SAT math scores for Blacks directly
> from the NCES web site. I guarantee you that it's an
> absolute and verifiable and proven falsehood that ANY
> American black ever scored 800 in anything other than
> a test conducted by Beverly Hall et. al.
>
> Unlike the NAEP, the College Board does not condone
> cheating and lying, and would cause it to be
> published in every newspaper worldwide if they ever
> discovered a Black who even scored as high as 600 in
> SAT math.
>
> Do you know why they didn't? Because it never
> happened. And you can PROVE this for yourself at the
> following url:
>
>
http://professionals.collegeboard.com/data-reports-res
> earch/sat/cb-seniors-2010
>
> Ditto for TIMSS where Blacks all around the world
> follow the exact same pattern as American Blacks in
> math testing:
>
>
http://timss.bc.edu/PDF/t03_download/T03TECHRPT.pdf
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Jacob Israel
"This is a lie. Of course, "assuming the most optimum case of a
normal Guassian Distribution" could mean anything." IF scores this
low follow a perfect Gaussian Distribution, and IF the relatively
large standard deviation reported by the College Board is accurate,
In response to the message from Math Forum,
Fri 10:29 AM
To:
M
watch@mathforum.org
Friday, August 26, 2011 11:09 AM
"This is a lie. Of course, "assuming the
most optimum case of a normal Guassian Distribution"
could mean anything."
IF scores this low follow a perfect Gaussian
Distribution, and IF the relatively large standard
deviation reported by the College Board is accurate, and
IF only Blacks are represented in these test scores and
don't include Whites pretending to be Blacks (in order
to qualify for affirmative action admission), THEN, and
only then, would the 429 SAT math score (SD 97) for the
196,961 Blacks who took the SAT in 2010 indicate that a
grand total of 6 Black test takers would have scored
622.
But IF only 100 of them were Whites pretending to be
Blacks, then NO Black scored higher than 600.
And IF the standard deviation is actually 80 like it is
on other tests rather than 97, then NO Black scored
higher than 600.
And IF the Gaussian Distribution is more like a spike
like it is for Black salaries, rather than the smooth
curve you see for data which is closer to the median,
THEN it's entirely possible that no Black actually
scored higher than 500.
In statistical terms, if ONE, or TEN, or even one
HUNDRED Blacks, DID score 800, it would be such an
obvious outlier that it must be removed for further
research and examination.
> Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 13:29:05 -0400
> From: watch@mathforum.org
> To: jk@israeliteknight.com
> Subject: Re: You Can Count On This: Math Ability
Is Inborn
>
> -- DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE --
>
> A message has been posted to the discussion
"math-teach".
>
> Author: Robert Hansen
> Subject: Re: You Can Count On This: Math Ability
Is Inborn
>
> jk wrote...
>
> "When broken down by state, and assuming the most
optimum case of a normal Gaussian Distribution, no
Black in any state has ever scored higher than 600
in SAT math."
>
> This is a lie. Of course, "assuming the most
optimum case of a normal Guassian Distribution"
could mean anything.
>
>
> To view and reply to the message please see:
>
> http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=7537248
>
> To view the discussion, see:
> http://mathforum.org/kb/forum.jspa?forumID=206
>
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Math Forum
-- DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE -- A message has been posted to the
discussion "math-teach". Author: jk@israeliteknight.com Subject: Re:
You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn
"http://www.latticetheory.net/media/pdf/caltech.pdf In 1997, 110,462
black
To:
M
jk@israeliteknight.com
Friday, August 26, 2011 10:44 AM
-- DO NOT REPLY
TO THIS MESSAGE --
A message has been posted to the discussion "math-teach".
Author: jk@israeliteknight.com
Subject: Re: You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn
"http://www.latticetheory.net/media/pdf/caltech.pdf
In 1997, 110,462 black students took the SAT. 43 students
scored a perfect 800 on the verbal, 24 scored a perfect 800
on the math and 3 scored a perfect 800 on both.
I don't have the numbers for scoring 600, but they would be
higher than these numbers.
Blacks do not universally fail the SAT. In fact some blacks
score higher on the SAT than you did. Stop lying."
I have the 1997 SAT math scores for Blacks directly from the
NCES web site. I guarantee you that it's an absolute and
verifiable and proven falsehood that ANY American black ever
scored 800 in anything other than a test conducted by
Beverly Hall et. al.
Unlike the NAEP, the College Board does not condone cheating
and lying, and would cause it to be published in every
newspaper worldwide if they ever discovered a Black who even
scored as high as 600 in SAT math.
Do you know why they didn't? Because it never happened. And
you can PROVE this for yourself at the following url:
http://professionals.collegeboard.com/data-reports-research/sat/cb-seniors-2010
Ditto for TIMSS where Blacks all around the world follow the
exact same pattern as American Blacks in math testing:
http://timss.bc.edu/PDF/t03_download/T03TECHRPT.pdf
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Math Forum
-- DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE -- A message has been posted to the
discussion "math-teach". Author: jk@israeliteknight.com Subject: Re:
You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn There's not a single
state where Blacks show a different pattern in SAT math.
To:
M
jk@israeliteknight.com
Friday, August 26, 2011 10:44 AM
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A message has been posted to the discussion "math-teach".
Author: jk@israeliteknight.com
Subject: Re: You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn
There's not a single state where Blacks show a different
pattern in SAT math. This is just a select few states to
keep the graph simple.
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Math Forum
-- DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE -- A message has been posted to the
discussion "math-teach". Author: jk@israeliteknight.com Subject: Re:
You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn
"http://www.latticetheory.net/media/pdf/caltech.pdf In 1997, 110,462
black
To:
M
jk@israeliteknight.com
Friday, August 26, 2011 10:35 AM
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TO THIS MESSAGE --
A message has been posted to the discussion "math-teach".
Author: jk@israeliteknight.com
Subject: Re: You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn
"http://www.latticetheory.net/media/pdf/caltech.pdf
In 1997, 110,462 black students took the SAT. 43 students
scored a perfect 800 on the verbal, 24 scored a perfect 800
on the math and 3 scored a perfect 800 on both.
I don't have the numbers for scoring 600, but they would be
higher than these numbers.
Blacks do not universally fail the SAT. In fact some blacks
score higher on the SAT than you did. Stop lying."
I have the 1997 SAT math scores for Blacks directly from the
NCES web site. I guarantee you that it's an absolute and
verifiable and proven falsehood that ANY American black ever
scored 800 in anything other than a test conducted by
Beverly Hall et. al.
Unlike the NAEP, the College Board does not condone cheating
and lying, and would cause it to be published in every
newspaper worldwide if they ever discovered a Black who even
scored as high as 600 in SAT math.
Do you know why they didn't? Because it never happened. And
you can PROVE this for yourself at the following url:
http://professionals.collegeboard.com/data-reports-research/sat/cb-seniors-2010
Ditto for TIMSS where Blacks all around the world follow the
exact same pattern as American Blacks in math testing:
http://timss.bc.edu/PDF/t03_download/T03TECHRPT.pdf
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Math Forum
-- DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE -- A message has been posted to the
discussion "math-teach". Author: Robert Hansen Subject: Re: You Can
Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn Jk...
http://www.latticetheory.net/media/pdf/caltech.pdf In 1997, 110,462
black students
To:
M
jk@israeliteknight.com
Friday, August 26, 2011 10:29 AM
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TO THIS MESSAGE --
A message has been posted to the discussion "math-teach".
Author: Robert Hansen
Subject: Re: You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn
Jk...
http://www.latticetheory.net/media/pdf/caltech.pdf
In 1997, 110,462 black students took the SAT. 43 students
scored a perfect 800 on the verbal, 24 scored a perfect 800
on the math and 3 scored a perfect 800 on both.
I don't have the numbers for scoring 600, but they would be
higher than these numbers.
Blacks do not universally fail the SAT. In fact some blacks
score higher on the SAT than you did. Stop lying.
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Math Forum
-- DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE -- A message has been posted to the
discussion "math-teach". Author: Robert Hansen Subject: Re: You Can
Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn jk wrote... "When broken down
by state, and assuming the most optimum case of a normal
To:
M
jk@israeliteknight.com
Friday, August 26, 2011 10:29 AM
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TO THIS MESSAGE --
A message has been posted to the discussion "math-teach".
Author: Robert Hansen
Subject: Re: You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn
jk wrote...
"When broken down by state, and assuming the most optimum
case of a normal Gaussian Distribution, no Black in any
state has ever scored higher than 600 in SAT math."
This is a lie. Of course, "assuming the most optimum case of
a normal Guassian Distribution" could mean anything.
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Math Forum
-- DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE -- A message has been posted to the
discussion "math-teach". Author: jk@israeliteknight.com Subject: Re:
You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn There's not a single
state where Blacks show a different pattern in SAT math.
To:
M
jk@israeliteknight.com
Friday, August 26, 2011 10:21 AM
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TO THIS MESSAGE --
A message has been posted to the discussion "math-teach".
Author: jk@israeliteknight.com
Subject: Re: You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn
There's not a single state where Blacks show a different
pattern in SAT math. This is just a select few states to
keep the graph simple.
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Math Forum
-- DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE -- A message has been posted to the
discussion "math-teach". Author: Robert Hansen Subject: Re: You Can
Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn jk wrote... "When broken down
by state, and assuming the most optimum case of a normal
To:
M
jk@israeliteknight.com
Friday, August 26, 2011 10:09 AM
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TO THIS MESSAGE --
A message has been posted to the discussion "math-teach".
Author: Robert Hansen
Subject: Re: You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn
jk wrote...
"When broken down by state, and assuming the most optimum
case of a normal Gaussian Distribution, no Black in any
state has ever scored higher than 600 in SAT math."
This is a lie. Of course, "assuming the most optimum case of
a normal Guassian Distribution" could mean anything.
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Math Forum
-- DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE -- A message has been posted to the
discussion "math-teach". Author: Robert Hansen Subject: Re: You Can
Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn Jk...
http://www.latticetheory.net/media/pdf/caltech.pdf In 1997, 110,462
black students
To:
M
jk@israeliteknight.com
Friday, August 26, 2011 10:09 AM
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TO THIS MESSAGE --
A message has been posted to the discussion "math-teach".
Author: Robert Hansen
Subject: Re: You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn
Jk...
http://www.latticetheory.net/media/pdf/caltech.pdf
In 1997, 110,462 black students took the SAT. 43 students
scored a perfect 800 on the verbal, 24 scored a perfect 800
on the math and 3 scored a perfect 800 on both.
I don't have the numbers for scoring 600, but they would be
higher than these numbers.
Blacks do not universally fail the SAT. In fact some blacks
score higher on the SAT than you did. Stop lying.
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discussion "math-teach". Author: jk@israeliteknight.com Subject: Re:
You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn "There are people of
all colors that score 50 points lower than what guessing
To:
M
jk@israeliteknight.com
Friday, August 26, 2011 9:14 AM
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A message has been posted to the discussion "math-teach".
Author: jk@israeliteknight.com
Subject: Re: You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn
"There are people of all colors that score 50 points lower
than what guessing would produce on the SAT. And there are
blacks that have scored higher than you on the SAT."
This statement is a provable, utter, falsehood, which tells
us nothing about Blacks and everything about the inability
of our educators to come to grips with some KEY facts.
The College Board enables us to do an important, critical
detailed analysis (by state) of the scores of Blacks which
the mediots appear to have missed. When broken down by
state, and assuming the most optimum case of a normal
Gaussian Distribution, no Black in any state has ever scored
higher than 600 in SAT math. For example, the 20,442 Blacks
in Texas who took the SAT scored only 437 with a standard
deviation of 93. Of those, 99 scored higher than 570, and
none scored higher than 600. It's interesting that the
states where you would expect Blacks to perform the best are
where they performed the worst, and where you would expect
them to perform worse than average is where they performed
the best. For example, Blacks in Mississippi scored 453,
which is 13 points higher than Blacks in Massachusetts (at
440) and 37 points higher than Blacks in New York (at 416).
But even amongst these 206 higher scoring Blacks in
Mississippi, only 6 of them scored higher than 550, and none
scored higher than 570. And of the 23,035 Blacks in New
York, 89 scored higher than 550, and none scored higher than
590. Of the 4,002 Blacks in Massachusetts, 48 scored higher
than 550, 2 scored higher than 580, and none scored higher
than 590. Of the 14,476 Blacks in California, 19 scored
higher than 570 and none scored higher than 600. The 12,504
Blacks in NOrth Carolina scored 431, which is 15 points
higher than Blacks in New York, but only 14 scored higher
than 560 and none scored higher than 590.
http://professionals.collegeboard.com/data-reports-research/sat/cb-seniors-2010
This exact same pattern is repeated across the country, from
state to state, until we get to the most coddled Blacks on
the planet (where the cost to educate one child now exceeds
$25,000, four times as much as in much higher states and
countries), Washington, DC. Not only are their SAT scores
the lowest for American Blacks (402 in SAT math), but so are
their NAEP scores, and a crosslink study with IAEP scores
shows they score even lower than Mozambique. After this
unimaginable expenditure of time, dollars, and resources, of
the 937 coddled Blacks in our nation's capitol who took the
SAT test (the top of the lot), only 22 scored higher than
500 and one scored higher than 550.
The average score for Whites in many states (like North
Dakota and Iowa) exceeds 610 to 612, which means that less
than 2% of them score as low as the utterly HIGHEST scoring
Blacks, in ANY state, and in ANY country.
If there's any place and any time in the world where this
should have worked, this is the time and place. But for
DECADES now,there has been ZERO improvement in their scores,
and every attempt to prove otherwise has now been proven to
have been based on LIES and CHEATING.
OR--might it be based on the abject inability of our current
crop of educators to even grasp the problem, much less
discuss it properly, much less make our education system
competitive again?
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-- DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE -- A message has been posted to the
discussion "math-teach". Author: jk@israeliteknight.com Subject: Re:
You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn "There are people of
all colors that score 50 points lower than what guessing
To:
M
jk@israeliteknight.com
Friday, August 26, 2011 9:00 AM
-- DO NOT REPLY
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A message has been posted to the discussion "math-teach".
Author: jk@israeliteknight.com
Subject: Re: You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn
"There are people of all colors that score 50 points lower
than what guessing would produce on the SAT. And there are
blacks that have scored higher than you on the SAT."
This statement is a provable, utter, falsehood, which tells
us nothing about Blacks and everything about the inability
of our educators to come to grips with some KEY facts.
The College Board enables us to do an important, critical
detailed analysis (by state) of the scores of Blacks which
the mediots appear to have missed. When broken down by
state, and assuming the most optimum case of a normal
Gaussian Distribution, no Black in any state has ever scored
higher than 600 in SAT math. For example, the 20,442 Blacks
in Texas who took the SAT scored only 437 with a standard
deviation of 93. Of those, 99 scored higher than 570, and
none scored higher than 600. It's interesting that the
states where you would expect Blacks to perform the best are
where they performed the worst, and where you would expect
them to perform worse than average is where they performed
the best. For example, Blacks in Mississippi scored 453,
which is 13 points higher than Blacks in Massachusetts (at
440) and 37 points higher than Blacks in New York (at 416).
But even amongst these 206 higher scoring Blacks in
Mississippi, only 6 of them scored higher than 550, and none
scored higher than 570. And of the 23,035 Blacks in New
York, 89 scored higher than 550, and none scored higher than
590. Of the 4,002 Blacks in Massachusetts, 48 scored higher
than 550, 2 scored higher than 580, and none scored higher
than 590. Of the 14,476 Blacks in California, 19 scored
higher than 570 and none scored higher than 600. The 12,504
Blacks in NOrth Carolina scored 431, which is 15 points
higher than Blacks in New York, but only 14 scored higher
than 560 and none scored higher than 590.
http://professionals.collegeboard.com/data-reports-research/sat/cb-seniors-2010
This exact same pattern is repeated across the country, from
state to state, until we get to the most coddled Blacks on
the planet (where the cost to educate one child now exceeds
$25,000, four times as much as in much higher states and
countries), Washington, DC. Not only are their SAT scores
the lowest for American Blacks (402 in SAT math), but so are
their NAEP scores, and a crosslink study with IAEP scores
shows they score even lower than Mozambique. After this
unimaginable expenditure of time, dollars, and resources, of
the 937 coddled Blacks in our nation's capitol who took the
SAT test (the top of the lot), only 22 scored higher than
500 and one scored higher than 550.
The average score for Whites in many states (like North
Dakota and Iowa) exceeds 610 to 612, which means that less
than 2% of them score as low as the utterly HIGHEST scoring
Blacks, in ANY state, and in ANY country.
If there's any place and any time in the world where this
should have worked, this is the time and place. But for
DECADES now,there has been ZERO improvement in their scores,
and every attempt to prove otherwise has now been proven to
have been based on LIES and CHEATING.
OR--might it be based on the abject inability of our current
crop of educators to even grasp the problem, much less
discuss it properly, much less make our education system
competitive again?
To view and reply to the message please see:
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-- DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE -- A message has been posted to the
discussion "math-teach". Author: jk@israeliteknight.com Subject: Re:
You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn In SAT math in 2008,
Whites in Massachusetts scored 537 and Blacks scored
To:
M
jk@israeliteknight.com
Friday, August 26, 2011 6:29 AM
-- DO NOT REPLY
TO THIS MESSAGE --
A message has been posted to the discussion "math-teach".
Author: jk@israeliteknight.com
Subject: Re: You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn
In SAT math in 2008, Whites in Massachusetts scored 537 and
Blacks scored 431. But by 2010, Whites scored 539 and Blacks
scored 434.
Whites in Iowa scored 612 and Blacks scored 502, but by 2010
Whites scored 638 and Blacks scored 468.
so in just two years, the SAT math point gap between Whites
in Iowa and Whites in Massachusetts increased from 75 points
to 99 points, while the gap for Blacks decreased from 71 to
34.
In just two years, the TOTAL gap for all three portions of
the SAT between Whites in Iowa and Whites in Massachusetts
increased from 219 to 251
Math:
2008
Whites Iowa 612
Whites Massachusetts 537
Gap 75
2010
Whites Iowa 638
Whites Massachusetts 539
Gap 99
Critical reading:
2008
Whites Iowa 613
Whites Massachusetts 529
Gap 84
2010
Whites Iowa 618
Whites Massachusetts 529
Gap 89
Writing:
2008
Whites Iowa 588
Whites Massachusetts 528
Gap 60 points
2010
Whites Iowa 589
Whites Massachusetts 526
Gap 63
At a time when Massachusetts is proclaiming great strides in
education (and claiming to have increased their performance
in NAEP math from 37th place out of 50 states 2 decades ago
to close to the top today), quiet, unassuming little Iowa
(as well as a number of other states) managed to increase an
already huge 219 SAT point lead over Massachusetts to a
whopping 251 point lead, a gap which in each subject area is
a standard deviation.
This is consistent with Governor Perdue's inference that
NAEP scores have also been tampered with. And raises serious
questions about how honest they've been with their claims
(conflicting claims) that "the gap" decreased.
We gave Beverly Hall the world, and she chose a life of
crime. The public consensus is that she belongs in prison,
not a position of power, and especially not in our once
enviable school system, or anywhere close to our children.
Michelle Rhee could quickly become a member of this prison
gang. why did they choose a life of crime rather than
honoring their oaths and contracts? It's not sufficient that
they merely go down in infamy as confirmed liars. It's not
sufficient that any educator who sees the very low SAT
verbal and SAT math and SAT critical reading scores of
American Blacks and proclaims "If blacks were universally
failing on the SAT ... but they are not" be held in the same
low esteem.
In every which way it can be measured, Blacks ARE failing in
our education system, and scoring lower than if they'd just
guessed on SAT tests (which they DO, in EVERY state) is just
ONE indicator. How much influence do you think our educators
have on American Black male youths when, according to the
FBI, they are FOUR HUNDRED TIMES as likely to be murdered,
and THREE HUNDRED TIMES MORE lilely to be murderers, than
Black male youths in Mozambique, or Botswana, or Ghana? Have
our educators saved even one life, or is their attempt to
force unwilling Blacks into a White education mold precisely
what causes the problem?
To view and reply to the message please see:
http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=7537171
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-- DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE -- A message has been posted to the
discussion "math-teach". Author: jk@israeliteknight.com Subject: Re:
You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn In SAT math in 2008,
Whites in Massachusetts scored 537 and Blacks scored
To:
M
jk@israeliteknight.com
Friday, August 26, 2011 6:13 AM
-- DO NOT REPLY
TO THIS MESSAGE --
A message has been posted to the discussion "math-teach".
Author: jk@israeliteknight.com
Subject: Re: You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn
In SAT math in 2008, Whites in Massachusetts scored 537 and
Blacks scored 431. But by 2010, Whites scored 539 and Blacks
scored 434.
Whites in Iowa scored 612 and Blacks scored 502, but by 2010
Whites scored 638 and Blacks scored 468.
so in just two years, the SAT math point gap between Whites
in Iowa and Whites in Massachusetts increased from 75 points
to 99 points, while the gap for Blacks decreased from 71 to
34.
In just two years, the TOTAL gap for all three portions of
the SAT between Whites in Iowa and Whites in Massachusetts
increased from 219 to 251
Math:
2008
Whites Iowa 612
Whites Massachusetts 537
Gap 75
2010
Whites Iowa 638
Whites Massachusetts 539
Gap 99
Critical reading:
2008
Whites Iowa 613
Whites Massachusetts 529
Gap 84
2010
Whites Iowa 618
Whites Massachusetts 529
Gap 89
Writing:
2008
Whites Iowa 588
Whites Massachusetts 528
Gap 60 points
2010
Whites Iowa 589
Whites Massachusetts 526
Gap 63
At a time when Massachusetts is proclaiming great strides in
education (and claiming to have increased their performance
in NAEP math from 37th place out of 50 states 2 decades ago
to close to the top today), quiet, unassuming little Iowa
(as well as a number of other states) managed to increase an
already huge 219 SAT point lead over Massachusetts to a
whopping 251 point lead, a gap which in each subject area is
a standard deviation.
This is consistent with Governor Perdue's inference that
NAEP scores have also been tampered with. And raises serious
questions about how honest they've been with their claims
(conflicting claims) that "the gap" decreased.
We gave Beverly Hall the world, and she chose a life of
crime. The public consensus is that she belongs in prison,
not a position of power, and especially not in our once
enviable school system, or anywhere close to our children.
Michelle Rhee could quickly become a member of this prison
gang. why did they choose a life of crime rather than
honoring their oaths and contracts? It's not sufficient that
they merely go down in infamy as confirmed liars. It's not
sufficient that any educator who sees the very low SAT
verbal and SAT math and SAT critical reading scores of
American Blacks and proclaims "If blacks were universally
failing on the SAT ... but they are not" be held in the same
low esteem.
In every which way it can be measured, Blacks ARE failing in
our education system, and scoring lower than if they'd just
guessed on SAT tests (which they DO, in EVERY state) is just
ONE indicator. How much influence do you think our educators
have on American Black male youths when, according to the
FBI, they are FOUR HUNDRED TIMES as likely to be murdered,
and THREE HUNDRED TIMES MORE lilely to be murderers, than
Black male youths in Mozambique, or Botswana, or Ghana? Have
our educators saved even one life, or is their attempt to
force unwilling Blacks into a White education mold precisely
what causes the problem?
To view and reply to the message please see:
http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=7537170
To view the discussion, see:
http://mathforum.org/kb/forum.jspa?forumID=206
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
The Math Forum respects your online time and Internet
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discussions
with your israeliteknight username and click the "delete"
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-- DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE -- A message has been posted to the
discussion "math-teach". Author: jk@israeliteknight.com Subject: Re:
You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn Are ALL of this
nation's educators CHEATERS and LIARS? This article suggests
To:
M
jk@israeliteknight.com
Thursday, August 25, 2011 5:44 PM
-- DO NOT REPLY
TO THIS MESSAGE --
A message has been posted to the discussion "math-teach".
Author: jk@israeliteknight.com
Subject: Re: You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn
Are ALL of this nation's educators CHEATERS and LIARS? This
article suggests that even Michelle Rhee, who at least was
brave enough to take on the unions, also LIED about the
obvious cheating scandal that all her awards were based on,
OR was way toooo STUPID to see the obvious:
http://thewashingtonteacher.blogspot.com/
Why is Michelle Rhee Silent on the DC Cheating Scandal?
Disclaimer: I am not writing in my official capacity as WTU
General Vice President, but rather as an announced candidate
in the 2013 WTU elections and WTU member.
Candi Peterson
Michelle Rhee is refusing to talk to USA Today reporters
about the testing cheating scandal that occurred on her
watch while she was DC Public Schools Chancellor (2007-10).
Hmmmm inquiring minds want to know why Ms. Rhee, with her
infamous gift of gab won't open up on this topic ? The
article below, which was featured in the NY Times newspaper
on August 21 is a 'must read' on the latest controversy
surrounding Rhee and USA Today.
By the way, someone sent me the featured photo of Rhee with
students with tape over their mouths which is symbolic of
the irony of this story.
August 21, 2011
Eager for Spotlight, but Not if It Is on a Testing Scandal
By MICHAEL WINERIP
WASHINGTON — Why won’t Michelle Rhee talk to USA Today?
"Ms. Rhee, the chancellor of the Washington public schools
from 2007 to 2010, is the national symbol of the
data-driven, take-no-prisoners education reform movement.
It’s hard to find a media outlet, big or small, that she
hasn’t talked to. She’s been interviewed by Katie Couric,
Tom Brokaw and Oprah Winfrey. She’s been featured on a Time
magazine cover holding a broom (to sweep away bad teachers).
She was one of the stars of the documentary “Waiting for
Superman.”
These days, as director of an advocacy group she founded,
StudentsFirst, she crisscrosses the country pushing her
education politics: she’s for vouchers and charter schools,
against tenure, for teachers, but against their unions.
Always, she preens for the cameras. Early in her
chancellorship, she was trailed for a story by the education
correspondent of “PBS NewsHour,” John Merrow.
At one point, Ms. Rhee asked if his crew wanted to watch her
fire a principal. “We were totally stunned,” Mr. Merrow
said.
She let them set up the camera behind the principal and
videotape the entire firing. “The principal seemed dazed,”
said Mr. Merrow. “I’ve been reporting 35 years and never
seen anything like it.”
And yet, as voracious as she is for the media spotlight, Ms.
Rhee will not talk to USA Today.
At the end of March, three of the paper’s reporters —
Marisol Bello, Jack Gillum and Greg Toppo — broke a story
about the high rate of erasures and suspiciously high
test-score gains at 41 Washington schools while Ms. Rhee was
chancellor.
At some schools, they found the odds that so many answers
had been changed from wrong to right randomly were 1 in 100
billion. In a fourth-grade class at Stanton Elementary, 97
percent of the erasures were from wrong to right.
Districtwide, the average number of erasures for seventh
graders was fewer than one per child, but for a
seventh-grade class at Noyes Elementary, it was 12.7 per
student. At Noyes Elementary in 2008, 84 percent of fourth
graders were proficient in math, up from 22 percent in 2007.
Ms. Rhee’s reputation has rested on her schools’ test
scores. Suddenly, a USA Today headline was asking, “were the
gains real?” In this era of high-pressure testing,
Washington has become another in a growing list of cheating
scandals that has included Atlanta, Indiana, New Jersey,
Pennsylvania and Texas.
It took the USA Today reporters a year to finish their
three-part series. So many people were afraid to speak that
Ms. Bello had to interview dozens to find one willing to be
quoted. She knocked on teachers’ doors at 9:30 at night and
hunted parents at PTA meetings. She met people in coffee
shops where they would not be recognized, and never called
or e-mailed sources at their schools.
Hari Sevugan, a spokesman for Ms. Rhee, said the reporters
were “provided unprecedented time and access to report out
their story,” including many meetings with senior staff
members and the chief of data accountability. By last fall,
Mr. Sevugan said, district officials’ patience was wearing
thin. The deputy press secretary, Satiya Simmons, complained
in an e-mail to a colleague, “Jack Gillum isn’t going away
quietly, Uggh.”
“Just stop answering his e-mails,” advised Anita Dunn, a
consultant who had been the communications director for
President Obama.
The reporters made a dozen attempts to interview Ms. Rhee,
directly and through her public relations representatives.
Ms. Bello called Ms. Rhee’s cellphone daily, and finally got
her on a Sunday.
“She said she wasn’t going to talk with us,” Ms. Bello
recalled. “Her understanding was we were writing about”
district schools “and she is no longer chancellor.”
On March 29, the day after the story came out, Ms. Rhee
appeared on the PBS program “Tavis Smiley” and attacked USA
Today.
“Are you suggesting this story is much ado about nothing,
that this is lacking integrity, this story in USA Today?”
Mr. Smiley asked.
“Absolutely,” Ms. Rhee said. “It absolutely lacks
credibility.”
Mr. Smiley asked if she was concerned that she had put too
much pressure on teachers and principals to raise scores.
“We want educators to feel that pressure,” she answered.
Ms. Rhee emphasized that the district had hired a top
security company, Caveon, to investigate in 2009, and was
given a clean bill of health. The district released a
statement from John Fremer, Caveon’s owner, saying, “The
company did not find evidence of cheating at any of the
schools.”
However, in subsequent interviews with USA Today and this
reporter, Mr. Fremer made it clear that the scope of his
inquiry was limited, and that the district had not requested
that he do more. Indeed, Caveon’s report, posted on USA
Today’s Web site, was full of sentences like, “Redacted was
interviewed at redacted.”
Teachers described security as “excellent” and “very
vigilant,” and investigators, for the most part, took their
comments at face value.
It did not take Ms. Rhee long to realize she had
miscalculated. Three days later, she told Bloomberg Radio
she was “100 percent supportive” of a broader inquiry.
Still, she would not talk to USA Today. Mr. Sevugan gave no
explanation, but pointed out that she had spoken with
several other news outlets.
The reporters did not give up. On April 26, Emily Lenzner, a
spokeswoman, wrote Mr. Gillum, “Michelle is willing to do an
interview, but we’d like to do this in person.” She asked if
they could hold their story, and arranged for a meeting on
May 3 at the StudentsFirst office in Washington.
On May 2, another Rhee spokeswoman e-mailed to say the
reporters were too interested in cheating and not enough in
StudentsFirst. She said they could submit a list of
questions.
There were 21 questions; Ms. Rhee did not answer 10 of the
11 about cheating.
Mr. Gillum, who recently took a job at The Associated Press,
said he was surprised by how unresponsive Ms. Rhee has been.
“She talks about how important data is, and our story is
data driven,” he said.
So that people could make their own judgments, Linda
Mathews, the project editor, posted the relevant public
documents on the USA Today Web site.
Shortly after the follow-up story appeared, the district’s
inspector general began what was supposed to be an inquiry,
but in July The Washington Post reported that just one
investigator had been assigned. “Basically it was one guy in
a room who made 10 phone calls,” Mr. Toppo said.
Officials with the federal Department of Education have
indicated that they are assisting with the investigation.
In Washington, two investigators spent five days at eight
schools. In Atlanta, the state deployed 60 investigators who
worked for 10 months at 56 schools. They produced a report
that named all 178 people found cheating, including 82 who
confessed. There was not a single case of “redacted and
redacted doctoring redacted grade answer sheets at
redacted.”
People in Atlanta could go to prison. Last week, a grand
jury issued subpoenas seeking the names of school employees
who had received bonuses for test scores. The Atlanta
Journal-Constitution reported that there were subpoenas for
“signed copies” of “any and all oaths of office” taken by
Beverly Hall, the former superintendent.
The three reporters still hope to interview Ms. Rhee.
“Absolutely,” said Mr. Toppo.
Which brings things full circle: Why won’t Ms. Rhee talk to
USA Today? "
To view and reply to the message please see:
http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=7537091
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http://mathforum.org/kb/forum.jspa?forumID=206
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The Math Forum respects your online time and Internet
privacy. To view
or cancel your discussion watches, please log back in to the
discussions
with your israeliteknight username and click the "delete"
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-- DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE -- A message has been posted to the
discussion "math-teach". Author: jk@israeliteknight.com Subject: Re:
You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn Are ALL of this
nation's educators CHEATERS and LIARS? This article suggests
To:
M
jk@israeliteknight.com
Thursday, August 25, 2011 5:27 PM
-- DO NOT REPLY
TO THIS MESSAGE --
A message has been posted to the discussion "math-teach".
Author: jk@israeliteknight.com
Subject: Re: You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn
Are ALL of this nation's educators CHEATERS and LIARS? This
article suggests that even Michelle Rhee, who at least was
brave enough to take on the unions, also LIED about the
obvious cheating scandal that all her awards were based on,
OR was way toooo STUPID to see the obvious:
http://thewashingtonteacher.blogspot.com/
Why is Michelle Rhee Silent on the DC Cheating Scandal?
Disclaimer: I am not writing in my official capacity as WTU
General Vice President, but rather as an announced candidate
in the 2013 WTU elections and WTU member.
Candi Peterson
Michelle Rhee is refusing to talk to USA Today reporters
about the testing cheating scandal that occurred on her
watch while she was DC Public Schools Chancellor (2007-10).
Hmmmm inquiring minds want to know why Ms. Rhee, with her
infamous gift of gab won't open up on this topic ? The
article below, which was featured in the NY Times newspaper
on August 21 is a 'must read' on the latest controversy
surrounding Rhee and USA Today.
By the way, someone sent me the featured photo of Rhee with
students with tape over their mouths which is symbolic of
the irony of this story.
August 21, 2011
Eager for Spotlight, but Not if It Is on a Testing Scandal
By MICHAEL WINERIP
WASHINGTON — Why won’t Michelle Rhee talk to USA Today?
"Ms. Rhee, the chancellor of the Washington public schools
from 2007 to 2010, is the national symbol of the
data-driven, take-no-prisoners education reform movement.
It’s hard to find a media outlet, big or small, that she
hasn’t talked to. She’s been interviewed by Katie Couric,
Tom Brokaw and Oprah Winfrey. She’s been featured on a Time
magazine cover holding a broom (to sweep away bad teachers).
She was one of the stars of the documentary “Waiting for
Superman.”
These days, as director of an advocacy group she founded,
StudentsFirst, she crisscrosses the country pushing her
education politics: she’s for vouchers and charter schools,
against tenure, for teachers, but against their unions.
Always, she preens for the cameras. Early in her
chancellorship, she was trailed for a story by the education
correspondent of “PBS NewsHour,” John Merrow.
At one point, Ms. Rhee asked if his crew wanted to watch her
fire a principal. “We were totally stunned,” Mr. Merrow
said.
She let them set up the camera behind the principal and
videotape the entire firing. “The principal seemed dazed,”
said Mr. Merrow. “I’ve been reporting 35 years and never
seen anything like it.”
And yet, as voracious as she is for the media spotlight, Ms.
Rhee will not talk to USA Today.
At the end of March, three of the paper’s reporters —
Marisol Bello, Jack Gillum and Greg Toppo — broke a story
about the high rate of erasures and suspiciously high
test-score gains at 41 Washington schools while Ms. Rhee was
chancellor.
At some schools, they found the odds that so many answers
had been changed from wrong to right randomly were 1 in 100
billion. In a fourth-grade class at Stanton Elementary, 97
percent of the erasures were from wrong to right.
Districtwide, the average number of erasures for seventh
graders was fewer than one per child, but for a
seventh-grade class at Noyes Elementary, it was 12.7 per
student. At Noyes Elementary in 2008, 84 percent of fourth
graders were proficient in math, up from 22 percent in 2007.
Ms. Rhee’s reputation has rested on her schools’ test
scores. Suddenly, a USA Today headline was asking, “were the
gains real?” In this era of high-pressure testing,
Washington has become another in a growing list of cheating
scandals that has included Atlanta, Indiana, New Jersey,
Pennsylvania and Texas.
It took the USA Today reporters a year to finish their
three-part series. So many people were afraid to speak that
Ms. Bello had to interview dozens to find one willing to be
quoted. She knocked on teachers’ doors at 9:30 at night and
hunted parents at PTA meetings. She met people in coffee
shops where they would not be recognized, and never called
or e-mailed sources at their schools.
Hari Sevugan, a spokesman for Ms. Rhee, said the reporters
were “provided unprecedented time and access to report out
their story,” including many meetings with senior staff
members and the chief of data accountability. By last fall,
Mr. Sevugan said, district officials’ patience was wearing
thin. The deputy press secretary, Satiya Simmons, complained
in an e-mail to a colleague, “Jack Gillum isn’t going away
quietly, Uggh.”
“Just stop answering his e-mails,” advised Anita Dunn, a
consultant who had been the communications director for
President Obama.
The reporters made a dozen attempts to interview Ms. Rhee,
directly and through her public relations representatives.
Ms. Bello called Ms. Rhee’s cellphone daily, and finally got
her on a Sunday.
“She said she wasn’t going to talk with us,” Ms. Bello
recalled. “Her understanding was we were writing about”
district schools “and she is no longer chancellor.”
On March 29, the day after the story came out, Ms. Rhee
appeared on the PBS program “Tavis Smiley” and attacked USA
Today.
“Are you suggesting this story is much ado about nothing,
that this is lacking integrity, this story in USA Today?”
Mr. Smiley asked.
“Absolutely,” Ms. Rhee said. “It absolutely lacks
credibility.”
Mr. Smiley asked if she was concerned that she had put too
much pressure on teachers and principals to raise scores.
“We want educators to feel that pressure,” she answered.
Ms. Rhee emphasized that the district had hired a top
security company, Caveon, to investigate in 2009, and was
given a clean bill of health. The district released a
statement from John Fremer, Caveon’s owner, saying, “The
company did not find evidence of cheating at any of the
schools.”
However, in subsequent interviews with USA Today and this
reporter, Mr. Fremer made it clear that the scope of his
inquiry was limited, and that the district had not requested
that he do more. Indeed, Caveon’s report, posted on USA
Today’s Web site, was full of sentences like, “Redacted was
interviewed at redacted.”
Teachers described security as “excellent” and “very
vigilant,” and investigators, for the most part, took their
comments at face value.
It did not take Ms. Rhee long to realize she had
miscalculated. Three days later, she told Bloomberg Radio
she was “100 percent supportive” of a broader inquiry.
Still, she would not talk to USA Today. Mr. Sevugan gave no
explanation, but pointed out that she had spoken with
several other news outlets.
The reporters did not give up. On April 26, Emily Lenzner, a
spokeswoman, wrote Mr. Gillum, “Michelle is willing to do an
interview, but we’d like to do this in person.” She asked if
they could hold their story, and arranged for a meeting on
May 3 at the StudentsFirst office in Washington.
On May 2, another Rhee spokeswoman e-mailed to say the
reporters were too interested in cheating and not enough in
StudentsFirst. She said they could submit a list of
questions.
There were 21 questions; Ms. Rhee did not answer 10 of the
11 about cheating.
Mr. Gillum, who recently took a job at The Associated Press,
said he was surprised by how unresponsive Ms. Rhee has been.
“She talks about how important data is, and our story is
data driven,” he said.
So that people could make their own judgments, Linda
Mathews, the project editor, posted the relevant public
documents on the USA Today Web site.
Shortly after the follow-up story appeared, the district’s
inspector general began what was supposed to be an inquiry,
but in July The Washington Post reported that just one
investigator had been assigned. “Basically it was one guy in
a room who made 10 phone calls,” Mr. Toppo said.
Officials with the federal Department of Education have
indicated that they are assisting with the investigation.
In Washington, two investigators spent five days at eight
schools. In Atlanta, the state deployed 60 investigators who
worked for 10 months at 56 schools. They produced a report
that named all 178 people found cheating, including 82 who
confessed. There was not a single case of “redacted and
redacted doctoring redacted grade answer sheets at
redacted.”
People in Atlanta could go to prison. Last week, a grand
jury issued subpoenas seeking the names of school employees
who had received bonuses for test scores. The Atlanta
Journal-Constitution reported that there were subpoenas for
“signed copies” of “any and all oaths of office” taken by
Beverly Hall, the former superintendent.
The three reporters still hope to interview Ms. Rhee.
“Absolutely,” said Mr. Toppo.
Which brings things full circle: Why won’t Ms. Rhee talk to
USA Today? "
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-- DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE -- A message has been posted to the
discussion "math-teach". Author: jk@israeliteknight.com Subject: Re:
You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn "If blacks were
universally failing on the SAT then this would hardly be worth
To:
M
jk@israeliteknight.com
Thursday, August 25, 2011 11:16 AM
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TO THIS MESSAGE --
A message has been posted to the discussion "math-teach".
Author: jk@israeliteknight.com
Subject: Re: You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn
"If blacks were universally failing on the SAT then this
would hardly be worth discussion, but they are not. And
whites, or even Asians, are not universally succeeding. The
world isn't that simple and if all you can understand is
simple then you have probably picked the wrong subject to
talk to."
Another point I need to make is that I don't believe you can
find a single post of mine which even begins to claim that
"whites, or even Asians, are [] universally succeeding", as
my main point is just the opposite of that. While Professor
Lynn puts Italy's IQ at 102, their test scores on all the
standardized international math tests puts their IQ at
closer to 93. Ditto for Spain, who scores even lower than
the good ole' U.S.A. on some of these key indicators. And
Asians who come to this country to enjoy our mode of
education do very poorly relative to their pure bred
brethren back home. So my real view of who IS succeeding
might be closer to Haim's than to yours.
You might expect that states with high percentages of
Italian or Spanish ancestry would score very low? And guess
what? You're RIGHT? Even when broken down by race, Whites in
those states score as much as 300 SAT points lower than
states with low Italian and Spanish ancestry.
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-- DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE -- A message has been posted to the
discussion "math-teach". Author: jk@israeliteknight.com Subject: Re:
You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn "If blacks were
universally failing on the SAT then this would hardly be worth
To:
M
jk@israeliteknight.com
Thursday, August 25, 2011 11:14 AM
-- DO NOT REPLY
TO THIS MESSAGE --
A message has been posted to the discussion "math-teach".
Author: jk@israeliteknight.com
Subject: Re: You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn
"If blacks were universally failing on the SAT then this
would hardly be worth discussion, but they are not. And
whites, or even Asians, are not universally succeeding. The
world isn't that simple and if all you can understand is
simple then you have probably picked the wrong subject to
talk to."
Another point I need to make is that I don't believe you can
find a single post of mine which even begins to claim that
"whites, or even Asians, are [] universally succeeding", as
my main point is just the opposite of that. While Professor
Lynn puts Italy's IQ at 102, their test scores on all the
standardized international math tests puts their IQ at
closer to 93. Ditto for Spain, who scores even lower than
the good ole' U.S.A. on some of these key indicators. And
Asians who come to this country to enjoy our mode of
education do very poorly relative to their pure bred
brethren back home. So my real view of who IS succeeding
might be closer to Haim's than to yours.
You might expect that states with high percentages of
Italian or Spanish ancestry would score very low? And guess
what? You're RIGHT? Even when broken down by race, Whites in
those states score as much as 300 SAT points lower than
states with low Italian and Spanish ancestry.
To view and reply to the message please see:
http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=7537018
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-- DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE -- A message has been posted to the
discussion "math-teach". Author: jk@israeliteknight.com Subject: Re:
You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn "If blacks were
universally failing on the SAT then this would hardly be worth
To:
M
jk@israeliteknight.com
Thursday, August 25, 2011 9:59 AM
-- DO NOT REPLY
TO THIS MESSAGE --
A message has been posted to the discussion "math-teach".
Author: jk@israeliteknight.com
Subject: Re: You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn
"If blacks were universally failing on the SAT then this
would hardly be worth discussion, but they are not. And
whites, or even Asians, are not universally succeeding. The
world isn't that simple and if all you can understand is
simple then you have probably picked the wrong subject to
talk to."
The other problem with your above statement is that it's
really confusing. Are you saying that if blacks are
"universally failing on the SAT" that we should NOT discuss
it, that we SHOULD discuss it, or that you just don't WANT
to discuss it even if they ARE universally failing?
IF they ARE "universally failing on the SAT", then I would
say that turning our entire education system upside down,
and quadrupling the cost of education per student, JUST to
teach them math, certainly IS worthy of discussion, and that
this is the very forum on which this discussion should be
held.
The most coddled Blacks on the planet are in Washington, Dc,
where HALF of the Blacks of high school age aren't even in
school. The other half who ARE in school (supposedly the
upper half) score lower on ALL these tests (NAEP, ACT, SAT,
and IAEP) than the average student in Mozambique where
education spending is less than 1% of GDP.
http://professionals.collegeboard.com/profdownload/District_of_Columbia_CBS_08.pdf
Yet these fewest, most coddled, most expensively educated
Black boys in DC score 392 in SAT math. The only people who
score lower are Black girls in DC who score 376. There are
no White boys or girls in any state who score that low, with
White boys in the SAME school district in DC scoring 633.
If this is not proof positive that Black boys in DC ARE
"universally failing on the SAT", then what possibly COULD
be?
------- End of Forwarded Message
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-- DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE -- A message has been posted to the
discussion "math-teach". Author: jk@israeliteknight.com Subject: Re:
You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn "If blacks were
universally failing on the SAT then this would hardly be worth
To:
M
jk@israeliteknight.com
Thursday, August 25, 2011 9:12 AM
-- DO NOT REPLY
TO THIS MESSAGE --
A message has been posted to the discussion "math-teach".
Author: jk@israeliteknight.com
Subject: Re: You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn
"If blacks were universally failing on the SAT then this
would hardly be worth discussion, but they are not. And
whites, or even Asians, are not universally succeeding. The
world isn't that simple and if all you can understand is
simple then you have probably picked the wrong subject to
talk to."
The other problem with your above statement is that it's
really confusing. Are you saying that if blacks are
"universally failing on the SAT" that we should NOT discuss
it, that we SHOULD discuss it, or that you just don't WANT
to discuss it even if they ARE universally failing?
IF they ARE "universally failing on the SAT", then I would
say that turning our entire education system upside down,
and quadrupling the cost of education per student, JUST to
teach them math, certainly IS worthy of discussion, and that
this is the very forum on which this discussion should be
held.
The most coddled Blacks on the planet are in Washington, Dc,
where HALF of the Blacks of high school age aren't even in
school. The other half who ARE in school (supposedly the
upper half) score lower on ALL these tests (NAEP, ACT, SAT,
and IAEP) than the average student in Mozambique where
education spending is less than 1% of GDP.
http://professionals.collegeboard.com/profdownload/District_of_Columbia_CBS_08.pdf
Yet these fewest, most coddled, most expensively educated
Black boys in DC score 392 in SAT math. The only people who
score lower are Black girls in DC who score 376. There are
no White boys or girls in any state who score that low, with
White boys in the SAME school district in DC scoring 633.
If this is not proof positive that Black boys in DC ARE
"universally failing on the SAT", then what possibly COULD
be?
To view and reply to the message please see:
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-- DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE -- A message has been posted to the
discussion "math-teach". Author: jk@israeliteknight.com Subject: Re:
You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn "If blacks were
universally failing on the SAT then this would hardly be worth
To:
M
jk@israeliteknight.com
Wednesday, August 24, 2011 10:31 PM
-- DO NOT REPLY
TO THIS MESSAGE --
A message has been posted to the discussion "math-teach".
Author: jk@israeliteknight.com
Subject: Re: You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn
"If blacks were universally failing on the SAT then this
would hardly be worth discussion, but they are not. And
whites, or even Asians, are not universally succeeding. The
world isn't that simple and if all you can understand is
simple then you have probably picked the wrong subject to
talk to."
It's hard to believe that you've actually seen (or
understood) the data to make such an assumption, or reach
such a conclusion.
Blacks across the world have consistently scored lower than
if they'd just guessed on ALL of these standardized--SAT,
GRE, TIMSS, and now in both Botswana and Ghana on TIMSS
(where they scored 300 POINTS lower than Hong Kong in TIMSS
math at the EIGHTH GRADE level).
You can whiiine racism all you want, but it is a
certifiable, verifiable fact which if you took just a few
minutes to research it, even you could know, or understand,
or finally realize the TRUTH of.
To view and reply to the message please see:
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-- DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE -- A message has been posted to the
discussion "math-teach". Author: jk@israeliteknight.com Subject: Re:
You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn Scoring of the GRE
Quantitative test is similar to that for the SAT Math test
To:
M
jk@israeliteknight.com
Wednesday, August 24, 2011 9:14 PM
-- DO NOT REPLY
TO THIS MESSAGE --
A message has been posted to the discussion "math-teach".
Author: jk@israeliteknight.com
Subject: Re: You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn
Scoring of the GRE Quantitative test is similar to that for
the SAT Math test which consists of one essay question which
can be scored only by subjective means, opening it up to
controversy about whether or not it's valid or accurate. The
most objective part of the test are the 225 five part
multiple choice questions which attempt to measure the
probability of a student succeeding in college or graduate
school. About 1/4th of these questions can be answered
strictly from rote memorization. For simplicity we include
the three quarters of the test which require some form of
reasoning or calculation which can be measured objectively.
Both tests have a base score of 200 which is assigned when a
student signs their name. Of the 600 points between 200 and
800, another 150 points can be gained by knowing the
subjects but not exhibiting any reasoning or critical
thinking skills, for a total score thus far of 350. If a
person were to just guess on the balance of the five part
multiple choice questions without evaluating the answers in
any way whatsoever, he would on average get 20% of them
correct just by chance, for another 90 points and a total
score of 440.
TIMSS is similar, except that a detailed analysis of it
shows that a person who exhibits no critical thinking skills
would score around 472.
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-- DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE -- A message has been posted to the
discussion "math-teach". Author: jk@israeliteknight.com Subject: Re:
You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn Scoring of the GRE
Quantitative test is similar to that for the SAT Math test
To:
M
jk@israeliteknight.com
Wednesday, August 24, 2011 9:10 PM
-- DO NOT REPLY
TO THIS MESSAGE --
A message has been posted to the discussion "math-teach".
Author: jk@israeliteknight.com
Subject: Re: You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn
Scoring of the GRE Quantitative test is similar to that for
the SAT Math test which consists of one essay question which
can be scored only by subjective means, opening it up to
controversy about whether or not it's valid or accurate. The
most objective part of the test are the 225 five part
multiple choice questions which attempt to measure the
probability of a student succeeding in college or graduate
school. About 1/4th of these questions can be answered
strictly from rote memorization. For simplicity we include
the three quarters of the test which require some form of
reasoning or calculation which can be measured objectively.
Both tests have a base score of 200 which is assigned when a
student signs their name. Of the 600 points between 200 and
800, another 150 points can be gained by knowing the
subjects but not exhibiting any reasoning or critical
thinking skills, for a total score thus far of 350. If a
person were to just guess on the balance of the five part
multiple choice questions without evaluating the answers in
any way whatsoever, he would on average get 20% of them
correct just by chance, for another 90 points and a total
score of 440.
TIMSS is similar, except that a detailed analysis of it
shows that a person who exhibits no critical thinking skills
would score around 472.
To view and reply to the message please see:
http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=7532199
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-- DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE -- A message has been posted to the
discussion "math-teach". Author: jk@israeliteknight.com Subject: Re:
You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn "If blacks were
universally failing on the SAT then this would hardly be worth
To:
M
jk@israeliteknight.com
Wednesday, August 24, 2011 9:08 PM
-- DO NOT REPLY
TO THIS MESSAGE --
A message has been posted to the discussion "math-teach".
Author: jk@israeliteknight.com
Subject: Re: You Can Count On This: Math Ability Is Inborn
"If blacks were universally failing on the SAT then this
would hardly be worth discussion, but they are not. And
whites, or even Asians, are not universally succeeding. The
world isn't that simple and if all you can understand is
simple then you have probably picked the wrong subject to
talk to."
It's hard to believe that you've actually seen (or
understood) the data to make such an assumption, or reach
such a conclusion.
Blacks across the world have consistently scored lower than
if they'd just guessed on ALL of these standardized--SAT,
GRE, TIMSS, and now in both Botswana and Ghana on TIMSS
(where they scored 300 POINTS lower than Hong Kong in TIMSS
math at the EIGHTH GRADE level).
You can whiiine racism all you want, but it is a
certifiable, verifiable fact which if you took just a few
minutes to research it, even you could know, or understand,
or finally realize the TRUTH of.
To view and reply to the message please see:
http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=7532184
To view the discussion, see:
http://mathforum.org/kb/forum.jspa?forumID=206
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